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Code of Conduct: Let's revamp it. 
The Code of Conflict is not achieving its implicit goal of fostering
civility and the spirit of 'be excellent to each other'.  Explicit
guidelines have demonstrated success in other projects and other areas
of the kernel.

Here is a Code of Conduct statement for the wider kernel.  It is based
on the Contributor Covenant as described at www.contributor-covenant.org

From this point forward, we should abide by these rules in order to help
make the kernel community a welcoming environment to participate in.

Signed-off-by: Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>
Signed-off-by: Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>
Signed-off-by: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Signed-off-by: Olof Johansson <olof@lxom.net>
Signed-off-by: Steven Rostedt (VMware) <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Signed-off-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
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81 Documentation/process/code-of-conduct.rst
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Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct

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@kirkins

kirkins Sep 30, 2018 •
edited

From the creator of the CoC:

"Some people are saying that the Contributor Covenant is a political document, and they’re right."

https://mobile.twitter.com/coralineada/status/1041465346656530432
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Our Pledge
==========

In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and
our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body

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@JMP2DIS

JMP2DIS Sep 27, 2018

'Harassment covers a wide range of behaviors of an offensive nature.' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment
Harassment is a interpretation of someones actions.

Wouldn't it just be easier to put 'just be respectful'? Instead of all this stuff that can be interpreted based on perceived beliefs.
size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and
expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality,

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@thunderbird89

thunderbird89 Sep 24, 2018

regardless of [...] level of experience, education

This is incredibly dangerous language in any project, especially one of the cornerstones of the technology world.

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@thunderbird89

thunderbird89 Sep 24, 2018

There was a person who thumbed the previous version of this comment down. I just wanted to let them know, if they see this, that I wasn't "running away" from it, I just realized that I commented a private opinion using a professional account.

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@Cyumus

Cyumus Sep 25, 2018 •
edited

I followed the rabbit hole and I ended on the root of the problem. The problem is that they don't believe in meritocracy, they're supporters of something called post-meritocracy. https://postmeritocracy.org/

We do not believe that our value as human beings is intrinsically tied to our value as knowledge workers. Our professions do not define us; we are more than the work we do.

In meritocracy, somebody that has worked and studied medicine has more value than somebody that doesn't when talking about medicine and practicing it. In post-meritocracy, when a plane is going down, they don't ask for a pilot, they don't care if someone has flown a plane before, they only care if the person who flies it doesn't like potatoes.

We believe that interpersonal skills are at least as important as technical skills.

I'm sorry. Did I say that they only care if the person who flies the plane doesn't like potatoes? I meant that they only care if the person who flies the plane doesn't like potatoes and is good at saying that potatoes are not a great meal while crashing the plane, or even blame the former dead pilot for being dead.

We can add the most value as professionals by drawing on the diversity of our identities, backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives. Homogeneity is an antipattern.

Of course, when flying a plane, it is important that you don't like potatoes, even if you haven't eaten any potato in your life, remember, experience is not necessary to know if you like potatoes or not. More important, you have to say it through your mic in order to make the crew aware of your condition of potato hater.

We can be successful while leading rich, full lives. Our success and value is not dependent on exerting all of our energy on contributing to software.

Yeah, you may not know how to fly a plane, less to land it, but hey, you're good at cooking, this will help you when landing the plane, I'm sure. If not, physics are racist.

We have the obligation to use our positions of privilege, however tenuous, to improve the lives of others.

Of course, if you are the pilot, you have to improve the lives of your crew, and the passengers. The thing is that the privilege here is to take the control of the plane, and somebody had to give you the privilege of flying the plane. Being a potato lover is not a privilege. Privileges are 'permissions' or 'powers' that somebody with more power, the authority, gives you. People often misuses (in purpose or because lack of knowledge) the terms of privileged and fortunate. Somebody that has born as a potato lover is fortunate, not privileged. Winning the lotto is fortunate, not privileged. Hiding behind laws based on your political agenda that gives people that hates potatoes more powers before the other people that loves potatoes is privileged. It makes the potato lovers different from the others just because they like potatoes, and potato haters blame the potato lovers that they can't like potatoes because of the potatocracy.

We must make room for people who are not like us to enter our field and succeed there. This means not only inviting them in, but making sure that they are supported and empowered.

Unless they like potatoes, if they like potatoes, we insult them on Twitter.

We have an ethical responsibility to refuse to work on software that will negatively impact the well-being of other people.

Like allowing and enforcing that top-devs doesn't contribute developing on a community because they like potatoes, making the code unstable and full of vulnerabilities, which in fact impacts negatively the well-being of other people. But they like potatoes, so it's justifiable.

We acknowledge the value of non-technical contributors as equal to the value of technical contributors.

Yeah, the more people is in the cabin talking about how the pilot has to sit on the chair while landing, how it has to say the radio codes and politically correct ask for a landing track, the better. I'm sure that the pilot is going to be okay with this, while trying to pay attention to how correctly use the controls of the plane to land safely. All the garbage instructions won't flood the radio channel and won't make the pilot lose valuable time in any way. I'm sure.

We understand that working in our field is a privilege, not a right. The negative impact of toxic people in the workplace or the larger community is not offset by their technical contributions.

No, it's not. Neither a privilege nor a right. Working in our field is a consequence of studying and becoming a professional, either by autodidact learning or by academia. You can work in the fields you know, and this 'privilege' of talking about your field is just an illusion of the trust of people that know that you work in that field. I didn't give the privilege to my doctor to cure me, but I trust all the knowledge (s)he has in that field in order to cure me.

And in a plane, I trust more in someone that has flown them before than in somebody that doesn't like potatoes and it's the first time that flies a plane. Call me crazy... I mean, maybe this is madness and it doesn't make any sense...

We are devoted to practicing compassion and not contempt. We refuse to belittle other people because of their choices of tools, techniques, or languages.

Because saying that objectively a programming language, a technique or a tool is better than another is like insulting who uses them. Of course, I forgot that I had to process this with that idiotic logic, or idiologic (So ideology comes from idiot and logic... it makes sense, though).

The field of software development embraces technical change, and is made better by also accepting social change.

Of course, we make the changes, changes like ruining the lives of people that love potatoes, insulting them on Twitter and harass them, while we cry because people harass us too for being imbeciles.

We strive to reflect our values in everything that we do. We recognize that values that are espoused but not practiced are not values at all.

Part of the ship, part of the crew. Indeed.

Well, this made my day. I'm laughing at this stupid ideology that bases the Covenant that so many enterprises are using.

tl;dr
So I have these conclusions:
· Meritocracy is not a thing nowadays, don't try to convince them using meritocratic arguments saying that only the good code matters, they don't care.
· They only care about pushing an idiotic political agenda based on feelings rather than facts.
· This is Neo-Kantianism, and all those stupid ideas that are based on race led to fascism and marxism, and it's bullshit.

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@HLT

HLT Sep 26, 2018

Pls don't let this neo-marxistic compelled speech gender feminism equality-of-outcome bullshit get even near the linux kernel.
This is not about victims or oppression. This is an attack on the kernel and its community. Once they get a foot in the door Linux will be done.
Punch-In-Da-Face-Driven-Development works. Forget about the rest.
personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

Our Standards
=============

Examples of behavior that contributes to creating a positive environment

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@ReinsBrain

ReinsBrain Sep 23, 2018

This seems antithetical to the often-needed brutal honesty that promotes the best code. I don't want to be saddled with inferior code because someone's feelings might have been hurt. The priority should be towards "excellence in code" over "excellence in politics".

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@bhaavanmerchant

bhaavanmerchant Sep 24, 2018

I don't see any empirical evidence to your "antithetical" claim. On the contrary, "excellence in code" often exists in environments which are "excellent in community".

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@ReinsBrain

ReinsBrain Sep 24, 2018

"Excellence in community" shouldn't need to be mandated with politically-correct pseudo-law - it happens naturally with good folks asserting good examples. We're already seeing it used against Tso in a lobby to have him removed from the project for comments completely apart from the project (your empirical evidence).

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@thunderbird89

thunderbird89 Sep 24, 2018

The thing about programming is that in the vast majority of cases, there is an objectively correct way (the fastest, most performant, most scalable algorithm, written in a way that adheres to the coding standards of the project) to do things, and there is everything else.
Even at my workplace, we aim for the former, and if we have a disagreement, we run the same test/benchmark suite on both solutions, and the right way is immediately clear. This should be doubly so in a project as important as the Linux Kernel, one of the most crucial underpinnings of modern technology: only the very best code should get in, and anything else must be rejected, no matter people's feelings.

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@thunderbird89

thunderbird89 Sep 24, 2018 •
edited

The thing about programming is that in the vast majority of cases, there is an objectively correct way (the fastest, most performant, most scalable algorithm, written in a way that adheres to the coding standards of the project) to do things, and there is everything else.
Even at my workplace, we aim for the former, and if we have a disagreement, we run the same test/benchmark suite on both solutions, and the right way is immediately clear. This should be doubly so in a project as important as the Linux Kernel, one of the most crucial underpinnings of modern technology: only the very best code should get in, and anything else must be rejected, no matter people's feelings.

You know, I am getting tired of this argument. So your workplace has no HR department? No rules of conduct? GTFO. Code is code, yes. Code may be not be capable of being offended, yes. Excellence in code is absolute, yes. But is your crappy code on stage talking about Linux, or writing documentation or emails, or representing your project? NO! People do that, not fucking code! These modest, commonsense guidelines are making sure unprofessional behavior doesn't detract from getting things done, and ensuring their leadership can take actions against damaging behavior as well. It has nothing to do with accepting bad code into the tree. This is so f-ing simple to understand, what is wrong with you people hahaha.

In an ideal world, I would agree with you 100%. I sincerely wish that everything I project turns out to be false because logic prevails. I really do.

But here's the thing: in the past few years, in more and more areas of life, we've seen feelings take the place of reasonable, measurable metrics, and turn decision-making into navigating a minefield until random people can force their will through by screaming "I'm offended by that!" at the top of their lungs, or by saying the magic words "I feel that [...]" - because once you say that, your argument can no longer be falsified and argued against (because how can you rebut an emotion?) and all further debate becomes baseless.
And to be honest, I fear that someone will submit a bad patch, and pull out the discrimination card when it gets rejected, forcing people to merge it lest they be removed for "discrimination". And once that happens, there's no stopping the avalanche, when everyone realizes you can remove obstacles by crying loud enough. And then the central pillar of the tech world comes crumbling down.

And yes, there are people behind the code. People ought to be respected. But people are not their creations, and if I say to my colleague "Your code is shit, get back to your workstation and fix it properly!" (or something to that effect - hyperboles apply), I make sure to point out to them that it is the code that is substandard, not them, and make sure they understand that no matter how much love and care they put into their works, they will never be equated to those works, and that criticism of those works is not criticism levelled at their person.

I really hope that I'm just being pessimistic and utterly, entirely wrong - but if I've had this idea, others must have had it too, and not all may be as restrained as I am.

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@ReinsBrain

ReinsBrain Sep 24, 2018

NO! People do that, not fucking code! These modest, commonsense guidelines are making sure unprofessional behavior doesn't detract from getting things done, and ensuring their leadership can take actions against damaging behavior as well. It has nothing to do with accepting bad code into the tree. This is so f-ing simple to understand, what is wrong with you people hahaha.

There - you admit it. These are rules to allow people with political(ly-correct) motivations to expunge others based on politics (of intersectionality) - NOT ON CODE.

a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

We're already seeing this applied against Tso. If you have ever voiced your opinion in past that disagrees with one of protected classes in the list, they will be coming for you - "the harrasser" - they will complain and wave this CoC until you are gone.

If you are a Christian who has ever objected to homosexuality, or a parent who has voiced concerns in the public sphere about fluid-gender and sex lessons in school to your seven-year-old, well then, you are marked for ouster. And if you don't score high enough on the intersectionality scale then no amount of apology or self-abasement will appease. We've seen it with James Damore at google - who stated the plainly obvious but was fired anyway for daring to expose an uncomfortable truth about one of the new protected classes.

This is nothing more than a weapon that can be used against people.

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@galileo-pkm

galileo-pkm Sep 25, 2018

It has happened before, the author behind the contributor-covenant.org:
opal/opal#941
These kind of policies have to be cut down before they take the hold, Linux community did fine for decades without this nonsense.

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@Yiannis128

Yiannis128 Jan 12, 2020

This seems antithetical to the often-needed brutal honesty that promotes the best code. I don't want to be saddled with inferior code because someone's feelings might have been hurt. The priority should be towards "excellence in code" over "excellence in politics".

Couldn't have said this better myself, this new COC has set a dangerous precedence over the Linux project.
include:

* Using welcoming and inclusive language
* Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
* Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
* Focusing on what is best for the community
* Showing empathy towards other community members


Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:

* The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or
advances
* Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
* Public or private harassment
* Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic
address, without explicit permission
* Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a
professional setting


Our Responsibilities
====================

Maintainers are responsible for clarifying the standards of acceptable behavior
and are expected to take appropriate and fair corrective action in response to
any instances of unacceptable behavior.

Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject
comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are
not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any
contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening,
offensive, or harmful.

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@penn5

penn5 Oct 12, 2018

42-50 are extremely dangerous, and, in my opinion, are more likely to lead to discrimination by Maintainers than Maintainers helping to prevent discrimination. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for having less discrimination (although I wasn't aware that there was any... shouting fits don't count) in the Kernel, but this seems a bit excessive.
Scope
=====

This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces
when an individual is representing the project or its community. Examples of
representing a project or community include using an official project e-mail
address, posting via an official social media account, or acting as an appointed
representative at an online or offline event. Representation of a project may be
further defined and clarified by project maintainers.

Enforcement
===========

Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may be
reported by contacting the Technical Advisory Board (TAB) at
<tab@lists.linux-foundation.org>. All complaints will be reviewed and

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@penn5

penn5 Oct 12, 2018

Surely, it makes sense to let the community decide what is offensive, not a central board? After all, Linux is supposed to be open...

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@knghtbrd

knghtbrd Nov 23, 2019

@penn5 It's a trap. "let the community decide" means some random person can get on Twitter and collect a brigade of incensed people to rage and condemn and demand … and the fact that none of them actually use Linux even … won't be relevant. If there's a genuine problem with the behavior of an individual that actually harms Linux, the community needs a method for excising that problem individual. I mean, given what we know about Hans Reiser, I'd personally have no desire to go anywhere near his code if he were still involved with it in some way. I have used reiserfs (3 and 4) in the past, but … I currently see no real reason to do so.

We've already had people condemned for their sex-lifestyle being considered "anti-woman" (isn't that "kink shaming"?), we've had Theodore T'So randomly accused of being a "rape apologist" without any evidence (isn't that public harassment?) The list goes on and on, and we've seen how the politics and rage-baiting of intersectionality has erased technical standards for competence in so many fields now…

There's also the question of a statute of limitations. Can some random person make an accusation without any supporting evidence of something that supposedly happened say 34 years ago, and are we obliged to ban that person who maintains an important subsystem based on the accusation? If someone submits a new driver, might someone perform opposition research to determine that eight years ago, at the age of 16, they replied to a "funny" tweet with an arguably racist "funny" reply? If they did, does that disqualify the person from contributing their driver?

It's not that this might happen, because if you've paid attention to the news for the past year and a half, those are literally ripped from the headlines examples.

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@GoLD-ReaVeR

GoLD-ReaVeR via email Nov 24, 2019

investigated and will result in a response that is deemed necessary and
appropriate to the circumstances. The TAB is obligated to maintain
confidentiality with regard to the reporter of an incident. Further details of
specific enforcement policies may be posted separately.

Maintainers who do not follow or enforce the Code of Conduct in good faith may
face temporary or permanent repercussions as determined by other members of the
project’s leadership.

Attribution
===========

This Code of Conduct is adapted from the Contributor Covenant, version 1.4,
available at https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.html
28 Documentation/process/code-of-conflict.rst
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2 Documentation/process/index.rst
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@@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ Below are the essential guides that every developer should read.
:maxdepth: 1

howto
code-of-conflict
code-of-conduct

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@saurabh2804

saurabh2804 Sep 19, 2018

This is a step towards a direction that will eventually destroy Linux. In this code of conduct you have created a stick with which to push agendas and ideologies. You will be gentle at first but eventually turn into a bully, because now you can. One can always find a reason to be offended. Someone, somewhere can be offended by almost anything.

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@john8329

john8329 Sep 19, 2018

This move just seems like what every other big company is doing right now, correct me if I'm wrong. See stack overflow or github, they have very similar things. If you take the argument to extremes, there is always a "reason" to make noise, but it's basically useless. Also "towards a direction that will eventually destroy Linux" is a way to be catastrophic without actually improving anything, which is just toxic reasoning. Probably it's not a good idea to be alarmist without very strong arguments.

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@jeremyckahn

jeremyckahn Sep 19, 2018

This is an open source project. If you don't agree with how it is managed, you are free to fork it and manage it as you wish.

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@mickrussom

mickrussom Sep 19, 2018

This is an open source project. If you don't agree with how it is managed, you are free to fork it and manage it as you wish.

This is a government hospital, get your treatment somewhere else if you don't agree how its managed.

Funny there was no "vote" on this change. Funny how anti-democratic stuff becomes when the minority want things a certain way most likely from corporate interests. (eg, vmware, fb, intel, etc). intel cant even properly make spectre/meltdown/etc fixes but they can make sure the Code Of Conduct allows those with low "level of experience" to have a say in how the kernel is written.

idiocracy is happening a lot faster than expected here.

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@jeremyckahn

jeremyckahn Sep 19, 2018

People are often marginalized because they are not in the majority group, so a vote isn't likely to help them in situations like this. This is where pragmatic leadership like the kind @torvalds is demonstrating here is necessary to precipitate needed changes.

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@mickrussom

mickrussom Sep 19, 2018

so nameless faceless accuser can whine to a board which can meet in secret and decide fates. and this is "open" source?

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@jeremyckahn

jeremyckahn Sep 19, 2018 •
edited

Yes. The code is 100% freely open and available, so this is open source. The handling of sensitive and/or private interpersonal matters is a separate issue.

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@regrev

regrev Sep 20, 2018

This is an open source project. If you don't agree with how it is managed, you are free to fork it and manage it as you wish.

Because surely the SJWs won't go after the forks and shame anyone having to do with them, right?

Then they can go after the GPL and modify it to ensure that 'no fascists are allowed to fork' or something of that nature. You know, for reasons of inclusivity.

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@kigawas

kigawas Sep 20, 2018

What does SJW mean? Shit, junk and waste?

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@gervasiocaj

gervasiocaj Sep 20, 2018

What does SJW mean? Shit, junk and waste?

Social justice warrior

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@kigawas

kigawas Sep 21, 2018

What does SJW mean? Shit, junk and waste?

Social justice warrior

Looks like they are totally equal 😄

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@ilikenwf

ilikenwf Sep 21, 2018 •
edited

This is a step towards a direction that will eventually destroy Linux. In this code of conduct you have created a stick with which to push agendas and ideologies. You will be gentle at first but eventually turn into a bully, because now you can. One can always find a reason to be offended. Someone, somewhere can be offended by almost anything.

Interesting how Mr. Tso is already being attacked. He's been against Intel and Pottering both doing their own dangerous/bad hijinks in the past. Is this big CoC just a wrapped up package from the corporate members of the foundation trying to further penetrate the kernel?

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@Chiiruno

Chiiruno Sep 21, 2018

Jeez, the puns just don't stop. 😆

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@survivor303

survivor303 Sep 24, 2018

This move just seems like what every other big company is doing right now, correct me if I'm wrong.

So what others doing bad, Linux need too? great.

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@adamczykm

adamczykm Sep 24, 2018

$#% is going on with people these days? Why everybody is so insecure, it's not pride, it's insecurity. Especially about sex-related stuff.
When making contribution to the Kernel of Linux you are not important as a man, woman, or whatever you think you are in-between, your code is the thing that matters. Not your balls, nor ego.
C'mon guys...

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@Cyumus

Cyumus Sep 25, 2018

People are often marginalized because they are not in the majority group, so a vote isn't likely to help them in situations like this. This is where pragmatic leadership like the kind @torvalds is demonstrating here is necessary to precipitate needed changes.

You're right, I'm in the group of people that doesn't like tortilla with onion and I'm often marginalized. My vote as a onion-free tortilla worshipper has to be more valuable than the others due to being in a minority. Also, I'm in the group of people called Cyumus, and I'm a minority, only me, you're being Cyumuphobic if you dare to say that my vote is the same as yours, regardless if I know about Linux kernel or not, it doesn't matter, the important thing here is that I'm Cyumus, and I'm a minority.

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@dannygoncalves

dannygoncalves Sep 25, 2018 •
edited

So you guys are basically saying that a "healthy" working environment implies bad code? do you know what code reviews are for? I can tell you that your code is bad and maybe guide you in the correct way of writing code without making you feel like you are a piece of crap.

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@Belgorodsky

Belgorodsky Sep 26, 2018 •
edited

What about democracy? F%ck this minority things

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@CandyAngel

CandyAngel Sep 26, 2018

@dannygoncalves

I can tell you that your code is bad and maybe guide you in the correct way of writing code without making you feel like you are a piece of crap.

You may think that but you can't.
Being told (or finding out) my code isn't perfect will always make me feel "like [I am] a piece of crap".

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@thunderbird89

thunderbird89 Sep 26, 2018

So you guys are basically saying that a "healthy" working environment implies bad code? do you know what code reviews are for? I can tell you that your code is bad and maybe guide you in the correct way of writing code without making you feel like you are a piece of crap.

Problem is, people tend to become invested in their works, and any criticism levelled at those works feels like an attack, even when it's not intended to be. This is just a part of the human condition, I guess, and it's an integral part of putting anything you make out into the public, whether it be a piece of code, a statue, or a poem. Someone is bound to say bad things about it (not necessarily you, though!) and you will feel bad about it, even though it wasn't directed at you.
development-process
submitting-patches
coding-style

336 comments on commit 8a104f8

@Chiiruno
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@imcsk8

Linux is used in a lot of places and people might even die so fuck their feelings!!

I agree, honestly, I really don't want bad code to be accepted because of this policy.
Hopefully this is just a paper tiger that the TAB won't really enforce, but I wouldn't expect that for long.

BTW i don't know where all this references to toxic relationships and toxic environments came from but they are just plain stupid.

The term 'toxic' itself does make sense, but the way it's used by SJWs seems to mean 'anything I don't like'.

@sholwe
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@sholwe sholwe commented on 8a104f8 Sep 30, 2018

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The good thing about owning decade-old hardware is that it probably works on a BSD derivative by now.

@ljhm
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@ljhm ljhm commented on 8a104f8 Oct 1, 2018

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so eventually politicians on the TAB make it true “there will be no Linux (if I heard 386BSD before)”

@ReinsBrain
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@gregkh @torvalds - I think we have seen enough opposition to this commit - perhaps it is time to go back to the drawing board and return with a much simplified version 2 of the CoC that focuses on professionality. Or just excise it entirely, try to forget this foray and move on.

@sholwe
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@sholwe sholwe commented on 8a104f8 Oct 1, 2018

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This has nothing to do with right of self-expression but respect, and respect means treating other people equally regardless of their level of knowledge about programming or the kernel source code. The point of this CoC is to bring developers more together, otherwise the "unfriendliness" inside the community will persist and you know that is not healthy for a community.

I don't pretend to know EFI, nor do I expect someone to respect me as though I did. This entire argument is asinine.

@galileo-pkm
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@galileo-pkm galileo-pkm commented on 8a104f8 Oct 1, 2018 via email

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@survivor303
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I am the only one who support a few points of the CoC? I guess so.

Perhaps so and how many lines of code you have contributed to the linux kernel?

This has nothing to do with right of self-expression but respect, and respect means treating other people equally regardless of their level of knowledge about programming or the kernel source code. The point of this CoC is to bring developers more together, otherwise the "unfriendliness" inside the community will persist and you know that is not healthy for a community.

Where you see unfriendliness (before this coc nonsense)? ok some can be that but like always, SO WHAT? some people can be arse on sunday nights. And for the community, it is healthy to release some steam every now and then and people ON THE COMMUNITY understand that.

If you don't agree with this CoC, well you are free to fork this kernel and develop your own with your ideologies. The rule of thumb is: adapt to it.

No that is the point, we dosnt accept this CoC overtaking Linux kernel, and we fight against it. Even Linus itself dosnt like it, even he was signed it (why he do something like that, perhaps we get answer for that later).

And about Linus "unfirendliness" behavior, he has to be that right to be what he want to be, he dosnt need to get pressure from anyone or anywhere. Kernel is his baby and we all others are just Linus little helpers. That is something what you proCoC and JWS crazy people need to know.

@ChrisCates
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@Megafan123, the intent of the Code of Conduct seems to be well meaning and inclusive...

However, as many have already stated, the policies are open to a lot of abuse...
We already have several accounts where such policies are used as leverage to create problems...

Conflicting ideologies that are not related to the code base itself should not be used against contributors... Only when a contributor is obstructed by another should maintainers seek conflict resolution.

@jeremyckahn
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I think it's worth pointing out that, after scrolling through this long, long list of angry comments, seemingly all of the dissenting voices of folks who are willing to show their real face appear to present as male. There is no risk in being a male in open source, even less if you're white, straight, and cisgendered. The CoC isn't necessarily for folks like that; it's for the folks who don't feel safe in showing who they are online for fear of the abusive comments like the ones here.

@digitalphoenix10
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@jeremyckahn
I am pretty sure you just went against one of the rules in the CoC by assuming someone's gender. Just because some individuals present themselves as a cisgendered male, doesn't mean that they actually are.

@galileo-pkm
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@galileo-pkm galileo-pkm commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018 via email

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@FlamesCN
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大神初衷是好的，自己身先士卒改造自己，但是造成了异议这也是事实，应该慢慢推进。反对者认为：管它黑猫白猫，能写代码的都是好猫，是不是很耳熟？但要知道猫论实验已经失败(人性无约束的纵容必将失败)，还是大神高瞻远瞩，放任人性无约束只会更加糟糕，自己糟糕的脾气也源于社区的纵容，一个皇帝能够意识到错误并改正自己和周围的人难能可贵，或许骂惯了的人觉得很不自在，或者老被骂突然没人骂也觉得不自在。反对者视角：能写好代码就应该在社区。鼠目寸光，忽视了2种假设：这些人冒着被踢的风险死不悔改才会被踢，大部分人会约束下自己(少了种族歧视的代码牛人linux会崩塌，地球不转？linux要一部登天？放慢脚步只会更好)。无约束的继续恶化升级为线下枪杀，他们是否会承担责任？还不是linus承担，要知道不写注释被同事枪杀的事情刚刚发生！

@rudiservo
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@rudiservo rudiservo commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018 •
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@jeremyckahn

I think it's worth pointing out that, after scrolling through this long, long list of angry comments, seemingly all of the dissenting voices of folks who are willing to show their real face appear to present as male. There is no risk in being a male in open source, even less if you're white, straight, and cisgendered. The CoC isn't necessarily for folks like that; it's for the folks who don't feel safe in showing who they are online for fear of the abusive comments like the ones here.

Code has no gender, nobody cares about the gender or your hair colour, people care about work, why would you go contribute to a project and then show who you are, because you are proud of it?
Also there is a double standard here, the person who wrote the CoC says it's within her right to insult developers whatever way she wants in twitter, because it's not in the project discussion?!
Aren't people suppose to be safe from harassment even if they are cis white males?

Just saying this fells like if you a white male shut up and should be ashamed to even have a job!

@rudiservo
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I am widely against the adoption of this CoC, it either should be rewriten and reviewed or the covenent leader @CoralineAda should be kicked out for having double standards and not following her own rules.

@jtolio
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@jtolio jtolio commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018

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After having only muted this thread in my email, the thread must have spilled over and another round of notifications of comments has reminded me of it.

This thread has been very useful to me and I'm sure to a number of other prominent hiring managers. Here, in one easy to find place, is a list of people who are publicly saying they cannot support agreeing to accountability for being decent and professional to other human beings. Cool! A lot of you are on my never-hire list now.

Found the Github unsubscribe button this time.

@galileo-pkm

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@regrev
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@regrev regrev commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018 •
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This thread has been very useful to me and I'm sure to a number of other prominent hiring managers. Here, in one easy to find place, is a list of people who are publicly saying they cannot support agreeing to accountability for being decent and professional to other human beings. Cool! A lot of you are on my never-hire list now.

No one here is disagreeing to be decent and professional to other people. Interesting that you'd shame people here having a discussion and then run off by muting the thread. Very professional.

@rudiservo
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@jtolds
well... decent and professional is grounds for meritocracy, so you are not in compliance with the covenant or the CoC.
The never-hire list is also against the CoC, that is grounds for not respecting other peoples views, profiling, etc, am I missing something here?
I don't have a never-hire list because I try to be professional and decent and i do like diversity, unlike you!
But hey Cool, if you ever need advice on leadership give me a call ;)

@ChrisCates
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@ChrisCates ChrisCates commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018 •
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Let's be clear here why this implementation is especially problematic...
It has less to do with the Code of Conduct itself, moreover the politics behind it.

  1. Linus has been well known to be opposed to these kinds of things.

  2. Disputes have been claimed such as in 2015. Even when Code Of Conflict was in effect.

  3. Shortly before The CoC is implemented, anti-white, white-guilt propaganda is spewed by the maintainer.

  4. CoC is implemented, Linus stops working on Linux temporarily.

  5. Linus shows clear disdain for what happened... And it's clear from his open letter there are some seriously concerning attributes from a political and reputation standpoint.

I don't think everyone has followed this correctly, or understand why this is concerning. These are double standards being implemented, and are being sidestepped for nepotism.

@digitalphoenix10
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@ChrisCates
Agreed. I’d be full support of a Code of Conduct if it weren’t for the political tendencies hidden in them.

The absolute main reason people are “overreacting” to this CoC is because it just appeared out of nowhere without a warning.

Linux is an open source project that millions of volunteers around the world devoted their free time to make the absolute best code possible for the kernel. Linux isn’t owned by some corporation that requires a CoC, this is all purely a volunteer project.

So yes, people do have the right to “overreact” to this CoC.

@jtolds
And you... I hope you’re trolling...
Probably not, but I like to think so. No one is that dense.

@DrPizza
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@DrPizza DrPizza commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018

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It has less to do with the Code of Conduct itself, moreover the politics behind it.

So to be clear:

Source code submissions should be treated at face value, without ever considering the behaviour of their submitters, their impact on collaborative development, and so on and so forth

But the Code of Conduct should not be treated at face value, and instead we should draw on the politics of the person who wrote it, the decision-making process that resulted in this commit, and the mystery surrounding Linus' temporary hiatus.

For people who profess to believe in the "meritocracy" and who want to keep politics "out" of Linux development, y'all sure are hypocrites.

@galileo-pkm
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@galileo-pkm galileo-pkm commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018 via email

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@regrev
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@regrev regrev commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018

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Another major problem with the CoC is the type of people who would oversee its implementation - meddling busybodies who enjoy controlling the interactions between people who they don't know.

Probably best to keep these people away from any productive fields of endeavor.

@ChrisCates
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@ChrisCates ChrisCates commented on 8a104f8 Oct 2, 2018 •
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@DrPizza... Complete obfuscation of the core central reason for this argument...
Also, it's a markdown file that directly relates to policies (politics) revolving around the code... And I've never said I was opposed to policies.

https://github.com/ContributorCovenant/contributor_covenant/issues/602

http://lists.linux.org.au/pipermail/linux-aus/2018-September/023423.html

The two links above clearly indicate some serious problems.

@iderik
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@iderik iderik commented on 8a104f8 Oct 3, 2018 •
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The CoC maintainer has clearly stated its political multiple times. She is also extremely racist against white males.
Why was this accepted so easily? Is there something behind this that we dont know about?

Seriously, what the hell is this? https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/1029162264979546112
Are those death threats? And that was as early as August...

@jeremyckahn

I think it's worth pointing out that, after scrolling through this long, long list of angry comments, seemingly all of the dissenting voices of folks who are willing to show their real face appear to present as male. There is no risk in being a male in open source, even less if you're white, straight, and cisgendered. The CoC isn't necessarily for folks like that; it's for the folks who don't feel safe in showing who they are online for fear of the abusive comments like the ones here.

So the majority who are against the CoC are male isnt because the majority of the industry is male? You SJWs are so into skin colors and genders that you cant think clearly anymore...

@ChrisCates
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@ChrisCates ChrisCates commented on 8a104f8 Oct 3, 2018 •
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@iderik, the same points keep being rehashed, but do not get addressed due to nepotism...

But again, we refuse to address these problems... And instead, do not rationalize how serious these problems are and allow them to grow into bigger ones... I've been consistent this entire thread about why I've been vocal about this problem, considering the timeline of events and the history of the community leaders.

If these policies are used only with selective bias and serve no purpose for actual accountability... I can’t rationalize the existence or the endorsement of them...

@thedrint
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@thedrint thedrint commented on 8a104f8 Oct 4, 2018 •
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This thread has been very useful to me and I'm sure to a number of other prominent hiring managers. Here, in one easy to find place, is a list of people who are publicly saying they cannot support agreeing to accountability for being decent and professional to other human beings. Cool! A lot of you are on my never-hire list now.

At first, I thought it was joke. But after some time i understood, that it was real words from real man, boss of real company.
It makes me sad. I've thought that people like this (SJW scum and their supporters) lives only at twitter.

@DarkWav
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@DarkWav DarkWav commented on 8a104f8 Oct 4, 2018 •
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I think this is overrated. It might be bad, and so on, but it is definetly NOT going to destory linux, hell....
Politics are not something to put in a software code of conduct, anyway.
The destruction of Linux is Impossible as of now simply because companies like Google who support it exist. I think many people haven't realised this but the death of linux cannot come before the death of entire Google, because it would mean the death of Android and ChromeOS, and Google simply won't let that happen. And im not a fan of google, actually close to downright hating them (by privacy), but they will not just watch in this worst-case-scenario.
There are also developers who actually signed the coc, another reason it won't die....
Also FreeBSD has a 99% simmilar CoC, so it is not different with linux alternatives.....
Keep in mind, its just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

@ChrisCates
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@ChrisCates ChrisCates commented on 8a104f8 Oct 4, 2018 •
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@DarkWav even if it were to die (which it wont). It would be revived as an OSS project by them anyway.

The point is that the document does not serve its purpose... Was created by a racist heterphobe that cannot acknowledge they are racist towards white men... And, has no intention of following the rules specified by their own document.

This then leads to latter part of the document which verbosely specifies that maintainers can do whatever they please... Which was always the case to begin with...

I suppose considering the history of this document... Thousands of people clearly outlining the problems with it... Yet, people still endorsing its existence several years later was supposed to be the logical fallacy of me even being vocal about this problem...

So in hindsight, me and everyone else are basically just over reacting because the document changes nothing... We've already observed with the Opal repository... That with or without this document, any sort of piece of text or opinion conveyed by an individual can be used against them, even if the interpretations of the information are misrepresented or twisted for a specific agenda...

This is a classic case of "The Wisdom or Madness of Crowds": https://ncase.me/crowds/

@jnturton
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Something that I think is a good thing is that a snapshot of the Contributor Covenant was taken and the original need not be tracked, allowing Linux to distance itself from the author. Because there are things outside of the CoC that author has already written, and more that I speculate they will yet write, which are just vitriol.

@MiakoMoto
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go_back

@Janrupf
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Undo it!

@saurabh2804
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This really assuages a lot of my concerns regarding this CoC. Linus seems to understands lots of our concern. THis makes me hopeful.