Rethink basic template #8662

Closed
MickL opened this Issue Jul 27, 2013 · 7 comments

Projects

None yet

5 participants

@MickL

Are you serious guys? No more gradients and no more shadows?

Should this be a button?
btn

No it isnt!
And its a terrible decision to follow design regressions like Windows 8 and iOS7. Of course its a good thing to evolve design and user interfaces... but totally removing any gradients and shadows? How dare you!

Sorry I was SO excited about bootstrap 2, and then THIS ... I am so disappointed...

@driespieters

It's not about following design trends. In my view Bootstrap is a framework on which you build your styles on top. This way people don't have to remove already applied styles by Bootstrap. (including all the IE styles, like filter:none)

@darthdeus

@driepie I don't think that's a valid argument, since this new design is very different from the browser default, but the bootstrap 2 one is close enough to not change the style of it at all if you want something that most people will recognize.

@cvrebert
Bootstrap member

Don't worry. There are plans to bring back the gradients, etc. as an optional theme. As for why they're no longer the default, @driepie's explanation is correct.

@mdo mdo closed this Jul 27, 2013
@mdo
Bootstrap member

Are you serious guys? No more gradients and no more shadows?

Yup!

Should this be a button?

Yup!

No it isnt!

Yes it is!

And its a terrible decision to follow design regressions like Windows 8 and iOS7.

We're not exactly following Windows 8 or iOS 7—if you step back and think through what it means to be a bootstrapping framework, you'll understand why we've simplified things. Easier overrides and fewer lines of code are huge advantages. This isn't about trends.

Of course its a good thing to evolve design and user interfaces... but totally removing any gradients and shadows? How dare you!

I know, right!? Ugh.

Sorry I was SO excited about bootstrap 2, and then THIS ... I am so disappointed...

Cool—see you around then!

<3

@mdo
Bootstrap member

@cvrebert let me know I probably came off as an ass there, so let me apologize for that and explain my (unclear) sarcastic comments. I'll try to avoid doing this in the future so they're no confusion.

Yes, we really are serious—the gradients are gone. Some shadows still exist—e.g., active button states—but largely the embellishments have been removed. The intention is to enable easier overrides and customization for folks who treat Bootstrap as a first-step, not an end solution.

None of these changes in v3 are terrible, and that subjective feedback doesn't help us much unfortunately, so we can't really act on it to help you. It's opinion, not constructive criticism. If there's something we can do better, tell us directly what and how. That's good and useful feedback.

Being told "How dare you!" suffers the same problem—it's not useful or constructive to us improving anything in Bootstrap. And seeing how this is a project we created, one that we have poured thousands of hours into over the last two years, I dare say we have the right to do what we like with it. That's not intended to show arrogance—it's simply a project we maintain and iterate on with the community's help, and I think our strategy of design/development has worked out quite well for us and everyone else using Bootstrap.

Lastly, I truly am saddened that you're not excited (I am!), but once again, being told something like that doesn't help us at all. Similar to some folks' approach to product design, we're not in the business of trying to appease one single user's emotional feedback. It simply doesn't scale and isn't actionable at all. It sucks, but if that's your attitude, you can bet any hope of feedback you're trying to share will be ignored.

Again, apologies for any offense given and hope that helps elaborate on my previous comment.

<3

@MickL
@cvrebert
Bootstrap member

@MickL See #8706.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment