New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Milestones for translator's section / chunk (add \ts-s\* and \ts-e\*) #7

Closed
klassenjm opened this Issue Jul 5, 2016 · 8 comments

Comments

Projects
None yet
3 participants
@klassenjm
Contributor

klassenjm commented Jul 5, 2016

Updated: April 2018

Updated Proposal

  • Following the syntax for milestones (USFM 3.0 #33), add milestones \ts-s and \ts-e for identifying a section (chunk) of text suitable for translating at one time.

A companion USX 3.0 proposal exists at: ubsicap/usx#5

Examples

Jude 5-8, ULB - using standalone milestones

\ts\*
\p
\v 5 Now I wish to remind you, although you know everything, that the Lord once saved a 
people out of the land of Egypt, but that afterward he destroyed those who did not believe.
\v 6 And angels who did not keep to their own principality, but left their proper dwelling 
place—God has kept them in everlasting chains in darkness for the judgment of the 
great day.
\ts\*
\v 7 It is just like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, which in a similar way 
gave themselves over to fornication and pursued unnatural desires. They were given as 
examples of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
\v 8 Yet in the same way these also pollute their bodies in their dreams, and they reject 
authority, and they say evil things about the glorious ones.

Jude 5-8, ULB - using milestone pairs

\ts-s|sid="ts_JUD_5-6"\*
\p
\v 5 Now I wish to remind you, although you know everything, that the Lord once saved a 
people out of the land of Egypt, but that afterward he destroyed those who did not believe.
\v 6 And angels who did not keep to their own principality, but left their proper dwelling 
place—God has kept them in everlasting chains in darkness for the judgment of the 
great day.
\ts-e|eid="ts_JUD_5-6"\*
\ts-s|sid="ts_JUD_7-8"\*
\v 7 It is just like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, which in a similar way 
gave themselves over to fornication and pursued unnatural desires. They were given as 
examples of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
\v 8 Yet in the same way these also pollute their bodies in their dreams, and they reject 
authority, and they say evil things about the glorious ones.
\ts-e|eid="ts_JUD_7-8"\*

OUTDATED Proposal

  • Add a section marker \ts to identify a chunk of text suitable for translating at one time.
  • The \ts marker must be on its own line.

A companion USX 3.0 proposal exists at: ubsicap/usx#5

Details

  • \ts is strictly a non-publishable aid to translators. It does not indicate a true paragraph break nor a section or section heading in the published form of a text. Since it is implemented in USFM as a paragraph type, it will likely form a paragraph boundary in the text in a USFM editor like Paratext.

Examples

Jude 5-8, ULB

\ts
\p
\v 5 Now I wish to remind you, although you know everything, that the Lord once saved a 
people out of the land of Egypt, but that afterward he destroyed those who did not believe.

\v 6 And angels who did not keep to their own principality, but left their proper dwelling 
place—God has kept them in everlasting chains in darkness for the judgment of the 
great day.

\ts
\v 7 It is just like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, which in a similar way 
gave themselves over to fornication and pursued unnatural desires. They were given as 
examples of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

\v 8 Yet in the same way these also pollute their bodies in their dreams, and they reject 
authority, and they say evil things about the glorious ones.
@jag3773

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jag3773

jag3773 Nov 15, 2016

Wow, I didn't realize this existed when I wrote #22 (comment) ! Clearly, having \ts would be ideal as it is much more precise.

jag3773 commented Nov 15, 2016

Wow, I didn't realize this existed when I wrote #22 (comment) ! Clearly, having \ts would be ideal as it is much more precise.

@jag3773

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jag3773

jag3773 Oct 9, 2017

@klassenjm We are planning to start using \ts in our translations soon, unless you would advise us against it.

jag3773 commented Oct 9, 2017

@klassenjm We are planning to start using \ts in our translations soon, unless you would advise us against it.

@klassenjm klassenjm modified the milestones: 3.0.rc2, 3.0.0 Oct 27, 2017

klassenjm added a commit that referenced this issue Apr 2, 2018

klassenjm added a commit that referenced this issue Apr 2, 2018

@klassenjm klassenjm closed this Apr 2, 2018

klassenjm added a commit that referenced this issue Apr 3, 2018

@klassenjm

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@klassenjm

klassenjm Apr 3, 2018

Contributor

@jag3773 Jeese -- Would it be true that translator chunks would be less than a full paragraph? If so, the implementation of this as a paragraph type will be awkward, especially in USX (ubsicap/usx#5), since it would need to either contain the verse text, or interrupt it, requiring a paragraph container to wrap the remaining text.

If chunks would be less than a paragraph, then this would seem to be better implemented as a milestone. (I'd rather not go there if chunks do not really interrupt paragraphs.).

Contributor

klassenjm commented Apr 3, 2018

@jag3773 Jeese -- Would it be true that translator chunks would be less than a full paragraph? If so, the implementation of this as a paragraph type will be awkward, especially in USX (ubsicap/usx#5), since it would need to either contain the verse text, or interrupt it, requiring a paragraph container to wrap the remaining text.

If chunks would be less than a paragraph, then this would seem to be better implemented as a milestone. (I'd rather not go there if chunks do not really interrupt paragraphs.).

@klassenjm klassenjm reopened this Apr 3, 2018

@lrsallee

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@lrsallee

lrsallee Apr 4, 2018

Would this replace \s5 that we currently use as chunk breaks?

lrsallee commented Apr 4, 2018

Would this replace \s5 that we currently use as chunk breaks?

@klassenjm

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@klassenjm

klassenjm Apr 4, 2018

Contributor

@lrsallee If the \s5 is to mark small units to divide translation work, then yes, this is the intent of \ts

If you are currently using \s5, then it sounds like make a requirement that these chunk markers occur at paragraph boundaries would be OK (and preferred).

Contributor

klassenjm commented Apr 4, 2018

@lrsallee If the \s5 is to mark small units to divide translation work, then yes, this is the intent of \ts

If you are currently using \s5, then it sounds like make a requirement that these chunk markers occur at paragraph boundaries would be OK (and preferred).

@klassenjm klassenjm closed this Apr 4, 2018

klassenjm added a commit that referenced this issue Apr 4, 2018

klassenjm added a commit that referenced this issue Apr 4, 2018

@jag3773

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jag3773

jag3773 Apr 4, 2018

The divisions that we currently have do interrupt paragraphs.

jag3773 commented Apr 4, 2018

The divisions that we currently have do interrupt paragraphs.

@klassenjm klassenjm reopened this Apr 4, 2018

@klassenjm

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@klassenjm

klassenjm Apr 4, 2018

Contributor

@jag3773 Jesse, I really don't want to propose backtracking on this. I believe you have already implemented in some measure. However, it seems that this would be much more naturally implemented as a standalone milestone, like:

\ts\*
\p
\v 5 Now I wish to remind you, although you know everything, that the Lord once saved a 
people out of the land of Egypt, but that afterward he destroyed those who did not believe.
\v 6 And angels who did not keep to their own principality, but left their proper dwelling 
place—God has kept them in everlasting chains in darkness for the judgment of the 
great day.
\ts\*
\v 7 It is just like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, which in a similar way 
gave themselves over to fornication and pursued unnatural desires. They were given as 
examples of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
\v 8 Yet in the same way these also pollute their bodies in their dreams, and they reject 
authority, and they say evil things about the glorious ones.

This is especially true for a USX view of the same data. It would involve introducing a new level of nested structure.

How problematic would a shift be right now for your team? (In terms of markup syntax only, the change is quite small.)

Contributor

klassenjm commented Apr 4, 2018

@jag3773 Jesse, I really don't want to propose backtracking on this. I believe you have already implemented in some measure. However, it seems that this would be much more naturally implemented as a standalone milestone, like:

\ts\*
\p
\v 5 Now I wish to remind you, although you know everything, that the Lord once saved a 
people out of the land of Egypt, but that afterward he destroyed those who did not believe.
\v 6 And angels who did not keep to their own principality, but left their proper dwelling 
place—God has kept them in everlasting chains in darkness for the judgment of the 
great day.
\ts\*
\v 7 It is just like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, which in a similar way 
gave themselves over to fornication and pursued unnatural desires. They were given as 
examples of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
\v 8 Yet in the same way these also pollute their bodies in their dreams, and they reject 
authority, and they say evil things about the glorious ones.

This is especially true for a USX view of the same data. It would involve introducing a new level of nested structure.

How problematic would a shift be right now for your team? (In terms of markup syntax only, the change is quite small.)

@jag3773

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jag3773

jag3773 Apr 5, 2018

We can make that change @klassenjm . We have not yet done a wholesale update of the markers we are currently using, so changing to the milestone structure sounds good if that makes more sense with the rest of the spec.

jag3773 commented Apr 5, 2018

We can make that change @klassenjm . We have not yet done a wholesale update of the markers we are currently using, so changing to the milestone structure sounds good if that makes more sense with the rest of the spec.

@klassenjm klassenjm changed the title from Translator's chunk marker (add \ts) to Milestones for translator's section / chunk (add \ts-s\* and \ts-e\*) Apr 5, 2018

@klassenjm klassenjm closed this Apr 6, 2018

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment