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Let the world know that Sundown is deprecated

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Contributing to Sundown
=======================

Do not.

Unfortunately, Sundown is currently frozen as we're working with the Reddit, StackOverflow and Meteor developers to design a formal Markdown standard and parser that will supersede Sundown in all these websites (and in GitHub, of course). Our goal is to deprecate Sundown altogether before the end of the year.

The new parser will be smaller, faster, safer and most importantly, more consistent.

Please stay tuned.

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@txdv

txdv May 12, 2013

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new line

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@rudyryk

rudyryk Apr 9, 2014

Any news? :)

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@mildsunrise

mildsunrise Apr 10, 2014

@rudyryk Well, we started a fork called Hoedown, it's pretty mature now, we'll soon release version 3! :D

80 comments on commit 37728fb

@FSX

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@FSX FSX replied Nov 29, 2012

The world is ending!
@Tuckie

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@Tuckie Tuckie replied Nov 29, 2012

Uniformity?! With Markdown?! Across websites?!
I will assume hell is freezing over, but in the meantime, somewhere to follow the status of this collaboration would be fantastic.
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@naggie naggie replied Dec 11, 2012

I hope the new markdown parser will be github flavored. Is there a public project anywhere?
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@lepture lepture replied Dec 11, 2012

@FSX 10 days left.
@funchal

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@funchal funchal replied Dec 28, 2012

@vmg Looks like a good initiative. It's super hard to get around with so many so-called flavors of the Markdown format. I think the source of the problem for end users is that people call their slight modifications "flavors" of something pre-existing, instead of naming it with a different name clearly indicating that it implements a different (though similar) wiki syntax.

I also hope you guys can find time to write down a quick reference or some documentation of the sundown/redcarpet flavor of Markdown. Have a look at the one in the kramdown site, it's really good.
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@txdv txdv replied Dec 30, 2012

Damn it, I should have read this earlier.
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@txdv txdv replied Dec 30, 2012

@vmg is there a collaborative site available? A repo or something? To follow the development?
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@vmg vmg replied Dec 30, 2012

Nope. I'm on holidays! Happy holidays everybody! Now go party!
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@txdv txdv replied Dec 30, 2012

No, i go code.
@mildsunrise

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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Dec 31, 2012

🎄 @vmg

Our goal is to deprecate Sundown altogether before the end of the year.

Well, according to the root NTP server, you now have exactly* 12 hours left.
Please, publish! :)

$ date -u
Mon Dec 31 12:00:00 UTC 2012

* Yes, I know that's actually less than 12 hours.
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@naggie naggie replied Dec 31, 2012

lol!
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@txdv txdv replied Jan 1, 2013

time is up, where is the code
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jan 1, 2013

@txdv okay, let's calm down everybo...
GIVE US THE CODE!! ;)
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jan 1, 2013

I've been checking out this page every 5 minutes,
because I was so lazy to program a robot to check it for me...
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@ibigbug ibigbug replied Jan 1, 2013

However why so many people focus on this project?
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jan 1, 2013

Because having a solid, flexible, secure Markdown parser is a must-to
on a decent web application. Also, when you know something good is
gonna appear, you become excited. And impatient.
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@ibigbug ibigbug replied Jan 2, 2013

So sad
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jan 2, 2013

@ibigbug Why? Markdown is a nice
and accepted standard. Now, the parser
itself is also being standarized.
How is this bad?
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jan 11, 2013

OK, we all know that @vmg's work in LibGit2 is awesome,
but we would really love a response in respect to that new 💎.

My Hubot is pretty tired of checking this repo one time and another,
without seeing a single change.
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@vmg vmg replied Jan 11, 2013

I'm sorry guys, I'm not webscale. The new parser will come on its own schedule, when I find time to dedicate to it. It used to be a priority, but now I've got things on my plate that are more important. Keep using Sundown meanwhile. It's still fast and secure.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jan 11, 2013

Oh, thanks for the quick reply.
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@txdv txdv replied Feb 21, 2013

any news on the new parser?
@zdne

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@zdne zdne replied Mar 18, 2013

Is this happening at all @vmg ? Seems like everybody still relies on sundown and its bindings.
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@nishantmodak nishantmodak replied Mar 30, 2013

Can we all help in some way towards this newer standard? Hope to see it soon!
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Jun 30, 2013

@vmg, is the new parser (we don't even know his name) coming at all?
If it isn't, you would make us a huge favour by unfreezing/undeprecating
Sundown and let life continue as normal. :)
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@zdne zdne replied Jun 30, 2013

@vmg @jmendeth I second this.
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@faelys faelys replied Jul 27, 2013

I'm not sure it would be of any use to anyone, but just in case, the original library from which Sundown has been forked is still maintained, and has recently been copied to github at https://github.com/faelys/libsoldout
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@FSX FSX replied Jul 27, 2013

Cool. :)
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@Honghe Honghe replied Aug 5, 2013

Waiting.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Aug 5, 2013

@devinus

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@devinus devinus replied Sep 18, 2013

Can we un-deprecate Sundown somewhere?
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 18, 2013

@delvinus Yeah, that's what I was suggesting.
Anybody wants to continue developing Sundown?
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 18, 2013

@jmendeth I will fork Sundown later today and begin merging PRs that are worthy.

Fork name suggestions would be appreciated.
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@FSX FSX replied Sep 18, 2013

Sunrise.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 18, 2013

@FSX 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 I CANNOT FIND A BETTER NAME!
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 18, 2013

@FSX Taken: https://github.com/gampleman/Sunrise

I was thinking either Sunup, Sunset, Moonrise, or Moonset.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 18, 2013

But... but... heart broken
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@FSX FSX replied Sep 18, 2013

Phoenix.
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@nathany nathany replied Sep 18, 2013

rising from the ashes of sundown? awesome.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 18, 2013

To all interested: https://github.com/devinus/hoedown

I have applied PRs that match current Redcarpet functionality but have been languishing in the queue for Sundown and added the official Markdown test suite.

The next steps are:

  1. Backport bug fixes and features that Redcarpet has been adding: https://github.com/vmg/redcarpet/tree/master/ext/redcarpet
  2. Rename all instances of Sundown to Hoedown and the sd_* functions to either hd_* or hoedown_* (this will break API compatibility, which is a good thing)
  3. Reset the version number
  4. Add Travis CI automated testing
  5. Announce the release
  6. Try to convince Redcarpet to use Hoedown so we can both benefit from improvements once again
  7. Yell from the rooftops that Markdown isn't dead until there's a better alternative!
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

Hoedown looking great! I'm forking it.

  • Rename all instances of Sundown to Hoedown and the sd_* functions to either hd_* or hoedown_* (this will break API compatibility, which is a good thing)
  • Reset the version number

I'll do that. Then I'll update Robotskirt to use hd_.
I'm thinking we could spam broadcast the existence of Hoedown throughout the repo's issues... but... ;)

Backport bug fixes and features that Redcarpet has been adding

So Redcarpet has been keeping his own version of Sundown?

PS. the first thing I'd do is to enable Issues on hoedown.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 19, 2013

@jmendeth Issues have been enabled.

I'd like to hold off renaming API functions until I finish backporting all the improvements made in Redcarpet, Houdini, and Rinku. It makes generating and applying edited patches possible.
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@nathany nathany replied Sep 19, 2013

@devinus Will there be a hoedown organization on GitHub?
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

I'd like to hold off renaming API functions until I finish backporting all the improvements made in Redcarpet, Houdini, and Rinku. It makes generating and applying edited patches possible.

That indeed makes sense.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 19, 2013

@nathany I've created a hoedown org which will host hoedown at some point before we announce. Then we can get binding authors that have switched to hoedown to keep a fork of their bindings on the hoedown org.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

@delvinus, can you let me do the backporting as well? :)
I've partly done it with Robotskirt, it'll be easy to do it now.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 19, 2013

@jmendeth I have no qualms, but I spent a considerable amount of time last night making a mental map of the things we need to backport. Also, I am trying to keep the original authors attached to the improvements.

We need 2 changes from Houdini, 1 from Rinku, and quite a few improvements from Redcarpet. I may also be interested in a few more PRs from Sundown still. I can go into it more later today, or you can try your hand at it.

My process is creating .diff's from Github, editing them for Hoedown, patch -p1, git commit --author, and, of course, testing.
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@FSX FSX replied Sep 19, 2013

Houdini has different buffers now (buffer.h and buffer.c). They seem to be derived from libgit's buffers. You'll have to replace Sundown's buffers too.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 19, 2013

@FSX I don't think replacing buffer.h and buffer.c would be appropriate for two reasons:

  1. Those files are licensed under libgit2's license, GPLv2.
  2. We have no idea how they would work for Hoedown. The current buffers are very well tested in many different scenarios already.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

Houdini has different buffers now (buffer.h and buffer.c). They seem to be derived from libgit's buffers. You'll have to replace Sundown's buffers too.

You stole my words.

So, if buffer.h and buffer.c are part of houdini, doesn't that mean Houdini is GPL-licensed?
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

@jmendeth I have no qualms, but I spent a considerable amount of time last night making a mental map of the things we need to backport. Also, I am trying to keep the original authors attached to the improvements.

Then I guess you're better at this task. ;)
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@FSX FSX replied Sep 19, 2013

Then you'd have to modify Houdini. The buffer API changed a bit.

I just wanted to notify you. :)
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

I'd keep a file listing the project and the commit we backported changes from.
That when any of these projects makes changes we can easily apply them.
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@zdne zdne replied Sep 19, 2013

I am running my fork of sundown that adds additional hooks in order to build a Markdown Abstract Syntax Tree (AST). It also includes some preliminary support for source maps.

So my "features request" for a new Markdown parser is:

  1. Parse Markdown into an AST (not just render it)
  2. Provide source maps

If this would be on the roadmap of the "new parser" I would definitely love to contribute.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

@zdne I think that a good practise, but I don't think it fits in Sundown's
architecture. And since Hoedown is a continuation of Sundown...

However, you could still implement an AST renderer.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2013

Nothing is definitive, however--what do you think about it, @devinus?
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@zdne zdne replied Sep 19, 2013

@jmendeth That is exactly what I have done. I am using the original rendering hooks plus some additional ones I have had to add to build a Markdown AST.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 20, 2013

@jmendeth The backporting is complete. These are the bugs I actually discovered in Redcarpet during the process: https://gist.github.com/devinus/30b6df78d96eb9f06d33

Next step is a code reorganization.

This is what I'm going to do:

  1. Consolidate all the source files under src/
  2. markdown.{c,h} => hoedown.{c,h}, buffer.h => hoedown_buffer.h
  3. Prepend all functions with hoedown_*, e.g. houdini_escape_href becomes hoedown_escape_href, bufgrow becomes hoedown_bufgrow
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 20, 2013

Whoa! That's a lot of changes. Great work!
Here's my thoughts:

  • markdown.{c,h} should be left as is.
    This is because its name expresses what part of Sundown/Hoedown is (in that case, the Markdown parser).
    Hoedown is comprised of all the sources, not just the Markdown parsing part.
  • Same for buffer.{c,h}. We want to keep things simple, so if the user wants to group Hoedown sources
    he can just put them in a hoedown folder, and then #include "hoedown/markdown.h" (to use the Markdown
    parser) or #include "hoedown/escape.h" (to use just the houdini part).
  • About using hoedown_ everywhere (even on houdini) I agree on that.
  • I also agree on having all the HTML things in src as well.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 20, 2013

@devinus Are all existing licenses (that is, the preambles and license at README)
compatible with the one in LICENSE? I'm presuming so.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 20, 2013

@jmendeth Yes.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 20, 2013

@devinus Also, why don't we include the whole Houdini set of functions?
I only see escape_html and escape_href.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 20, 2013

@jmendeth Sundown/Hoedown only uses escape_html and escape_href
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 20, 2013

But if we're gonna include and backport improvements from Houdini,
why not let the user benefit from all the other functions?

They can be very useful, especially when writing custom renderers.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 20, 2013

@jmendeth: I investigated it, and we can't backport any improvements from Houdini. (There was potentially one, but it requires using Houdini's buffer classes). My gut tells me that if somebody wants another function from Houdini to use in their custom renderer, then they can depend on Houdini
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 20, 2013

What if we ported Houdini to use our buffer classes? I guess that wouldn't be difficult.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 20, 2013

@jmendeth: The one improvement was branch prediction that only applied when using libgit2's buffer class which doesn't apply to Hoedown at all. I may investigate applying some branch prediction around it later.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 20, 2013

Hmm... do tell us about that. :)
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 22, 2013

@zdne Can I ask what static analyzers you used on your fork?
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@zdne zdne replied Sep 23, 2013

@devinus standard clang static analyzer shipped with Xcode 5. Let me know should you have further questions.
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 23, 2013

@zdne Thanks, I was looking into using the standalone tool version of it: http://clang-analyzer.llvm.org/scan-build.html
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@devinus devinus replied Sep 25, 2013

To all those interested:

Announcing Hoedown 1.0.0, a revived fork of Sundown: https://github.com/hoedown/hoedown

I hope to see some of you there!
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@rudyryk rudyryk replied Apr 9, 2014

Any news? :)
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@JCMais JCMais replied Apr 27, 2014

There is a community test suite here https://github.com/karlcow/markdown-testsuite
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@asgh asgh replied Sep 18, 2014

Is https://github.com/jgm/stmd/ the expected heir to the throne?
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@txdv txdv replied Sep 18, 2014

It should be called now Common Markdown.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 18, 2014

@txdv see the footer at the end of the article. It's now CommonMark.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 18, 2014

@asgh That's just a spec. They do provide a C99 reference implementation, but I don't think it's meant to be used in production (or maybe it is?).

I want Hoedown to support CommonMark around v4 if possible.
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@styfle styfle replied Sep 18, 2014

@asgh @jmendeth
I do not believe it is production ready but @vmg looks to be heavily involved in jgm/stmd C implementation.

It is exciting to see all the activity and effort going into CommonMark.
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@mildsunrise mildsunrise replied Sep 19, 2014

Agreed.
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