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sectioning roots and the document outline #806

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stevefaulkner opened this issue Feb 22, 2017 · 5 comments
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sectioning roots and the document outline #806

stevefaulkner opened this issue Feb 22, 2017 · 5 comments
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@stevefaulkner
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@stevefaulkner stevefaulkner commented Feb 22, 2017

The currently defined sectioning roots produce somewhat bizarre results. In a test page I have included examples of all sectioning roots (except dialog which I can understand as not contributing to the doc outline as it is a pseudo window)

The resulting HTML5 document outline for the test page is [body element with no heading] None of the headings in the document are exposed in the document outline as per the algorithm. But as far as UA CSS is concerned they are still styled as headings of appropriate rank.

This was referenced Feb 22, 2017
@stevefaulkner stevefaulkner self-assigned this Feb 22, 2017
@stevefaulkner stevefaulkner added the bug label Feb 22, 2017
@jonathantneal

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@jonathantneal jonathantneal commented Feb 23, 2017

This may be related. validator/validator@0789dc8

@stevefaulkner

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@stevefaulkner stevefaulkner commented Feb 23, 2017

@jonathantneal yes I discussed this with @sideshowbarker

@AmeliaBR

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@AmeliaBR AmeliaBR commented Feb 26, 2017

For blockquote and figure, I think encapsulating the headings still makes sense. If you were using those elements as intended in a larger document, any nested headings would not be part of the main document outline, they would be part of the quote or example.

The same is probably true for td when used semantically, although layout tables confuse the matter considerably.

However, for fieldset and details, I don't quite understand the purpose of the encapsulation.

If you have a long form and use fieldset to group it into logical sections, I would expect the same outline as if the form was divided with section elements. I can't see why someone would use h1, h2, etc. inside a form and not intend them to be treated as ordinary headings.

Similarly for details: The accordion pattern with headings inside of summary is very much established as a way to collapse sections or asides. Yes, there are currently other accessibility issues with how to expose details/summary (if summary is exposed as a button containing a text label, instead of as a "disclosure triangle" button adjacent to text, the headings inside of summary may be obscured from the perspective of accessibility APIs). But if details/summary should never be used for section-level content, a massive re-education campaign will be required. So long as they continue to work (for most users) when used this way, they will continue to be used this way.

@patrickdark

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@patrickdark patrickdark commented Feb 28, 2017

@AmeliaBR I agree with you on details. I currently use XSLT to automatically transform all <section><h1/><section> constructs into <section><details><summary><h1/></summary></details></section>. Ditto for nav and both elements containing hgroup. Having details as a sectioning root basically means that my documents only have page headings as far as such an outline model is concerned and I need to go back to using JavaScript to show/hide...

fieldset doesn't make sense with heading elements if you're using them to mark singular fields and inseparable fields like checkbox and radio button groups. I can see how someone could understand them to be equivalent to section elements though. (Kind of a moot point, however, since people are going to stay away from fieldset/legend until they're made fully stylable.)

@siusin

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@siusin siusin commented Jul 29, 2019

Thanks all.

We're closing this issue on the W3C HTML specification because the W3C and WHATWG are now working together on HTML, and all issues are being discussed on the WHATWG repository.

If you filed this issue and you still think it is relevant, please open a new issue on the WHATWG repository and reference this issue (if there is useful information here). Before you open a new issue, please check for existing issues on the WHATWG repository to avoid duplication.

If you have questions about this, please open an issue on the W3C HTML WG repository or send an email to public-html@w3.org.

@siusin siusin closed this Jul 29, 2019
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