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List features that are excluded from deprecation requirements #12

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merged 7 commits into from Apr 27, 2018

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commented Nov 10, 2017

Close #11
Close #14

@palemieux palemieux self-assigned this Nov 10, 2017

@palemieux palemieux requested a review from nigelmegitt Nov 10, 2017

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commented Nov 16, 2017

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commented Nov 20, 2017

I'll hold off review until we've resolved the blocker, but at first glance it looks fine to me. Part of my review would be to double check that the list is correct.

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I think things have moved on and the wording needs revisiting.

index.html Outdated
@@ -87,7 +87,20 @@ <h3>TTML2 Subset</h3>
document.</p>

<p>[[!ttml-imsc1.0.1]] syntax that is not supported in [[!TTML2]] SHALL be mapped to an equivalent [[!TTML2]] syntax and
deprecated in [[!ttml-imsc1.1]].</p>
deprecated in [[!ttml-imsc1.1]], with the exception of the following extensions relative to the IMSC 1.0 Extension

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nigelmegitt Jan 16, 2018

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Since the features listed are not now supported in TTML2 I think the list is now the complete list not the exceptions?

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palemieux Jan 16, 2018

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These are requirements, and I think the TTWG has heard from key users that these specific feature should remain in IMSC1.1 regardless of their disposition in TTML2.

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nigelmegitt Jan 16, 2018

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Yes sure, I'm not arguing with the list. My point is that the sentence above says "syntax that is not supported in TTML2 ... with the exception of the following extensions" but those are not exceptions, since they are in the set of syntax not supported in TTML2.

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tairt Jan 17, 2018

I think the text is correct. Let's take #forcedDisplay as example. The exception is not that they the syntax/feature is not "supported in TTML2". The exception is that the the "SHALL be mapped to an equivalent [TTML2] syntax and be deprecated" requirement do not apply.

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nigelmegitt Jan 18, 2018

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@tairt That's not how I read the text - I read it that the exception is relative to the set of IMSC 1.0.1 syntax that is not supported in TTML2. Since we have two different readings, that is evidence that the wording needs editorial work to resolve the ambiguity.

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commented Jan 16, 2018

but those are not exceptions, since they are in the set of syntax not supported in TTML2.

Well one could argue that itts:forcedDisplay is supported, and it does not hurt to explicitly exclude fillLineGap, etc... even if they no longer (currently) have an equivalent.

Do you want to suggest alternative words?

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tairt approved these changes Jan 17, 2018

index.html Outdated
@@ -87,7 +87,20 @@ <h3>TTML2 Subset</h3>
document.</p>

<p>[[!ttml-imsc1.0.1]] syntax that is not supported in [[!TTML2]] SHALL be mapped to an equivalent [[!TTML2]] syntax and
deprecated in [[!ttml-imsc1.1]].</p>
deprecated in [[!ttml-imsc1.1]], with the exception of the following extensions relative to the IMSC 1.0 Extension

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tairt Jan 17, 2018

I think the text is correct. Let's take #forcedDisplay as example. The exception is not that they the syntax/feature is not "supported in TTML2". The exception is that the the "SHALL be mapped to an equivalent [TTML2] syntax and be deprecated" requirement do not apply.

@palemieux palemieux added this to the v1.1 milestone Jan 18, 2018

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Noting that there's ambiguity in the text and at least two different interpretations, requesting editorial changes to resolve.

index.html Outdated
</ul>

<p>When [[!ttml-imsc1.0.1]] syntax is deprecated and mapped to equivalent [[!TTML2]] syntax, both syntaxes SHALL NOT be
simultaneously present in the same document.</p>

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nigelmegitt Mar 12, 2018

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We should define "deprecated" to mean "is permitted within a document instance but is expected to be prohibited in a future version".

index.html Outdated
</ul>

<p>When [[!ttml-imsc1.0.1]] syntax is deprecated and mapped to equivalent [[!TTML2]] syntax, both syntaxes SHALL NOT be
simultaneously present in the same document.</p>

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nigelmegitt Mar 12, 2018

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How do we test for them being simultaneously present? In general there might not be a 1:1 equivalence between deprecated IMSC 1.0.1 syntax and TTML2 syntax so it could be that semantic mapping is also needed. It would be very useful to have a list of the specific features being deprecated so we can check the specific mappings and verify that every mapping can be tested for.

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palemieux Mar 12, 2018

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How do we test for them being simultaneously present?

This is only a requirements document, so I do not think it is necessary or appropriate to go in that level of detail. IMSC 1.1 constains the normative prose that can be tested. See 7.12.6 #displayAspectRatio at https://rawgit.com/w3c/imsc/IMSC1.1/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html, for instance

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nigelmegitt Mar 13, 2018

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I think we do need to satisfy ourselves that this requirement can actually be met though. That is not at all obvious.

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commented Apr 4, 2018

@nigelmegitt Did 5582c53 address your concerns?

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commented Apr 26, 2018

@nigelmegitt For your review

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This is better, but needs a further tweak for consistency please.

index.html Outdated
<li><code>#multiRowAlign</code></li>
</ul>

<p>When [[!ttml-imsc1.0.1]] syntax is <a>deprecated</a> and mapped to equivalent [[!TTML2]] syntax, both syntaxes SHALL NOT

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nigelmegitt Apr 26, 2018

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The paragraph immediately preceding the bullet list talks about extensions being deprecated and features being permitted, but this sentence talks about syntax. For consistency, change this to "When an IMSC 1.0.1 extension is deprecated and an equivalent TTML2 feature is permitted, a document instance shall not use both the deprecated extension and the equivalent TTML2 feature." (happy to take editorial tweaks - just making the point that it's about features and extensions not syntax now)

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palemieux Apr 26, 2018

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Modified as suggested

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Thanks, that works for me @palemieux .

@palemieux palemieux merged commit f3e12e1 into master Apr 27, 2018

@palemieux palemieux deleted the issue-11-list-deprecation-exceptions branch Apr 11, 2019

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