Minutes 30 November 2017

Dave Cramer edited this page Dec 6, 2017 · 1 revision

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Meeting: EPUB 3 CG Telco

Date: 2017-11-30

See also the Agenda and the draft minutes


Present: Tzviya Siegman, Dave Cramer, Avneesh Singh, Wolfgang, Luc Audrain, John Costa, Mike Baker, toshiakikoike, Rachel Comerford, Deborah Kaplan, Tobias Fischer, Garth Conboy, Bill Kasdorf, Robby Robson, Charles Lapierre, Brady Duga, Benjamin Young, Laurent Le Meur, Laura Brady

Chair: Dave Cramer, Rachel Comerford

Scribe(s): John Costa


  1. IEEE Learning Technology Standards Committee

  2. epubcheck

  3. Best practices for extended descriptions

  4. EPUB 3.0.2

  5. General Best Practices

IEEE Learning Technology Standards Committee

Robby:: Chairing study group in IEEE Learning Tech Standards Committee to identify standards for use of ebooks and EPUB3.1 for learning education and training

Robby Robson:: Open for questions about standards within IEEE - Tracking with xAPI and Learning Record Store (LRS) for experiential learning analytics. Also Adaptivity in EPUB3.x based on competency, Content Brokering - additional content pushed or pulled into eBook, Communications - contextual chat, mobile communications

Robby Robson:: Standards for mobile affordances, geo-location, A/V

Rachel:: analytics standards... are there overlap?

Robby:: xAPI, Caliper are different. There are others, HPM, DIS in HLA for tracking useful learning data can also merge

Avneesh: epubtest.org fit to the IEEE study group?

John Costa:: working with BISG on advancing epubtest.org...

Rachel:: ePub as a learning platform sounds more like a best practice rather than specification

Robby:: IEEE can create standards, recommendations or guides. High interest in this in commercial and government markets already. We want this to support publishing market as well.

tzviya:: IEEE standards definition is different from IDPF W3C definition. Align definitions of standards, best practices

Robby:: IEEE is getting into open source standards, open source reference code associated with standard. We should take this offline to another meeting.

Rachel:: Should conversation be in github, email?

Dave:: So much to absorb. Start a github issue on the topic.

Rachel:: Requested that Robby start the issue


Tzviya:: Tobias Fischer will put out maintenance release of epubcheck in coming weeks

Tzviya:: next steps are to cleanup codebase and tests. Seeking fundraising ideas to better enable contribution.

Bill Kasdorf: lots of background noise

Rachel: +1 to finding ways to allow for non-Java contribution

Tobias Fischer:: almost done with epubcheck 4.1. Few remaining bugs to address. They need help to fix these. Currently no epub3.1 support.... Daniel in Sweden is submitting new changes now. Looking to improve the test, make it easier to iterate.

Tzviya:: Dave and Benjamin to present pitch on epubcheck.

Benjamin Young: epub3.1 not covered. start smaller focused rewrite for 3.1. make it more iterable that adapts to spec easier.

bigbluehat: https://github.com/BigBlueHat/web-annotation-protocol-tester#screenshot

bigbluehat: https://github.com/BigBlueHat/web-annotation-protocol-tester/blob/master/test/musts.js#L100-L106

bigbluehat:: map the results closely to spec so you can search for terms. Group Musts, Shoulds, etc.

bigbluehat:: scope of what needs to be rewritten can be smaller this way.

Tzviya:: setting up call for Benjamin, Romain, Tobias to scope this

Best practices for extended descriptions

Avneesh:: no way to provide extended descriptions currently. Data attributes/ Described_by has limitations for images. Publishers want longer descriptions. Screen readers have difficulty if text is long.

Avneesh: http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/html/images.html#ex-02

Avneesh: https://benetech.app.box.com/s/5zt5jbz4fydu8hlqulb649l2vdo736mq

Avneesh:: need a simple alternative that will work in most reading systems. Matt made recommendation based on simple linking mechanism. Link above ... described_by is not going away. this is one of several options. diagramcentral.org BISG already aware and discussing QuickStart guide. ... One concern - information is outdated in IDPF guidance. Knowledgebase is providing outdated info to publishers.

Luc Audrain: +1

Tzviya:: why is ARIA necessary? HTML recommendations seem sufficient.

Tzviya: see https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/561

Clapierre:: publishers dont want URL link as text (ugly) testing with an image that links but clickable images are problem in some readers

Rachel:: need for extended descriptions in science, psychology, etc. Cant disrupt visual user experience and degrade pedagogical experience.

Wolfgang: s/cant/can't/

Avneesh:: latest version of Edge supports but IE will not collapse it.

EPUB 3.0.2

Rachel:: moving on. Garth to speak on 3.0.2

Garth: EPUB 3.0.2 proposal

Garth:: epub 3.1 has adoption problems, conflicts with 3.0.1. No epubcheck for it yet. Proposing recast of 3.0.1 as 3.0.2 ... fully upward compatible . This could drive real spec activity after IDPF W3C merge. Design criteria - any 301 pub also conforms to 302 and any 301 reader can play 302 with graceful fallback. ... Review proposal - link above. This is logical interim step toward 3.1 . Please comment in the doc.

Best Practices

Rachel: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/commit/37c07428e607fdaefcbaa0be3126dd845d47aed2

Rachel: best practices - started the basic framework for doc. First pull request in github. Please contribute to this. Did a survey with BISG about resources - response was minimal. Please open new pull requests if you want to add things.

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