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Tutorial menu (S3): Add a scenario where the player can choose the next tutorial #4399

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@stevecotton
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commented Sep 29, 2019

This is meant to make it clear to the player that they've finished the
"required" tutorial, and are now ready for the campaigns, but also to allow
additional scenarios that are along the lines of the Tactic Puzzles addon.

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commented Sep 29, 2019

It might be better to introduce player to each faction. It is probably challenging when player starts a human campaign like HttT with knowledge how to play only Elves (and Orcs) .

@Wedge009 Wedge009 added the Campaign label Sep 29, 2019
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commented Sep 29, 2019

I guess it would be nice if, once you've beaten tutorial S2, you could jump directly to the tutorial signposts scenario afterwards. I'm not sure how to do this. Maybe if we move the signposts scenario to be S0, and in the start event, instruct the player to do "End turn" to go to S1?

It might be better to introduce player to each faction. It is probably challenging when player starts a human campaign like HttT with knowledge how to play only Elves (and Orcs) .

🤔

I can see how having reviews of the standard factions and their properties would be useful. It'll certainly be more user-friendly to have a tutorial scenario that says "These are dwarves, they have 70% defense and 1MP on mountains" than to have to pore over the help screen the first time you encounter dwarves (as either own units, allies, or enemies).

On the other hand, if we had seven per-faction topics, that could be a net negative. New players might see a laundry list of topics to learn and be deterred from playing on. In that case we should probably make it clear that the extra lessons are meant à la carte, "read what you need when you need it", nothing more than that. Or perhaps do just one extra lesson that comprises all seven factions.

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commented Sep 29, 2019

@stevecotton, @beetlenaut might have useful input on how to extend the tutorial. (Also on what content to add, I'm sure, though that's beyond the scope of this issue.)

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commented Sep 29, 2019

Perhaps adding an option like "Read more about each faction to learn their advantages and disadvantages and learn how to play with them" or another option "Return to the title screen" could be good?

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commented Oct 2, 2019

Somewhat related: this would be a nice thing to have for unit advancements, too. For example, the Elvish Shyde, Sylph, and Ranger all have a different movetype than their lower levels, but it's very easy to overlook this. It's a wild idea, but how about, say,

[unit_type]
    id=Elvish Ranger
    [on_discover]
        [message]
            speaker=narrator
            image=wesnoth-icon.png
            message=_ "<b><big>New unit type discovered</big></b>

Elvish Rangers have a new ability (<i>ambush</i>) and move faster through hills and shallow watter."
        [/message]
    [/on_discover]
[/unit_type]

Needs some thinking, though - for example, what happens if the player first discovers the unit when it's an enemy unit, or by opening the MP "Choose faction" dialog (which "discovers" all units eligible to be leaders).

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commented Oct 2, 2019

Maybe it would be better with {PRINT (_ "New unit type discovered")} ?

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commented Oct 3, 2019

@beetlenaut might have useful input on how to extend the tutorial.

I'm not sure it needs to be extended, but it needs to be a lot easier to beat the second scenario. I watched 18 high-school students play, and almost half of them lost the first time. If you don't kill that first grunt from the bridge right away, it gets a lot harder. The orc gets all the villages and the island, and he starts coming over the ford as well. A new player can get overrun. It doesn't need to be completely redesigned, but it needs to be modified to be much easier:
It would help a lot if the first unit on the bridge was a goblin. (The ZOC lesson could be saved until later.) Also, the enemy should not get wolves as they can easily block the player on the bridge and attack from the water before the player can make it across. There is no reason the enemy needs quite so many units either. Taking out two or three and/or making some of them goblins would be a good idea.

Or perhaps do just one extra lesson that comprises all seven factions.

You wouldn't need a whole scenario for this lesson. Just a single map/turn would do. The map could have different sections for the factions. All the units would be present, and the player could right-click for descriptions, or read a paragraph about the faction by, for instance, clicking on the leader. Even better if there is a large text label naming the faction that the player could click on for that general information. This could be accessible from the help menu instead of the tutorial as well. This is a quick example of what part of such a map could look like.

map_example

(Edited to address a second comment.)

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commented Oct 3, 2019

Player could choose his leader and enemy leader at start of the scenario, so that player actually chooses the matchup he wants to learn. This might be complicated to make, but alternatively it can be more scenarios on the same map (perhaps some multiplayer map?)

…xt tutorial

This is meant to make it clear to the player that they've finished the
"required" tutorial, and are now ready for the campaigns, but also to allow
additional scenarios that are along the lines of the Tactic Puzzles addon.
@stevecotton stevecotton force-pushed the stevecotton:tutorial_menu_scenario branch from 0efb4a6 to c7bdd39 Oct 3, 2019
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commented Oct 3, 2019

force-pushed

Rebased on top of the map_data/map_file change, and set no carryover gold when returning to S2.

If you don't kill that first grunt from the bridge right away, it gets a lot harder.

Wow, I just tried that and was surprised. He's using the Guardian AI, so unless the player baits him over the bridge then he'll wait in a well-defended position; and he has less MP than an elf, so a player might reasonably put units out of his range in the turn before attacking.

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commented Oct 3, 2019

Player could choose his leader and enemy leader at start of the scenario, so that player actually chooses the matchup he wants to learn. This might be complicated to make, but alternatively it can be more scenarios on the same map (perhaps some multiplayer map?)

I think it'd be premature to teach players about matchups before they've learnt the individual factions.

Wow, I just tried that and was surprised. He's using the Guardian AI, so unless the player baits him over the bridge then he'll wait in a well-defended position; and he has less MP than an elf, so a player might reasonably put units out of his range in the turn before attacking.

Wow. I think the idea here might be that a new player won't know to use "Show enemy moves" in order to place his units out of the grunt's reach?

I played the 1.12 tutorial for comparison. In 1.12, on side 1 turn 1 the player is ordered to recruit an Archer on the south-west hex, and on side 2 turn 1 the grunt moves across the bridge (not having been baited), so on side 1 turn 2 the player can already attack him. That's basically exactly what happens in master if the player baits the grunt, except that the grunt gets to attack first (hopefully the player put a Shaman behind the baiting unit!). On the other hand, if the player doesn't bait the grunt, then the scenario becomes much harder.

Presumably this should be changed to be easier.

I'm not sure it needs to be extended, but it needs to be a lot easier to beat the second scenario. I watched 18 high-school students play, and almost half of them lost the first time. If you don't kill that first grunt from the bridge right away, it gets a lot harder. The orc gets all the villages and the island, and he starts coming over the ford as well. A new player can get overrun. It doesn't need to be completely redesigned, but it needs to be modified to be much easier:

@beetlenaut Good ideas about the goblin, etc. Have the students tried one of the campaigns, perhaps TSG / AOI / AToTB? Do you have any insights about those? They're specifically recommended as beginner campaigns, and I'm curious how well they do in that department.

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commented Oct 3, 2019

Wow. I think the idea here might be that a new player won't know to use "Show enemy moves" in order to place his units out of the grunt's reach?

... except that the grunt gets to attack first (hopefully the player put a Shaman behind the baiting unit!).

The odds are so stacked against the grunt that it doesn't matter if the player puts their only shaman at the front and the grunt gets all his RNG rolls - a strong grunt can do 8x2 hp damage during daytime, a quick shaman has 25 hp, and she'll be able to run north behind some other elves on the player's turn. There's a couple of villages near the bridge that the player will want to take around turns 3-4, and there will be a queue for getting over the bridge, so the injured unit is likely to be used as a village taker.

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commented Oct 3, 2019

It would help a lot if the first unit on the bridge was a goblin. (The ZOC lesson could be saved until later.) Also, the enemy should not get wolves as they can easily block the player on the bridge and attack from the water before the player can make it across. There is no reason the enemy needs quite so many units either. Taking out two or three and/or making some of them goblins would be a good idea.

Although weaker, Goblins are more complex than Grunts. Either they have both melee and ranged attacks, or they have L1 leadership; they also have very different traits to Elves.

BTW, this discussion seems a separate issue to the current PR. Would anyone object to me merging this PR (to 1.15 only), so that it's easier to try out ideas for additional scenarios?

speaker=narrator
caption= _ "Replay Elves vs Orcs"
image=wesnoth-icon.png
message= _ "Play the main tutorial scenario again, your recall list will already have the experienced troops from your previous playthrough."

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jostephd Oct 15, 2019

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Comma splice.

#enddef

{PLACE_IMAGE "scenery/signpost.png" 6 3}
{SET_LABEL 6 3 _"Replay Elves vs Orcs"}

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jostephd Oct 15, 2019

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So it's a minor thing, but because it's the tutorial and all new players will go through here, I'll ask it: should we add a signpost labeled "Exit to title screen", so it's clear that's an option too?

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commented Oct 15, 2019

@beetlenaut

It would help a lot if the first unit on the bridge was a goblin. (The ZOC lesson could be saved until later.)

Or it could be an impaler if you don't want to move the ZoC lesson?

Though I also see stevecotton's point about the grunt being a simpler unit...

On to the actual topic of this PR... I don't currently have much opinion on whether it's a good idea.

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