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Ember tooling #8

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addyosmani opened this Issue · 19 comments

8 participants

Addy Osmani Sindre Sorhus Anthony Bull Ryan Florence Pascal Hartig gonvaled Trek Glowacki Andre Lewis
Addy Osmani
Owner

I would ideally like for us to be able to offer something akin to @rpflorence's excellent https://github.com/rpflorence/ember-tools project using our generator system. I feel it's superior.

We should be able to enable devs to create scaffolding tools like that with ease. Do we think it's worth exploring creating a POC of ember-tools using our system to prove it can be done or is the ember generator currently here already sufficient?

cc @sindresorhus @passy @paulirish

Addy Osmani
Owner

Some feedback from him:

  • Looked at Yeoman initially but couldn't find docs for what he was trying to do after 20 mins (we need better docs)
  • Hasn't had to spend much time with Grunt which may also have influenced the direction he took - ember-tools uses its own stack, not grunt at all.
  • Felt like many developers hesitate to contribute generators to yeoman vs. doing their own thing because its seen as having to contribute to this big project. "Okay. Maybe I want to do this with Yeoman. So, do I have to send a pull request? That seems dumb". Perhaps we need to make it clearer how devs use us as a base and don't have to have their creations hosted under our org. We've seen some people realize this already, but could be made clearer.
Sindre Sorhus

I would like for the Ember generator make Ember devs more productive and happy. Whatever that entails. Ember-tools seems like a good start.

// @inkredabull what are your thoughts?

Anthony Bull

That screencast by @rpflorence is slick.

When I first started creating an Ember generator for Yeoman, my primary concern was to keep it as simple as possible to not overwhelm someone new to both Yeoman and Ember by making them learn two, brand-new (and somewhat volatile) paradigms (read: APIs.)

With RC 1 of Ember, maybe we're finally at the point that a Hello World generator for Ember within Yeoman just won't cut it anymore.

Ryan Florence

ember-tools was born from some hackscripts I was making as I started a project in ember. Its not well thought-out and just gets the job done ASAP. When I decided to pull my scripts out of my project into ember-tools my first thought was Yeoman. But I don't really get grunt (you don't know what you don't know), couldn't tell if yeoman supported the extensive scaffolding I wanted, and it appeared I'd just be contributing to something when I'd rather own it. So I moved on quickly and built something useful.

Knowing that I can still own ember-tools and build on top of yeoman sounds great. I'd love to see some documentation on how your generators work and then perhaps make the switch.

Anthony Bull

@rpflorence documentation for Yeoman (particularly in regards to generators) has improved dramatically in the last six months. Check out https://github.com/yeoman/yeoman/wiki/Generators

Pascal Hartig
Owner

@inkredabull Unfortunately most of it is quite out of date since it hasn't been updated for Yeoman 1.0 yet and uses yeoman instead of the new yo tool in all the examples. Also the

Addy Osmani
Owner

I'm blocking out an hour of time this afternoon to start work on better generator docs. Will report back on how far I get. It's going to take much longer to get something useful together, but its a start :)

gonvaled

This could also serve as inspiration.

Anthony Bull

IMHO Yeoman's bang-for-the-buck is to be as Rails-generator-like as possible for F2Es who may or may not be familiar with Rails generators.

I have heard it said that it would be great if all the JS MVC frameworks standardized on a reference application for developers to be able to choose by comparing apples-to-apples. I think that's a laudable goal, but I don't think "tutorials" are what Yeoman's generators should be striving for. At least, I haven't been sold on that yet.

While the currently-included starter-kit is simplistic and doesn't demonstrate the full power of the Ember.js framework, I hesitate to toss a noob Ember.js dev into the deep-end with anything more than that. I think what @trek has done is great for illustrating core concepts and that, eventually, when developers have digested those concepts and need a workflow tool, they make use of generator-ember.

Trek Glowacki

@gonvaled @inkredabull I wrote that in a world before ember-tools, when yeoman and grunt were all intermixed and overlapping. Now I'd prefer if people would just coalesce around a tool already!

Anthony Bull

Ah those halcyon days @trek; when was that, two... three months ago? ;-)

gonvaled

Sorry, noob here. @trek: when you say "coalesce around a tool", are you talking about choosing either grunt or yeoman? Yeoman uses grunt, so it is not a question of choosing one. Maybe I misunderstood your point.

Trek Glowacki

@gonvaled people should use yeoman + grunt instead of hand-crafting like I did or having to solve this problem on their own like @rpflorence had to.

Addy Osmani
Owner

What I would like to do is:

  • Provide better end-user documentation to developers wishing to build scaffolding tools on top of Yeoman
  • For more widely used tools like ember-tools and bbb, work on a proof of concept implementation using yo as a base to demonstrate to authors they can achieve something similar using our toolchain

Would that be of interest, @rpflorence?

Ryan Florence

If I had been an ember expert the day I started building ember-tools I would have trudged through yeoman. But since I was learning ember in the process (with the process?) I felt like it'd be faster to just learn ember and hack together the rest, which it probably was.

If I understand you correctly, you're going to make a "this is what you should have done" proof-of-concept, and then I can take that and go crazy? Sounds perfect :)

Addy Osmani
Owner

If I understand you correctly, you're going to make a "this is what you should have done" proof-of-concept, and then I can take that and go crazy? Sounds perfect :)

Yep. That's what I'm suggesting :)

Sindre Sorhus

I like the sound of that.

Andre Lewis

But of course, there is the updated doc: http://yeoman.io/generators.html
Just in case anyone missed it.

Addy Osmani
Owner

Closing this thread, but if anyone is interested in prototyping ember-tools with yeoman or helping us introduce a better feature set as part of #128, that would be incredibly helpful :)

Addy Osmani addyosmani closed this
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