Under new management #30568
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Supporting defunct versions of Python seems like a great way to handicap the project and a total waste of time. |
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This repository should just become yt-dlp tbh |
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this is ridiculous. Python 2 is dead |
By now, yt-dlp has accumulated various incompatibilities with youtube-dl and it is no longer a drop-in replacement for many users. So youtube-dl can't just "become yt-dlp". Since I do not intend to revert these changes, it is best that both projects co-exist. If you like to use yt-dlp, use it. And if you prefer youtube-dl, use this. It is a waste of everyone's time to post issues/comments asking for either project to "become" the other |
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fyi python 2 reached EOL 2 years ago, before windows 7 did. |
fair enough! Consider mentioning dlp in the readme though? |
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@Twangist and supporters, please direct your Python 3.7+ enthusiasm to the yt-dlp project, as @pukkandan says. No-one would bother maintaining two versions of a program if there wasn't a good reason. There are still applications where older Python versions have to be supported: among the known cases are those where that's all the platform offers, and where yt-dl is being embedded in a larger chunk of Python 2 code that no-one is going to port. This project has already established a compatibility library that largely allows you to code for Python 3 while remaining compatible with Python 2, by using the library's compat_xxx types and avoiding novel syntax elements ( The project Readme should definitely be updated, in due course, as @boehs suggests. |
Wouldn't merging the two projects be a better use of resources |
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Essentially #30568 (comment) said all that needed to be said. But... Understandably, yt-dlp wants to be able to rely on supported Python versions (and 3.6), which means that we need to keep yt-dl up-to-date to address the cases I described above that can't practically use those versions, desirable as it might be. For people concerned that Python 2 is a couple of years beyond EOL, one case that I support could survive until 2038, or the end of DVB-T2 broadcasting if that comes sooner. That's the timescale of deployed embedded applications, a very different world from 'What version is Chrome today?' on your personal computing device. Maybe some future Python version supported by yt-dlp will diverge so far that common development becomes impractical. This isn't the case now. |
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Appreciate the openness, @dirkf. I personally wasn't aware that one of I am not and will not ever advocate for projects closely mirroring each other. But, in case that's a useful user feedback for you: my main reason for moving to Thanks for the update. It's appreciated. |
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Wouldn't it be better to either release an LTS or to set a date when support for everything below 3.6 is dropped. Motivating people to stay on EOL versions of Python carries a lot of security risks, not just for this project but also for projects that depend on it. And I would assume that older projects would most likely already have their dependencies version locked anyways. |
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Python 2 is end of life and no longer receiving any security updates, you supporting Python 2 will just motivate others to not move on from insecure unmaintained dependencies. You'll also be splitting up manpower by not just encouraging use of yt-dlp, which will affect everyone, not just those who insist on not realizing the past is the past. |
To be fair, yt-dlp usually implements all of youtube-dl's commits pretty quickly (unless they conflict with yt-dlp), so youtube-dl continuing to be maintained won't negatively affect yt-dlp that much. Also, #30568 (comment) said that youtube-dl's readme will be updated to mention yt-dlp |
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Who is @dirkf? |
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Just your standard Internet hound. Just to confirm, Python 2 (or 2 and < 3.6) compatibility wasn't originally a goal of the project since Python 3 appeared only after the project was created, but that level of compatibility is a goal now, since yt-dlp exists for more recent Python versions. And anyone who can practically do so should run a supported Python version, on which yt-dl should run equally well. |
May I suggest going one step further and informing the user about yt-dlp every time they run EDIT: Sorry boehs for the ping, it was an accident |
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I'd suggest you to unpin (or move to the lowest) #27013 because its title is a bit confusing. Anyway, I'd appreciate youtube-dl now have a new maintainer. |
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@gamer191 wrote:
You can suggest it, but I think just updating the documentation will be quite enough. Feel free to try your luck with a PR, though, but I don't fancy your chances. @Lesmiscore wrote:
Good point, it's not exactly news now, and I hope it won't be again. |
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Stubbornly supporting products that are way past their due date is absurd. Stop poking at dead bodies and embrace change rather than avoid it at all cost. Do what the CPython team did: grow some balls, deprecate and move on. People will be angry, it always happens. But enough people are angry now with this project supporting a Python release that is 12 years old. It's not like deprecated software suddendly stops working. It just isn't maintained anymore: if anyone still needs Python 2.7 support it's either their fault or their problem to deal with and certainly not a good reason to stifle the projects' growth, creating confusion and splitting manpower across 2 projects doing basically the same thing |
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sorry, I forgot about |
So is the only point of even keeping this project alive to support hella old versions of Python? Is any new functionality gonna be added? I'd love to see a few issues be closed on this that would actually improve the project. This is the OG of yt-dlp, after all. Let's not let the clone become better than the OG. |
If you could think of any way to quantify what would signify the point in which "the clone" became better, you'd have already realize that point is at least 3 years in the past. Welcome. |
@EvanCarroll yeah, I stopped using |
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C is 50 years old, and the device you're reading this on relies on it for all of its basic functionalities... I'm pretty sure that youtube-dl can continue to be developed while targeting Python 2.6 :) |
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@Tachi107 That's silly. You're arbitrarily looking at the first-release date, which has no relevance to the conversation.
None of this is true for Python2. It's dead. |
That's fair, but it is also true that new C versions are not widely available (MSVC does not even completely support C11...). And in any case, projects like curl still use C89, because regardless of what the language is doing, if you want to stay highly portable you have to stick to outdated stuff, see the next point.
Who cares. If it has users, you have to respect the project's decision to continue supporting it. Believe it or not, some platforms are still stuck with Python2 (like NonStop OS on ia64), and do not have any Python3 port. Yeah, you and I probably don't need to worry about this, but somebody else might do :) Edit: please, don't go to the OpenSSL thread to ask things unrelated to their issue, you'll notify all the people subscribed to that thread. |
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It doesn't have users, and you're just wrong on those points. =)
It doesn't, and if did they're running insecure code. But if there were users and if Python 2 was supported upstream, I would agree. |
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This thread is not about C (but you're free to try to use C11 threads on Windows, regardless of which compiler you use - it is not going to work).
Security is not that relevant in all contexts (and is overlooked when it really matters), and, as already mentioned in this thread, there're plenty of embedded (and not) systems running a fixed release of python; my local train station still uses Debian 6 or something, for instance. Anyway, you're free to think and use whatever you want - just stop being so ungrateful towards people developing software you use for free. |
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Indeed, #30568 (comment) (there are other cases). I'm quite sure the users of the STB application would rather use "insecure code" to access YT and BBC catch-up content that the STB used to support than not be able to do so at all. Equally, they aren't going to be upgrading from Linux kernel 2.6. A Python 2.7 system will still run correct and diagnose incorrect Python 2.7 programs regardless of the support status designated by PSF. The linked OpenSSL thread is interesting in that **** build tool dependencies as discussed there are exactly why no Py3 exists on the STB platform (sizing might also be a problem, but was never reached). |
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I wish you could just merge the two projects, I think that would have been for the best. But at least both projects should look alive and have regular releases in order to not lose community focus. I personally don't care for the new shiny features of yt-dlp. I prefer to use the good old widely known I haven't seen anyone asking you to keep supporting Python 2 but I see people asking for a new |
./start_kit/video_downloader.py was not working with some youtube videos, due to youtube-dl out of date. Therefore this commit updates ./start_kit/video_downloader.py to use yt-dlp which is a more up to date fork of youtube-dl. It looks like youtube-dl is under new maintenance and may become viable in the future. Therefore the youtube_downloader variable can be changes in ./start_kit/video_downloader.py to easily switch between the two. Relevant github issue for youtube-dl status: ytdl-org/youtube-dl#30568
Addresses: dxli94#56 ./start_kit/video_downloader.py was not working with some youtube videos, due to youtube-dl out of date. Therefore this commit updates ./start_kit/video_downloader.py to use yt-dlp which is a more up to date fork of youtube-dl. It looks like youtube-dl is under new maintenance and may become viable in the future. Therefore the youtube_downloader variable can be changes in ./start_kit/video_downloader.py to easily switch between the two. Relevant github issue for youtube-dl status: ytdl-org/youtube-dl#30568
Addresses: dxli94#56 ./start_kit/video_downloader.py was not working with some youtube videos, due to youtube-dl out of date. Therefore this commit updates ./start_kit/video_downloader.py to use yt-dlp which is a more up to date fork of youtube-dl. It looks like youtube-dl is under new maintenance and may become viable in the future. Therefore the youtube_downloader variable can be changes in ./start_kit/video_downloader.py to easily switch between the two. Relevant github issue for youtube-dl status: ytdl-org/youtube-dl#30568
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So many fucking people complaining about a good thing. More support means more users. A basic fucking video downloader should work on a toaster, not require the latest """""""""secure""""""""" version of x software that has years of extra bloat and tells you to fuck off if your system is barely out of date. |
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@K4sum1 yt-dlp works on python3.7+, hardly new. It was released in 2018. It's the oldest still supported version of Python 3. |
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Apparently there are plenty of users who want youtube-dl rather than yt-dlp, for whatever reasons, and complain when the latter is suggested as an alternative. This was demonstrated when YT broke the program. At least one user wanted yt-dl running on Python 2.6 (it does, with some limitations).
The first (and see above) doesn't require anything to be changed; the second requires new work. Despite some 75 PRs being merged since this issue was created, no PRs have failed because of Python language issues. There has been quite full co-operation and cross-fertilisation between this project and yt-dlp, including straightforward back-ports of some yt-dlp features coded for Py3.7+. This issue is no longer pinned and has been quite fully discussed. To avoid issue necromancy, I'm going to close and lock it now. |
and others
Thanks to @rg3 who created this program the project has a new maintainer.
Also, many thanks to @dstftw and @remitamine for holding the fort over the last several years.
I hope that we'll be able to make a new release soon and subsequently keep the program more up-to-date than has been the case for the last few months.
The project has a fork https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp that offers a lot of extra functions but demands an up-to-date Python version. This project will continue to target Python version 2.6, 2.7, or 3.2+, at least until no-one complains about 2.6 compatibility.
PRs are very welcome, although there is a significant back-log to be handled. Back-ports of yt-dlp features are also welcome.
Finally, I'd encourage anyone else who is interested in sharing maintenance duties to establish a track record and make themselves known. We want to keep this popular project alive with a community of future maintainers.
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