026_Full_Stack_Pythons_Guide_To_Deployments_UPDATED.vtt

WEBVTT

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So you've built this amazing Python web app, and now what?

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You want to put it online, of course, but that's a whole different skill set.

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Well, today you're in luck because Matthew McKay is here to tell us all about deploying Python web applications on episode number 26, recorded Monday, August 17, 2015.

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I'm a developer in many senses of the word because I make these applications, but I also use these verbs to make this music.

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I construct it line by line, just like when I'm coding another software design.

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In both cases, it's about design patterns.

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Anyone can get the job done.

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It's the execution that matters.

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I have many interests.

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Sometimes it can flake.

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Welcome to Talk Python to Me, a weekly podcast on Python, the language, the libraries, the ecosystem, and the personalities.

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This is your host, Michael Kennedy.

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Follow me on Twitter where I'm @mkennedy.

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Keep up with the show and listen to past episodes at talkpython.fm, and follow the show on Twitter via at Talk Python.

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This episode is brought to you by Hired and OptBeat.

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Thank them for supporting the show on Twitter via at Hired underscore HQ and at OptBeat.

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That's right, OptBeat has joined the show as a periodic sponsor, and they have a huge announcement for you later in the episode.

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I have a little news for you this week.

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First, Import Python, the newsletter, guys, have created a free job board.

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So whether you're hiring or looking for work in Python, check out importpython.com slash job board.

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The past two episodes have been with book authors, as is this one as well.

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And for each episode, I've given away a book to one lucky listener who's already signed up as a friend of the show.

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I want to say congratulations to Kristen Wedmark from Sweden, who won Fluent Python,

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and Keith Ord from Georgia, who picked up Effective Python.

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Do you want to win a book just like Kristen and Keith?

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Well, be sure to sign up at talkpython.fm as a friend of the show, and you'll be in the running.

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Now let me introduce Matthew.

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Matthew McKay is a Twilio developer evangelist based in San Francisco, California,

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where he builds open source applications in Python and Swift.

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Matt spoke at EuroPython on FullStackPython and PyCon about virtual ENTs and web app deployments.

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He created the Underwear Library hosted on PyPI and writes FullStackPython to help fellow developers learn how to build

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and deploy their WSGI-powered web applications.

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Matt, welcome to the show.

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Thanks for having me, Michael.

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Yeah, I'm really glad you're here.

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We're going to talk about some awesome deployment stuff based on your new book that you wrote.

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So before we get into deployments and that sort of thing, let's start from the beginning.

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What's your story?

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How do you get into programming in Python?

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Yeah, sure.

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So I've actually been programming for a long time.

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I took four years of computer science in high school.

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I was very fortunate to have extensive computer science classes in high school.

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And I'm a strong believer that that needs to be expanded throughout the United States.

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And then through that, I got into computer science in college at James Madison University.

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And then I did my master's in computer science at Virginia Tech.

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So I've studied computer science for a long time, got a great foundation, and then became a professional programmer as soon as I graduated from college.

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So that pretty much led me into the Java world, which was a bit away from where I am now with the Python scene.

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Was your education in Java?

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Is that how you ended up down that path in the beginning?

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Yeah.

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Well, it was a combination of C, C++, and Java.

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I think most people go into C++ and they learn a lot about the underlying data structures and pointers and all that stuff.

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And I just found at the time when I discovered Java that it was great to not have to think about a lot of the lower level details.

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And so for me, I just kind of naturally gravitated towards Java also because that's where all the jobs were going.

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And so I sort of grabbed onto that and had enough experience in the different languages that I could kind of switch back and forth when necessary.

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Yeah, very cool.

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Okay, so you got a job in Java and somehow you made your way over to Python.

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Yeah, so the gist is I was doing Java development on actually a military project for the Department of Defense.

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And I just realized that we had so many Java developers on our team.

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And I would go home at night and I was like, I was still trying to learn more and more about programming.

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And when I came across Python and I started teaching myself Python, I realized in a couple hours of working on side projects, I felt more productive than an entire day at the office.

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And I just thought, wow, this is something that I think is really powerful as a language, as an ecosystem.

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And I wanted to hang my hat on that.

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So I started getting on projects that were more based in Python, or I would, for example, write scripts that were in Python for a Java project.

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And that was kind of my introduction to that world.

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Yeah, that's really cool.

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That's both exciting and somewhat regretful.

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Like, why didn't you do it earlier is one of the feelings I personally had coming from C++, which I spent a lot of time working on and perfecting to just leave in the dust.

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Yeah, but it makes you appreciate it, right?

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I mean, every time you don't have to handle pointers or you have a built-in data structure, a dictionary, or a list, you really appreciate that you don't have to resize that array.

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You can use the built-in data structure, and it's so much more productive.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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All that stuff is way more appreciated, at least from my perspective.

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Yeah.

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Awesome.

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So why don't you tell me a little bit about Fullstack Python?

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Sure.

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So a few years ago, 2012, I was working on a bunch of different Python projects, consulting projects, and I was working with many junior developers, and they kept asking me questions.

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They would send me an email, and I would write these long, detailed emails about how a WSGI server operates or what the difference between Django and Flask was.

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And one of my colleagues said, you really should actually publish this.

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It's like, you should put it out there, at least just on a website where other people can read it.

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And that was pretty much the start of Fullstack Python.

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I took a Christmas break where I had a week off, and I just started writing.

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And I pretty much pulled in a lot of what I had from emails to just create this original site that I just kind of added to day by day, and it just kept growing.

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So that was the very origin of the site was, hey, people might be interested in this information.

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And lo and behold, I started getting readers.

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So that was the very beginning of it.

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So how many articles or topics did you have out of your email before you had to start writing for Fullstack Python?

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Yeah, so a lot of it was just around web frameworks, and especially around deployments, because I would deploy a lot of applications to just a basic server, because many of the consulting engagements I was on, they didn't have existing Python projects.

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So they needed someone who was a quote unquote, full stack developer.

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I know that's like a much maligned term.

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A lot of developers don't like the term full stack.

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But I felt like it actually really did apply.

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And I'm kind of stuck with the name now.

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And I don't know, I kind of like it.

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So yeah, so I basically that was the original quote unquote, full stack was the web frameworks and the deployments and the servers and that sort of thing itself.

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Yeah, that's really awesome.

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Your book that you wrote, what's the title?

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So it's the full stack Python guide to deployments.

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Right.

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So this is basically taking all of your guidance and stuff around the Python web frameworks and just focusing on the deployment side of the story.

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So it kind of assumes that you're a competent developer, you've written this web app.

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And now what, right?

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Yeah.

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So I really recommend this to people.

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The way that this came about was I kept getting emails from people who were reading full stack Python.

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And they're like, hey, this is really great.

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Love full stack Python.

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But it's super high level.

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And you link to all these tutorials.

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But they're all sort of just they're different tutorials.

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They're mixed and match.

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And it was really hard for someone to just without any knowledge of deployment, just get started and figure out without reading 50 different articles, like how to actually do a deployment from start to finish.

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And some of these things are super well, I wouldn't say they're super basic.

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Like if you don't know how to do them, I wouldn't feel bad about it.

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But it's just something like walking through provisioning a virtual private server that can be super confusing the first time you do it.

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So in the book, I actually walk through like, here's how you provision a server on Linode and actually start it up.

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Yeah, that makes total sense.

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It's, you know, I do professional training for developers for part of my job.

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And I get questions like, how can I even host my pyramid web app or, you know, whatever type of web app you've created.

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Like some people who live and breathe the web world, it's like, well, obviously you create this kind of server or that kind of server.

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But if you're maybe like a data scientist or you're transitioning or you've been in Q&A and you're starting to become a developer, like those are hard choices.

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And I think part of the guidance of just, hey, look, choose this type of hosting over that type of hosting alone is actually really valuable.

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Yeah.

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And I think you completely touched on it.

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If you're a data scientist or you're a coding bootcamp graduate or you're just out of undergrad or maybe an intern, you've never been exposed to these concepts before because they're not things.

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That are typically taught in computer science program.

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And often deployments are not touched on in a coding bootcamp.

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And so just the fundamentals, just the foundational level of how do you get a server?

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How do you create public private keys?

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That's completely unknown.

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And that's pretty much how I wrote the book was I don't assume that you know any of this stuff.

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And we're going to walk through it step by step.

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Yeah, that's really cool.

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I think that's a good place to start.

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You have this picture on deploypython.com.

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I read at the bottom of the homepage.

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And it's kind of like a visual architectural based version of a table of contents.

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Yeah.

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It's really awesome.

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I really love that picture.

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I saw it.

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So it's got like a server and a virtual machine and all the various moving parts sort of sketched out in architecture, but also showing the chapters.

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And you kind of make your way through this architectural diagram, right?

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Yeah, exactly.

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So I start each chapter with the same diagram.

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And I highlight there's a specific color for each chapter.

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So like, for example, I think it's chapter three with the operating systems is like a shade of yellow.

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And so I highlight here's what we're working on in this chapter.

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And the idea is you start out with this like kind of high level conceptual idea of roughly what we're working on.

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And maybe that's on your own server or that's a hosted service like GitHub or something like that.

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But you at least have an image in your mind of what we're going to be working on.

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And I think for people that are just starting in this space, it actually can be super confusing.

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Like, well, okay, I have a Git repository.

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But is that like local on my computer?

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Or is that on GitHub?

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And how do they relate?

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And where does the virtual private server sit?

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So that's what I tried to clarify a bit with the picture that's on deploypython.com.

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It's just here's all the things we're going to walk through.

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And here's how they look.

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Yeah, I think it's great to have a visual way to see what you're going to learn like that architecturally.

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Yeah, I mean, actually, that came from a lot of this came from a talk I gave at Europython in Berlin in 2014 called Full Stack Python, where I pretty much had a picture like this.

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And I walked through conceptually what the full stack of a Python deployment is.

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And the feedback from people was like, that talk would have been really hard to follow if not for the visuals.

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So I thought, okay, obviously, these visuals are powerful.

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And I should continue on with that.

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And I've been trying to add even more to them to fullstackpython.com as I go along.

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Yeah, that's excellent.

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And I'm sure that talk is actually on YouTube somewhere, right?

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Yeah, yeah, it totally is.

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If you do Europython, Full Stack Python, my talk comes up.

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Actually, if you do Google for Full Stack Python, Kate Hedleston gave a really great talk as well at PyCon.

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And I believe it was 2014 that kind of walks through some of the same concepts.

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Yeah, excellent.

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I'll put that in the show notes.

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Yeah, so let's talk about servers first.

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You're using Linode for your hosts here, yeah?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And it's kind of, I think maybe it's a little bit confusing in the book because I say, well, we're going to deploy this application.

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And actually, before we kind of dive into the servers, I actually have an appendix where we create an application.

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I say, like, if you've already got an application, great.

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Like, let's figure out how to deploy it.

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You can pretty much follow the steps in each chapter and you start out with the server.

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And if you don't have an application, like, here is a full tutorial.

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It's the appendix C in the book where I walk through an entire open source application, Flask application, that has all of the pieces that we need.

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Like, it has a task queue.

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It has all these application dependencies and whatnot.

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It's a Flask app.

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And so the idea is, like, if you, before we even get started with the server, if you've got an application, great.

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If you don't, hey, you might want to go and read appendix C if you want to know about this application before we deploy it.

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Yeah, very cool.

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At minimum, get cloned so you have something to go deploy, right?

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Yeah, yeah, totally.

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And, I mean, the great part is, like, I actually wrote that content on the Twilio blog, which Twilio is my current employer.

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And so that appendix has been, you know, a lot of people have followed along with that and given me feedback on it.

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So it's a pretty good tutorial just to include as an appendix if you are trying to build a Flask application.

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Yeah, excellent.

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Yeah, let's come back to talking about what you do at Twilio because that sounds interesting.

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But Linode.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So the idea behind really how we get started in this is, like, okay, we need to deploy our application somewhere.

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That can't just be living on your laptop.

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Like, people on the internet need to access that.

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And so we get a $10 a month server on Linode.

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And I walk through the steps of, like, how to actually provision that.

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And then once we provision it, we boot it up and we create a public-private key and we lock down the server against unauthorized attempts to log in.

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So we disallow the root user from being a login account.

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We create a separate login account.

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We disable password authentication.

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We only have public-key infrastructure authentication.

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And then we set up firewalls and automatic upgrades.

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And these things will not completely secure a server, but they're the good first steps that I would always recommend people do to every single server that they're starting up.

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You know, one thing that my current experience absolutely backs this up, but just sort of the way the cloud and sort of this type of hosting has been going, you know, I was a little surprised you weren't using, like, Ubuntu machines on EC2.

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Yeah, sure.

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So I think, you know, I really like Amazon Web Services, but I also feel like it's almost overused for a lot of deployments.

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Like, you can actually take a virtual private server and scale that up to hacker news traffic if you configure it properly.

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And I think that's one of those things where, like, you can rack up a huge bill deploying to Amazon Web Services if you're not careful.

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Whereas, like, the idea behind this was, like, let's learn all the pieces that you need in order to actually deploy a Python application.

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And we're going to do that within the confines of a single virtual private server.

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It's a much more controlled environment for the audience of the book, which is really people who are unfamiliar with deployments.

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But I totally think you're right, and there could be an entire separate book that's like, okay, cool, you've learned the gist of deploying web applications.

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Now let's actually go and deploy this on a cloud-based infrastructure.

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Or I guess you'd call it, like, an infrastructure-as-a-service provider like Rackspace or Amazon or Azure.

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Right.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So I think probably the majority of people out there would be better served by using something like Linode or DigitalOcean.

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The pricing is so straightforward, and the setup is so easy and so quick.

00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:44.600
And EC2 is more, you know, it's something that works for places like Netflix, which are doing amazing things, but it's, like, so large-scale.

00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:51.100
And when you're getting started, you know, it seems like it used to be the place to start, but maybe it's not the good starting point.

00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:52.200
Maybe it's a place to grow into.

00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.100
Yeah, I think it might be something to grow into.

00:16:55.100 --> 00:17:00.660
I just really wanted to try to cut down the complexity so that everyone felt like they could follow along in the book.

00:17:00.660 --> 00:17:10.880
And I think that if you understand the concepts in this book, you can probably also move on and pick up the Amazon Web Services side to it.

00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:14.060
But you're totally right in that it's confusing on some of the pricing.

00:17:14.860 --> 00:17:22.620
And I also have heard a lot of horror stories from new developers that said, like, oh, I accidentally spun up, like, 20 servers, and I got a bill for $1,000 this month.

00:17:22.620 --> 00:17:23.460
And I'm like, oh, no.

00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:27.660
Like, I really, really don't want that to happen to people and have them be afraid of doing deployments.

00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:33.000
It's like, if you get a bill for $10 a month, that should be the maximum amount that you get out of this.

00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:33.320
Right.

00:17:33.320 --> 00:17:35.080
It's much more predictable over in those places.

00:17:35.080 --> 00:17:35.660
Very cool.

00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:35.940
Exactly.

00:17:35.940 --> 00:17:43.500
So when you're talking about locking down the servers, one thing that I thought was pretty cool that you recommend is using something called fail-to-ban.

00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:44.980
Yeah, sure.

00:17:45.700 --> 00:17:50.500
Yeah, so fail-to-ban is essentially just a package on Ubuntu.

00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:59.700
I believe it's on many of the other distributions as well, which essentially sets certain parameters like time-based failed logins.

00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:11.740
So if from a certain IP address there are failed login attempts, it will prevent any logins from that IP address for, for example, like the next 30 minutes.

00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:19.520
So the idea would be it provides just enough, like just enough of a prevention that someone who is trying to log into that server.

00:18:19.520 --> 00:18:32.400
Now, granted, they can't do a password-based login anyway after it's secured down, but it's just one other step of basically just locking down the server that will prevent some of those unauthorized attempts.

00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.380
Right.

00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:39.380
And while you're going through this process, you know, your machine, if it is on the internet, it is basically under attack.

00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:40.000
Right.

00:18:40.060 --> 00:18:46.020
And so having it sort of password login safe for a while is still something you want to consider.

00:18:46.020 --> 00:18:47.380
Yeah.

00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:55.380
And, you know, I think part of it, too, is just exposing readers to some of these tools and concepts that they have at their disposals.

00:18:55.380 --> 00:19:03.860
I think that you could write, and I'm sure there are entire books written about fail-to-ban or about UFW, which is the firewall tool that we use.

00:19:04.100 --> 00:19:14.500
But just knowing that they're there and that you've set the basic parameters up, I think is enough to get people started, but not dwell on those subjects so they can continue on and actually get the deployment done.

00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:15.160
Right.

00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:15.340
Yeah.

00:19:15.340 --> 00:19:21.620
The other thing that I made a note of in this chapter when I was reading your book is UFW or uncomplicated firewall.

00:19:22.060 --> 00:19:25.640
That thing is so easy to set up, and it's great.

00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.020
Oh, I mean, I was...

00:19:28.020 --> 00:19:31.420
I actually wrote a whole section on, like, setting up IP tables.

00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:43.600
And then when I started doing some research, I realized in Ubuntu there is this uncomplicated firewall, and I was like, oh, wow, this does everything that I was trying to show off in IP tables.

00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:44.900
It's so much easier.

00:19:44.900 --> 00:19:47.240
I think it'll just simplify the deployment process.

00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:48.800
So that's pretty much what I went with.

00:19:48.800 --> 00:19:49.400
Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.040
I would say it's even uncomplicated.

00:19:51.040 --> 00:19:51.640
It's great.

00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:52.340
Yeah.

00:19:53.080 --> 00:20:02.200
So then basically for the rest of the book, you said, look, you could sit down and manually type these out at the command line, but that doesn't make a lot of sense.

00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:03.540
Like, let's make this reproducible.

00:20:03.540 --> 00:20:07.820
And so the next thing you bring up is actually Ansible and playbooks, right?

00:20:07.820 --> 00:20:08.980
Yeah.

00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:12.000
So, well, there's Fabric and there's Ansible.

00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:23.260
And so the idea is I think that going through and manually doing deployment and reading through what steps you're taking is really important for the learning process.

00:20:23.260 --> 00:20:27.500
But obviously you're not going to do this every time you have a deployment.

00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:34.600
So you're going to want to automate the entire process so that you can deploy as many web applications in the future as you want.

00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:39.120
And you can modify the deployment scripts so that they're custom built for your applications.

00:20:39.120 --> 00:20:49.980
And so every single chapter in the book, so starting with chapter two, which is the service chapter, we do the manual steps and I explain manual, like what you're doing in those manual steps.

00:20:49.980 --> 00:21:02.360
And then I go into a sort of second section of the chapter, which is here's how we automate the manual steps that we just did with either Fabric or Ansible.

00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:08.660
And so starting in chapter three, we have Ansible playbooks that automate everything that we're building on top of.

00:21:08.660 --> 00:21:17.420
And actually those, all of those, that, that playbook, that Ansible playbook is actually all open source on GitHub under one of the GitHub repos that I have.

00:21:17.420 --> 00:21:19.200
Okay. Yeah. Excellent.

00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.620
We'll put that out there on the show notes as well.

00:21:21.620 --> 00:21:22.780
Yeah. Great.

00:21:22.780 --> 00:21:24.040
Yeah. I think you're right.

00:21:24.040 --> 00:21:37.160
You know, it's, this is one of the things where if you've got time and you haven't deployed your, you haven't made your, your site live or whatever, it's fine to just sit there and fiddle with a server until you get it working.

00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:45.220
But if something goes wrong, especially, you know, you'd need to rebuild the machine or move it or, or scale it out or something.

00:21:45.220 --> 00:21:48.520
And you have got to do that under some high stress situation.

00:21:48.520 --> 00:21:55.180
Like the website is down and there's lots of traffic doing that by hand, you know, it's just extremely stressful.

00:21:55.180 --> 00:22:00.600
And if it's automated, you push a button a few minutes later, the life, you know, life is good again.

00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:01.720
It's definitely recommended.

00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:14.480
This episode is brought to you by Hired.

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Visit Hired.com slash Talk Python To Me and answer the call.

00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:13.040
Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:13.040 --> 00:23:22.800
I mean, no large scale, or even I would say for the most part, small scale website or web application really is going to do a manual deployment.

00:23:23.060 --> 00:23:24.340
It's just so time consuming.

00:23:24.340 --> 00:23:31.060
And the last thing you want is to make all these code changes and then all of a sudden be like, oh, it's going to take me 20 minutes to deploy all this stuff.

00:23:31.060 --> 00:23:34.320
Man, I'll just do it tomorrow because I don't feel like doing it right now.

00:23:34.320 --> 00:23:34.760
Right.

00:23:34.860 --> 00:23:41.900
You get what you can get with some of those large enterprises where it's like they deploy every six months and they're down for the weekend.

00:23:41.900 --> 00:23:42.820
Right.

00:23:42.820 --> 00:23:43.380
Exactly.

00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:44.720
Something insane like that, right?

00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.540
Yeah.

00:23:45.540 --> 00:23:48.480
No, you should be able to just deploy immediately as soon as you make changes.

00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:52.700
And so that's part of what the automating each step is.

00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:57.860
And almost, I don't really call it out like this, but it's almost like if you're playing a video game and you hit a checkpoint.

00:23:58.320 --> 00:24:03.160
And if you mess up or die or whatever, you go back to that checkpoint.

00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.320
And that's kind of how I see the automated steps at each chapter.

00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:14.260
When you're finished with automating that chapter, you know you can always fall back to that checkpoint if you mess something up in the next chapter.

00:24:14.260 --> 00:24:15.180
Yeah.

00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:16.280
I think of it the same way.

00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.860
So now we're getting in your sort of steps along the way.

00:24:20.860 --> 00:24:21.820
We've got the server.

00:24:21.820 --> 00:24:24.600
Well, the server is really set up by Linode.

00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:26.680
But we've got the VM running in their machine.

00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:28.440
We've got the Ansible Playbook.

00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:31.740
Now it's time to start serving some stuff, right?

00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:33.440
So you start with Nginx.

00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:34.780
Yeah.

00:24:34.780 --> 00:24:45.440
So one of the key ideas I try to drive home in the book is like if you look at the picture on deploypython.com, it's all concepts.

00:24:46.120 --> 00:24:55.020
So a web server is just a conceptual idea of serving, of receiving and responding to HTTP requests.

00:24:55.020 --> 00:25:01.240
But the actual implementation of these things is something that is different.

00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:06.260
Like Nginx or the Apache web server or Microsoft has IIS.

00:25:06.260 --> 00:25:10.140
Like these are implementations of a conceptual idea called the web server.

00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.300
So each chapter actually has two pictures.

00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:23.620
It has the conceptual idea that we are implementing and then the actual implementation of that, which is in starting in chapter four, Nginx.

00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:26.220
So yeah, so we set up and install Nginx.

00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:29.040
There's actually a way to do it.

00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:29.860
I walked through.

00:25:29.860 --> 00:25:34.820
This was one thing I went back and forth on was do I do HTTPS only, which I kind of favored.

00:25:34.820 --> 00:25:37.840
I wrote an initial draft with just HTTPS.

00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:39.080
We set up an SSL cert.

00:25:39.620 --> 00:25:45.520
And the feedback from one of my reviewers was like, you know, I think that's awesome, but I really just want to get this started.

00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:48.860
Like I just want to make sure this thing works and is serving up HTTP requests.

00:25:48.860 --> 00:25:55.880
And so I actually have a bit of a fork in the road, which is you can do this either with just HTTP or with HTTPS.

00:25:56.280 --> 00:26:00.680
And I do caveat that like if you're doing a web application, you really should do it over HTTPS.

00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:04.500
Yeah, it is a little more work, but it's definitely recommended.

00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:10.900
I was reading somewhere that Google is going to start downgrading the rank of sites that are not SSL.

00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:14.520
So there's one more reason to run it over SSL, right?

00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:23.940
Yeah, and I mean, in today's world, SSL connections, they used to be way slower than non-encrypted connections, but they're just a little bit slower now.

00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:25.760
So I think that's what Google is trying to do.

00:26:25.760 --> 00:26:35.840
It's basically saying, hey, we know your site's a little bit slower, but we're going to give you the benefit of the doubt because it is encrypted that will improve your page rank score, something like that.

00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:37.800
That's my guess about what Google is doing there.

00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:38.940
Yeah, I agree.

00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:42.320
So I think Nginx is a pretty safe bet.

00:26:42.320 --> 00:26:46.800
It seems like it's kind of been taking at least the Python world by storm the last few years.

00:26:46.800 --> 00:26:51.400
Yeah, I mean, I've used Apache so many times in the past.

00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:56.720
Certainly, if you're comfortable with Apache, there's no reason why you couldn't use it in this case.

00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:01.200
It's a very solid, stable, mature platform or implementation.

00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:05.180
I just, you know, Nginx seems to be what the Python community has.

00:27:05.180 --> 00:27:10.260
I would say a good percentage of the Python community has said, yeah, this is something that works really well.

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.260
And we're setting it up in two different ways.

00:27:13.260 --> 00:27:15.820
One is it's actually serving up the static content.

00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:29.240
So things like the JavaScript files, the images, the CSS, but it's also serving as a reverse proxy to the WSGI server, the web server gateway interface, which is the Python web server that's serving up your application.

00:27:29.760 --> 00:27:42.060
And so we actually have two configurations within our larger configuration, one to handle the regular web server requests, the static files, if you will, and then the other part, which is serving as a reverse proxy.

00:27:42.060 --> 00:27:47.060
And I just felt like Nginx configuration for that was pretty simple and straightforward.

00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:54.800
And I thought maybe a little bit easier than the, what can be fairly lengthy, large configuration files that come with Apache.

00:27:54.800 --> 00:27:55.760
Yeah.

00:27:55.760 --> 00:27:59.200
And like you said, it's, it's pretty mainstream in the Python world these days.

00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:00.400
Very cool.

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.920
So then the next thing you, you talk about, I've got this server.

00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:05.080
It has a web server.

00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:06.040
It can serve things.

00:28:06.040 --> 00:28:08.140
Let's get some things on there, right?

00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:09.700
Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:09.700 --> 00:28:12.220
So that, that kind of goes into the, the source code.

00:28:12.220 --> 00:28:15.700
So we create a deploy key.

00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:28.060
So the idea behind a deploy key is it's like a, a read only key so that you can pull down your changes to your production server, but you can't make changes in production and push them back.

00:28:28.060 --> 00:28:33.580
It's good from a bit from a security standpoint, but that's really not the main thing.

00:28:33.580 --> 00:28:41.940
The main thing is the, the good practice of not making changes in production that are sort of different from your development environment.

00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:48.040
So it's a one way, pull down the source code, pull down your static files, and then you start serving that with the web server.

00:28:48.040 --> 00:28:48.760
Right.

00:28:48.760 --> 00:29:00.380
So production is something that you push to, not you frantically log in over SSH, nano some files and save them back and then try to get that balanced across your, your cluster or something.

00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:00.680
Right.

00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:01.420
Yeah.

00:29:01.420 --> 00:29:04.560
Cause otherwise your development environment is not going to match your production environment.

00:29:04.560 --> 00:29:09.960
And, and it's just, that's, that's, that's more headaches than most people want to deal with.

00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:14.480
It's better just to get, pull down your changes to the production server and not go the other way.

00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:15.380
Right.

00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:18.220
And so you had to pick up concrete source control system.

00:29:18.220 --> 00:29:20.180
So you used what visual source safe?

00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:22.340
Uh, I used, oh, I see.

00:29:22.340 --> 00:29:24.060
Oh, wow.

00:29:24.060 --> 00:29:27.460
I was like, you must have glazed over that chapter.

00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:29.380
Maybe, maybe Git is too common now.

00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:29.860
I don't know.

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.180
No, I mean, Git is just totally taken over.

00:29:32.180 --> 00:29:32.380
Right.

00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:33.040
And you used GitHub.

00:29:33.040 --> 00:29:33.700
It is totally taken over.

00:29:33.700 --> 00:29:35.040
GitHub in your example, right?

00:29:35.040 --> 00:29:35.840
Yeah.

00:29:35.840 --> 00:29:38.720
So I used GitHub, obviously, you know, they have the free accounts.

00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:40.820
Um, certainly could have used Bitbucket there.

00:29:40.820 --> 00:29:43.700
Um, but I've used GitHub, for a long time now.

00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:47.240
Um, and you know, I've used many different version control systems.

00:29:47.240 --> 00:30:01.640
I unfortunately, I, unfortunately, at one point used IBM's clear case, in my very first job, which was exceedingly painful, then went a little bit better with SVN and then came upon Git, a while back.

00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:05.840
And I've just never, never looked back to, those other systems.

00:30:05.840 --> 00:30:07.680
So, so that's what we use in this book.

00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:15.480
I, I think that, Git can be conceptually a bit confusing for people that are, are new to software development, which once you kind of get the hang of it.

00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.180
Uh, and also there's a ton of great resources that are out there for, for new people.

00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:21.580
Um, I think that's just the way to go right now.

00:30:21.580 --> 00:30:21.980
Yeah.

00:30:21.980 --> 00:30:22.940
I love Git too.

00:30:22.940 --> 00:30:29.300
And I have not looked back, but it is slightly more complicated than some of the other systems to get started, I think.

00:30:29.300 --> 00:30:31.240
But you know, it's, it's so pervasive.

00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.040
Like it would make, it's definitely the right choice.

00:30:34.040 --> 00:30:39.000
So then you wanted to set up some of the different tiers for your system, right?

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.900
So you actually set up Redis and Postgre, right?

00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:43.900
How's that fit into the story here?

00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:45.000
Yeah, sure.

00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:54.280
So, the idea is, well, most web applications, including the example one I have in the appendix is, backed by a relational database.

00:30:54.280 --> 00:31:02.880
It's just stable, you know, stable, mature technology, that kind of houses the majority of your data, or at least your transactional data.

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:09.860
Um, but also, you know, I, I hesitate a little bit to call Redis like a no SQL data store.

00:31:09.860 --> 00:31:11.080
I guess it kind of fits.

00:31:11.080 --> 00:31:14.300
It's a key value pair store, and it's all in memory.

00:31:14.840 --> 00:31:21.280
Um, but I use that for some of the, like in the example application, like counting votes.

00:31:21.280 --> 00:31:23.940
So really fast data that's coming in.

00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:31.400
Um, I temporarily store in memory just because you could have hundreds of thousands of votes coming in, at the same time.

00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:35.820
So, we go ahead and set up both of those things in the sixth chapter.

00:31:35.820 --> 00:31:40.740
And the idea is like most web applications now are using some sort of relational backend.

00:31:40.740 --> 00:31:45.040
Um, you know, whether that's, my SQL or Postgres or whatever, whatever have you.

00:31:45.040 --> 00:31:48.300
Uh, those are probably the two main ones I've used both of them.

00:31:48.300 --> 00:31:49.040
I've used Oracle.

00:31:49.040 --> 00:31:51.040
Um, I tend to go with Postgres now.

00:31:51.040 --> 00:31:56.820
Uh, and then there's some sort of no SQL data store, maybe an in-memory data store like Redis.

00:31:56.820 --> 00:32:05.800
I just find that like Redis, I set it up with every single project because it just comes in handy for session data or for just counting things.

00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:12.380
Or if I have a query that is just really hammering the database, I'll just cache that in Redis and it just comes in handy.

00:32:12.380 --> 00:32:22.320
As long as you remember that, like, if you reboot the server, that everything is going to get cleared out of Redis, then it's pretty safe bet that it'll come in handy on almost every project.

00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:23.300
Yeah, I agree.

00:32:23.300 --> 00:32:32.880
At least in that use case, I'd kind of hesitate to throw Redis into the NoSQL bucket because if you're not really saving, it's more like a cache server, distributed cache server.

00:32:33.540 --> 00:32:37.820
But yeah, super good use, super easy to use from Python, right?

00:32:37.820 --> 00:32:43.720
Yeah, I think conceptually the idea I was trying to get across was like, these are, this is not an either or proposition.

00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:48.840
Like the idea that like, if you use MongoDB, you're not going to be using any other type of data store.

00:32:48.840 --> 00:32:50.260
Like that doesn't really make sense.

00:32:50.260 --> 00:32:55.420
Like you use the best tools that are available and sometimes you need multiple tools in order to accomplish that.

00:32:55.420 --> 00:33:06.480
And I wanted something that was, more than just a standard relational database, to make this chapter a little bit beefier to show that like, there's, there's multiple ways that you can sort data on this, in this application.

00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:07.040
Yeah.

00:33:07.040 --> 00:33:07.360
Excellent.

00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:13.360
And your example, you just set this up all on the same server, but in practice it would be other, other machines most likely.

00:33:13.800 --> 00:33:14.200
Yeah.

00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:19.000
And so that actually kind of brings up like a larger point, which is, I, I do make updates to the book.

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.860
I've already put out my first update based on reader feedback.

00:33:21.860 --> 00:33:26.620
Um, just cleaning up some typos, cleaning up some confusing sentences, those sorts of things.

00:33:26.620 --> 00:33:33.700
But if people are like, Hey, I've done the whole deployment and I really want to separate this out into two separate virtual private servers.

00:33:33.700 --> 00:33:38.940
Um, that, that is a very good first step if you're trying to sort of scale up your application.

00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:46.220
Uh, and so I may actually create a separate chapter just that walks through the process of like, okay, you have your deployment on a single server.

00:33:46.220 --> 00:33:54.980
How would you separate out, you know, your relational database, and whatever else have you, and then connect those in a secure way to your, web server.

00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:56.920
I think, that might make a lot of sense.

00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:58.300
That would make a lot of sense.

00:33:58.300 --> 00:34:02.500
I mean, putting them on separate servers and having them talk to each other, super easy.

00:34:02.500 --> 00:34:07.220
The words in a secure way that that's where the deployment story starts.

00:34:07.220 --> 00:34:10.380
You got to have a little more experience with the infrastructure you're working with.

00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:10.600
Right.

00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:11.400
Yeah.

00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:15.580
And in an early version of the book, like I had actually two separate servers.

00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:28.500
And what I realized was I spent so much time explaining why in this, in this chapter deploying, these databases that like, okay, well, we need to make sure that, that these connections, the connection is encrypted.

00:34:28.680 --> 00:34:34.380
And we need to make sure that the database server can only talk to, you know, your web server.

00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:42.160
And, you know, here's how, like, I just, I just felt like there was a bit more complexity there that I didn't want to glaze over.

00:34:42.260 --> 00:34:50.620
Cause I didn't want to leave people thinking like, okay, I've set my server up, like my two servers up and they're, you know, they're, they're all safe and secure when in reality they weren't.

00:34:50.620 --> 00:35:00.260
So I really felt like that was going to have to be a separate chapter in order for people to learn the, I'd say like kind of the right way to, to handle that when you're separating out to two separate servers.

00:35:00.260 --> 00:35:15.320
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00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:18.060
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00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:57.780
Yeah.

00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:04.680
I mean, there's been headline, various database servers that have been, you know, just left wide open.

00:36:04.680 --> 00:36:07.500
People open the ports and had no authentication.

00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:08.520
And guess what?

00:36:08.520 --> 00:36:14.560
There's 600,000 instances of this particular database out there that people could just read because people made a mistake.

00:36:14.560 --> 00:36:15.280
Oh, oops.

00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:17.100
Did you forget to lock this down?

00:36:17.100 --> 00:36:18.240
Exactly.

00:36:18.240 --> 00:36:29.460
And that kind of goes to, you know, back to our point about Amazon Web Services is that, you know, a lot of people think that those, those, the ports on Amazon Web Services are secure.

00:36:29.560 --> 00:36:38.180
And they're really not like, unless you manually secure different EC2 instances, you're actually going to open up a lot of security vulnerabilities.

00:36:38.180 --> 00:36:39.480
Right.

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.440
Maybe you, you've got to go to your security group and set up some sort of, virtual, right.

00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:49.000
Only these machines in the security group can talk to these others in this other security group.

00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:57.160
But when you're new and you're just trying to get a website up, like that's not something you even know exists, but let alone, you know, let alone that you could change it and configure it.

00:36:57.160 --> 00:36:57.340
Right.

00:36:57.940 --> 00:36:58.560
Yeah, exactly.

00:36:58.560 --> 00:37:12.540
I mean, there's a fine line between, I wanted to teach as many concepts as possible, but I also didn't want people to leave thinking, leave the book thinking, yeah, I know what I need to know about all these topics, but have some gaping hole in their knowledge that is actually going to come back to bite them later.

00:37:12.540 --> 00:37:21.380
And I felt like just deploying on a single server that if you really need to scale it, you can actually, you can actually take the server and get a $20 server instead of a $10 server.

00:37:21.380 --> 00:37:24.580
And that will perform better, just by a vertical scaling.

00:37:24.580 --> 00:37:31.280
And that I think is probably going to be better for a lot of the readers, than, than adding additional complexity, that they don't know about.

00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:31.960
Yeah, absolutely.

00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:40.280
I think, you know, for the folks who this book is aimed for vertical scaling versus horizontal scaling is probably the right way to go in the beginning.

00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:40.600
Right.

00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:42.000
Yeah, exactly.

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:51.940
And the idea is like, hopefully, I, as I do in, as I try to do in my, in my job, like I inspire and equip developers to want to learn more about these subjects.

00:37:52.120 --> 00:38:03.200
Like they feel like they have a grasp on the basics and they can take that and, and learn more themselves based on all of the resources that are out there, either in other books or on the web, whatever have you.

00:38:03.200 --> 00:38:12.140
And they'll, but they won't get bitten in the meantime by some, you know, gaping hole in their knowledge that really kind of screws them on their initial deployment.

00:38:13.140 --> 00:38:13.580
Okay.

00:38:13.580 --> 00:38:20.480
So I think it's, you know, following your architectural path here, I think it's time to actually get some Python stuff running, right?

00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:21.240
Yeah.

00:38:21.240 --> 00:38:22.100
Yeah, finally.

00:38:22.100 --> 00:38:30.860
And that I have to say, if I have like one major, major criticism of the book is like kind of how long it takes to get this WSGI server, up and running.

00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:33.600
Uh, but you know, this is just kind of how these things work.

00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:37.480
And, and, again, it's about, you know, learning as much as possible throughout the process.

00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:45.200
So, yeah, so, you know, after we set up the databases, we, set up our dependencies in a, in a virtual end.

00:38:45.200 --> 00:38:52.180
Uh, we install the dependencies from, PyPI and we actually get our WSGI server up and running.

00:38:52.180 --> 00:39:00.640
Now we run the WSGI server through supervisor so that we can, you know, start and stop it and make sure that it starts up in case we move the server and that sort of thing.

00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:11.060
But, yeah, and then we, I talked a bit about the interaction between, you know, virtual end and, supervisor and the WSGI server and the WSGI server we set up in this case is, is green unicorn.

00:39:11.060 --> 00:39:18.980
Um, so those, those different pieces to it, basically establish the Python component, the major Python component of the application.

00:39:18.980 --> 00:39:20.080
Yeah.

00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:26.380
And I think, you know, the fact that you're using virtual environments here is kind of helping people down the right path, right?

00:39:26.380 --> 00:39:36.160
So you probably have one server and one website and you don't necessarily need a virtual environment yet, but as things grow, you maybe want to adopt it.

00:39:36.160 --> 00:39:36.340
Right.

00:39:36.340 --> 00:39:42.260
So just starting from the beginning, it's pretty easy to set up a virtual environment, especially with the Ansible script and so on.

00:39:42.260 --> 00:39:43.220
Yeah, exactly.

00:39:43.220 --> 00:39:45.180
You might as well bring it into the conversation.

00:39:45.180 --> 00:39:51.840
And, and I didn't want to have, I mean, if you've done the other things, right, it's probably not as big of an issue, but I didn't want to have,

00:39:52.220 --> 00:40:01.860
or have to have, Python running as a route so that you can install the dependencies into the base installation of the operating systems, Python interpreter.

00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:10.160
So that was really what I was trying to avoid there was saying like, Hey, this is running, as a process under your deployer user or your supervisor user, whatever have you.

00:40:10.160 --> 00:40:11.160
Right.

00:40:11.160 --> 00:40:16.000
And in this particular setup, the, the users created the server there.

00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:29.520
Technically they can run stuff as a route and they can do sudo and they'll be fine, but I've certainly worked with people in environments where some of the developers don't get route access to the deployment machines and the production machines.

00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:33.040
And they'd still like to be able to, you know, configure their app or something.

00:40:33.040 --> 00:40:36.360
And this, you know, like you said, gets around the security limitations.

00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.040
So it's, it's nice in that regard.

00:40:38.040 --> 00:40:38.940
Yeah.

00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:40.240
I mean, it certainly gets around some of them.

00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.260
I mean, if you don't have any type of route access, then you can't run a web server on port 80.

00:40:45.260 --> 00:41:00.640
Um, so that'd be like one thing where, it should be that the, well, my guess is, and there's obviously many different ways you could set this up, but my guess is the system admins just locked down the route, but maybe gave sudo privileges to some sort of, sub account or something.

00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:01.120
Right.

00:41:01.120 --> 00:41:09.960
I think that, you know, the situation I'm thinking of, it was mostly, they didn't want people modifying the machine wide Python configuration more than anything.

00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.120
Right.

00:41:10.120 --> 00:41:10.740
Yeah.

00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:11.300
Yeah, exactly.

00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:13.540
And you get around with that, with this, in this case.

00:41:13.540 --> 00:41:14.560
Yeah, absolutely.

00:41:14.560 --> 00:41:18.280
So green unicorn, why'd you pick that?

00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:23.180
I, you know, I honestly, I've been using it for, for several years.

00:41:23.180 --> 00:41:27.580
Um, I think it's a fairly stable, default choice.

00:41:27.580 --> 00:41:30.760
Um, but I think there's a ton of other great whiskey servers out there.

00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:35.700
Um, and certainly if you're going the Apache route, mod, mod whiskey is, is a good route to go.

00:41:35.700 --> 00:41:39.640
Um, but it just, in this case, I thought the, the combination of green unicorn.

00:41:39.640 --> 00:41:47.820
And, and, and engine X just seemed to be the one that I was most comfortable with and the most comfortable teaching other people about.

00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:48.540
Right.

00:41:48.540 --> 00:41:48.780
Sure.

00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:49.660
That makes a lot of sense.

00:41:49.660 --> 00:41:52.400
The one that I've been using is micro whiskey.

00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:55.260
So that's, that's also been pretty good.

00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:56.500
Yeah, absolutely.

00:41:56.500 --> 00:42:04.720
And I've, I've read some, I've seen some of the, you know, you have to be careful about the benchmarks and stuff, but I've read some benchmarks that have said that that actually might be a faster whiskey server.

00:42:04.720 --> 00:42:06.500
Um, in, in many cases.

00:42:06.500 --> 00:42:07.440
Right.

00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:17.140
So, you know, going with the theme that not everybody is a web developer necessarily knows, maybe you want to just talk really quickly about what whiskey, the concept of whiskey itself.

00:42:17.140 --> 00:42:18.580
Yeah, sure.

00:42:18.680 --> 00:42:21.980
So, so that's web server gateway interface, WSGI.

00:42:21.980 --> 00:42:26.800
And the idea is like in the late nineties, there was a something.

00:42:27.020 --> 00:42:30.440
So Apache was the dominant web server back in the day.

00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:35.320
And someone wrote a, module for Apache called mod Python.

00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:37.420
And I use mod Python for a while.

00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:41.500
It was pretty much just a execute arbitrary Python code.

00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:43.620
And, that worked really well for a while.

00:42:43.620 --> 00:42:49.240
There were some security vulnerabilities, discovered in it and development on a kind of languished.

00:42:49.240 --> 00:42:58.160
So the Python community came together and created, a Python enhancement proposal of pep, PEP three, three, three, three, which created the whiskey standard.

00:42:58.160 --> 00:43:05.040
And, then there was a superseding one, which is PEP three, three, three, three.

00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:06.660
That's four threes.

00:43:06.660 --> 00:43:13.580
And that one just really was a simple update to say, like, we're, we're expanding this to include Python three.

00:43:13.580 --> 00:43:25.020
But the idea behind it is, and, and, and I have a kind of have a, some more background knowledge on this with the application dependencies page on, on full stack Python.

00:43:25.020 --> 00:43:42.320
But, the idea was like, there needs to be a standard, super simple way for a web, web application server, like, you know, cherry pie or mod whiskey or, green unicorn to execute, a web application.

00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:53.900
Uh, and so if you're using Django flask or bottle, one of these frameworks, they implement the application side of the whiskey standard, whereas your whiskey server implements the server side.

00:43:53.900 --> 00:44:09.560
And so there's a simple hook between, the server and the application in order to get that, up and running, so that you can deploy this in a standard way and you can mix and match different frameworks and servers that provides the interoperability, between, the whiskey servers and the whiskey applications.

00:44:09.560 --> 00:44:10.560
Yeah.

00:44:10.560 --> 00:44:11.480
That's, that's awesome.

00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:18.720
I mean, it basically means that we could switch between micro whiskey and green unicorn and it wouldn't be that big of a deal, right?

00:44:18.720 --> 00:44:20.080
Yeah, exactly.

00:44:20.080 --> 00:44:29.160
So if you're more comfortable with a different whiskey server, you know, by all means, you could use the exact same setup, but switch out the whiskey server and, and use the one you're most comfortable with.

00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:31.940
So we've got our app running.

00:44:31.940 --> 00:44:36.680
We've got our reverse proxy from Nginx over to green unicorn.

00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:45.300
Everything seems to be good, but now you want to start pushing changes to your production servers and you want to make sure that stuff is not broken before you do that.

00:44:46.160 --> 00:44:48.240
So that brings us to continuous integration.

00:44:48.240 --> 00:44:49.580
Yeah, sure.

00:44:49.580 --> 00:44:54.500
Um, and the, the only other quick thing I wanted to add was we do add a task queue as well in there.

00:44:54.500 --> 00:44:59.860
Um, task queues are for asynchronous data processing outside the HTTP request response cycle.

00:44:59.860 --> 00:45:03.560
So the idea here is like, that's such a common thing that people want to deploy.

00:45:03.560 --> 00:45:07.060
I just added celery as a part of our application deployment.

00:45:07.060 --> 00:45:09.880
Um, just so that people would be comfortable with adding that.

00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:15.820
I feel like that's something that is often left out of deployment tutorials that I thought really needs to be included in the book.

00:45:15.820 --> 00:45:17.540
Yeah, I think that's a good point.

00:45:17.540 --> 00:45:24.900
And, you know, some, some variation of an asynchronous queue can add so much scalability to your app in a really easy way, right?

00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:26.240
Yeah, exactly.

00:45:26.240 --> 00:45:32.220
It's like, oh, this, this, you know, this database query is taking too long, when someone hits the server.

00:45:32.220 --> 00:45:37.780
Well, just put it in an async task task queue and process it, you know, every 15 minutes or something like that.

00:45:37.780 --> 00:45:39.160
If the data doesn't change that often.

00:45:39.160 --> 00:45:52.780
Um, and that way you're getting, pretty much scalability by the design of your application and the deployment rather than, you know, having to get a bigger beefier server in order to somehow process that up, that database query even faster.

00:45:52.780 --> 00:45:54.140
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:45:54.140 --> 00:45:54.660
Okay.

00:45:54.660 --> 00:45:55.620
Continuous integration.

00:45:56.240 --> 00:45:56.680
Yeah.

00:45:56.680 --> 00:46:04.320
So the idea here is, again, many of the tutorials that I saw, like continuous integration was like this completely separate setup from doing a deployment.

00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:08.560
And so I thought, well, you know, this is really core to how applications are deployed.

00:46:08.740 --> 00:46:14.780
Um, so we take the Ansible configurations, I'm sorry, the Ansible playbooks that we've created throughout the book.

00:46:14.780 --> 00:46:19.160
And we set up Jenkins as the implementation of a continuous integration server.

00:46:19.160 --> 00:46:21.520
We do it on a separate virtual private server.

00:46:21.520 --> 00:46:26.620
So technically, if you do the whole setup, it's $20 a month because you have two separate servers.

00:46:27.020 --> 00:46:38.700
Um, but then we set up the whole configuration where when you push changes from your local development environment to GitHub, it has a service hook, or what's really, standardly called.

00:46:38.700 --> 00:46:45.360
Uh, most commonly called a web hook, web hook notifies Jenkins that, Hey, there's been some changes.

00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:50.300
So Jenkins pulls down the code, make sure that everything is working.

00:46:50.300 --> 00:46:56.700
And this is the part where you could put in your hook for like unit tests and integration tests, and fail the build if those don't work.

00:46:56.700 --> 00:47:03.900
Uh, and then if everything is good, we deploy the code to the, the, the actual server, the production server.

00:47:03.900 --> 00:47:09.980
And, then you get a handy little text message that says your application deployment is complete.

00:47:09.980 --> 00:47:12.180
So oftentimes we have these really long running deployments.

00:47:12.180 --> 00:47:16.500
Maybe they take 10 or 15 minutes to pull all the code and do the whole deployment and everything.

00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:26.140
Um, so maybe you want to step away from your, from your, server, I'm sorry, your, your computer go, you know, go, go grab a coffee or a beer or something like that.

00:47:26.140 --> 00:47:32.240
But then when it's all done, then you get a text message to your phone and it says, Hey, this is, this is all complete.

00:47:32.240 --> 00:47:33.180
Very cool.

00:47:33.180 --> 00:47:36.180
And of course, Twilio is the backend for the text message, right?

00:47:36.180 --> 00:47:37.140
Yeah.

00:47:37.140 --> 00:47:39.980
So, I mean, I, I really love, using Ansible.

00:47:39.980 --> 00:47:44.100
And, so I just, just kind of playing around with, some of the modules and stuff like that.

00:47:44.100 --> 00:47:57.620
So, so the Twilio modules like in, it's, it's a part of the standard, Ansible, if you do like a pip install Ansible, so you can just do, use the, use Twilio service with your credentials to send a text message.

00:47:57.620 --> 00:48:01.020
Um, so I actually wrote that, like a year, year and a half ago.

00:48:01.020 --> 00:48:01.780
Yeah.

00:48:01.780 --> 00:48:02.640
That's really cool.

00:48:02.640 --> 00:48:03.320
Yeah.

00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:05.260
It's kind of under the notifications package.

00:48:05.260 --> 00:48:12.440
Um, you could also do like, for example, I don't do this in the book, but you could do like an email or something like that, when the deployment's done.

00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:14.160
So there's all different types of notifications.

00:48:14.160 --> 00:48:19.740
Um, you can do a notification to Slack, super easy to add that in instead of the Twilio notification.

00:48:19.740 --> 00:48:25.100
But, I'm kind of partial to getting a text message because I like to walk away from my computer and the deployment is working for me.

00:48:25.100 --> 00:48:25.560
Yeah.

00:48:25.560 --> 00:48:25.760
Yeah.

00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:26.200
No kidding.

00:48:26.200 --> 00:48:29.460
Let something else stick around and be tied to the desk.

00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:42.480
So one thing I did want to do is I want to give a shout out to one of my sponsors, CodeChip, because, you know, Jenkins is, is a cool Java app install and you sort of configure yourself and CodeChip is kind of, you know, CI as a service.

00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.920
So check them out if, if you're not wanting to set up something.

00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:46.840
Yeah, no doubt.

00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:50.040
I've had some bunch of friends who've had good, good experiences with CodeChip.

00:48:50.200 --> 00:48:51.000
So, yeah, awesome.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:49:02.480
So that, that was kind of the end of the book in its current form and you had some, Hey, you might want to consider these other things sort of right at the end there.

00:49:02.980 --> 00:49:10.080
And so you had one section on deployment enhancements, which we've talked about a few, we've sort of touched on them and others on performance.

00:49:10.080 --> 00:49:14.600
So one of the first one you said was sort of having a QA environment.

00:49:14.600 --> 00:49:15.660
Yeah.

00:49:15.660 --> 00:49:16.800
That might be a good idea.

00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:18.080
So, yeah.

00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:27.860
So, you know, I, I glaze over this maybe a little bit, and, and maybe it deserves, you know, a lot more, a lot more thought and maybe a future version.

00:49:27.860 --> 00:49:45.120
But the idea here is like in, in the majority of companies, you have a test environment where, someone can go in and make sure that the latest, features that you've, that you, the developers have built, are working or that it just, runs, for example, like Selenium tests or something like that.

00:49:45.120 --> 00:49:57.540
Now you could do that on the continuous integration server, but the idea here is like, instead of deploying to your production environment, which if it's not, you know, you don't have a good code coverage or, wide enough code coverage could actually break the deployment.

00:49:57.540 --> 00:50:02.160
You deploy to a server where you take a look at everything and you say, okay, this is good.

00:50:02.160 --> 00:50:05.920
Let's go ahead, push the button and hit this, put this into production.

00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:07.140
Um, yeah.

00:50:07.140 --> 00:50:08.540
So that's, you know, a possibility.

00:50:08.540 --> 00:50:13.380
Uh, certainly that's a very standard, setup for, you know, having test servers.

00:50:13.380 --> 00:50:14.140
Yeah, definitely.

00:50:14.140 --> 00:50:15.260
Definitely a good idea.

00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:23.040
If it's a big problem when you push out a bad build related to that is, having the ability to roll back a deployment.

00:50:24.040 --> 00:50:24.440
Yeah.

00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:36.820
I mean, so most deployments now, a mature deployment is going to have some way where if it's, if it turns out, cause a lot of times you have production data that is different from your test data, especially if that's, you know, personally identifiable information.

00:50:36.820 --> 00:50:43.580
So that was many times as I did some government consulting, or maybe you have HIPAA compliance in the healthcare industry, something like that.

00:50:43.580 --> 00:50:50.100
Um, I certainly don't, I certainly recommend that if you, you don't just read this book and do your HIPAA compliant deployment or something like that.

00:50:50.100 --> 00:50:52.480
I think this is really a learning book.

00:50:52.480 --> 00:51:00.540
Um, but the idea here, behind, behind code rollbacks would be, the deployment doesn't, goes wrong, goes bad.

00:51:00.540 --> 00:51:05.880
Um, it's going 502 HTTP errors, maybe the whiskey servers having some issues.

00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:14.600
Uh, and so the idea is like, you just roll back to the previous version without having, to manually log into the application and all that stuff.

00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:17.500
What, what are the moving parts you had in mind for that?

00:51:17.500 --> 00:51:23.820
Um, so, so part of it is just going, you could go back to a different, get tag.

00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:28.920
So what often happens every time you do a build on Jenkins, you, you actually tag the code.

00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:32.440
Uh, so you could, you could do that, in that case.

00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:36.040
And then you would go back to a previous tag, which points to a previous commit.

00:51:36.040 --> 00:51:41.640
Um, the, the complication there really comes in with the database, schema.

00:51:41.640 --> 00:51:48.300
So if you've migrated the database schema, you also need to add in a hook where you can, roll back the migration.

00:51:48.300 --> 00:51:51.180
So there's a bunch of different steps that are involved in there.

00:51:51.180 --> 00:51:59.140
Um, and this kind of brings up the larger point, which is like, I added this chapter because I wanted to know from readers, what would they find most useful?

00:51:59.140 --> 00:52:00.900
Like, what are the problems that they're encountering?

00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:06.400
Because I think these are all very valid things, but, maybe some of them are more important to readers than others.

00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:07.760
Yeah, definitely.

00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:14.140
One other one in that area that I thought was interesting was deploying through a system package instead of version control.

00:52:14.140 --> 00:52:15.640
Yeah.

00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:27.160
So in this case, you could install, you could install your application by, bundling it in like a, you know, Debian package or some, some people use a red hat.

00:52:27.160 --> 00:52:29.640
Um, and so red hat has RPMs.

00:52:29.640 --> 00:52:34.880
Um, the idea here is like, you're not using source control in order to do your deployment.

00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:41.160
And there are many advantages to doing that, but that's, I would, I would argue that's a little bit more of an advanced deployment topic.

00:52:41.160 --> 00:52:50.420
And something that, has more complexity than I wanted to introduce the reader to at this point, in the book.

00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:55.260
I was really trying to make sure that this was a learning process that didn't lose people along the way.

00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:55.980
Right.

00:52:55.980 --> 00:52:56.400
Absolutely.

00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:57.760
It is a cool idea.

00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:10.100
You know, in show 23 with, Eli Ribble and Authentize, those guys were using pip for all their deployments, which along with get tags was really an interesting way of doing it.

00:53:10.100 --> 00:53:16.120
Basically they'd pip install their app and it would suck down all of their internal libraries to a private PI PI server.

00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:19.380
Yeah, that's totally, totally a legitimate way to do it.

00:53:19.380 --> 00:53:26.400
And in many environments, like the security folks are going to say, Hey, you actually cannot install from, from public PI PI or something like that.

00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:29.880
Cause they're worried about, breaches that could, could occur through those things.

00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:38.940
I think the main thing is just that every company has to decide what's going to work for them so they can get stuff done and reevaluate that on an ongoing basis.

00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:48.640
Because what I often see with deployments as I go, as I used to go into consulting clients was they decided 10 years ago how they were going to deploy their applications and never reevaluated that.

00:53:48.640 --> 00:53:55.900
And that's where you really encounter some, some pains, because they're not up to date with the latest practices and whatnot.

00:53:55.900 --> 00:53:56.540
Yeah.

00:53:56.540 --> 00:54:01.420
There's some pretty egregious stuff out there that people just stick with because, well, that's how we've been doing it.

00:54:01.420 --> 00:54:01.980
Right.

00:54:01.980 --> 00:54:02.500
Exactly.

00:54:02.500 --> 00:54:05.580
That's kind of what your book is meant to be solving, isn't it?

00:54:05.580 --> 00:54:06.380
To some degree.

00:54:06.380 --> 00:54:07.640
Yeah.

00:54:07.740 --> 00:54:11.020
I, I mean, I think that this is all going to continue to evolve.

00:54:11.020 --> 00:54:15.520
I wouldn't say that, you know, this is, you know, the definitive way that everyone should do their deployments.

00:54:15.520 --> 00:54:26.060
But I really do think that if you've never touched a deployment before, like this is, I, I, I feel pretty good that this is going to be a great resource for, for people that are in that situation.

00:54:26.060 --> 00:54:27.240
I'll learn a ton from it.

00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:28.200
Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:28.200 --> 00:54:37.600
So one thing that I suspect you thought of, but it's not necessarily in the book, and this is not a criticism, I agree with it, is containers or are containers.

00:54:37.600 --> 00:54:38.600
And Docker.

00:54:38.600 --> 00:54:39.700
Yeah, totally.

00:54:39.700 --> 00:54:48.620
Well, my hope is, is that I can actually get, one of my, one of my good friends, Andrew Baker, who was one of the reviewers of the book to write a chapter on Docker.

00:54:48.780 --> 00:54:55.200
He, he actually did the O'Reilly video for Docker, sort of introduction to Docker and knows a ton in that area.

00:54:55.200 --> 00:55:01.740
So I am not as familiar with containers as, so far has not been something that, I've spent a lot of time with.

00:55:01.740 --> 00:55:10.200
Um, so I didn't want to leave the reader in the wrong direction, but I certainly think that that is, a possibility for, for doing deployments and may simplify the process a lot.

00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:11.960
Yeah, I think it would.

00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:15.460
I mean, it doesn't negate all the knowledge in your book.

00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:17.500
You still need to know how to set up green unicorn.

00:55:17.500 --> 00:55:19.340
You still need to know how to set up NGINX.

00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:22.560
It just happens to be, you might do that in a container, right?

00:55:22.560 --> 00:55:22.940
Sure.

00:55:22.940 --> 00:55:26.200
But still the knowledge is, is it's totally builds on what you did.

00:55:26.200 --> 00:55:27.380
So that makes a lot of sense.

00:55:27.380 --> 00:55:31.800
And the last thing that you talked about were sort of performance improvements, right?

00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:38.700
So you talked about putting this all on one machine, no load balancing, like at a $10 server.

00:55:38.700 --> 00:55:41.980
And then, you know, that's good for like six months until the traffic spikes.

00:55:41.980 --> 00:55:42.820
And then, then what?

00:55:42.820 --> 00:55:43.100
Right.

00:55:43.100 --> 00:55:44.260
Yeah.

00:55:44.260 --> 00:55:45.840
I mean, it totally depends on your application.

00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:55.420
I mean, if you, you know, if you're doing everything with Redis on the backend, then you could actually scale this to like a very large number of requests per second.

00:55:55.420 --> 00:56:07.880
Um, but there are, very clear ways in which you can offload processing, and for example, serving statics assets from a content delivery network.

00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:09.660
That is a super easy win.

00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:20.060
If you have a bunch of images in your application and instead of serving it from your Nginx server, you're going to be serving them up from Akamai or, you know, Amazon CloudFront, something like that.

00:56:20.060 --> 00:56:27.260
Um, you can also have multiple web servers that are connected to a single database backend and have load balancers, between them.

00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:37.080
Um, that again, all of these things add some complexity, some more than others to the deployment process and are totally valid ways to improve performance.

00:56:37.080 --> 00:56:39.940
Um, but it's going to depend on your application.

00:56:39.940 --> 00:56:47.800
And I think that's where more of the nuance, like going from after reading this book, you're kind of a beginner deploy, beginner knowledge level and deployment.

00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:54.240
Um, to go to the intermediate level, you really have to look at your specific application and say, okay, where are the bottlenecks?

00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:56.580
And that's where you change your deployment process to match.

00:56:56.580 --> 00:56:57.080
Right.

00:56:57.080 --> 00:56:59.900
It doesn't make sense to just go, I'm going to scale the heck out of this thing.

00:56:59.900 --> 00:57:03.240
And you're adding complexity that you might not need to be adding.

00:57:03.240 --> 00:57:03.520
Right.

00:57:03.520 --> 00:57:04.620
Yeah, exactly.

00:57:04.620 --> 00:57:05.180
Yeah.

00:57:05.180 --> 00:57:16.120
The other, thing we could swap in here instead of improving performance is maybe improving durability because a lot of the horizontal scale will also get you that right.

00:57:16.120 --> 00:57:20.940
If a machine fails, you could take it out of the load balancer or you've got to reboot one, something like that.

00:57:20.940 --> 00:57:21.140
Right.

00:57:21.140 --> 00:57:22.180
Yeah.

00:57:22.240 --> 00:57:28.140
I mean, that's, yeah, you could absolutely have like a database replication server where, that's a read only server.

00:57:28.140 --> 00:57:32.600
So maybe you read from the read only server and you have a write only database server.

00:57:32.600 --> 00:57:35.540
Um, there's all sorts of ways you can improve the durability here.

00:57:35.540 --> 00:57:39.920
Um, you know, if you, if that's top of mind for your application.

00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:45.940
So you want to talk a little bit about what you got going on at, Twilio before we wrap things up?

00:57:45.940 --> 00:57:47.120
Yeah, absolutely.

00:57:47.120 --> 00:57:47.860
So,

00:57:47.860 --> 00:57:49.400
first, what, what is Twilio?

00:57:50.060 --> 00:57:50.460
Sure.

00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:58.660
So, so Twilio, Twilio is a, it's a cloud communications platform, which might sound a little bit buzzwordy if you're a developer.

00:57:58.660 --> 00:58:06.840
Um, but really the idea is we provide a web API, that I like to think of as an abstraction layer upon the telecommunications industry.

00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.540
Um, but more broadly than that, as we expand out.

00:58:10.540 --> 00:58:13.160
So we started out with voice calling.

00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:19.000
Um, we later added a few years later, SMS, we've added a multimedia message.

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:31.280
So it's like text messaging, but also, you know, sound clips, movie, clips, pictures via text message, through a standard MMS, protocol.

00:58:31.600 --> 00:58:35.420
Um, over domestic carriers in the United States and Canada.

00:58:35.420 --> 00:58:38.180
Um, and then now we've expanded it.

00:58:38.180 --> 00:58:43.900
We have a beta product for video, which is just pretty much the coolest thing that I have ever played with.

00:58:43.900 --> 00:58:54.480
Uh, building a video application, over, it's, it's abstracted over, WebRTC, but we expose all the, all the underlying things, but you can build a video application in like five minutes.

00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:56.860
And it's like my favorite thing to play with lately.

00:58:56.860 --> 00:59:00.720
Uh, but we also do, we also have a beta product for IP messaging.

00:59:00.720 --> 00:59:03.220
Um, we've introduced a lot of these things lately.

00:59:03.220 --> 00:59:13.460
And the idea is if you're, you are a developer and you are adding some type of communications to your, to your application, whether that's a mobile or web application, then, you should think about using.

00:59:13.460 --> 00:59:14.900
And, and take a look at Twilio.

00:59:14.900 --> 00:59:21.100
Um, and that kind of gets into what I do for Twilio, which is, my title is developer evangelist.

00:59:21.100 --> 00:59:25.500
Um, some companies call that like a developer advocate or developer relations.

00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:30.780
Um, the idea is like all of my work for the most part is open source.

00:59:30.780 --> 00:59:42.600
So I'm helping the community be able to implement, not, not only implement Twilio, in their applications, but also just, being active and involved in.

00:59:43.020 --> 00:59:48.160
The communities that I, I, most enjoy being a part of.

00:59:48.160 --> 00:59:50.880
And obviously first and foremost, that's the Python community.

00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.080
It's been my community for, for years now.

00:59:53.080 --> 00:59:55.300
I have so many great friends in the Python community.

00:59:55.860 --> 01:00:00.500
Um, I'm really, really proud of just the direction that the community is going in.

01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:07.020
I think we've got some incredible leaders, putting us in the right direction for things like PyCon and, just the general community.

01:00:07.020 --> 01:00:07.400
Yeah.

01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:11.680
And I think that growth and positive energy is accelerating if anything.

01:00:11.780 --> 01:00:15.040
So very, it's a very, it's very great time to be part of it.

01:00:15.040 --> 01:00:15.980
Yeah.

01:00:15.980 --> 01:00:17.940
So, you know, that's kind of my primary community.

01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:19.800
I've also been doing a bunch of Swift development.

01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:21.000
Um, I like iOS.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.300
I just bought the Apple watch, which is pretty cool.

01:00:23.300 --> 01:00:25.360
So I'm starting to dabble in that area.

01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.220
Uh, but really like those are my, my core communities.

01:00:29.520 --> 01:00:32.340
And, so like I got last night, I was at a Swift meetup tonight.

01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:33.660
I'll be at San Francisco Python.

01:00:33.660 --> 01:00:39.060
Um, but the idea is like as a developer vandalism out in the community, and I'm really just helping my fellow developers.

01:00:39.060 --> 01:00:40.580
Like I would be doing that anyway.

01:00:40.580 --> 01:00:50.440
Um, the great part is if they are building an application and they want to know how to send a text message or they want to add two-factor authentication, or they want to add voice calling or video in the future.

01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:53.180
Like I can help them do that and I can help them really quickly.

01:00:53.180 --> 01:00:57.040
And hopefully, they've already met me or they've met one of my colleagues.

01:00:57.100 --> 01:01:03.960
And therefore, it's super easy to shoot me an email or call me up on the phone and I can help them out and they can start, using Twilio.

01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:05.060
Yeah, that's awesome.

01:01:05.060 --> 01:01:07.240
It's great to have you as a resource for that.

01:01:07.240 --> 01:01:16.320
So obviously Twilio is all about having Python developers, you know, pip install your guys' APIs and work with them.

01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:19.600
Are you using it internally or using Python internally?

01:01:19.600 --> 01:01:21.560
Yeah, absolutely.

01:01:21.820 --> 01:01:28.840
So, there's a project called Flask RESTful, which is pretty common for creating, RESTful APIs with Flask.

01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:34.420
Um, so that actually is what runs our, web API itself, like the endpoints themselves.

01:01:34.420 --> 01:01:36.180
We actually open source that project.

01:01:36.180 --> 01:01:39.460
Um, it's now in its own separate, organization on GitHub.

01:01:39.460 --> 01:01:42.540
Um, but that was created by some folks at, at Twilio.

01:01:42.540 --> 01:01:44.820
And so we, we open source that for the community.

01:01:44.820 --> 01:01:47.940
Um, so we do use quite a bit of Python internally.

01:01:47.940 --> 01:01:52.140
Um, we also use, JVM languages like Scala and Java.

01:01:52.140 --> 01:02:00.720
Um, we still some, have some PHP on the backend, which, some people are a little bit, you know, skittish to admit, but, PHP is still a totally valid language.

01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:05.560
Um, and then, you know, we have some iOS and Android developers who work on, on some of our mobile stuff.

01:02:05.560 --> 01:02:09.600
So we've got, we have a, a, a lot of languages in the mix at Twilio.

01:02:09.600 --> 01:02:16.540
What does the deployment look like for your API finance relative to your book?

01:02:16.540 --> 01:02:17.740
Sure.

01:02:17.740 --> 01:02:18.020
Yeah.

01:02:18.020 --> 01:02:24.680
So, really the big difference and kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier is we actually are completely deployed on Amazon web services.

01:02:25.040 --> 01:02:35.240
And so we have, for the most part, an immutable architecture, which means that once you spin up a server on Amazon web services, you don't modify that server in flight.

01:02:35.240 --> 01:02:41.380
We spin up new servers with new configurations and backfill and spin down the servers that are old.

01:02:41.380 --> 01:02:47.380
Um, so we don't have people going in and modifying, servers that are already operational.

01:02:47.380 --> 01:02:49.320
Um, that helps with complexity.

01:02:49.500 --> 01:03:00.180
Uh, it also helps that, you know, when you have thousands or however many servers we have out there on Amazon web services now, you cannot go and manually configure those services.

01:03:00.180 --> 01:03:10.800
So, certainly many of the, principles that are taught on this book, like, especially around web server configuration are completely valid, for how we run our operations.

01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:21.380
Um, but they're at a very, very large scale, considering the number of, of API calls that we, we have, in every single hour of every single day.

01:03:21.380 --> 01:03:22.060
Yeah.

01:03:22.060 --> 01:03:22.720
That's really awesome.

01:03:22.720 --> 01:03:25.440
I think, you know, that's the right use case for EC2, right?

01:03:25.440 --> 01:03:33.580
When you get to that scale and you need that much fine grain programmability to the API to actually create and provision machines and all that kind of stuff.

01:03:33.580 --> 01:03:33.800
Right.

01:03:34.520 --> 01:03:35.360
Yeah, exactly.

01:03:35.360 --> 01:03:44.140
But it means that also that like the knowledge you learn from doing deployments here is completely valid for doing deployments in a much larger environment.

01:03:44.140 --> 01:03:58.640
It's just that, those tend to be, those deployments that we do at Twilio are, you know, they've been honed and enhanced and, and in some ways, you know, increased in complexity over the past seven years, the, the life cycle of the company.

01:03:58.640 --> 01:04:02.160
So, you know, there's, these things don't suddenly get created overnight.

01:04:02.160 --> 01:04:04.380
Um, you grow into those sorts of things.

01:04:04.380 --> 01:04:04.880
Absolutely.

01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:05.340
Absolutely.

01:04:05.340 --> 01:04:05.720
Yeah.

01:04:05.720 --> 01:04:21.100
I don't know if you listened to the Netflix episode, but they talked about what they're doing in EC2 there and they have so many different configurations and so on that they've actually set up scikit learn and machine learning to understand if there's a deployment problem.

01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:22.980
That, I mean, it's amazing.

01:04:22.980 --> 01:04:30.320
I have a really great friend at Netflix, and he, actually spoke at, Twilio signal conference, this past year.

01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.800
And, he, he talked a lot about all the tools at their disposal.

01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:37.780
I think what they do where they open source, a lot of their tools is absolutely incredible.

01:04:37.780 --> 01:04:50.500
Um, and, they use a, just a huge number of, AMIs, which are like the Amazon machine images, in order to pretty much a snapshot, what they want to deploy.

01:04:50.500 --> 01:04:57.000
Um, so they're like sort of, they were one of, I think probably one of the first to really take advantage of the free AMI snapshots.

01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:03.600
And now they're, you know, using that at scale and obviously using machine learning and, they're on the forefront of all this stuff.

01:05:03.600 --> 01:05:05.740
It's, it's amazing what they're, what they're working on.

01:05:05.740 --> 01:05:06.100
Yeah.

01:05:06.100 --> 01:05:12.560
If, if your book introduces people to the beginning steps, that's the opposite end of the spectrum, isn't it?

01:05:12.560 --> 01:05:13.540
Yeah, sure.

01:05:13.540 --> 01:05:28.380
And I mean, I think my hope is, is that, if you read this book and you're really excited about this deployment, these deployment concepts, because deployments used to be like a system administrator going in and punching a bunch of keys and, you know, manually installing things.

01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:31.000
Like, yes, you should understand some of that stuff.

01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:34.960
So you can get like a foundational layer for doing deployments and, and setting up servers.

01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.460
But really, deploying at scale is programming.

01:05:38.460 --> 01:05:43.760
Like when you are automating a deployment, you are programming in the same way as building an application.

01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:54.340
And so, what Netflix and, and what we're doing at Twilio, a huge part of the deployment process is just programming the deployment process and automating everything that's out there.

01:05:54.340 --> 01:05:56.020
Very interesting.

01:05:56.020 --> 01:05:57.920
Thanks for sharing that look inside Twilio.

01:05:57.920 --> 01:05:58.500
That's cool.

01:05:58.500 --> 01:06:01.780
Two questions before I let you out of here.

01:06:01.780 --> 01:06:02.680
Sure.

01:06:03.040 --> 01:06:04.220
Uh, what's your favorite editor?

01:06:04.220 --> 01:06:06.160
If you're going to write some Python code, what do you open up?

01:06:06.160 --> 01:06:09.080
I use Vim for pretty much everything.

01:06:09.080 --> 01:06:16.960
Um, I use Xcode for writing Swift, just because that's like the default, that you go to, but I've been using them for a long time.

01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:29.460
And, that is my, my go-to my, Vim as you probably can tell, but if you ever go to the Vim page on full stack Python, it's a, a lot more, meaningful information than the Emacs page, which was a community contributed.

01:06:29.460 --> 01:06:33.540
Cause I, I don't know if I've ever actually opened up Emacs before.

01:06:33.540 --> 01:06:35.240
Nothing, nothing against it.

01:06:35.240 --> 01:06:37.240
I just, I stuck with Vim for a long time.

01:06:37.240 --> 01:06:37.480
Yeah.

01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:37.980
That's funny.

01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:41.340
And I can imagine you wouldn't want to do storyboards in iOS.

01:06:41.340 --> 01:06:47.500
No, I don't, I don't want to figure out how to, how to write, you know, iOS applications.

01:06:47.500 --> 01:06:48.340
I don't know.

01:06:48.340 --> 01:06:48.440
Yeah.

01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:49.700
That definitely requires an ID.

01:06:49.900 --> 01:06:50.160
All right.

01:06:50.160 --> 01:06:54.360
Other one is your favorite PI PI package that maybe people don't know about it.

01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:55.600
You want to raise the awareness of.

01:06:55.600 --> 01:06:56.520
Okay.

01:06:56.520 --> 01:06:57.880
So I'll, I'll go with two of them.

01:06:57.880 --> 01:07:00.720
Um, one is like a little bit more self-promoting.

01:07:00.720 --> 01:07:02.880
My favorite one that I wrote is called underwear.

01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:06.680
And the idea behind underwear was I wrote this project over like five or six weeks.

01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:12.540
And it's like, I thought, why don't we have, when you're working in Django, like a Python

01:07:12.540 --> 01:07:18.360
managed out by deploy, like, and that just deploys your entire application to a, like a

01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:19.160
virtual private server.

01:07:19.160 --> 01:07:24.840
And what it does is it uses Ansible programmatically under the covers, to handle the entire

01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:25.640
deployment for you.

01:07:25.640 --> 01:07:31.580
Uh, so if you use like pip install underwear and you add it to your installed packages, you

01:07:31.580 --> 01:07:34.040
suddenly get new managed out by commands.

01:07:34.340 --> 01:07:38.160
Uh, and one of them is deploy and you just pointed at a server and boom, your application

01:07:38.160 --> 01:07:38.900
is like up and running.

01:07:38.900 --> 01:07:40.940
I haven't worked on it all that much lately.

01:07:40.940 --> 01:07:43.920
Uh, but it's kind of magical when you get the configuration, right?

01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:49.900
And you're just like, wow, I just deployed through the Python managed out by, commands.

01:07:49.900 --> 01:07:53.720
So underwear is that one that's all open source under MIT license.

01:07:53.720 --> 01:07:54.320
That's really cool.

01:07:54.320 --> 01:07:57.180
And the fact that you've got that name for it is, is awesome.

01:07:57.180 --> 01:07:58.600
Uh, yeah.

01:07:58.600 --> 01:08:02.540
Well, I mean, the meaning behind the name was basically like, this is how you could start

01:08:02.540 --> 01:08:03.420
doing your deployments.

01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:07.220
Um, if you want to, and then you can change your deployment process later.

01:08:07.220 --> 01:08:12.100
Um, and no one will know it's like changing their underwear and like no one sees your underwear.

01:08:12.100 --> 01:08:13.780
So like, they don't really care how that goes.

01:08:13.780 --> 01:08:14.820
So I don't know.

01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:15.700
That was the gist behind it.

01:08:15.700 --> 01:08:16.160
That's funny.

01:08:16.160 --> 01:08:20.000
I thought, and it was, and it was actually, it's really funny when people are like, Oh,

01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:24.340
uh, like I, I was at Django con one time and someone was like, Oh, you're the underwear

01:08:24.340 --> 01:08:24.720
guy.

01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:26.720
And my colleague was like, I'm sorry.

01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:29.260
Like what, what did that person just say?

01:08:29.260 --> 01:08:31.400
And I was like, Oh, I wrote the underwear package.

01:08:31.400 --> 01:08:33.060
Like that's what they mean.

01:08:33.060 --> 01:08:35.040
I'm not an underwear model or something like that.

01:08:36.500 --> 01:08:42.480
Um, so that, but other than that, I mean, you know, it's, I actually really like

01:08:42.480 --> 01:08:49.020
the, especially when I was doing consulting, I mean, saving time through, like the,

01:08:49.440 --> 01:08:53.200
Excel, the Excel, like read and write packages.

01:08:53.200 --> 01:08:58.160
Um, and so it's been a little while since I've used them in the past, but like, if you need

01:08:58.160 --> 01:09:05.280
to read from or write to Excel spreadsheets, which, is shockingly the system of choice

01:09:05.280 --> 01:09:07.460
for the vast majority of corporate America.

01:09:07.460 --> 01:09:11.800
Um, like if you were trying to create a web application that automates what is happening

01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:18.620
in Excel spreadsheet, like these packages, so it's like Excel, RD, and Excel.

01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:20.940
W I believe something like that.

01:09:20.940 --> 01:09:25.460
Um, these packages on PyPI are like so much time savers.

01:09:25.460 --> 01:09:27.060
Like I just, I don't know.

01:09:27.060 --> 01:09:29.320
Every time I've used them, I've been like, thank goodness.

01:09:29.320 --> 01:09:33.980
Like if I had to create this all from scratch myself, I never would have gotten this project

01:09:33.980 --> 01:09:34.240
done.

01:09:34.240 --> 01:09:41.780
I think you're right about how much of corporate America enterprise space runs on, on Excel.

01:09:41.780 --> 01:09:42.980
It's crazy.

01:09:42.980 --> 01:09:44.020
Yeah.

01:09:44.020 --> 01:09:48.720
I mean, companies have entire names for like one company I work for called them,

01:09:48.760 --> 01:09:49.380
EUCs.

01:09:49.380 --> 01:09:52.000
And they kept throwing around the EUCs acronym.

01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:53.920
And I'm like, finally, I'm like, what is an EUC?

01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:59.540
And they're like end user computing basically means the end user created the computing system

01:09:59.540 --> 01:10:04.320
on which they are doing all their processing on, which is, Excel.

01:10:04.940 --> 01:10:05.340
Yeah.

01:10:05.340 --> 01:10:06.560
That's pretty much what it means.

01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:09.480
Those are, those are some good ones to know about.

01:10:09.480 --> 01:10:09.800
Thanks.

01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:12.440
Matt, this has been super interesting.

01:10:12.440 --> 01:10:19.240
And I think for those listeners out there who are not day to day doing deployments, this is a really

01:10:19.240 --> 01:10:20.260
helpful book.

01:10:20.260 --> 01:10:23.820
Do you want to just tell people how they can get your book and things like that?

01:10:24.020 --> 01:10:24.840
Yeah, sure.

01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.680
Um, so one way would be to just go to deploy python.com.

01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:32.640
Uh, and then that has a link to buy the book on gumroad.

01:10:32.640 --> 01:10:39.140
Uh, if you want to go to gumroad directly, it's a gumroad.com forward slash L forward slash Python dash

01:10:39.140 --> 01:10:39.760
deployments.

01:10:39.980 --> 01:10:42.740
And I actually created a promo code for anyone who is listening.

01:10:42.740 --> 01:10:47.020
It's, talk Python to me, with all dashes.

01:10:47.020 --> 01:10:49.820
We'll make sure that's included as part of the, the references.

01:10:49.820 --> 01:10:52.660
Um, but anyone can use that for 15% off the book.

01:10:52.660 --> 01:10:57.300
Um, and, and also I'm, you know, I'm happy to answer questions about it.

01:10:57.300 --> 01:11:01.280
And, you know, if people pick it up and they realize like, this isn't the book for them,

01:11:01.280 --> 01:11:04.860
I try to be as clear as possible on the audience, but if you pick up the book and it's not great

01:11:04.860 --> 01:11:06.860
for you, happy to give you a refund on it.

01:11:06.940 --> 01:11:10.980
But, I just really enjoyed creating the book and hearing from readers and continuing

01:11:10.980 --> 01:11:12.280
to approve it along the way.

01:11:12.280 --> 01:11:13.800
Yeah, that's awesome.

01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:15.180
Thanks for writing it.

01:11:15.180 --> 01:11:16.420
It's a really good book.

01:11:16.420 --> 01:11:21.800
I, I recommend readers go to deploy python.com, go to the bottom of the page, look at that architecture

01:11:21.800 --> 01:11:22.240
picture.

01:11:22.240 --> 01:11:27.260
And if, you know, knowing how all those pieces get created, wired together and set up in a

01:11:27.260 --> 01:11:29.620
repeatable way is helpful, you know, check out the book.

01:11:29.620 --> 01:11:31.020
It's all about that.

01:11:31.020 --> 01:11:31.760
Cool.

01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:32.860
Thank you very much, Michael.

01:11:32.860 --> 01:11:33.480
This has been great.

01:11:33.480 --> 01:11:34.140
Yeah.

01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:35.180
Thanks for being on the show, Matt.

01:11:35.180 --> 01:11:35.760
Talk to you later.

01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:40.300
This has been another episode of talk Python to me.

01:11:40.300 --> 01:11:42.500
Today's guest was Matthew McKay.

01:11:42.500 --> 01:11:45.480
And this episode has been sponsored by hired and opt beat.

01:11:45.480 --> 01:11:47.440
Thank you both for supporting the show.

01:11:47.440 --> 01:11:50.520
Hired wants to help you find your next big thing.

01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:55.820
Visit hire.com slash talk Python to me to get five or more offers with salary and equity presented

01:11:55.820 --> 01:11:59.240
right up front and a special listener signing bonus of $4,000.

01:11:59.240 --> 01:12:03.500
Opt beat is the mission control center for your Python web application.

01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:07.660
Keep an eye on errors, performance, profiling, and more in your Django.

01:12:07.660 --> 01:12:10.820
And now starting today, Flask web applications.

01:12:11.440 --> 01:12:17.620
You can find the links from today's show at talkpython.fm/episodes slash show slash 26.

01:12:17.620 --> 01:12:20.100
Be sure to subscribe to the show.

01:12:20.100 --> 01:12:22.460
Open your favorite podcatcher and search for Python.

01:12:22.460 --> 01:12:23.640
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01:12:24.180 --> 01:12:27.980
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01:12:27.980 --> 01:12:33.420
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01:12:33.420 --> 01:12:36.240
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01:12:37.200 --> 01:12:38.900
This is your host, Michael Kennedy.

01:12:38.900 --> 01:12:39.840
Thanks for listening.

01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:41.860
Smix, take us out of here.

01:12:41.860 --> 01:12:41.860
Smix, take us out of here.

01:12:41.860 --> 01:13:03.920
Smix, take us out of here.