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Self-training: academy and upgrade redesign #331

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tukkek opened this issue Apr 11, 2022 · 2 comments
Open

Self-training: academy and upgrade redesign #331

tukkek opened this issue Apr 11, 2022 · 2 comments

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@tukkek
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tukkek commented Apr 11, 2022

While Academies work and are a (more or less) straightforward representation of the optional downtime rules used as reference, they can be quite cumbersome compared to simpler leveling rules - including original tabletop rules where you just level up and pick whatever you want or RPGs where you have enough points and spend on a skill tree.

Problems include long training times, costs (at early levels) and a perpetual cycle of "train one unit while the others are adventuring then when the training it's done it's time to train another one" - which is fine and intended to some degree (having different squad loadouts is strategic, exposing strengths and weaknesses in your team composition) but doesn't work best when it's just a few units in a given Squad, which is common for Javelin.

While Javelin (and in general any free-form based OGL game) doesn't lend itself well towards skill trees (Spells aren't tree-like, abilities can have many non-tree requirements like Ability scores), it should be possible to bridge the gap somewhat. One way to do it would be to allow Upgrades learned by Combatants to be re-trainable on their own, so a creature with Warrior Class training could receive levels on their own or a spellcaster with one Magic Missile could learn more at will.

This is a good mix of having Academies be massively impactful for learning new things while also skipping the training queues, travel to reach them later on and all that. This could be implemented as Upgrade lists on a Squad (or conversely adapt those to a new Combatant subclass: Squadie or similar).

If #110 is implemented, it should then prioritize new Upgrades to add to the list of self-training possibilities.

From there, players would be able to use #278 to upgrade their units. Ideally speaking, they would select one or more target upgrades and then slowly fill the required XP to achieve them. In practice this has many problems to consider, such as one Upgrade completing making another invalid (spell limit cap, feats exhausted...), XP costs changing based on the CR golden-rule...

It should be straightforward enough to let players pick one Upgrade at a time to work towards or simply allow them to pick from a list and spend their XP and have the effects work immediately. The first option raises other concerns like "what happens if a player trains in Academy or gets a Learning Stone upgrade in the meantime" while the second option makes self-training so much better than Academies (instantaneous, free)...

Another way to approach this is to have Academies simply unlock all the relevant upgrades for a character to self-train later but this also raises a lot of concerns: what should the price and training period be for unlocking all of these - it would probably be worse off than now since you can get in, get a single upgrade more quickly. Or if you get an Upgrade once, you get it added as a single-use self-train later on (if valid) but that's game-y.

Another option is to have a multi-class system where training in any Academy makes this your "active Kit" from which you can self-train (or adds to a list of Active kits) but this again raises the same issues, namely "activation" price and duration. Perhaps players wouldn't mind the extra cost and time spent if they knew the Kit's upgrades would be available permanently for their benefit.

Another problem here is the double-dip: having to train in an academy and then self-training makes two redundant systems, which makes the case for Academies-for-unlocking then self-training as superior, if more complex for players to learn (which can be mitigated by having a reminder of "Level up!" when reaching 100XP to spend, during downtime #278).

A good baseline for "kit unlocking" would be 100XP worth of time and gold for one kit unlock. Having a fixed cost would be great too for planning and consistency - it would however, require a better Academy Screen in the sense that it should let players know what they are investing in. If a unit cannot properly cast spells, they should all show as "cannot learn: reason" and probably also "this unit can currently learn x/X upgrades from this Kit" as part of the screen. A reminder of "this enables the Kits but downtime upgrades are required" would also be welcome.

If players started with one or more preferred-Kits available for self-train, this would completely remove the need for the Adventurers Guild and Basic Academy, reducing new player cognitive load by a good amount and clearing space better used for mini-games and proper Town Labors. A non-Academy Basic-Kit could be constructed for each Ability and multiple would be unlocked in case of repeats - having more options doesn't translate to more powerful builds or invalidating Academies, especially if few options are given and very limited (like level 1 spells)...

The downtime #278 Upgrade Screen would naturally be organized by Kits (tabs or sub-menus).

Once this is implemented, #157 could be handled on a spell-by-spell basis or a catch-all Upgrade choice (not unlike the Adept proposal).

@tukkek tukkek added this to the Long-term milestone Apr 11, 2022
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tukkek commented Apr 11, 2022

Since the last comment turned out to be more of a brainstorm and analysis, here's a proper proposal:

  1. Implement Downtime #278.
  2. New units are given Basic Kits (not available in any Academy) based on their preferred Ability Score(s). These are purposefully limited: maybe even as little as a Class and Ability upgrade.
  3. Units can now use Downtime Downtime #278 to immediately apply Upgrades, as long as they have the necessary XP. Those are organized by Kit, with all available Basic Kits counting as a single category. Upgrades can be chosen at any point but a "Level up!" reminder is shown if a unit has 100XP or more.
  4. Academies now unlock a Kit, enabling all of its Upgrades to be purchased at Downtime. This requires some changes to the Academy Screen (see above). The time and cost for learning a Kit is the equivalent to 100XP, always fixed.
  5. The Adventurers Guild and Basic Academy can now be removed. They aren't necessary as basic Upgrades are free and immediately available and it frees space for other content (including proper Town Labors and Mini-games).

For storing available Kits per-unit, Squad can be used in a similar way to Equipment or a more logical sub-class of Combatant (Squaddie) can be implemented to hold like data. The list of available Kits can be ordered so that a unit remembers the most recent Kits used for Upgrades at Downtime.

Once this is done, it opens more possibilities for #157 to be implemented as well.

@tukkek tukkek changed the title Self-training Self-training: academy and upgrade redesign Apr 14, 2022
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tukkek commented Apr 14, 2022

The Adventurers Guild could still be useful for unlocking a single non-prestige Kit per unit, although it seems like too much World and cognitive real-estate for its worth as a starting Location. Perhaps it should be a Squad Screen functionality instead.

Javelin s an Upgrade-based roguelite and as such the inherent randomness of Town Labors is a core part of its design - but if it's easy to allow players who want to pick their own class from the beginning of the game to do so (which would probably be most new players at least and definitely a lot of casual players overall), why not allow it? Looking into the long-term maybe that should be a achievement-disabling game option only.

Removing the Basic Academy and keeping the Adventurers Guild inside the starting Town would still be a net-positive (if smaller) in that sense. If could even avoid all the work with the Basic Kits. Hardcore roguelite fans could just use the random Kit suggested instead.

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