Don't appropriate Black Lives Matter language.

[nebkor]

Although the sentiment, "$foo lives matter" seems innocent and uncontroversial, by using it in this context, it diminishes its meaning in the original BLM context. A developer is not born a developer; there's no strong history of developers being marginalized and enslaved and hated by state institutions. A police officer is not more likely to shoot a developer than a non-developer (and really, there are much harder jobs that are more dangerous than developer, like construction worker or miner). A developer can stop being a developer and become something else. A black person cannot.

It's important to acknowledge that developers are laborers, and that management has a long history of exploiting labor unfairly in order to please their capital-holding masters. So I changed "developers' lives matter" to "humanity over profit", because that's what it's really about.

[zxkjack123]

Can't agree more!

[epicGeek]

Obviously you west guys have no idea what's the situation in China.

[nebkor]

@epicGeek I know, which is why my change is for the en_US locale only. In China, it may be more OK to use that language, because it doesn't carry the original, BLM meaning. But in the United States, it's tacky.

[zxkjack123]

@epicGeek But we need to broadcast the situation to the entire world, we want guys in the west know our situation, so we should use appropriate words and terms to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. The term developers' lives matter will make some people such as @nebkor feel uncomfortable.

[epicGeek]

@nebkor @zxkjack123 Yeah, you are right. But I don't think the government would give a f**k because the government can share the profit, too. You know it. The 996.ICU movement won't work in the end. We'll see about that. Poor Chinese developer.

[zxkjack123]

@epicGeek In the history of China, the governments of the dynasties that didn't give a f**k to the people, are usually f**ked by the people.
We will get nothing if we don't do anything. At least, we gain the attentions among the developers in both national and international.

[nirui]

I understand what you meat, but if you look a little deeper, it's not very hard to found that slavery and almost all the problems associated with it was (and maybe still are) caused by (trying to gain maximum) profit.

Which is not very far off from ask workers to illegally work overtime, really.

I'm not equalizing slavery and overtime work, rather, I'm just pointing out their similarities. However, you're welcome to go ahead calling overtime work a slavery if you really really wanted to and I'll be absolutely fine with it.

The "Humanity Over Profit" that you suggested maybe more precise, but to be honest I don't think it sound right when you want to send a loud message.

To a boss, that sentence is no difference to "Reduce 20% of work time can dramatically improve workers happiness". Try imagine 143,933 people yelling that at Tiananmen square. That's not a protest, that's 143,933 people practicing statistics using methods told in a English (or Chinese in this case) class.

I'm not in the opposite side of choosing a more appropriate and inspiring slogan, but maybe it can be louder than that?

[epicGeek]

@zxkjack123 I understand because I was a victim of 996 , too. This government does not really care about us , you better know that. There are only two possible ends : 1. this 996.ICU movement dies in silence. 2.sacrifice needs to be made. I don't want to see any of the both, but sadly, it will. This topic is serious and heavy, bro. Sigh.

[epicGeek]

@Reinit Yes. The government has disappointed us too much.

[zxkjack123]

@epicGeek Agreed. This movement will probably die in silence. It's just like a firework in the night, sparking for a short moment and then faded away. But I hope this spark could lead to a great fire and bring us light and warm.

[epicGeek]

@epicGeek Our government hates fire. LOL

[pachulisk]

I think the EXACT OPPOSITE way: "$foo lives matter" is appropriate, because:

• It is NOTHING WRONG with $foo, no matter $foo is a black or $foo is programmer. It is the POSION ENVIRONMENT that should be accused of.
• $foo is suffered in this environment, both black people and programmers died due to that environment, explicitly or implicitly.
• It takes very HIGH cost to escape from that env, that's why we call for improvement to the environment. You can stop being a programmer, but it cuts the family income, maybe the whole family will be suffer. Black people can migrate to a black-majority county, but that will also cost so much to do it.

So I think as long as we're calling for a improvement of poison environment, we can and we should use "$foo lives matter".

[nebkor]

* It is NOTHING WRONG with $foo, no matter $foo is a black or $foo is programmer. It is the POSION ENVIRONMENT that should be accused of.

This is simply saying "nuh uh" to what I said. In the United States, it is very bad taste to use this language; this is why I made the change to the en_US locale only. I understand that in other places, it's not as bad to use this language, but in the US, it's bad.

* $foo is suffered in this environment, both black people and programmers died due to that environment, explicitly or implicitly.

This is especially bad because it's erasing the black experience, which is unique, by equating it with the non-black experience.

* It takes very HIGH cost to escape from that env, that's why we call for improvement to the environment. You can stop being a programmer, but it cuts the family income, maybe the whole family will be suffer. Black people can migrate to a black-majority county, but that will also cost so much to do it.

This equivalence is grotesquely false. Please never make this bad argument again in the future.

So I think as long as we're calling for a improvement of poison environment, we can and we should use "$foo lives matter".

You have ignored everything I said and simply stated, "We shouldn't change it."

[zxkjack123]

I think the EXACT OPPOSITE way: "$foo lives matter" is appropriate, because:

• It is NOTHING WRONG with $foo, no matter $foo is a black or $foo is programmer. It is the POSION ENVIRONMENT that should be accused of.
• $foo is suffered in this environment, both black people and programmers died due to that environment, explicitly or implicitly.
• It takes very HIGH cost to escape from that env, that's why we call for improvement to the environment. You can stop being a programmer, but it cuts the family income, maybe the whole family will be suffer. Black people can migrate to a black-majority county, but that will also cost so much to do it.

So I think as long as we're calling for a improvement of poison environment, we can and we should use "$foo lives matter".

Yes, you are right grammatically! But you are wrong when you say that it in the US. As mentioned in @nebkor comments, it's about the environment/background/context. We are not playing a grammar game, we are communicating with people.

[ManiaciaChao]

How about "Humanity Trumps Profit"?

[doby216]

It’s definitely appropriate to use Developers’ lives matter. y’all has been enslaved by the Capitalists; as the time evolves, the form of slavery changes. You think y’all are labors and you have right? Nah, at least not in China. This particular movement advocates just the rights we should’ve gotten as a human, but we are treated as slaves. It has nothing to do with contexts, there’s no context, all I see are the fightings between two classes, the proletariat and the bourgeoisie; the slaveowner and the slaves; the capitalist and the labors/employees; no matter it’s right now in China, 200 years ago in the states, or somewhere else around the world. We are all the same, without anything special for particular groups, we are all persecuted! Thank you!

[stoneAlbert]

The reason why the wealthy people in China generally change their nationality and go abroad with higher education is that the superficial scenery is worse than the actual situation.

[doby216]

Although the sentiment, "$foo lives matter" seems innocent and uncontroversial, by using it in this context, it diminishes its meaning in the original BLM context. A developer is not born a developer; there's no strong history of developers being marginalized and enslaved and hated by state institutions. A police officer is not more likely to shoot a developer than a non-developer (and really, there are much harder jobs that are more dangerous than developer, like construction worker or miner). A developer can stop being a developer and become something else. A black person cannot.

It's important to acknowledge that developers are laborers, and that management has a long history of exploiting labor unfairly in order to please their capital-holding masters. So I changed "developers' lives matter" to "humanity over profit", because that's what it's really about.

Hey, nebkor, first of all thanks for your support. I have to say sorry that I disagree with your ideas, and I wouldn't apply political correctness into this situation. The situation is worse than what you think in China, and we are suffering from the inexistence of human rights and labor rights, not particular in the case of IT workers, but among many other aspects of society. It's harming the lives of people, and it should be, and it has always been as the same case of what had happened in the black community of the United States. Japanese workers is suffering, too. 70 people suicides on daily average. Indeed, among all three countries of the east Asia, Korea, Japan and China, all have the same problem. As well as many other African countries. We, as Chinese, merely have no concept about the term "race" if had never lived in the states before. I, as a person who lives in the states, never associate those situation with "race" as well. nebkor, I am here to appeal and advocate the Internationalism to you and others pathetically, to think more wider, as a proletarian internationalist. And we're all the same, All lives matter, nobody wants to suicide if it's severely hard for them to make a living.

[CaliMac]

The Chinese people face more percicution hardship and exploitation than any modern black American. The fact that a hipster blm developer would call out the language truly shows their lack of understanding of international conditions. The comment was truly self centered and detracted from the relevant conversation about Chinese censorship

[fmd]

I agree with @doby216.

@nebkor writes:

Although the sentiment, "$foo lives matter" seems innocent and uncontroversial, by using it in this context, it diminishes its meaning in the original BLM context. A developer is not born a developer; there's no strong history of developers being marginalized and enslaved and hated by state institutions. A police officer is not more likely to shoot a developer than a non-developer (and really, there are much harder jobs that are more dangerous than developer, like construction worker or miner). A developer can stop being a developer and become something else. A black person cannot.

@nebkor, thank you for coming in and patronisingly informing criminally overworked Chinese people as to the difference between someone's "job" and their "race". Everyone already knew the difference, of course, and were simply using the words "lives matter" to try and desperately grab some international attention for their nascent movement.

How, precisely does a small movement of people in China protesting grim working conditions using this language "diminish its meaning in the original BLM context"? Let's hear some hard and fast examples.

Is intersectionality not meant to be a way to build solidarity between groups of marginalised people? Because my suspicion (and you're very much confirming it here) is that it's just turned into another way for coddled Americans to police people's language on the internet because it makes them feel good.

I understand that you're proud of yourself because you got to be the one to point out something that you might consider "problematic", and that i'm kind of raining on your parade by saying all this, but it's indicative of a wider trend; tone-policing, concern-trolling, and e-scolding genuine working movements (or even any talk of distributive policy) out of existence in the name of a phoney, badly-thought-through idea of "inclusivity".

If this PR is merged, do it because the language won't fly in the US (all the other little teacher's pets will probably say "uhhm... yikes" too), not because this instance of "appropriative language diminishes the BLM movement in the US". It doesn't. It's just an excuse to talk down to people.

[nebkor]

Hey @fmd thank you for taking the time to write such a long and thoughtful message! Also, I do appreciate your edit, because indeed if it's "not a big deal", then clearly it doesn't matter to you whether or not the language is changed to fit better in the US context, a conclusion at odds with the time and energy you've expended.

It was not my intention to talk down. It was my intention to justify the change. No one is being scolded, and I understand (and understood) that the language was not intentionally being misused. If anyone feels threatened by this PR (as the reactions seem to indicate is the case), then I communicated badly and I apologize.

Like I said, the language as it was was bad, bad enough that I don't want to spread it or be associated with it. I changed it to something less offensive in the US, and more universally applicable (developers should be allying with other laborers; our common interest is against exploitative bosses and systems). Like @zxkjack123 said, it's really more of a jumping-off point for new ideas, rather than, "use this language and nothing else!" :-)

[fmd]

@nebkor Again: How, precisely does this "diminish meaning in the original BLM context"?

• If you find the words "lives matter", in a perfectly reasonably homologous context "threatening and offensive", I don't know what to tell you.

• If it "wasn't your intention to talk down" as you carefully explained to people here the difference between someone's job and their race, I don't know what to tell you.

• If you think that this PR helps anyone, and is anything other than you smugly giving people who, unlike yourself, have more pressing concerns in their lives something additional to deal with (choosing new language), I don't know what to tell you.

You can put your point as cheerfully as you want, present it as "a jumping off point", but you've snuck your premise already: "What was written was bad, offensive, and possibly threatening, and I am here to show you the error of your ways, because I am an American 'Leftist', and in America our discourse is more advanced than yours. Now, let me explain some stuff to you".

I deleted "it's not a big deal" from my comment because I knew you'd jump on it, not because I decided the distinction was somehow a big deal. Most people with an ounce of common sense could tell you that it isn't a big deal. It really isn't. The reason I am now Mad Online is not because of the language, it's specifically because of you, and how blinkered and dogmatic your political discourse is that you'd ever think to "actually..." people here.

Thanks for responding though, I'm surprised you did. I was sure you would have moved on to explaining to Saudi Arabian women why it's offensive if they tweet #meToo if they're talking about wanting to drive rather than being sexually harassed, or some other equally hypocritical and counterproductive injunction.

[nebkor]

@fmd Cool!

[pangzineng]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。

150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？

在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。

我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

[zxkjack123]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。

150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？

在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。

我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

@pangzineng 你说的很有道理。我之前也是希望在en_US里面更换口号能够赢得更多的盟友。但看过大家的讨论我发现，他们不会为我们做什么，因为我们受到的压榨他们没有体会，我们争取到权利也对他们没有影响。我们需要争取的是那些同样被996压榨的盟友，而不是那些看客。他们理解不理解又有什么关系，反正他们什么也不会做。

[doby216]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。
150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？
在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。
我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

@pangzineng 你说的很有道理。我之前也是希望在en_US里面更换口号能够赢得更多的盟友。但看过大家的讨论我发现，他们不会为我们做什么，因为我们受到的压榨他们没有体会，我们争取到权利也对他们没有影响。我们需要争取的是那些同样被996压榨的盟友，而不是那些看客。他们理解不理解又有什么关系，反正他们什么也不会做。

从来没有什么救世主，不是神仙也不是皇帝。更不是那些英雄豪杰，全靠自己救自己！要救猿，只能靠猿们自己，国际上同情归同情，能有多少响应和帮助？所谓屁股决定脑袋，人家根本跟我们没有利益纠纷，只有白左点个star，只有同情，没有盟友

[MaxBittker]

I agree with the sentiment of this PR and would like to suggest the alternative wordings
"Respect Workers' Rights"
or
"Workers' Rights Matter"

[CaliMac]

#AnimalFarm

[pachulisk]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。
150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？
在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。
我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

@pangzineng 你说的很有道理。我之前也是希望在en_US里面更换口号能够赢得更多的盟友。但看过大家的讨论我发现，他们不会为我们做什么，因为我们受到的压榨他们没有体会，我们争取到权利也对他们没有影响。我们需要争取的是那些同样被996压榨的盟友，而不是那些看客。他们理解不理解又有什么关系，反正他们什么也不会做。

从来没有什么救世主，不是神仙也不是皇帝。更不是那些英雄豪杰，全靠自己救自己！要救猿，只能靠猿们自己，国际上同情归同情，能有多少响应和帮助？所谓屁股决定脑袋，人家根本跟我们没有利益纠纷，只有白左点个star，只有同情，没有盟友

你来寻求统一战线，人家反手就是一把掌:"你们也配叫X命贵？"
窝可敲里码个小饼干吧。

预测：慕洋犬还有30秒到达战场，碾碎他们

[qwas982]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。

150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？

在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。

我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。
150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？
在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。
我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

@pangzineng你说的很有道理。我之前也是希望在en_US里面更换口号能够赢得更多的盟友。但看过大家的讨论我发现，他们不会为我们做什么，因为我们受到的压榨他们没有体会，我们争取到权利也对他们没有影响。我们需要争取的是那些同样被996压榨的盟友，而不是那些看客。他们理解不理解又有什么关系，反正他们什么也不会做。

我早就说过,崇洋媚外的人大多继承了汉奸文化,热脸贴冷屁股是TA们的典型表现,有很多所谓的公知就是这样在带节奏.经过这么几十年的带节奏发展过程,已经形成了相当大的一批拥趸,TA们凡是遇到中国的一切都要反对,西方国外的不管是什么都要捧上天捧到睾跪致畸的程度,要当一个实实在在的跪族和跪奴.
引用;" 罢工你申请能批准得了? 工人阶级被彻底抛弃了，娘不疼，爹不爱，比农民都不如，手里没有一分生产资料，只能靠出卖劳力为生!"
这还是2015年的现实事实发生后的评论.醒醒吧,中国劳动者们!
现在简单分析下,中国的弱势群体几乎只有任劳任怨的社会中下层男性群体,为什么这么说,因为女性群体(不指所有女性群体)不管顶层还是底层(那些连算人的利用价值都没有的女性不在此列)都是依附,都已经被马X这样资本家用消费主义,拜金主义给捧杀掉了,处于迷失自我的状态中.并且TA们的生存还是社会中下层男性群体在996.icu所表达的社会风气(潜规则,默认规则)没日没夜加班加点地赶出来在供着.
中国的社会中下层男性群体劳动者们,我只能说,我们没有一个可以依靠的方式和方法可以保障我们的生存权利(看清楚,不是所谓的合法权益),真的如国际歌里唱的"要全靠我们自己",现在不管是内还是外对我们的生存威胁都已经产生了难以想象的巨大规模.
我们真的只能独立自主,自立自强地寻找真正的出路在哪里!要斩断任何依赖依靠思想.

想要完全自有体系独立自主自控就得不加依赖地完全从零建造一切,
想要具备从零开始建造一切的能力,首先就是得具备从零开始建造一切的思维.

这是我昨天与人辩论后得出的结论.放弃一切幻想,准备脚踏实地地战斗.

[ghost]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。
150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？
在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。
我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

@pangzineng 你说的很有道理。我之前也是希望在en_US里面更换口号能够赢得更多的盟友。但看过大家的讨论我发现，他们不会为我们做什么，因为我们受到的压榨他们没有体会，我们争取到权利也对他们没有影响。我们需要争取的是那些同样被996压榨的盟友，而不是那些看客。他们理解不理解又有什么关系，反正他们什么也不会做。

感觉你说的有道理

[NatsumeZhang]

There's a saying, relying upon oneself is better than relying upon others. 美国人歧视虐待黑人的事情至今未处理妥善（上周一黑人说唱歌手在车里被连射25枪），我们并不会去求资本主义给我们多大帮助，只能靠自己。人民内部的矛盾要人民自己来解决，转移矛盾只能暂缓并不能治本。

[PegionFish]

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。
150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？
在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。
我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

在老美眼里，黄种人尤其是中国人、华人从来就不是他们政治正确保护伞下的一份子。
150年前几万华人漂洋过海，用血肉给他们铺出来第一条横跨美国的铁路的时候，他们受到的是比slave还不如的待遇。
美国法典里唯一一个针对特定国籍和人种的歧视法案，长达半个世纪的排华法案，直到一个世纪后才有官方道歉。
当今美国社会的政治正确运动里，黄种人是被划分到白人那一派，被批判为既得利益者。像是亚裔细分法案这种21世纪的纳粹行为，有什么美国人站出来给黄种人撑腰了？
在美国人的潜意识里，“中国人”这个词是从来没有和“被压迫”“被奴役”挂钩过的，150年前被看作是工具，50年前被看作是反派，30年前被看作是笑柄，10年前被当做是敌人。今天你觉得他们会忽然变成朋友？看看这位老美用的是什么词，是“cultural appropriation”，这是在政治正确运动里用来控诉大反派的。
我可以理解使用"developer lives matter"这个词是为了跟老美套近乎，希望他们能加入来，可惜人家从来就没有站在你这一边的想法。
简单地说，上reddit花一个小时搜一下涉及到中国人/华人的新闻，看看评论都是什么嘴脸，尤其是这个996新闻的讨论，准保能打消你们对于这些人最后一丝好感。

@pangzineng你说的很有道理。我之前也是希望在en_US里面更换口号能够赢得更多的盟友。但看过大家的讨论我发现，他们不会为我们做什么，因为我们受到的压榨他们没有体会，我们争取到权利也对他们没有影响。我们需要争取的是那些同样被996压榨的盟友，而不是那些看客。他们理解不理解又有什么关系，反正他们什么也不会做。

我早就说过,崇洋媚外的人大多继承了汉奸文化,热脸贴冷屁股是TA们的典型表现,有很多所谓的公知就是这样在带节奏.经过这么几十年的带节奏发展过程,已经形成了相当大的一批拥趸,TA们凡是遇到中国的一切都要反对,西方国外的不管是什么都要捧上天捧到睾跪致畸的程度,要当一个实实在在的跪族和跪奴.
引用;" 罢工你申请能批准得了? 工人阶级被彻底抛弃了，娘不疼，爹不爱，比农民都不如，手里没有一分生产资料，只能靠出卖劳力为生!"
这还是2015年的现实事实发生后的评论.醒醒吧,中国劳动者们!
现在简单分析下,中国的弱势群体几乎只有任劳任怨的社会中下层男性群体,为什么这么说,因为女性群体(不指所有女性群体)不管顶层还是底层(那些连算人的利用价值都没有的女性不在此列)都是依附,都已经被马X这样资本家用消费主义,拜金主义给捧杀掉了,处于迷失自我的状态中.并且TA们的生存还是社会中下层男性群体在996.icu所表达的社会风气(潜规则,默认规则)没日没夜加班加点地赶出来在供着.
中国的社会中下层男性群体劳动者们,我只能说,我们没有一个可以依靠的方式和方法可以保障我们的生存权利(看清楚,不是所谓的合法权益),真的如国际歌里唱的"要全靠我们自己",现在不管是内还是外对我们的生存威胁都已经产生了难以想象的巨大规模.
我们真的只能独立自主,自立自强地寻找真正的出路在哪里!要斩断任何依赖依靠思想.

想要完全自有体系独立自主自控就得不加依赖地完全从零建造一切,
想要具备从零开始建造一切的能力,首先就是得具备从零开始建造一切的思维.

这是我昨天与人辩论后得出的结论.放弃一切幻想,准备脚踏实地地战斗.

酷睿架构是以色列人搞的，f2fs是韩国人搞的，Linux内核是芬兰人搞的，什么完全自主本来就是跟这个开源社群搞对立，搞事呢？

[est]

In China, it may be more OK to use that language, because it doesn't carry the original, BLM meaning. But in the United States, it's tacky.

Tend to agree with this one. I believe OP have a good intention. THanks OP.

[caffeine-overload]

Jeez, this is peak Baizuo. And it's not so much the premise, but how he went about it.

"'$foo lives matter' has a context of racial conflict in the USA and could be controversial to some people" is a much nicer and more civil way to go about it, and could have avoided this falling out.

[nebkor]

@caffeine-overload Hey, thanks for weighing in!

This issue is closed, so I wasn't really going to re-engage, but I did want to address what you said here. You claim that if I had just phrased the request differently, it would not have been taken badly, but I don't think that's true at all. For as much as @fmd was full of shit, he did say at least one truthful thing in good faith: it doesn't matter how cheerfully it's said, the request itself, to consider how something might impact someone else you don't care about, is offensive.

I knew it wouldn't be obvious that the language in the US context was problematic, which is why I laid out the justifications as I did. Had I simply said as you suggest, every single person here who said, "How is it bad to say that, how does it diminish the original context?" would still be dissatisfied.

So, no, it's not how I went about it. It's not that I phrased it wrong. It's that the request itself, that the language not suck (I'm done being diplomatic, since it no longer matters), that's intrinsically offensive. It doesn't matter how nicely it's asked, some people will just be furious that you've pointed out an issue and suggested a solution.

[caffeine-overload]

@nebkor

Trust me, it would have been taken better. To some people, I think your words came across as "I am an enlightened western white boy here to enforce my political correctness on these backwards Chinese people".

My phrasing would have come across as "Here is a tip to get more international allies". It changes it from a combative/patronizing stance to a neutral stance.

Wording makes a world of difference. I know you did not intend to upset anyone or cause division.

Maybe someone who is actually Chinese can chime in on the best way for a foreigner to go about things like this for future reference, as unnecessary conflict should be avoided as much as possible, given this thread was almost a complete s***show.