BETA: AIMSICD-Installer on GooglePlay #202
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Good evening, @bili123! Thank you for opening this Issue. Just for all the others following, our statement about GooglePlay is to be found in our FAQ. But personally speaking, I agree with your main points.
Since you seem to not be the only one screaming to have some sort of launcher on GooglePlay, we've been thinking about creating an AIMSICD-Installer, which just pulls the APK from GitHub and launches this right afterwards. Would that be a solution to this Issue and the whole GooglePlay thing in general?
Well, when I release the AIMSICD-Installer, I will make sure to add some relavant information to that page and maintain it properly. But in our eyes creating a separate APK just for more information is overkill. On the official GooglePlay page (if @E3V3A and @He3556 agree that I should create one), I will add links to relevant news so that people know whether installing our App is a good thing or not. Fair solution? |
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indeed, some kind of existance on Google Play would rise up our hits and downloads. But we should think about the right time to do this. |
From my point of view that would be perfectly fine, it's just all about giving users an easy and - can't believe I'm writing this - trustworthy place to get the app. (That information app thing was just meant as an alternative if a simple lauchner wouldn't work for any reason, so forget that.) |
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That's actually an interessting point @bili123. A simple download link - or even automatic forwarding could violate against the terms and conditions. |
Another reason why GooglePlay is so unfriendly towards projects like ours. I don't get why Google crafted such a funky Android system but refuses to make GooglePlay a better place for publishers. Where exactly in the terms does Google prohibit that an App published there fetches an APK and executes it? Here is another tricky idea: @He3556, how about an App that does nothing else than display our QR skull and show a sentence like But I wonder why |
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Looking at my daily XPosed log, on what the GooglePlay app is tying to access, install, remove and update, including app lists, phone and SMS records and extremely detailed location info. I'm more than confident to say that using GooglePlay and any of their related products, for privacy oriented apps, are just a hairs width away from insanity. So if people are interested in privacy, they should simply stay away from the NSA/Google snuggle bunny! And if they're not interested in keeping up our privacy, they don't need and shouldn't use this app. |
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That said, it doesn't mean I'm against having a GP installer app, just that the user think twice before installing it, as it would be equivalent to actually having our app on GP, minus the other drawbacks. |
Thanks for taking a strong stand against using GooglePlay, @E3V3A. I fully support your reasoning (and really feel shitty about being pushed to even register with GooglePlay and maintain that page), but even though we have a huge follower base, I also do understand that people would like to see some sort of project reference on GooglePlay. What do you think of this proposal here, @E3V3A and @He3556?
The only thing I worry about, would be that people will actually complain underneath our App page and discredit it because we only provide a launcher. Let me know what you think about this, @bili123. |
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We should wait with this. I don't think we should put an alpha stage app on GP. Everyone would just complain that it doesn't work and give it bad ratings. |
Fully agree. Renamed this Issue and put it on the waiting list for |
I bet some will, there are always bad comments about apps that aren't exactly what users expect. Hard to say if the benefits through more attention overweigh any discredits.
but most people are on GP, so I guess that's a good place to tell them "Hey, think about privacy!". And what would do that job better than an app, that's interesting enough to at least install and try it.
Definitely. |
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@bili123, there are a few more things that kept us from publishing anything on the crappy PlayStore:
Tell me how to fully stay anonymous and use this place for free. Their developer rules make me angry! And just between us: The idea of a launcher or anything else for more publicity is great, but we have enough followers - we need more DEVELOPERS! Those script kiddies from GooglePlay won't help us any! Show me ONE App that successfully drew more attention to development. If looking at famous Apps that have been crafted on XDA and put on GooglePlay, all I see is that people are actually putting negative ratings or more wishes on GooglePlay, rather than actually helping. As for me, Google = NSA.
Which closes the circle for me. I guess if we cannot circumvent the above, we should really avoid it. On the other hand: Any dude could upload our App there and promote it as his own project. I don't like that much either. So what do you suggest to do, @He3556? I feel kinda stuck on this. Too emotional for me. EDIT: I am registering with fake data right now. Expect me to be on GooglePlay later today, I will update this Issue once I have uploaded a launcher. I hope you will thank us will a pull request for all this.. |
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Yes you need to pay but if I unterstood correct you can use Google Play gift cards to pay. For the rest you could use fake data or ask somebody who has no problem with deanonymization. |
Thanks, @andr3jx. I will fully register with fake data and pay with a gift card. Stay tuned. |
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@SecUpwN We don't need to host our app on Google Play yet. We will consider this step when we are in Beta stage. |
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@SecUpwN I didn't find enough sources which confirm that you can pay the registration fee with the gift card. Let's assume I was wrong. |
You are right, @andr3jx. But I guess publishing the launcher with the QR code can be done any time.
I will just give it a try. If it doesn't work, I will delete my account there and let you folks know here. |
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The QR code idea is ridiculous. |
A ridiculous store does not deserve non-ridiculous Apps.
So there is no way other than giving away all private information, adding a real credit card and be completely identified through the whole process? The more I think about all this and which sort of "launcher" to put there, the creepier it gets. Anyone respecting our work should just refrain from using GooglePlay and down-/uploading our App from there. I keep thinking about really closing down this GooglePlay Issue until some sort of anonymous payment is possible. But as long as that does not happen, I do NOT want our App to be featured there at all - no launcher, no link, no nothing. And to make my point clear: I will personally hunt anyone uploading our App there. Why? Because Open Source and FOSS blood is pumping through my veins - GooglePlay is doing the complete opposite here. We are on Aptoide, GitHub and F-Droid, also we have a large number of great Press Releases - anyone interested in privacy and googling up IMSI-Catchers will instantly find us. @bili123, may I close this for good and link it in our FAQ? If you see a way to anonymously pay the $25 registration fee (other than letting anyone else upload our App to their own store), let me know. I am still open for suggestions. |
yes, completely convinced, this credit card stuff's just nuts.
I'll take a look, but ... |
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You guys are cracking me up! Thanks for the pre-Xmas excitement. @SecUpwN I'm totally with you all the way on this. If you really want to use a CC to pay, sign up for the Abine (recommended) anonymizing service or Entropay. They offer such a solution. However, I know Google sometimes ask for a phone number so they can send you an authentication token via SMS. So you need a pre-paid SIM card and a burner phone (since they'll surely also register your IMEI with that SMS.) |
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There is also a possibility to pay with a prepaid Visa Card. You can buy it without providing personal information on petrol stations for example. |
@E3V3A, what do you mean by that? Are you excited we are still trying to put something there, or do you enjoy that we rubb our asses just to find out that GooglePlay provides hurdles behind every wall? @andr3jx thanks for the recommendation with the prepaid VISA card. I will see when and if I can get one and let you know on the process here. But what exactly to upload on GooglePlay then? |
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I repeat: For now we don't need GP, we will consider to upload an installer when we are in Beta stage. |
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Are we still considering this? Perhaps we can close this...for now? |
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Since our App has been published on GooglePlay without asking us beforehand (App is already filed for removal and "author" properly notified, thus I won't link it), I am reopening this and will create an official GooglePlay Account for our App after it has been removed by the other uploader. Since we still stand strong to our opinion against GooglePlay, we want to upload an Installer that does the following things:
Does that sound like a good solution to this problem, @E3V3A and @He3556? |
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Sound excellent! The downloader app should also display the signature of the downloaded version for easy verification with our GitHub releases. |
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@E3V3A, I would like to keep development of the downloader app on our GitHub here as well. Shall I add a new branch for this or what would you prefer? |
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That's not a new branch, that would be a new repo. See internal chat. |
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With more bad news of Google turning up, we've finally DITCHED this idea. Please do NOT upload our app on GooglePlay (not even as a re-branded installer) and carefully read our statement. Thank you! |
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@SecUpwN https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.SecUpwN.AIMSICD is still live. =( |
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And blatant copies...without any cred references. |
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For the record, (& I have followed all the arguments from the beginning) not having an official presence on GPlay encourages this kind of misbehavior, & also makes it harder to enforce claims of IP infringement. |
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The issue is that we would like to have an installer presence in GP, but that we: (a) Refuse to pay for it while (b) give up our anonymity in the process. If any one of our trusted developers feel he's got nothing to loose here, they're certainly free to make it such. |
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I'm not disagreeing with any of that; just pointing out Google's rules favor them_selves_ 1st, even above AICD's intellectual property rights. Other than tagging these IP infringement while in Play Store, is there a more effective way to complain? |
I guess there is: But this has to be done by the official "copyright holder." Is this you, @SecUpwN? |
Thanks for notifying me, @TPS. I can't visit the URL, it seems to have been taken down already.
I have been writing a message to that guy already to stop copying our work and respecting the GPL - without any effect. Thanks to the link of @TPS, I just filed a copyright infringement. And to be honest: I am pretty sick of this shit and keep playing with the thought of giving up and providing our app on this shitty GPlay store - but then, I am very reluctant to even see it there, even if someone else would do it! |
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@SecUpwN I think it's not taken down; I think the guy blocked your country or something, as I can directly get to it from the link still. This guy really frosts me! (Since especially he doesn't update nor give credit.) 😡 It's obviously still worth filing on that 1st 1, then.… |
@TPS, I am quite happy that he does not update. Other than that, I hereby grant permission to you to act on my behalf and file a proper and well-written copyright infringement on that copy. For the future, I guess we should find someone working for GooglePlay and being able to remove stuff if we tell him/her. |
Problem with that is that most people will then find that version of AICD first when searching for in the their logical starting place — Google Play. 99% of people would never even think to look further, &, when they've problems, then they'll rate AICD poorly, which ends up in Google search ratings, which ruins this project's (& all its hard-working devs') reputation. It took me months to discover the Play store "version" wasn't official! Regardless, I'm happy to file the report on your behalf. Do you have a copy of the report you already filed, to avoid missing anything important? Else, I will post here, with what I come up with before I submit, to get feedback, ok? |
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@TPS, I do get the point regarding our reputation and I feel the need for our project to hack around the GooglePlay privacy breaches. If there was a way for to register an account without spending money and losing privacy, I'd create an official one ASAP - feel free to help me digging one up and send it to my email address. Other than that, I have not kept a copy of my report. Just explain in simple words what you just mentioned and maybe even link to this discussion, if you wish.
No, please don't. I want avoid to resurrect this Issue from the dead. Too many people involved. And just to mention it: Our app is called "AIMSICD" in short, not "AICD" - please use that in further postings. ;-) |
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Have you thought about adding the fact, that AIMSICD is not available in the PlayStore, to the app itself? That way a user who wants to tell other people about the app is reminded to tell them where (not) to look for the app. |
@vanitasvitae, it is mentioned everywhere across our project and we also linked this FAQ entry. Feel invited to craft a pull request if you'd like to see an improvment on our app somewhere. Thank you. |
Hi there! I do understand the issues with Google Play and its policies but there's one problem regarding mainstream users: What's not on Play, barely exists. F-Droid ist great but even most techies don't really care about it. I wrote dozens of articles about it and the feedback was - well, what feedback ...
So it would be great to find a way to get on Google, a simple launcher would do the job.
But even if it's not the app itself: I don't love the idea, but just to get thinking started: What about some sort of IMSI Catcher Information App with basic information about AIMSICD, IMSI Catcher, background articles (wikipedia) and all above a launcher or link. Just a first brainstormed idea ...
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