Skip to content
New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

Sign up for GitHub

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Jump to bottom

Platinum Open Access Pledge #5

Open
CooperSmout opened this issue Jul 22, 2020 · 23 comments
Open

Platinum Open Access Pledge #5

CooperSmout opened this issue Jul 22, 2020 · 23 comments
Labels
live-campaign-comments

Comments

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member

CooperSmout commented Jul 22, 2020 •
edited

Note: Comments for this campaign are mirrored from our Github repository to the website. Please feel free to add comments at either location.
@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

CooperSmout commented Jul 22, 2020 •
edited

It's been suggested we shouldn't use the terms 'Platinum Open Access' and 'Gold Open Access', because it's not immediately clear what these terms mean and because the term 'Gold' has been corrupted from it's original no-fee meaning to include author-pays OA. I ran a twitter poll on this a while back, and most people thought the term 'No-fee Open Access' would be better for this campaign, so I'm considering changing the title to this, if anyone has any thoughts on that.

@CooperSmout CooperSmout mentioned this issue Jul 22, 2020
Open
@RP87
Copy link

RP87 commented Jul 22, 2020

It's been suggested we shouldn't use the terms 'Platinum Open Access' and 'Gold Open Access', because it's not immediately clear what these terms mean and because the term 'Gold' has been corrupted from it's original no-fee meaning to include author-pays OA. I ran a twitter poll on this a while back, and most people thought the term 'No-fee Open Access' would be better for this campaign. As such I'm planning to change the title to 'No-fee Open Access', unless there are objections from the community. If you support the change please 'thumbs up' this comment, or alternatively post any objections below.

I'm wondering what schema could clarify each one. I believe one origin of CC licenses success is 'readability' - 'expressiveness'.

No-Fee for no APC no Subscription, distinguish from DOI-cost applied for instance (so it seems less vague as "fair" can be), but it is still limited in my opinion.

I'm thinking to other attributes.
Positives:

  • Rights-Retained: RR (opposed to Rights Ceded RC)
  • Copylefted 🄯 (not simple by keyboards, potential issue for viral use, or maybe it's an occasion to implement nice shortcut)
  • Semantic-Code: SC (or Machine Readability: MR, it seems clearer)

Negatives:

  • No-Paywall: NP / No-Subscription NS (I've no idea of alternative use of subscription though we should check)
  • No-Embargo: NE
  • No-AuthorPublicationCharges: NA (N-APC feels still long)
  • Not-Bundled: NB ? (Publishers tend to group titles for subscription, and as such, they could link RCP-NE-journals to their N-PEA-journal "No-Fee OA journal" so the cost would be supported elsewhere.) This particular attribute targets publisher as any lucrative publisher holding a No-Fee-OA-journal (N-PEA) would necessary be in that position.

Aggregated of course, so many attribute can be transmitted. For instance: "I want a 🄯-MR-No-PEAB journal for my publication in LCA field."

A thing short and clear, easy to use and understand is required for effect. Probably keyboard-friendly to ease the use too. Twit-clashes compatible (so high density) seems a good characteristics. Buzz is required.

You'll tell me. But for sure, I think No-Fee is better than initially gold now platinum or diamond.
@+ (a french "CU")
Rudy

_"Hey dude, what kind of journal do you support ?

  • You know guy, I'm for the No-PE.
  • What !? No way. Nope, I'm not writing with you dude. You can't be my co-author. My work is No-PEAB at least. What kind of researcher are you dude ?"_

(You're not in my head, but I assure you: I hear those two arguing.)

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

I look forward to the day we can sling acronyms at one another :) unfortunately most people don't understand those attributes well enough to explain them, let alone adopt acronyms, so for now I think we're stuck with descriptions!

But you raise a good point about how specific the criteria should be. At the beginning of this project I hunted around for a progressive set of rules we could aim for and found the Fair Open Access Principles, which I'm a big fan of. The first draft of this campaign even asked people to pledge to exclusively support FOAA journals (indexed in the Free Journal Network), but an advisor suggested scaling back the criteria because it would exclude many progressive journals that comply with some but not all of the principles (e.g., community ownership). Since the goal of this campaign is widespread adoption, I thought it best to use a more inclusive/general definition. Not to say that we couldn't clarify the terms better though.

Perhaps a glossary that we link to on the website?

@CooperSmout CooperSmout added campaign (live) draft-campaign Collective action campaign proposed for project FOK labels Jul 26, 2020
@CooperSmout CooperSmout changed the title Campaign: Platinum Open Access Campaign: Support fee-free open access journals (formerly 'Platinum Open Access') Sep 6, 2020
This was referenced Sep 15, 2020
Open
Closed
Closed
@MalikaIhle
Copy link

the pledge reads 'Your pledge will only go into effect if a critical mass of peers in your field sign the same pledge' but when opening the pledge form there was no place for me to indicate my field of research. I thought perhaps this was indicated in my ORCID since we're asked to sign in from there but I don't think it is. How will you activate pledge per field then?
If you want a drop down menu, another thing to decide would be to which level of details you would want to go to. See for instance this BePress 3-tier format. I would suggest tier 2: this is where we identify our community I think - with a big chunk of them (people from the level 3 you would tick) publishing in the same journals as you. Level 1 don't have much influence on your own carrier I would think.

@CooperSmout CooperSmout changed the title Campaign: Support fee-free open access journals (formerly 'Platinum Open Access') Campaign: Support no-fee open access journals (formerly 'Platinum Open Access') Sep 21, 2020
@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

How will you activate pledge per field then?

I was thinking we could use the Dimensions app, which classifies publications into a specific Field of Research code. Their taxonomy looks roughly equivalent to the BePress Tier 2 taxonomy you linked, but with the added bonus that people and their articles could be classified objectively by feeding their publications (from their ORCID profile) into Dimensions. I feel this could be particularly useful for people whose research spans multiple fields and can't easily self-identify into one field.

I was also thinking that we'd need to classify individual articles to calculate impact-based thresholds for each field, because these are based on the impact of individual articles relative to the entire field (also available in Dimensions). But as per issue #10, we might move away from impact-based thresholds to something simpler, and if we do that, we could potentially move to a simpler classification mechanism, like the dropdown menu you suggest.

@evaherbst
Copy link

Hi @CooperSmout, I found this through the OLS-2 group, and wanted to read more about your project.
Is there an index somewhere of these no-fee open access journals?

@RP87
Copy link

RP87 commented Sep 24, 2020 via email

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

CooperSmout commented Sep 25, 2020 •
edited

Hi @CooperSmout, I found this through the OLS-2 group, and wanted to read more about your project.

Thanks for joining the discussion @evaherbst! :)

Is there an index somewhere of these no-fee open access journals?

Not that I know of, unfortunately. The Free Journal Network indexes journals that comply with the Fair Open Access principles, but this is excludes many progressive journals due to their commercial nature or other non-compliant features (e.g., eLife, NBDT, F1000). DOAJ lists all open access journals, but then doesn't have an easy reference list for which of these are fee-free. I had wondered about whether we could partner with DOAJ to create a sub-index of no-fee journals, similar to what they do for their seal of approval. They do have a record of APCs (see this link for Frontiers in Neuroscience, which charges $2950 to publish), so it might not be too difficult to achieve.

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

CooperSmout commented Sep 25, 2020 •
edited

While discussing in an interview, the Aperture project was mentioned

@RP87 thankyou! To be honest I didn't understand what Aperture was when it was brought up in that interview, so I'm grateful for the link.

In the 'targeting editorial board approach' I mentioned

Where was this mentioned? (sorry, too many forums!) but if it's an idea for a new campaign feel free to post as a separate issue so we can discuss separately and keep discussions organised. I know that a similar idea was suggested by @crsh (Frederik Aust) in the Pubreform forum but I haven't connected with him on that idea since.

@CooperSmout CooperSmout mentioned this issue Sep 28, 2020
Open
@CooperSmout CooperSmout mentioned this issue Oct 6, 2020
Open
24 tasks
@CooperSmout CooperSmout changed the title Campaign: Support no-fee open access journals (formerly 'Platinum Open Access') 2019-07-13-platinum-oa-pledge Dec 2, 2020
@CooperSmout CooperSmout changed the title 2019-07-13-platinum-oa-pledge Platinum Open Access Pledge Dec 2, 2020
@CooperSmout CooperSmout added live-campaign-comments and removed draft-campaign Collective action campaign proposed for project FOK live labels Dec 2, 2020
@dylangomes utterances
Copy link
Contributor

I haven't read all the above threads, so I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but what do we think about a crowdsourced list of journals that are OA and the status of fees, etc.? This would be a way for people to assess the feasibility of each OA pledge. I have found some lists like this in various places (for various fields), but they all appear outdated and Free Our Knowledge seems to be a perfect place to keep this information.

@CooperSmout utterances
Copy link
Member Author

The closest I found to such a list is Sherpa Romeo, which displays whether the journal charges an APC, but I can't find an easy way to filter down to just those journals in a particular field that are fee-free.

Agree that such a list would be incredibly useful. Even if we just had it for one field, we could start a new campaign targeting just those journals, so that researchers have a clearer idea about what journals they are pledging to support. I think this was a big problem with the present campaign and could be done better next time.

I know it's not your field @dylangomes, but we started a comparable whitelist of non-commercial Psychology journals here for this campaign. I'm not convinced Github is the best place for such lists, however -- perhaps some kind of wiki would be better.

@RP87
Copy link

RP87 commented Aug 24, 2021 via email

@RP87
Copy link

RP87 commented Aug 24, 2021 via email

@daaronr utterances
Copy link

daaronr commented Sep 15, 2021 •
edited

I'll try to do this even unconditionally, but co-authors and (?funders) may want the traditional publications on occasion .. thus I put a 20% threshold.

Sad truth is there seems to be nothing 'highly valued' in Economics that is in this category.

Ideally I'd like to find ways to get beyond the traditional 0/1 reject/accept static endpoint journal system (see my unjournal thoughts (LINK FIXED @CooperSmout) and discussion ... note, I'm moving the organization to HERE. I think these initiatives and pledges are helpful to this end.

Great initiative.

@RP87
Copy link

RP87 commented Sep 16, 2021 via email

@RP87
Copy link

RP87 commented Sep 16, 2021 via email

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

I put a 20% threshold

Thanks for the pledge!

Sad truth is there seems to be nothing 'highly valued' in Economics that is in this category.

Same in my field of cognitive neuroscience. But this is the point in the pledge, to imbue those currently undervalued journals with value.

More recently I've been thinking that this campaign should be more explicit about the journals we want to support. E.g. in my field there's an overlay journal called NBDT that's relatively new, has a great community behind it, but lacks the 'prestige' factor. So I was thinking that we could create a new campaign asking neuroscientists to exclusively support NBDT, or even just to submit a single paper there / give NBDT first preference on any new papers submitted. I wonder if such a campaign would get more traction, since it's more tractable/clearly feasible (as per @dylangomes comment above)?

Are there any such journals in economics that we could target with a new campaign? Or ecology @dylangomes?

Ideally I'd like to find ways to get beyond the traditional 0/1 reject/accept static endpoint journal system (see my unjournal thoughts and discussion). I think these initiatives and pledges are helpful to this end.

Me too! :) Keen to read more but the link is broken -- please repost.

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

But it could be nice to complete the pledges with "tasks". Ex: I pledge to X. I've to do A, B, C and can do D, E etc.

Yes indeed! This sounds a bit like what we're hoping to do with the ambassador role, which is a new idea we'll be trialling with the open code pledge. The basic idea is to recruit people who are willing to do more than just pledge, e.g. promote the campaign in small but regular ways throughout the campaign life. People would sign up separately to each campaign as an ambassador, so the task list would vary depending on the campaign. I like your suggestions for OA tasks @RP87!

If there's interest in developing a new OA campaign (or campaigns), then we could turn those suggestions into a task list for OA ambassadors to complete when the campaign launches.

@dylangomes
Copy link
Contributor

Are there any such journals in economics that we could target with a new campaign? Or ecology @dylangomes?

@CooperSmout It isn't an ecology-only journal, but PeerJ stands out to me as a journal with open science in mind, a great community, but lacking that 'prestige' factor. I have been trying pretty hard to support them. It is really affordable to publish with them as well as they have lifetime memberships (or a relatively low-cost one time APC).

@daaronr
Copy link

daaronr commented Sep 30, 2021

@CooperSmout I agree with the idea of coalescing around a single or a few journals or processes.

I fixed the link to my 'unjournal thoughts' (it seems like github issues needs you to put the https thing or it thinks you want to stay within github)

As you will see in my discussion there, I am more in favor of the

  • post your paper (or better, your project) on an archive and get a DOI
  • build and support organized, integrated processes for evaluating, giving feedback, and having clear rating systems for these projects ... rather than the clutter of multiple 'journals'

That said, if we can converge on a process where the "journals"

  • are open access
  • allow and support easy hosting of projects (especially dynamic documents)
  • and, most importantly, give a public evaluation to your project (and allow you to improve it for another evaluation), rather than playing the risky and tiring strategic dance of sequential submissions to multiple journals...

I would be equally happy.

@CooperSmout
Copy link
Member Author

@daaronr totally agree with those points! Especially about building "clear rating systems for these projects rather than the clutter of multiple journals". I should have mentioned here but I've since discovered your post at On Science and Academia and gave a quick reply -- will post more next week when I've looked through your proposal properly. Let's pick up the conversation there, because it seems a more appropriate forum for the broad topics we're discussing. Look forward to chatting more.

@CooperSmout utterances
Copy link
Member Author

DOAJ lists all open access journals, but then doesn't have an easy reference list for which of these are fee-free

Apparently I was wrong about this, there is a way to search for fee-free OA journals in DOAJ. This advice copied from a thread on RG in which someone has started writing a list manually (but using DOAJ makes more sense to me):

www.doaj.org -- this website's search features allow you to search for open access journals with no APC. Click on Search [in the orange bar], limit to journals [left hand facets] , expand APC facet, select No [No APC that is] then search by subject.

@petersuber utterances
Copy link

Here's a twitter thread on how to find the no-fee OA journals in DOAJ. I'm sorry that DOAJ makes it so difficult.
https://twitter.com/petersuber/status/1468638297043849216

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment
Assignees
No one assigned
Labels
live-campaign-comments
Projects
None yet
Milestone
No milestone
Development

No branches or pull requests
7 participants
@daaronr @RP87 @MalikaIhle @evaherbst @dylangomes @CooperSmout @petersuber