[#SomeChanges Suggestion] Archaeology - make it more bearable - QoL change(s) is needed #1189
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The easiest solution is just make it so every craft permanently increases the chance of seeing one of the items that have been given an uber rare chance, it's odd that they're considered "rare" artifacts but are considerably more rare than the toys, pets, or mounts. If Cata was gunna last like 2 years with nothing to do, sure, I could dig dig dig, but we're only rolling for 9 months this time around. Archaeology should be made reasonable to complete within that time. |
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nobody is forcing you to giga degen min max grind, if you want to do it you should be prepared for it |
This really isn't a great argument. Yes, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything in a video game, but that doesn't mean a poorly designed system shouldn't be improved when it is re-released. |
I see your argument but I would disagree. Most people play the game for the gear, at certain level gear is even mandatory. Top guilds will require people to farm this, it can be difference maker between you getting into the raid and not getting there (even if only for ilvl). But even if the whole system would not be mandatory, it is very poor excuse for bad design in my opinion. /e also problem is you have NO idea how much time you will spend here. If someone would tell me I will need to spend 30 hours, I would knew I am getting close. If someone would say 300 hours, I would knew I should avoid this and found different activity worth my time in the game. |
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we talk about a mainhand weapon here that is bis until you get heroic raid weapons, its better than 25 normal raid weapons which could also require you several IDs of farming with bad luck coming into play. so i dont see a reason why you would speed this progress up drastically when it comes to earning powerful items before the main expansion releases |
The average speed of progression is not the primary issue that's causing so much community frustration with the system, it's the massive variance in that speed. MMO players are often totally fine with long grinds, but players in general do not enjoy hugely non-deterministic grinds where there is no sense of real progress or reward for time put in if you get unlucky. |
For the same reason they reworked r14/PvP system for SoM and SoD servers. Because its disgusting gamedesign |
i spent more than 15 weeks during wotlk classic trying to get a raid trinket but it did not drop and im not the only one in a situation like this. did we complain and spam about a way to get it more reliably? no, it is what it is |
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This design is horrible, there is literally hundreds of players on my server alone farming this non stop. No, we dont 'have' to do it but its the modern game, people want bis, there is nothing else we 'have' to do and people are addicted, as the game is designed. |
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i can just repeat myself, this is an ancient mmo grind game based to make you spend time as much as possible, this is why you run to quests, farm, grind non stop and this is just part of it. if you want to opt in for quick catchup and farming try new expansions that suit your play style more. also you are not in a rush, you can try to farm the weapons over the next few weeks instead of completely giving up everything else right now. these items are account-bound raid level items usable on multiple alt characters so they should be really really rare and challenging to get. |
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I agree, can we perhaps get some bad luck protection on this? I believe this not to be the Blizzard Philosophy anymore and while i still think the bad luck protection would still need you to get a lot of solves done it does need to have a clear end. |
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We definitly need Badluck Protection. |
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As someone who's now done over 800 solves and has no useful epics proc (my only epics are the Dressing Gown, and the Nerubian toy), I am also very much in favour of adding some form of BLP to Archaeology.
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i dug up whole kalimdor and eastern kingdom every day since prepatch, getting close to 1000 solves (on my main). already levelled my alts archeology to try the tactic not solving any of the target races fragments (got the same rare toys what i had before). i'm usually against changes, i do like challenges and grindy stuff, but this is just boring, unfun, and upsetting because i only need nelf and dwarf now and the rng spawns only fossil and troll stuff like all the time... i cant even be bothered to pick up the stuff i don't need and stop to solve them, i just want to finish a site to spawn a new and hope for one that i actually need. |
This is exactly sentiment I am seeing all around classic communities. People are not having fun playing because game pushes them this direction due to quality of gear possible to gain from this and are legit feeling helpless, some even did quit prepatch due to this. I am not sure Archaeology can be made fun but having at least some sense of progression or estimation when you should get these items would help them enjoy the game and ultimately would boost player numbers in my opinion. |
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remove epic weapons from this profession or disable it until official game launch or replace weapon rewards with different vanity items like mounts and the profession is better off. also up to this date archaeology has always been an insanely grind heavy activity, even if you were to do it in retail dragonflight right now. however if blizzard deemed it worthy to increase the odds of getting a certain reward they would have done it back in the days as im certain people complained back then as well if it was so unbearable? or was it not possible to complete this weapon farm during pre patch in the first cataclysm release years ago? |
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This profession sincerely requires some love. It is senseless that some of my friends have over 800 solves, 300-400 on Troll/Dwarf with no end in sight. Please take care of this. |
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Yes please, some form of bad luck protection would be good.. Example 50: Example 100: Alternatively make it Dynamic and increase the chance by 0.01% or 0.02% every solve. Which would atleast make the insane diggers under us get something in return for all the effort they put in :) |
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to quote blizzard during original cataclysm, when archaeology was not even available during pre-patch (another mistake by blizzard in 2024) "it (archaeology) could be punishingly random, especially for players who imagined that it would be a guaranteed delivery mechanism for zin'rokh (which was never the intention)." so as you can see there is no need to change the profession now as it is not in line with how blizzard wanted the profession to be. it was meant to make players explore the world and experience the lore of the game and not mindlessly farm a raid-tier level weapon. |
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Bad luck protection needed to happen already, I can't believe how it's still not a thing. And I don't mind that it will benefit other people a lot more than me at this point, I'm 1500 solves deep, 13 (now 14) days of hardcore digging and I just want it to end. But let me turn this rant into a proper arguement. Classic players to love optimize, love to minmax, love to be on top of their game. We're not here to discover the hot water or egg boiling, we're here to find the best and fastest way possible to boil the egg. The archaeology epics are pre-raid bis, the 2h sword is actually 2nd bis to the heroic Nefarian weapon, that a lot of people won't get anytime soon. Of course people will dig for it, it's a huge upgrade over the items they will have available on raid launch. We're not doing it because we enjoy digging, we're doing it because of the unbelievable power spike that we'll get from it. Comments saying "well you don't have to" are completely out of touch. Having the best gear available to us is the entire point of WoW so we can use it to kill dragons or other players. Not to mention people are gonna get benched from progress runs if they don't have the archaeology epics because of the difference they make. No one enjoys the current state of arhaeology. We're doing it because we have to. Because if we don't, we're gonna be left behind, we'll lose the race before it even starts. Was releasing the 359 epics during pre-patch a mistake? Most likely - yes. But that can't be fixed now. What can be fixed is reducing the requirement for the fossil pet down to 450 because we all hate the fossil spawns and adding bonus chance to discover the items ones we haven't solved yet, regardless of rarity, increased with each solve. This is a secondary profession, it's not supposed to be so impactful, but since it already is, at least balance it a little. Because in the current state I have 1500 solves and I am no closer to getting the items I need than a guy who is just learning archaeology at the trainer for the first time. We didn't have pre-patch event for cata, at least give us this. |
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I heard that BLP is not possible (technical/time reasons) at this point and that instead devs are thinking of doubling the number of digs you can do per digsite. Thus doubling the fragments per digsite but also doubling the time spend per digsite. This would decrease the time spent flying around. While keeping everything else the same. (activity wise) I would like to express here that this has 1 major flaw - people also would need to spend twice the amount of time on digsites that they dont want / need. and i think next to the pure RNG this is what bothers people the most. Instead i would suggest a combination of a few things: (if BLP really isnt possible)
So 60ish% bump in fragments and 50% bump in digSITES instead of 100% more digs per digsite,
As this accomplishes multiple things all at once:
Even with all that it would/could still mean that some people need to spend 100+ hours seeing that there are reports now of 1500+ solves with nothing to show for. so for that i would say implement one of the following as well:
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Interesting design philosophy coming from a notorious RMT abuser during tbc and wotlk (Gdkp/Arena Boost/Coaching). Guess some people really try to do everything to be "on top of their game". |
When you attack me with baseless accusations rather than addressing my arguement, I know I have won.
This does nothing. Most people have 200-300 solves. I have 1500 solves. I have a friend who passed 3000. The problem with the system is the fact that no matter how many solves you have, you will always have a realistic chance to never get your item. The amount of solves was never the issue, it's the drop rate.
Sadly this also changes nothing. Read above. We're already spending tens of thousands of gold on keystones and we're already avoiding fossils whenever possible. If you have the same chance to get the 359 at 200 solves and 2000 solves, then getting to 2000 solves faster doesn't change anything really.
That would be a slight QOL but also doesn't address the issue. There are plenty of keystones in the AH and they cost close to nothing, at prices of 50-70g you can probably self sustain them with solves if you're a bit lucky. The problem is still that using keystones doesn't bring us closer to the epic.
All of those sound really good as a QOL but in the end and as I said above with the current system a person with 2000 solves is no closer to getting a 359 than a person with 200. So getting to 2000 faster doesn't help with the issue at all. If Bad luck protection isn't a possibility, here's how I would very quickly fix the archaeology, instantly, with a hotfix that can be done in a day, without needing to change the design at all.
These wouldn't change anything in the current gameplay instead maybe make archaeology more desirable for people that didn't bother with it in the first place and at the same time make sure the rest of us don't get burned out from WoW a few days before cata launch. |
Agree, a big mistake to keep the hatchling at 525 while the 85 gear is 450. But too late for that to have any significant effect at this point, as we have a confirmation already that no changes will be made before launch. This should have been from the start and is 100% the biggest reason for me why i cant be bothered with grinding archeology anymore at now 750 solves.. Fossil spawns completely suck out any joy i had of doing it. Regarding your other comments, my post was because i heard (2nd hand, not 3th+) that devs wanted to double the diggs per digsite as the sole solution (post launch where the fossil pet is obtainable). All i intended to do here is speak up, as that on its own does little to nothing, while giving double the fragments per site also doubles the time spend per site, thus also double the time on sites you dont care for.. Solves per hour would go up by perhaps 40-50% if everything else stays the same. As you spend less time flying and more time on digsites but this, in my opinion, is not enough. As i understood from the same source is that BLP is not possible, If all my suggestions would be followed:
it would net around 2x the amount of desired solves while also 2x the chance to get the proc Not what i ideally want, as that would be BLP and compensating the people that have been digging for countless of hours already but at least i hope to bring something that has a chance of being implemented.. |
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regarding this
And for the argument made in the interview with Crix -> "Many people like doing archeology" First of i doubt that, looking at how the forums are exploding. |
True, most people on stream played with you because you are "on top of your game" and not because of all the Sub/Donation money and god knows what else. Anyway, it is not Blizzard burning you out here again, it is what you are doing to yourself. Nobody is forcing you to spend 20 hours a day on this game for virtually nothing, just to do 300 more DPS for one or two Raids before replacing the Archaeology weapons. If "hardcore" players really need Blizzard intervening by handing out loot as they demand to prevent burnouts the issue has a much deeper root. The forums are exploding as usual because satisfied players do not use their time to rage post online non stop because they enjoy the game environment, Also if you do it for one game in theory you have to apply it to Dragonflight as well since there are many players out there farming Scimitar as transmog for example but I have yet to see them rage post about it despite spending countless hours of farming at their own will. Again, why do you expect to get accelerated loot in this case, we should consider it for Raid loot then too, because you can go on an unlucky streak for weeks in a raid as well and never see the precious item you think you need so badly to "compete". |
Description
Most people playing the game right now are doing one thing and one thing only - digging. The reason is simple - preraid BiS pieces from Archaeology.
Problem is that this profession is insanely awfuly designed if you are simply not super lucky. Guilds / communities / class Discord are FULL of people just lamenting their luck over this activity (tens and tens of hours of endless grind without any item - literally thousands of solves and nothing - I myself am closing 1000 digs and honestly decided to stop doing this, it is not worth my time at current state). I would even say that for huge percentage of players it is ruining they Cata experience because instead of learning new spell, gameplay, characters or even experiencing changed zones in some fun way, all they are "forced" to dig all day and play super unfun slot machine with insanely low chance of actually winning something (let alone win the item you want).
I would like to think it was realised during later expansions and changed to make it easier. I strongly believe at least some QoL changes would be very very welcomed by community.
Increased chances for epic items, ability to focus on certain type of digsites (blocking all others), recycle common items for fragments. increased fragments drop... there are many many changes that would make this bearable.
/e see comments under https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/archaeology-fixes-are-now-live/1848782/2, https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/archaeology-fixes-are-now-live/511607/9 etc. - bad luck protection is very highly desired
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