[BUG] [Core] [Spell] [Warrior] [Rogue] Shield Wall should NOT be usable while Dismantled

[Evolvee]

1. Current Behavior

Currently its possible for a warrior to use Shield Wall while being dismantled (disarmed by a rogue).

1.2. How to Reproduce

       1. Create warrior.
       2. Create rogue.
       3. Duel each other.
       4. Let rogue use Dismantle.
       5. Observe that you are able to use Shield Wall as a warrior.

1.3 Source Material

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1582448398

As you can see, the warrior activates Shield Wall during the time he is still actively Dismantled.

2. Expected Behavior

You should NOT be able to use Shield Wall while disarmed by rogue.

2.2 Source Material

Video - https://youtu.be/6QCTkqM1JGE?t=79 --> Watch for the icon at Button4 position --> as you can see, the icon is grayed out the moment disarm hits, it gets active again once disarm falls off)

Comments - https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/698163-Dismantling-during-shield-wall

[Evolvee]

Ok, so after more testing the issue is the following:

If you get dismantled while wearing a 2H weapon, you can equip your shield and Shield Wall straight away.
If you get dismantled while wearing a 1H + Shield, you can not use shield wall.

TLDR: Dismantle only disarms the weapon type currently equipped.

This is obviously not intended behavior, especially not in a world of macros and automation where switching offhand and casting shield wall takes 0.001 seconds and there is no way to react and counter this playstyle.

This would, btw, also mean, that players can abuse /unequip macros before getting dismantled to COMPLETELY PREVENT any Disarm effects being applied. Hunters could potentially unequip their wep, get dismantled and then happily use Deterrence right after. Same for rogue vs rogue matchup.

The topic should be marked "NEED RESEARCH". There is no way anyone will ever find any video proof for this, as the conditions of this happening are absurd in the first place.

[Jgrenier91]

How would one prove this?

I am certain that warriors cannot shield wall while under the affects of dismantle in WOTLK.

[knasen88]

How is predicting a disarm and countering it bad design? Seems this feature is anything but bad design and gives potential outplay to a braindead disarm button.

[perpabc]

How is predicting a disarm and countering it bad design? Seems this feature is anything but bad design and gives potential outplay to a braindead disarm button.

this isn't a suggestion, it's a bug report. if you're disarmed, why would you be able to use abilities that require weapons

[dawidcxx]

How is predicting a disarm and countering it bad design? Seems this feature is anything but bad design and gives potential outplay to a braindead disarm button.

The fact that it requires a macro makes it a bad design, I doubt it was intended "Yeah so there is this disarm spell but if the player gets tricky with 1h/2h weapon swapping he can bypass it", I don't think so.

I would like to know exactly how it was working on reference. Forum posts aren't reliable, also I remember that for example disarming a blade storm was only possible later in the expac. So this behavior could have been changed throughout original wotlk.

[Shintaxgg]

https://youtu.be/XWpYHrRlakU?t=284
not a bug

[Evolvee]

Aight, I guess the topic should be re-marked as [#SomeChanges Suggestion], even though its an obvious exploit/not intended behavior.

[Jgrenier91]

https://youtu.be/XWpYHrRlakU?t=284 not a bug

Is this from a private server? It was posted the year after wotlk ended and the video description talks about "still playing wotlk" while playing cataclysm.

https://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=180025

It's my recollection that warriors simply couldn't wall while dismantled. It'd be super surprising if no warrior throughout the expansion figured this out to counter all of the RLS teams using this strategy.

[Evolvee]

I briefly checked the video for any private-server-only things and It looks like retail to me.

Back then, no private server had the aura stacking system working (buffs overwriting each other depending on time/value of the aura). It was first widely introduced around 2015/2016 (https://youtu.be/PZnYPAirIaY) so I would be surprised if this video from 2011 was from a private server.

For example in 4:48+ you can see the warrior has cripling poison, mage is casting frostbolts into him but frostbolt doesnt get applied. At 4:57 you can see the warrior with crippling poison getting cone of colded, crippling gets overwritten by cone of cold there.

At 2:44 you can see the little (*) sign indicating that the player is from another server:

No private server back then had crossrealm arenas working.

That being said, all the above applies only to NA/EU private servers, I have 0 clue about chinese/asia private server development scene.

[perpabc]

China had a much longer final patch of retail wrath so that video's legit

[Oliaxz]

I think its important to note that the requirement for shield wall is having a shield equipped, and not all disarms effect applies to shields. Dismantle however does seem to specify shields in its tooltip.

Question : if u dismantle someone with a shield, can u swap to a 2nd shield and not be disarmed/use shield wall? If so its quite broken.

If not it means disarms effect persist only on weapon type you currently had equipped when u got disarmed, and this does not seem that bad considering u have to be careful when u wear a shield and enemies disarms are off cooldown. For exemple, the war gotta choose between tanking a stun with shield and risk getting disarmed off of it/not be able to wall, or tank the stun with 2h to make sure he can shield wall after the stun. If u make it so dismantle is simply an anti shield button no matter what is going on, then the war has no counterplay to it. And since war are running around with 2h 99% of the time, it does not seem very fair. Its healthier i think if the war has some control over getting his shield wall off and also if the rogue has to make more difficult decisions. Otherwise, rogue will use it when hes low regardless of weap status, war dies and thats it.

[Evolvee]

Why would anyone ever use a shield, especially in a situation where there is a go on the warrior, if you know you have a guaranteed shield wall whenever you want? Not to mention equiping items isnt GCD-locked, it merely just refreshes current GCD, so you can rotate equipment instantly without giving enemy rogue any chance to dismantle shield. Especially with the great spell reflect bug that enabled you to preserve spell reflect buff while wearing 2H weapon during THE ENTIRE classic TBC (not sure if its still bugged).

If u make it so dismantle is simply an anti shield button no matter what is going on, then the war has no counterplay to it.

There shouldnt be any counterplay to it, the fact you have 50% reduced disarm duration by default without having to do anything is already a big noob-friendly discount. The current behavior isnt even a counterplay btw, its a pure hardcounter against burst-go on the warrior (now take into consideration that burst window "go" is usually the only chance for a win condition against pala war).

[Oliaxz]

Why would anyone ever use a shield, especially in a situation where there is a go on the warrior, if you know you have a guaranteed shield wall whenever you want? Not to mention equiping items isnt GCD-locked, it merely just refreshes current GCD, so you can rotate equipment instantly without giving enemy rogue any chance to dismantle shield. Especially with the great spell reflect bug that enabled you to preserve spell reflect buff while wearing 2H weapon during THE ENTIRE classic TBC (not sure if its still bugged).

If u make it so dismantle is simply an anti shield button no matter what is going on, then the war has no counterplay to it.

There shouldnt be any counterplay to it, the fact you have 50% reduced disarm duration by default without having to do anything is already a big noob-friendly discount. The current behavior isnt even a counterplay btw, its a pure hardcounter against burst-go on the warrior (now take into consideration that burst window "go" is usually the only chance for a win condition against pala war).

I would tend to agree with you if shield wall was on 1 min cd or dismantle on 5 min. It does not seem fair for the war if his 5 min cd can be countered by a 1min cd so reliably, since there would be nothing they could do to avoid it, not to mention when there is more than one disarm in the enemy comp (like psychic horror that can take care of bladestorm). Considering dismantle/dance are on 1 min cds, u can have 5 goes in 5 min. Is it really unhealthy for the game if 1 out 5 goes has a successful shield wall?

Anyway, I think we could debate this for a long time. But gotta find out if theres a bug or not first.

[Evolvee]

Well if you want to debate around cooldowns, then yea, we would be here for a long time. Shadowdance is definitely short, on the other hand shield wall used to be (and rightfully) 30 min CD for a good reason...

since there would be nothing they could do to avoid it,

You could easily pop the shield wall at the beggining of burst instead of being greedy and waiting for enemies to waste all their win condition cooldowns just to pop your one cooldown (shield wall) at 10% hp and auto-win the game because of it.

The meta would change in such a way that everyone would only focus the other partner a warrior is playing with because you would know the warrior is unkillable as long as he holds shield wall cd and there is nothing you can do about it...

[JamminL]

Marking this as somechange, because it is infact a NAB, but the intention behind this suggests this was a bug from back then.