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AUS - Status Quo, Military Occupation, Embrace Pluralism conditions #10678

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liach opened this issue Sep 22, 2020 · 3 comments
Closed
5 tasks

AUS - Status Quo, Military Occupation, Embrace Pluralism conditions #10678

liach opened this issue Sep 22, 2020 · 3 comments
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Suggestion - Specific For specific and actionable changes

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@liach
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liach commented Sep 22, 2020

Quick questions

HOI4 version: 1.9.3
Kaiserreich version: 0.14.2

Reasoning

Currently, the status quo, military occupation, and embrace pluralism conditions are fairly messy.

I will make a quick chart of how i think this should work:

big hungary stays killed hungary and occupied killed hungary and released
Invite only hungary status quo military occupation shouldn't allow
Invite all kingdom/ethnicity status quo military occupation embrace pluralism

Or the fates of hungary:

status quo embrace pluralism military occupation
🇦🇹 🎌 🇭🇺 🇦🇹 ⚔️ 🇭🇺 and released 🇦🇹 ⚔️ 🇭🇺 and not released

The status of the other kingdoms should not affect the path choice, as status quo austria has that 15-cost focus that cores other puppets if Austria offered secret deal.


For another potential ausgleich scenario where austria allows hungary to demand from illyria (but no secret deal), in my opinion, if austria fights on illyria's side against hungary than staying neutral, austria violates its promise and should still go military occupation. I wonder what the original intent is, and need explanation in this case most likely.

Describe the change you would like

Notice: these changes should be discussed before they are ever implemented. A review on ausgleich scenarios should be required.

  • Only allow hungary (slovakia/transylvania) release if the ausgleich invited all kingdoms or all ethnicities. Otherwise attack on hungary is really a show of military (no reason for any "reform" as said in option text, and no reason to release slovakia/transylvania) and should always count toward military occupation (currently only betrayal to secret deal is counted)
  • Allow going Status Quo as long as big old hungary is there (remove checks on state ownership). Current setup prevents going status quo as it doesn't allow you to hold puppet land, such as bohemia, you get from defeating revolt puppets from secret deal.
    • Does not allow going Status Quo when Austria holds land it doesn't have claim/core while hungary has. This way prevents Austria from going Status Quo within that time window for the fate of illyria
  • Require hungary to not exist for military occupation (remove checks on state ownership) as that's what the news event says
  • Maybe add a flag for hungary's internal events, only allow going status quo when big hungary has no internal demonstrations/have demonstrations all quelled without austria kick-in

Additional context or comments

In the news for military occupation, it indicates that hungary is no longer there when austria does military occupation focus. So that's a good reference.

If this plan is implemented, it may potentially fix #10366

@liach liach added the Suggestion - Specific For specific and actionable changes label Sep 22, 2020
@liach
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liach commented Sep 22, 2020

Also looking at the news:

During the Austro-Hungarian Ausgleich of 1937, the Austrian delegates promised their Hungarian counterpart that the historic Kingdom of Croatia - added to the newly created Kingdom of Illyria a decade ago - would be returned to the Transleithian half of the Empire. The Hungarians soon demanded that Vienna fulfill their end of the bargain, but the Imperial Government unexpectedly refused. The angered Hungarians attempted to retake Croatia-Slavonia by force, but were rebuffed by the Illyrian troops. Now Austria has entered the conflict in favor of the Illyrians, vowing to end Hungary’s delusions of mastery over the Empire.

Is this supposed to go status quo, pluralism, or military occupation afterwards?

@Vidyaorszag
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Vidyaorszag commented Oct 6, 2020

With issue 10366 fixed, I don't really see the point in implementing this honestly. The chain works fine as is and while the requirements are a bit messy, they are clear and relatively straightforward. Since the rework gets rid of the chain entirely, it's not worth the effort in my opinion.

As for the war over Illyria, it really can go any way depending on how Austria deals with Hungary at the end.

@liach
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liach commented Oct 6, 2020

My main concern is that the current setup in 0.14.2 prevents austria from going status quo after doing the secret deal: it goes military occupation and cannot core those lands with the status quo focus.

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