GVFS requires a OS downgrade to use

[MrStonedOne]

I don't see why I should have to downgrade from 7 to 10 to use this.

It should be easy enough to port to 7

[sanoursa]

GVFS requires Windows 10 Anniversary Edition or later

[MrStonedOne]

[bizzehdee]

Because that is what it is aimed at, because microsoft are a business at the end of the day whether you like it or not, they aim everything at their current GA product, which in this case, is Windows 10., GVFS is also open source, so feel free to back port it to Windows 7. You have everything you need right there: Source, Build tools, Operating System, Ungrateful attitude... Get on with it or be quiet.

[sanoursa]

In order to implement GVFS in an efficient way, we had to use a brand new feature of NTFS: the ability to create a special type of reparse point for a folder that is only partially populated on disk. With previous versions of NTFS, the only way to virtualize would have been to create reparse points for every single file ahead of time, which means we would lose one of the main benefits of GVFS, namely not having to place any files on disk if they're not needed, and prevent Git from having to iterate over all of those files.

[MrStonedOne]

It seems like the solution would be to back port that to 7 so people don't have to downgrade to windows 10 to use gitvfs.

You wouldn't happen to eat lunch with anybody on the ntfs team would you?

[WhyNotHugo]

@MrStonedOne Looks like you're confused, windows 10 is an upgrade of windows 7, not a downgrade. Check here to clear up any confusion. I'm not even a windows user, but the naming makes it quite obvious though.

[skyline75489]

@hobarrera Talking about sense of humor...

[MrStonedOne]

If it's better, its an upgrade; if it's worst, its a downgrade.

Windows 10 is worst in every way compared to windows 7.

UWP locks the user out of control over their apps. With win32 I can make the choice to install an application that modifies how another application operates or works, with UWP i can not.

So any OS that pushes UWP is a downgrade.

Windows 10 removes user control over updates and antivirus, two things I heavy scale back as the first thing I do in a new install

Windows 10 forces Desktop Window Manager to be running, a service I disable to remove a noticeable overhead in creating of gdi objects

Windows 10 forces ads on you, in the form of notifications, start menu suggestions, etc. some can be disabled, some seem to not be easily disableable.

Windows 10 keeps enabling features user disable like telemetry or cortona

Windows 10 doesn't even allow you to officially disable these features requiring registry hacks.

Windows 10 keeps sending details back to microsoft about how you use your computer even after you disable telemetry.

I could go on, but i'll stop there.

Windows 10 is a downgrade.

actually, one more: connected accounts. Everything to do with connected accounts is bullshit

[xiamx]

@MrStonedOne I don't think you are making a strong point here. As @sanoursa already explained, GVFS' implementation relies on a new feature in NTFS which does not exist in Windows 7. The GVFS team doesn't get to decide what feature of NTFS should be back ported to an aged operating system. Since the source code is made public, you are free to do what ever you like with it, including developing an alternate implementation that does not rely on new NTFS features.

[MrStonedOne]

As the core developer the gvfs team is the contact who should be pressuring or requesting microsoft backport this to windows 7.

And it's still an issue that a piece of software requires a OS downgrade to use.

This is the issue tracker.

The fact the issue can not be easily fixed doesn't negate the fact that its an issue.

[xiamx]

Why would the project maintainer care about an issue coming from someone with an ungrateful attitude anyways. I agree that supporting Windows 7 is a reasonable feature, but your contribution to this issue is neither constructive nor encouraging.

[MrStonedOne]

>allowing an issue to persist because you think the guy who reported wasn't nice enough in reporting it.

[sanoursa]

I appreciate your passion in making GVFS available on all platforms. It's one I share, but as in all things, we must prioritize where we spend our time. We're still focused on making GVFS fully functional on Windows 10, and my guess is that after that we'll look at Mac.

[robertmclaws]

@MrStonedOne I just spent the weekend downgrading a brand new PC from Windows 10 to Windows 7, and I can say with confidence that you're simply out of your mind if you think Windows 7 is better. Just on install basis alone, it took me 8 hours to get the machine re-imaged, and download + install the latest updates. 8 hours to get "current". It had no drivers OOB. After the 8 hours were over, it was a performance DOG at virtually ANYTHING I threw at it.

Client HATED it, so we re-imaged back up to Win 10 Anniversary. Was up and running in 20 minutes. All drivers were working OOB, and the system we lightning fast. There is simply no comparison.

Regardless, Windows 7 is no longer supported as an OS by Microsoft. So why on EARTH would they waste a DIME backporting something that they clearly said required new features in NTFS?

And by the way, they closed the issue because ---> your supporting arguments were moronic <---, not because they "didn't like you". You did not make one credible argument in this entire thread. From experience: you can be a total a$$hole and they will still listen to you if your arguments make sense.

Maybe next time, don't open issues while high. I'm just saying.

[MrStonedOne]

>using out of date installation media
>not enabling windows update during install so that it can download drivers (and the better quicker installer

No wonder you had issues.

Next time get the installer with sp1, preload the updates (filtering out the adware ones like gwx.exe or the one that put a windows 10 ad in IE.)

And you said client, implying you do this work professionally?

Get hirens, edit the usb image, and embed the installers for xp, 7, 8.1, 10, 2008, 2012 r2, 2016 into the usb image with updates (and routinely keep that up to date). Bam! No more 8 hour installs. (for bonus points, sprinkle in some extra lan and wlan drivers so that the installers have a better chance of being able to get drivers online)

Your argument boils down to:

The OS with almost 10 years of updates took longer to install updates then the os with 1 year worth of updates and it was slower for unknown reasons that I'm too inexperienced to figure out.

I'm getting the feeling you're embellishing the story somewhat, because you make it sound like you do this work professionally, but apparently don't have installation preloaded with updates as a general rule?

[robertmclaws]

Not embellishing the story, also not a desktop support professional. I'm a software engineer with desktop support experience that was helping out a friend with a one-off deal. I don't make it a habit of supporting out-of date OSes, therefore didn't have the inclination to make a slipstreamed ISO that I'll never use again. I downloaded the SP1 ISO from MSDN and used that for the install.

Critique my weekend experience with Windows 7 all you want. Has no bearing on the quality of your arguments for supporting GFVS on Windows 7. MY argument was clear: Windows 7 is no longer supported by Microsoft. So whine all you want, it's not going to happen unless you use your wit and charm to put an outside team together to do it. Good luck with that.

[MrStonedOne]

Windows 7 is supported until 2020

[MrStonedOne]

It's 2017

[MrStonedOne]

Either I'm high and bad at math or i'm missing something

[shmuelie]

Windows 7 is out of main stream support. In extended support Microsoft does NOT add new features. See https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17140/general-lifecycle-policy-questions. Extended support is really just for security fixes.

[robertmclaws]

What @SamuelEnglard said. There is a difference between "we're shipping stuff for this now" mainstream support and "we'll tolerate the lazy/stubborn/ignorant for as long as we absolutely have to because we're better than Apple."

If they WERE supporting it right now, I would have been able to download a Windows 7 SP2 ISO that would have had far more updates (Like IE 10/11/Whatever) built in.

[MrStonedOne]

> lazy/stubborn/ignorant

>calling me lazy/stubborn/ignorant because I don't want 10's bullshit.

UWP locks the user out of control over their apps. With win32 I can make the choice to install an application that modifies how another application operates or works, with UWP i can not, that choice is taken from my hands.

UWP alone wouldn't be a downgrade, but windows 10 /pushes/ it over win32, with the plan clearly being to limit and remove win32. It's already been stated that a later update may restrict running as admin to UWP apps installed from the windows store, meaning that with windows 10 I may wake up one day to find half my programs don't even fucking work because of a forced update I'm not suppose to be able to disable.

Because of the above: Windows update being forced is a downgrade, I can basically trust that my computer will break because of an update. (oh, you'll say, updates work fine for 99% of computers, but that just means I only have to wait for 100 updates before something breaks, only it only took ~10 before the first major work stoppage at work from an windows 10 update.)

UWP goes against the very foundation of Open Source Software by locking the user out of control over the app.

Windows 10 removes user control over updates and antivirus, two things I heavy scale back as the first thing I do in a new install. So now disk performance is slower because of antivirus scanning, and its slower half the time because of some update installing in the background (let alone what forcing a restart does to any overnight operations I leave running)

Windows 10 forces Desktop Window Manager to be running, a service I disable to remove a noticeable overhead in creating of gdi objects.

Windows 10 forces ads on you, in the form of notifications, start menu suggestions, etc. some can be disabled, some seem to not be easily disableable. This alone makes it a downgrade over 7 I could stop here, hell I could have just included this line, but that's not as fun.

Windows 10 keeps enabling features user disable like telemetry or cortona

Windows 10 doesn't even allow you to officially disable these features requiring registry hacks.

Windows 10 keeps sending details back to microsoft about how you use your computer even after you disable telemetry.

Connected accounts. Everything to do with connected accounts is bullshit, trying to push this system where we have to provide our personal details to microsoft just to use the computer is bullshit, the fact that they clearly plan to make it harder to do local accounts is even more bullshit, but the mear fact I have to go past 4 screens just to get around it every time I add a new local account when I don't with 7 makes windows 10 a downgrade over 7.

Windows 10 is objectively a downgrade from Windows 7. Windows 8 is as well. Windows 10 is only an upgrade when compared with windows 8, and barely one at that, but both still fall short of Windows 7.

[robertmclaws]

You said all of this already. No one cares. Bye. unsubscribed from thread

[MrStonedOne]

I think you are confusing hating something, and being disappointed it's not as good as it could have been.

I was excited for windows 8, until it came out....

I was excited for windows 8.1, until it came out....

I was excited for windows 10, until it came out....

Now I have a choice, stand by while the amount of new technologies I can use dwindles, use an OS that is built from the ground up to tell me I don't know what i'm doing so it will protect me, or switch to linux for my daily driver and deal with compatibility issues.

Or the better options, push back.

Fight against obsoleting windows 7, fight against software devs not supporting it, fight for windows being as good as it could be.

If I hated microsoft and windows, I would have switched to linux a long time ago.

I have a rule, If I think the world would be a better place if everybody did something, I'll do that something, even if I stand alone. Because apathy is the enemy of progress.

If everybody said they wouldn't accept the bullshit microsoft put in windows 10, microsoft would roll that back and windows 10 would have been better. I'd rather improve windows then let it fall to the wayside.

[xiamx]

All that emotion against Windows 10... With no actual action on porting it to Windows 7. If you so desire to use it on Windows 7, it is possible to emulate FS features on the userland. This is github we are talking about, let's keep the comments central to the issue (which I think you won't do anyways)

Bye. I need to unsubscribe this thread too.

[bizzehdee]

@MrStonedOne , i would like to point out that you have no business being the maintainer of https://github.com/MrStonedOne/opencodeofconduct/blob/gh-pages/index.md if this is how you act

[MrStonedOne]

except thats a fork i created purely to make this commit: MrStonedOne/opencodeofconduct@c07d3dd and pr it back to the main todogroup/opencodeofconduct#56

(as well as the 20 other prs i opened when that one was closed)

[GeeLaw]

I assume Microsoft is not bound to resolve your issue. This repo is licensed under MIT, and you could accomplish whatever you want yourself. From what the contributor in the thread has said, I suppose you should try doing it yourself if you really want it on Windows 7.