Make fundraising for this project.

[zerocool1992]

The Gothic game is very popular in the world. And your project very important to Gothic 1 and 2 games.
but not many people know about this project.
I think we must tell about this project on Gothic forums.
Also information how people donate to support project can be added to readme.md

[mdrost]

I suggest bountysource https://www.bountysource.com/teams/regoth/issues

[Marek33]

Interesting site, but I would suggest Patreon, since its way more popular, and probably more people would be willing to donate, since a lot of people knew that site. I and probably a lot of other people have never seen that site, which you have mentioned.

[Jurigag]

I would suggest opencollective more cuz this is mostly used for programming projects. It's more transparent for what goes money, who gives it etc. Patreon isn't really transparent at all, you don't really know for what you money goes and in programming projects transparency is imho the must, bakers must know for what their money goes.

@Marek33 bountysource is actually very common in programming world

[zerocool1992]

Add payment details to the readme.md file

[Marek33]

@Jurigag Maybe in the programming world, but not much outside, where most of the original Gothic fans are, who mostly have no idea, that there is such a huge project in the making. I'm saying this, since I see it all the time on the YouTube.

@zerocool1992 That would be probably the best thing, and also having multiple options: Patreon, Bountysource and PayPal.

[frabert]

Disclaimer: not the author, I do not speak on behalf of any other person other than me.

With that being said, I see some problems with this kind of support: what is needed in the development of this project is not money, IMO, but time, and that cannot be bought. The only way someone could afford to spend more time on this project is if it were to abandon his/her dayjob/studies and go fulltime on this, which would need a very substancial Patreon/whatever backing, which I do not think is going to be reached.

Also, who should receive the money, and how should it be spent? There are not many things money could be spent on right now, apart from maybe VR gear that was mentioned in #355, but I don't see it as a top priority

[Gryxx]

@frabert Keep in mind that you can hire someone to work on particular feature.

[mdrost]

Bounties for specific issue encourages new developers to look at the project.

[frabert]

@Gryxx Unless the feature in case is a particularly trivial one (at which point it's easier to just add it ourselves), adding features/fixing bugs requires a significant dwelve into both the current codebase and the original engine, which is not well documented at all and mostly unknown outside of the Gothic fanbase. All of this translates to long times needed to make progress. "Guns for hire" are not cheap, especially if you need them to work on long to implement features. I just don't see this a particularly well-suited model for this kind of open-source project. As I said before, though, I am not the one to take such a decision, and we'll have to listen to the opinion of @ataulien (and of all the others if they want to chime in, of course)

[Gryxx]

@frabert Good point. But still, I think that this money could be well used (maybe not ASAP). I understand that it is not your decision to make, I just want to share some ideas (like that gret one from @mdrost ).

[mdrost]

I would like to share with you how well is other open source reimplementation project doing on bountysource https://www.bountysource.com/teams/openra/issues

[Jurigag]

@Marek33 but this is mostly programming project and also in outside world opencollective is very known among many organizations, companies etc

Modders for sure knows it. Still patreon is bad idea as i wrote - no transparency at all, same with paypal, bountysource is better but it's kind of other thing. Best will be to use opencollective, it's just best and most common choice for projects like this.

@frabert this is why we should use opencollective or bountysource which is transparent instead of things like paypal or patreon, like you need to provide information for what money goes.

[Marek33]

@frabert I fully agree with you on the time since that's the most important thing. However, I think that people in the community can wait for a mod/project to be completely finished since there are multiple mods, which are over 8 years in development.

Everyone who contributed to the Project in medium way at least, but especially the Andre, who is one of the main developers.

@Jurigag You are right, but what if someone huge like Gopher (I doubt it since he doesn't really know Gothic unfortunately), would make a video about the REGoth and DirectX 11 mod for Gothic 1 & 2. Let's say, it would somehow get over one million of views and then it would be great to have a Patreon. I know that's very unlikely, but not impossible.

[Jurigag]

@Marek33 as i wrote, patreon is bad because it's not transparent, i wouldn't for example support project using patreon because i don't know for what money goes. People can use opencollective as well, doesn't see any problem with it and it's good site too.

[Marek33]

@Jurigag On the Patreon, you can clearly see, on which the money will be used (if it's written there). However, I'm not sure when I could find it on that site. I think it would be best to have both options, since some people prefer Patreon and some Opencollective or Bountysource.

[Jurigag]

It's not written, for what exactly what amount of money goes. Only what people will write what on what they will spend, but they spend it in reality on anything else. On opencollective which each spend you need to type for what it's going so it's much more transparent.

Check for example this - https://opencollective.com/webpack/transactions# simple list for what money goes, there is no such thing on patreon, i can't find anywhere a list like this for what money goes, it just goes, and creator do everything they want with them, for example go for vacation because of money they got from supporters.

Also as you can see by this example of webpack, opencollective is very known website where big companies contributes as well such as trivago, airbnb etc you not knowing it doesn't change it's the best solution and imho ONLY one(except bountysource, but it's kind of different thing really) in projects like this.

You need to remember this is in mostly programming project, like reverse engineering, not let's make a new game/new mod. Game is already done and it's Gothic. There won't be any new content added per se to original game, maybe only new features or mechanics which will be built-in that you could enable or use in mods.

[Marek33]

@Jurigag You are right about that, but I think that Andre knows what he is doing.

Indeed, its very interesting and the Patreon should have something like this too.

Yes, it is, but I dont think, its as popular as the Patreon, so thats why i suggested it.

I know, since ReGoth is opensourse, of the zEngine.

[zerocool1992]

The project must give a very simple donation way to fans. Because if the donation will require eg. user registrations or some in same kind then many people won't donate.

[Marek33]

@zerocool1992 That's why I'm suggesting Patreon, since a lot of people in the YouTube are using it. So, there is a high chance that at least some ReGoth fans, have it. However, I don't know any site, where can I give money without registering. Maybe PayPal?

[zerocool1992]

Even simple payment requisites for anonymous donations in Readme.md can be useful for project.
Also it is important to add bitcoin, paypal, and similar payment addresses.
also there a lot of gothic fans in Russia, Germany, Poland etc. and local national online payment systems also need to be added like webmoney, yandexmoney, qiwi etc. to make donations very simple to fans.
eg. a can give to this project for example 20$ and i will not do this with Patreon or similar platform. because i do not have an account. and it is difficult for me to create account.

[Jurigag]

But this is not youtube project. It's mainly if not only programming project and that's why we should use opencollective because it's more transparent. But whatever, i won't just support it if it will be on patreon because i won't know for what my money goes.

Opencollective is AS POPULAR as Patreon in programming world, well projects even tend to use it than patreon.

[Marek33]

@zerocool1992 I fully agree with you. The more options, the better. However, there shouldn't be way too much, since it could be confusing to the creators and donators alike.

@Jurigag I have to wonder if you are even reading what I'm writing. Why you don't want to give the choice to the people?

Probably yes, but in my six years in molding community I haven't heard it, until now.

[frabert]

Discussion is appreciated, but it should be kept calm and non-personal please :) No need to get all fussed up

[Marek33]

@frabert Don't worry, I have no intention to make any problems, but since there are multiple options, it would be better, if the people could choose, instead of having one or two options only.

[Jurigag]

I think it's better to have only one option because we will know how much exactly team have money and what they are doing with it, when splitting it we don't know and there is no transparency.

Also it will be easier for team to organize, count etc this money, just one account in one place instead of x in few places, and in places there is no option for transparency they would need release info themselves, too much effort when they can have such things built-in and focus on actual coding.

@Marek33 i'm just guessing that you just want to spend some money and don't care what will happen with it, for example me not, i would expect exactly for what, why and why such amount my money goes. As i already wrote, this is the worst thing in patreon, where people can write anything what they will do, and they just get money and you don't acutally know anything what happens with it next. Patreon can be good place for non-technical stuff, or for casual stuff, like making a new game overall etc, this project is whole different thing, people here doesn't create here any game, patreon is not a place for it in my opinion.

I would even say that programmers more likely know opencollective more than patreon etc sites and might donate money because it's used more by them, it's plain and simple, patreon not so much.

Also patreon is more like a page where you contribute and get something in back, i don't really see any way to give contributors anything back in project like this. On opencollective it's more like about community supporting certain project and doesn't have anything for it and sponsors spending like a bigger amount(few hunder-few thousand $) and having their link website on github and/or project site.

I'm not saying that patreon is bad or fundraising overall, or something, i just think patreon is the worst possible solution for this IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, and even more having xxx ways of fundraising.

Maybe later it could be good idea if team would be closer to release actual any 1.0/beta/stable version, but at the current level of project opencollective is best.

Transparency and being like 90% about coding is what is best in opencollective. Many companies which are using products which are on opencollective are donating them with a big amount of money because of transparency and they know for what their money go, i'm sure if projects would use patreon for example they wouldn't get the same support. Also with opencollective even game creators or game companies would be more likely to support than on patreon, because of things i wrote above.

You are just writing use patreon because it's known, but you don't really see a bad things in it and you don't see that at the current level of project it's not really a place for it.

[Marek33]

@Jurigag That's true, but what about the other people who wouldn't want to use that service it? I don't think that everyone is a programmer, who is subscribed to the Regoth project at the YouTube.

I was in Modding community for six years, so I'm not someone knew. Maybe I even knew much more mods than you, since I've been on multiple Modding sites, where are different modifications on almost every site. Modding communities like the ones at the GUN, NexusMods, Moddb, Crymods, AP-pro. Ru, Worldofplayers.de & Worldofplayers. Ru has all quite viewpoints and different systems of sharing mods. However, they are all of them are great sites and all of them have different mods to offer. Some of them have similar content like WOP.de and WOP.ru, or NexusMods and Moddb, but only for some games.

I don't have enough money for me (currently I don't even have a GPU and also I need to save some money), so I can't spend anything. I only suggested it, since it's very popular amongst all sorts of people. That's all.

Programmers yes, however there is nowhere so many humans with that profession as the rest of the people.

There were a lot of releases and even the developers itself, have no idea when the beta will be ready.

Maybe you are right, maybe not. However, since I never before heard about that site, until you mentioned it, I can't really say if you are right or not.

Everything has some negatives, even the Opencollective. However, don't know them, since I don't work with them.

BTW: If you want to talk about it, message me at Moddb/Discord. I'm on multiple Discord servers like Frontier, Fallout 4 FNV, FO4Miami, Ray of Hope and others so you can easily find me. This site, is great for suggesting ideas, but not for discussion.