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Is Semantic UI development dead ? #6109

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GuacheSuede opened this issue Jan 20, 2018 · 120 comments

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@GuacheSuede
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commented Jan 20, 2018

@jlukic 's last commit was 5/6 months ago and even then did not have many improvements nor much changes.

What would be the status of Semantic UI especially with Bootstrap having much more development than this ? Is it in active development or are any features planed for the near future ?

Note: This open source project goes dead without @jlukic or @quirkyjack , zero developement, zero updates, and for nearly a year at that. Even pull requests are not moving. Could there perhaps be a solution to this ?

Please do not say plans for something, for that might be for another half a year of waiting with no promises or answers

There will be a meeting at 6PM EST tomorrow on Hangouts !

I hope to volunteer to maintain/run this project if @jlukic does not have the time for it

@arjarn

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commented Jan 20, 2018

Many many people are same interrogation : Semantic UI is great framework (with default but lot of good points). I'm really sad to see development stopped. For development (newer), using a framework without news about futur is not attractive.

@etshy

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commented Jan 22, 2018

Same here I'd love to see semantic continue its development.
Maybe the semantic team works on something huge, like a V3 ?

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 22, 2018

@etshy not in the Semantic-Org Repo, and @jlukic activity has been low too.

@jeveloper

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commented Jan 25, 2018

Nothing since august last year

I've decided to move to material ui, this isnt worth investing time

I would however be happy to pay an annual fee for a premium plan that will guarantee bug fixes and improvements.

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 26, 2018

@jeveloper I agree. perhaps a fork could be created

@arjarn

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commented Jan 26, 2018

Agree too. I'm developper and do little stuff for fun. This month, I begin new project (not for work) and have to choose between SUI and Metro-UI CSS V4 (I'm already using V3). Finally I choose Metro-UI : lot of high level components and very active developper.

Too bad : I like SUI, it's very good framework but no dev and with time, chatroom become empty... so no support.

For fork, possible if people are ready to participate...

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 26, 2018

@arjarn Do you happen to know what is needed for Semantic UI to be better ?

@arjarn

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commented Jan 26, 2018

In my opinion, SUI is almost perfect ^^
But :

  • be more easily customisable (skin) : actually it's difficult to modify color or add background on component (or I'm bad... possible because newer with SUI ;-) )
  • several components missing (need 3rd party now) : date / time picker or have image slideshow.

But it's my feeling after my poor SUI experience, why don't making "BOX IDEA" here or elsewhere ?

PS : sorry for my poor english.

@hammy2899

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commented Jan 26, 2018

I have been considering making a fork for a while now and I would love to help get peoples features added and patch the current bugs.

I have some knowledge for the semantic code base but I will have to learn some more before I make a fork.

I will 100% make a fork if people are willing to contribute. 😃

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 26, 2018

@hammy2899 Count me in, I think it's doable.

@hammy2899

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commented Jan 26, 2018

@witrin thanks for bringing this up!

@Bodom78

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commented Jan 27, 2018

@witrin Good to know.

Hopefully @jlukic finds a way to finance future development as this framework has some great concepts.

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 27, 2018

@witrin I agree with his sentiments, but what seems to be an issue is that this open source project goes dead without @jlukic, zero developement, zero updates, and for nearly a year at that. Even pull requests are not moving. Could there perhaps be a solution to this ?

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 27, 2018

@Bodom78 Could you share what great concepts Semantic UI has from your POV ? For me it is mostly Modular Theme-ing

@philrykoff

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commented Jan 27, 2018

As there seem to be people willing to support SUI, maybe @jlukic considers adding them to the team.

@Bodom78

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commented Jan 27, 2018

@GuacheSuede The human friendly markup is something I love, I find much easier to work with compared to Bootstrap or Foundation.

Another thing I really like is the amount of variations on offer for elements, look at the lists or buttons pages in the docs. So many variations already there and with the theming, overrides and variables it's easy to add your own building up on what is already there.

I've found I can take a website from design to html much faster and with less nonsensical markup then the other frameworks I have used.

As a start I would love to see more contributors working on clearing out the issues and pull requests.

@arjarn

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commented Jan 27, 2018

@witrin : thx for information

+1 @Bodom78 : like SUI for same things, can add bricks to make great site with original design, but I haven't find easy way for theming so for this, I'm agree @GuacheSuede

And, obviously, priority to resolve issues.

In last, more high level components : I think, dev / people like have all-in-one framework. Tiresome have 4-5 third party library for image slide, date time picker or other...
I know, 100% needing is not possible but several components missing in SUI in my mind.

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 28, 2018

That is good to hear ! @Bodom78 @arjarn

@Bodom78 I agree, SUI's feature of markup seems much easier than Boostrap or Foundation. I agree that the variations of the the framework seems wonderful !

@arjarn Thanks for agreeing :). I agree SUI is lacking a few features that would be much desired. Could you list out the components you would hope to see in Semantic UI ?

Issues are a large priority.

I am thinking it would be better for Semantic UI if it was switched to SASS/SCSS due to more features

@GuacheSuede

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commented Jan 28, 2018

I have so far not been able to get @jlukic reponse when I private messaged him a few days ago

@levithomason

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commented Feb 22, 2018

I agree 99.9% on all points. I've written about this for a couple years now, as in Semantic-Org/Semantic-UI-React#1009. It would also enable sharing the same styles between the web (jQuery, React, etc), native mobile apps (React Native), and desktop (electron) apps. I've spoken all too much about the benefits in many issues over the years. I also have prototype of this on my machine now. Another contributor.

Jack and I have different opinions on this and he has good counterpoints as well. I still believe CSS in JS is not only the best solution but the future direction of the web.

The 0.1% difference I have with your comment would be the implementation library. I wouldn't use styled components, probably fela or some other.

As I've eluded to recently in a few issues, I may have a fulltime opportunity to make this happen in 2018. Really hoping it pans out.


For the uninitiated, you can see how CSS in JS has taken off by reviewing repos such as:

https://github.com/MicheleBertoli/css-in-js
https://github.com/tuchk4/awesome-css-in-js

Companies like Khan Academy have shipped open source libraries and have run CSS in JS in production for a while now. It solves, so, so many of the issues related to CSS.

@sindzicat

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commented Feb 22, 2018

Hello all!

What about crowdsourcing? SUI owners could create Trello board or something like this. They create small tasks for SUI community, and folks try to do these tasks. My idea is that owners have some free time, but their time isn't enough to write code. But their time may be enough to organize development.

I'm a mechanical engineer. There is a technical director on my firm, and he know what machine should be developed. He give me small tasks, so that I know what exactly and how I should to do. I don't know all moments about my machine. Every time I do only not big tasks, not more.

In my opinion tasks must be small. And person, who want and can help SUI, can do such task in one or a few days. As for SUI owners it should be easy for them to check the result of tasks made. This check should not spent much their time, and it should be easier for them to find free time.

@mvrhov

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commented Feb 22, 2018

Having css and js and html intermingled means that I'm forced to render with javascript. this means that either I have to render client side which means that there will be delay. If I want to render this serverside then I'm forced to also install nodejs along with the technology I use for my backend. So That a big 👎 👎
Also this means that I have problems to fill data with my backend technology stack. As the data must cross language boundaries.

@w96k

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@mvrhov I don't see much problem here, I saw how in go/php people have been using embed js-engine and rendering all the stuff they needed just fine. If you are using semantic ui you anyway need to install node.js for theming, because gulp & less are js written libs. I got your point and I think cross language boundaries is a big problem not only in react ecosystem, but in computer science in general.

@khornberg

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@jlukic Thank you for your response and time to answer.

At this point I think this issue is resolved. Semantic UI is not dead. There is a community that wants to keep it going.

I think it would be helpful to create an RFC repo to discuss future direction of the project and the planning of the implementations of the decisions we make.

@mikelax

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commented Feb 22, 2018

Having just starting to explore and use semantic UI and semantic react I have to say these packages are a real joy to use. I was going to offer a few thoughts that might help prevent forking of the project, but there seems to be a flurry of activity over the past two days.

@jlukic I think your post outlining the roadmap and proposed changes goes a long way to addressing some of the community concerns !! 🥇

I know the community is there to support the project, that is evidenced by the number of issues and PRs. The issue (in my small opinion) is that this project is too big for any single person to fully manage. This would be try for anyone full-time, let alone on a part-time basis,. Getting time from the community to help with things like issue triage, PR review, will go a long way.

Here are my couple of thoughts (most of which you already outlined). Take them for what they are, but it already appears things are moving in the right direction 📈 💯

  • Create issue template to doubly signal to users that usage and "how-to" questions should be directed to Stack Overflow.
  • Triage existing issue list and close invalid issues, mention to open question on SO if still needed
  • Get a group of power users that can lend time offering to do PR reviews, and comments.
    • Quick win - do a small point release and try to include a bunch of smaller PRs, bug fixes, to test the waters and begin to clear out the PR backlog.
  • Create a Roadmap.md file or add section in main README to list upcoming features
@brodybits

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commented Feb 22, 2018

-1 for Stack Overflow, I do not think it provides consistent support. I think a help forum is badly needed for this project.

@khornberg

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@mikelax

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@brodybits @khornberg whether the "help and support" is done through SO or custom forum software I don't really mind either way. I only mention to not have those questions clutter the Github Issues. It's the same goal.

The issue with running custom forum software is that you have to then recreate the dev community that already exists on SO. ie. there are more questions tagged semantic-ui on SO than in the forums. The other big benefit of SO is their SEO is killer, if the questions get answered then people with the same question will find those existing questions, that's hard to beat.

@hammy2899

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commented Feb 22, 2018

I want to add to that by saying most people don't even know about the current forums (which was just demonstrated) and most devs go straight to SO for any programming related issues anyway.

@kielcoding

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@w96k it’s not the main issue here, but I just want to give my opinion to the css in js thing. First your argument that you already usually have js for developing semantic is invalid because development environment != production environment in general.
Second it might sound good at first look to solve css issues by the help of js but in my opinion you increase the complexity and add additional potential problems. So instead of struggle with css you do it with js. There are a lot of people who prefer the first I guess :) if you want to extract the css part from SUI I think the best way would be a less/sass only repository. But that what only be a benefit for external projects such as SUIR not SUI in general.

@hammy2899

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@kielcoding

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@hammy2899 Yes, I know, but they are only extraction, not dependencies or any other kind of reusable code/abstraction.

@brodybits

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commented Feb 22, 2018

@jlukic my understanding from your talk is that you had some issues with Semantic UI together with web components. Is this correct and can you explain further?

@jlukic

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commented Mar 1, 2018

@brodybits Pretty good overview in this article.

@brodybits

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commented Mar 1, 2018

@brodybits Pretty good overview in this article.

... now with a link to an excellent response, more details in #4963 (comment).

I start to wonder if it would make more sense to get the JavaScript part out of this project?

@slaklad

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commented Mar 2, 2018

Are you @levithomason and @jlukic still on a regular job? I thought the project was paid off with ads and donations.

@levithomason

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commented Mar 2, 2018

Unfortunately, ads and donations cannot support even one junior developer's salary. I'm a full-time employee, husband, dad, and landlord doing my best to support SUI in my "free" time 😅

@prudho

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commented Mar 8, 2018

I'm sorry to pull up this subject again, but is there someone to maintain this repository alive ? I mean, pull requests aren't reviewed, issues are stacking without any response or even closed (just take a look at duplicates and no semantic related issues)...

There is some contributors who are trying to help, but without any reaction from maintainers this is very frustrating. Some bugs are critical and should be fixed in a hotfix without waiting the next big milestone.

@w96k

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commented Mar 8, 2018

Yeah, would be nice if someone will have a control over the repo, maybe @hammy2899 can review and merge stuff?

@hammy2899

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commented Mar 8, 2018

I would be happy to help out by merging some PR's but it's down to @jlukic and I want to respect his work. I don't want to feel pushy and as if I am taking over his project.

@jlukic jlukic closed this Mar 19, 2018

@jlukic

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commented Mar 19, 2018

I think we're covered this topic adequately so I'm closing discusion. I recommend those who discover this thread to watch the video and check my comments above, specifically related to the development history of the project.

SUI is used in production for many large apps, and will continue to receive patch/release updates about every month or so at a pace that is reasonable.

@slaklad The donations/ads is about one tenth of a starting devs salary. So its not something that can warrant full time development without eating into savings dramatically.

@morganbarrett

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commented Apr 30, 2018

I'm starting active development on this non jQuery fork: https://github.com/morganbarrett/Vanilla-Semantic-UI

@Semantic-Org Semantic-Org locked as resolved and limited conversation to collaborators Jun 8, 2018

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