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autohost settings produce unattractive matches #921
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I think what you really want is matchmaking. |
No. |
Forum posts and polls have shown that players do not like player-limits. They also prefer playing a 10v10 on icy run over a 20x20 map that reduces FPS to a single digit. Joke maps can definitely be supported. They often don't break any game mechanics, don't crash the game and don't cause any other technical problems. There's a specific "Silly" tag for joke maps, so neither "featured" nor "supported" need to be reserved for non-joke maps only.
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I don't think this is how rooms titled "All welcome!" are supposed to work. I am pretty sure I understand what you want: You want some sort of "competitive"/"serious" room, but just because a room has a star showing it's "official", doesn't mean it's supposed to be either of those. Official means "this room is not hosted by a private individual, it is public, vote-based and fully subject to moderation (ie. CoC applies)". While there could indeed be a room titled "Competitive (team) games" or similar I think going straight towards matchmaking would remove issues like !vote spam, spec cheating and similar that all come with the current room-system and would affect competitive/serious rooms more negatively than others. |
I do not think that this is very "competetive" or "serious" or "hardcore" or whatever it gets called sometimes. To me not wanting to play on a singing face, without bots & without stupid eco settings does not make a game "competetive" or "serious." (That would be ladder or tourney games)
This change to autohosts is a realistic bugreport/request, but matchmaking is pipedream of of deus-ex-machina solution. |
We could simply tag all existing maps as allowed and remove those that arent, and review future maps.. |
FFA on small TEAMS host: shitmap on small teams: (is this supposed to be "serious" or not?) |
MM fixes it |
Well there are no autohsots now so you cannot really complain , there is nothing we can do about people hosting games they like the way they like. |
You can do something about it: Offer a sensible infrastructure. At the moment not really a choice for most players: either play a shitmatch or do not play at all. |
What do you mean, all maps are offered and non speed metalic are featured by default. |
Reality is that too many shit maps/options/crowded maps get played. Theory does not matter.
Game gets the players it deserves. |
The only solution to shitmaps is to ban shitmaps. I think that would be the ideal solution but it would mean 90% of the playerbase leaves (because they love shitmaps: see how much they play them). Perhaps instead of permanently leaving, they go and host ZK on main Spring server but they will still play mostly shitmaps there. If almost everybody leaves then game won't attract anyone at all. Personally I think the 90% is just stockholm syndrome and people would play (and like) proper games if they had no other choice. But the only way to check that would be to implement the clusterfuck ban which is a huge risk the other devs won't take. Do you have a less risky way to force people to stop playing clusterfuck other than banning it? |
No. They have to come to realize it themself what kind of game and playerbase they want. |
Also just look at the drama caused by MM and removal of ranking for cluster games. |
like server and playerbase split?
social engineering was never nessecary when there was players who wanted non-shitty matches. |
Using actual statistics instead of a snapshot from a <5 hour period with n=10: 42133 player minutes spent in no-bots games lasting at least 5 minutes in past 14 days
I am not convinced that 6.20% of total player minutes being spent on special maps constitutes some kind of silly map dystopia. |
It is meaningless to compare playerminutes like that: It does not reflect what players encounter in lobby. IcyRun is a normal map. But 8v8 IcyRun is still a silly shitgame. Whether the one lobsterPotRoom-shitmap-room contains 4 or 6 players or 12 players massively changes the playerminutes. But is that relevant for anyone? I think more relevant is that during that time no other matches were played. The time-to-wait-until-game strongly depends on one factor: In zeroK the teamsizes never depends on mapchoice or what teamsize players prefer.
3009 playerminutes per day. Do you realize how little that actually is? |
By that standard I consider it 10^3 times more meaningful than your anecdatum of a screenshot.
I point you to the part where 5v5 or smaller games are still 57% of featured map playerminutes (and a higher match count than that, since they have fewer players to count). Now, sure, Icy Run 5v5 isn't a lot better than 8v8. On the other hand, you haven't shown any evidence that Icy Runs of any size are a significant contributor to the playerminutes at all. (On last run: Icy Run v2 games of any size made up 652 playerminutes out of 42954 total) In any case, here are freshly fetched stats for raw battle minutes (not multiplied by player count):
Assuming only one game is visible at a time, that means SpeedMetal, Trololo et al. are what's for dinner 6.0% of the time. "Serious" non-clusterfuck games are up for 12.2 times as long as silly maps. If we exclude games with <= 4 players (aiming to filter out those private games between groups of friends):
Silly maps are 7.28% of total battle time, serious non-clusterfuck games have 6.75 times the battle time.
This statement is missing at least one item in the logic chain (and more to the point, an explanation of how it disproves the disproof of a supposed preponderance of silly maps). |
Do you not understand that "Icy Run" is just symbolic stand-in for any normal map that gets played in overcrowded teamsizes? TitanDuel, FalsomDamCore, etc..
The point is you can not use playerminutes as an arguement when the activity is too low to be measured that way. At some point it stops being meaningfull. A meaningful methode of measurement would be number of parallel active rooms. "Silly maps" are only one subcategory of shitgames.
This assumption is correct, and the problem. |
By "active" do you mean open or just existing (where game might be already started)? MM only creates a room when a game is ready and kicks everyone out after game is over. So there's never an visible MM room on the list but there is always the MM queue which you can join and works the same as a "room" except it guarantees non-shitty settings (always a non-shitty, mapfeatured map with low playercount and no shitty modoptions). Do you think the guarantee of non-shitty settings that MM gives is not enough to rally existing non-shitty players? |
Resulting matches getting played. As listed in player profiles and replays list.
There was also the "guarantees" of a "serious room" and "small teams room" etc all which disappointed. |
Why are you arguing with knorke... |
because he plays even less than me and maybe has nothing better to do while idling in empty lobby |
knorke confirmed smurfing ZK. knorke confirmed ZK's biggest fanboi. |
Oh, also unsuitable maps for MM: And why? Because some mapfeaturer featured the map without having played a single match on it. |
This is about the official, public autohosts.
map selection
There exists system of "featured" maps and definitions if a map is suitable for 1v1, teams or FFA. Why is it not used?
-Tiny maps should not be used in large-teams room because result is choatic Commander-deathmatch.
-Joke-maps like: Trololo, Duke-Nukem or maps that by usual criteria would never get the "featured" (or even "supported") tag like superlong variants of IcyRun. Those should not be in any room.
Team sizes are too large.
"Funny" settings.
For example superhigh income-multiplicator so that within few seconds the income is +50metal.
It breaks every aspect of balance. This has no place in official room.
Broken maps or 'testing' maps.
Official rooms are a bad place to test maps.
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