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RFC: Drop serif-only variants in a future release #1726
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Hello! Do I correctly understand that after the proposed change, e.g., the capital latin A and capital latin K would only have 2 variants each (curly and straight)? If so, my only wish is to make the new variants (for all letters) more consistent in look. Example 1. By default currently italic cyrillic lowercase ka is currently top-left-serifed, whyle italic latin lowercase k is cursive. I personally don't like the cursive variant and would prefer a non-cursive one. AFAIU there would be only one variant WRT serifs. Would it be top-left-serifed or top-left-and-bottom-right-serifed? Imho they should be the same. Example 2. Currently italic cyrillic lowercase en is top-left-and-borrom-right-serifed. So the k's from example 1 should actually be top-left-and-bottom-right-serifed as well. Example 3. Currently italic latin lowercase a/d/u have a bottom-right tail while italic latin lowercase n/m have a bottom-right serif. I might be pretty wrong here, but for me it looks like an inconsistency and in my builds italic-slab variants of a/u/d have bottom-right serifs instead of tails. Example 4. By default sans italic variants have a/d/u with bottom-right tails and tailless+serifless n/m . For me it also looks like an inconsistency, so my builds have tailed n/m. And here arises an issue with characters that don't have variants at all. Times ago cyrillic lowercase en/el/yery didn't have variants so the only way for me to get a consistent look was to make all italic lowercase characters tailless+serifless. But that would make italic variant to be just a copy of an oblique one which I didn't like. Actually, I got what I wanted with issue #972 . But what about people using other languages? I don't know. As a result, I created a style that (aside of making slab/sans oblique/italic variants different) looks as consistent as possible even taking into account characters that don't have variants. My empirical rules are:
Let's return back to our story now.
So, my only wish is to not lose the ability to get the consistent font with clear difference between italic/oblique. After all, I have to say that's just my own opinion that could be wrong. I'm not a font expert, demonstrated by issues like #1258 . By the way, when are you going to implement this (if you will). Is it near future or far future? Couple of weeks, couple of months, a year or so? |
To @pv4 : This change may happen in version 24 or 25. |
I don't well understand the proposal, but in case this is a useful data point (well, anecdote), I usually build with the following: $ rg serifless vars.yml charvars capital-a: curly-serifless
capital-c: serifless
capital-e: serifless
capital-g: toothless-corner-serifless-hooked
capital-h: serifless
capital-j: serifless
capital-l: serifless
capital-n: standard-serifless
capital-r: straight-open-serifless
capital-s: serifless
capital-t: serifless
capital-u: toothless-rounded-serifless
capital-v: curly-serifless
capital-w: straight-asymmetric-serifless
capital-x: curly-serifless
capital-y: curly-serifless
capital-z: straight-serifless-with-crossbar
b: toothless-corner-serifless
c: serifless
d: tailed-serifless
h: straight-serifless
j: serifless
k: curly-serifless
m: short-leg-serifless
n: earless-corner-tailed-serifless
q: earless-corner-diagonal-tailed-serifless
r: corner-hooked-serifless
s: serifless
u: toothless-rounded-serifless
v: curly-serifless
w: cursive-serifless
x: curly-serifless
y: curly-serifless
z: straight-serifless-with-crossbar
capital-gamma: serifless
cyrl-capital-ka: curly-serifless
cyrl-ka: curly-serifless
cyrl-capital-u: curly-turn-serifless
cyrl-capital-ya: straight-serifless
cyrl-ya: straight-tailed-serifless
seven: curly-serifless $ rg serifed vars.yml charvars capital-b: standard-interrupted-bilateral-serifed
capital-d: more-rounded-unilateral-serifed
capital-f: top-left-serifed
capital-i: short-serifed
capital-k: curly-top-left-serifed
capital-m: hanging-motion-serifed
capital-p: closed-motion-serifed
p: eared-motion-serifed
lower-iota: tailed-serifed
cyrl-capital-ze: unilateral-serifed
cyrl-ze: unilateral-serifed
cyrl-en: tailed-top-left-serifed |
@AndydeCleyre It means in a future releae (25?) all the variant names that has |
Thanks!
Will it still be possible to have some characters with serifs and some without, in a single build? Or will those mentioned variables be globally applied? |
@AndydeCleyre I am still thinking the way to do it -- perhaps it will be driven by another object in the build plan ( |
The ability to create a mixed-serif build seems pretty important. The customizability is the big selling point of Iosekva. Reducing that is going backwards, no? Plus, I have seen fonts that used a mixed-serif approach for style and legibility. As an aside, what even are "motion serifs"? It's not a term I've seen elsewhere. |
@Lieutenant-L-T-Smash The term "motion serifed" denotes haveing partial serifs at certain corners (like only at top-left). |
Something I thought I'd mention: |
I am going to close this for now, as after we refactored the variation generator maintaining the variant list is no longer a very big problem. The only real problem now is the glyph count, but there are still some room for more glyphs, and the quantity of variants won't grow too fast in the near future. |
This plan may change after discussion.
Currently, Iosevka have a lot of character variants that only differs around serifs. And in parallel, it have the "Sans/Slab" switch. This makes a lot of confusion and inconsitencies, and since most of the serif variants are introduced when making the "motion serif" glyphs for SS17, I am planning...
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). For these variants serifs make significant shape changes.C
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.Some alternatives:
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