Chromiecraft Wow ROFLK issues wine/box64

[coreybruce]

Confirmations

• I searched for similar bug reports in https://github.com/Botspot/pi-apps/issues and found none were relevant.
• I tried updating Pi-Apps and the issue is still not fixed. How to update Pi-Apps?
• IMPORTANT: I promise to respond to comments on this issue and write a good bug report https://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/how-to-write-good-bug-report/

What happened?

Game doesn't run properly

Description

Game and UI doesn't load up properly also gives warnings/errors thinking it has Nvidia hardware when running it in wine/box64

What are your system specs (run the following command in your terminal)?

OS: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
OS architecture: 64-bit
Last updated Pi-Apps on: 10/23/2023
Latest Pi-Apps version: 10/24/2023
Kernel: aarch64 6.1.0-rpi4-rpi-v8
Device model: Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.4 
Cpu name: Cortex-A72
Ram size: 7.81 GB
Raspberry Pi OS image version: 2023-10-10
Language: en_US.UTF-8

(Recommended) Error log? Terminal output? Debug messages?

wine wow.exe
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
BOX64: Wine64 detected, WINEPRELOADRESERVE=""
Counted 51 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /usr/local/bin/wine
argv[1]="wow.exe"
Rename process to "wine"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/bin/../lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ntdll.so
Using native(wrapped) libunwind.so.8
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
BOX64: Wine preloader detected, loading "/opt/wine-8.17/bin/wine" directly
BOX64: Wine64 detected, WINEPRELOADRESERVE=""
Counted 53 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /opt/wine-8.17/bin/wine
argv[1]="wow.exe"
Rename process to "wine"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/bin/../lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ntdll.so
Using native(wrapped) libunwind.so.8
0164:err:environ:init_peb starting L"F:\\home\\corey\\ChromieCraft\\wow.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/win32u.so
Using native(wrapped) libm.so.6
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
BOX64: Wine preloader detected, loading "/opt/wine-8.17/bin/wine" directly
BOX64: Wine64 detected, WINEPRELOADRESERVE="000400000-000494000"
Counted 55 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /opt/wine-8.17/bin/wine
argv[1]="C:\windows\system32\conhost.exe"
argv[2]="--unix"
argv[3]="--width"
argv[4]="80"
argv[5]="--height"
argv[6]="24"
argv[7]="--server"
argv[8]="0x10"
Rename process to "wine"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/bin/../lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ntdll.so
Using native(wrapped) libunwind.so.8
Using native(wrapped) libfreetype.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libfontconfig.so.1
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/win32u.so
Using native(wrapped) libm.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libfreetype.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libfontconfig.so.1
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/opengl32.so
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ws2_32.so
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/winex11.so
Using native(wrapped) libXext.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libX11.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libxcb.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXau.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libXdmcp.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libXinerama.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXxf86vm.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXrender.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXrandr.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libXcomposite.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXi.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libXcursor.so.1
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS-3.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch-3.MPQ opened
archive Data\expansion.MPQ opened
archive Data\lichking.MPQ opened
archive Data\common.MPQ opened
archive Data\common-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\speech-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\expansion-locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\lichking-locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\expansion-speech-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\lichking-speech-enUS.MPQ opened
Using native(wrapped) libvulkan.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libGL.so.1
0164:fixme:d3d:wined3d_guess_card_vendor Received unrecognized GL_VENDOR "Broadcom". Returning HW_VENDOR_NVIDIA.
0164:fixme:ntdll:NtQuerySystemInformation info_class SYSTEM_PERFORMANCE_INFORMATION
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/winepulse.so
Using native(wrapped) libpulse.so.0
Using emulated /opt/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/winealsa.so
Using native(wrapped) libasound.so.2
0164:fixme:avrt:AvSetMmThreadCharacteristicsW (L"Pro Audio",0294FA44): stub
01b4:err:wininet:open_http_connection create_netconn failed: 12029

[github-actions]

Hello there 👋
Thanks for submitting your first issue to the Pi-Apps project! We'll try to get back to you as soon as possible.
In the meantime, we encourage you join our Discord server, where you can ask any questions you might have.

Please respond as soon as possible if a Pi-Apps maintainer requests more information from you. Stale issues will be closed after a lengthy period of time with no response.

[theofficialgman]

issues with wine compatibility with games and applications should be posted in the proper location at the wine bugtracker https://bugs.winehq.org/

They won't be interested in bugs when run through box64 so please reproduce the issue using the WOW64 build used in pi-apps on an x86_64 Linux system https://github.com/Pi-Apps-Coders/files/releases/download/large-files/wine-8.17.tar.gz

[coreybruce]

issues with wine compatibility with games and applications should be posted in the proper location at the wine bugtracker https://bugs.winehq.org/

They won't be interested in bugs when run through box64 so please reproduce the issue using the WOW64 build used in pi-apps on an x86_64 Linux system https://github.com/Pi-Apps-Coders/files/releases/download/large-files/wine-8.17.tar.gz

No the game runs fine in wine

Here is the game running on Manjaro x64 on my gaming PC in wine and the game works perfectly fine

The issue here that I am again reporting is wine in box64 which is causing issues so yes this is indeed a bug and and this should be re opened,

[theofficialgman]

No the game runs fine in wine

Here is the game running on Manjaro x64 on my gaming PC in wine and the game works perfectly fine

The issue here that I am again reporting is wine in box64 which is causing issues so yes this is indeed a bug and and this should be re opened,

read my message again.

 using the WOW64 build used in pi-apps on an x86_64 Linux system 

show the game running with the wow64 build linked in that post. simply extract that tarfile and run the wine build from there

[coreybruce]

No the game runs fine in wine
Here is the game running on Manjaro x64 on my gaming PC in wine and the game works perfectly fine
The issue here that I am again reporting is wine in box64 which is causing issues so yes this is indeed a bug and and this should be re opened,

read my message again.

 using the WOW64 build used in pi-apps on an x86_64 Linux system 

show the game running with the wow64 build linked in that post. simply extract that tarfile and run the wine build from there

Sure thing, I am downloading it right now to test

[coreybruce]

Sadly it has the same issue when I run the game from wine 8.17 in that tarfile

/home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine /home/corey/ChromieCraft/Wow.exe
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
BOX64: Wine64 detected, WINEPRELOADRESERVE=""
Counted 50 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine
argv[1]="/home/corey/ChromieCraft/Wow.exe"
Rename process to "wine"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/../lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ntdll.so
Using native(wrapped) libunwind.so.8
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
BOX64: Wine preloader detected, loading "/home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine" directly
BOX64: Wine64 detected, WINEPRELOADRESERVE=""
Counted 52 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine
argv[1]="/home/corey/ChromieCraft/Wow.exe"
Rename process to "wine"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/../lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ntdll.so
Using native(wrapped) libunwind.so.8
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
Counted 52 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wineserver
Rename process to "wineserver"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
0094:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0094:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0094:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0094:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
0114:err:localspl:process_attach failed to load symbol cupsCreateJob
012c:err:environ:init_peb starting L"C:\\windows\\syswow64\\rundll32.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
012c:err:localspl:process_attach failed to load symbol cupsCreateJob
0134:err:environ:init_peb starting L"C:\\windows\\syswow64\\iexplore.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
wine: configuration in L"F:\\home\\corey\\.wine" has been updated.
0024:err:environ:init_peb starting L"F:\\home\\corey\\ChromieCraft\\Wow.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/win32u.so
Using native(wrapped) libm.so.6
Dynarec for ARM64, with extension: ASIMD CRC32 PageSize:4096 Running on Cortex-A72 with 4 Cores
Params database has 30 entries
Box64 with Dynarec v0.2.5 b3daf55e built on Oct 22 2023 18:17:06
BOX64: Wine preloader detected, loading "/home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine" directly
BOX64: Wine64 detected, WINEPRELOADRESERVE="000400000-000494000"
Counted 54 Env var
BOX64 LIB PATH: ./:lib/:lib64/:x86_64/:bin64/:libs64/:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
BOX64 BIN PATH: ./:bin/:/usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin/:/usr/sbin/:/usr/bin/:/sbin/:/bin/:/usr/local/games/:/usr/games/
Looking for /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine
argv[1]="C:\windows\system32\conhost.exe"
argv[2]="--unix"
argv[3]="--width"
argv[4]="80"
argv[5]="--height"
argv[6]="24"
argv[7]="--server"
argv[8]="0x10"
Rename process to "wine"
Using native(wrapped) libdl.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libpthread.so.0
Using native(wrapped) libc.so.6
Using native(wrapped) ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libutil.so.1
Using native(wrapped) librt.so.1
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/../lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ntdll.so
Using native(wrapped) libunwind.so.8
Using native(wrapped) libfreetype.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libfontconfig.so.1
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/win32u.so
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/opengl32.so
Using native(wrapped) libm.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libfreetype.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libfontconfig.so.1
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/ws2_32.so
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/winex11.so
Using native(wrapped) libXext.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libX11.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libxcb.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXau.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libXdmcp.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libXinerama.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXxf86vm.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXrender.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXrandr.so.2
Using native(wrapped) libXcomposite.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libXi.so.6
Using native(wrapped) libXcursor.so.1
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS-3.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch-3.MPQ opened
archive Data\expansion.MPQ opened
archive Data\lichking.MPQ opened
archive Data\common.MPQ opened
archive Data\common-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\speech-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\expansion-locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\lichking-locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\expansion-speech-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\lichking-speech-enUS.MPQ opened
Using native(wrapped) libvulkan.so.1
Using native(wrapped) libGL.so.1
0024:fixme:d3d:wined3d_guess_card_vendor Received unrecognized GL_VENDOR "Broadcom". Returning HW_VENDOR_NVIDIA.
0024:fixme:ntdll:NtQuerySystemInformation info_class SYSTEM_PERFORMANCE_INFORMATION
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/winepulse.so
Using native(wrapped) libpulse.so.0
Using emulated /home/corey/wine-8.17/lib/wine/x86_64-unix/winealsa.so
Using native(wrapped) libasound.so.2
0024:fixme:avrt:AvSetMmThreadCharacteristicsW (L"Pro Audio",0294FA44): stub
0170:err:wininet:open_http_connection create_netconn failed: 12029

[theofficialgman]

Sadly it has the same issue when I run the game from wine 8.17 in that tarfile

read again... sigh.
you are supposed to test that build on your x86_64 pc (so your manjaro computer), not your raspberry pi. pi-apps already uses the build I linked so your testing showed us nothing we already don't know.

[coreybruce]

Ohh crap my bad, I'll test it now on Manjaro x64

[coreybruce]

Ok sorry for the misreading that part, yep I can confirm it works on Manjaro x64 using that wine from the tarball but doesn't on Raspberry pi OS through box64

/home/corey/wine-8.17/bin/wine /mnt/GameDrive/ChromieCraft/Wow.exe
007c:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
007c:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
007c:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
007c:fixme:hid:handle_IRP_MN_QUERY_ID Unhandled type 00000005
012c:err:environ:init_peb starting L"C:\\windows\\syswow64\\rundll32.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
0134:err:environ:init_peb starting L"C:\\windows\\syswow64\\iexplore.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
wine: configuration in L"/home/corey/.wine" has been updated.
0024:err:environ:init_peb starting L"Z:\\mnt\\GameDrive\\ChromieCraft\\Wow.exe" in experimental wow64 mode
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\patch-enUS-3.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\patch-3.MPQ opened
archive Data\Patch-F.MPQ opened
archive Data\Patch-G.MPQ opened
archive Data\Patch-H.MPQ opened
archive Data\Patch-S.MPQ opened
archive Data\Patch-T.MPQ opened
Unable to read extra attributes: "Data\Patch-X.MPQ"
archive Data\Patch-X.MPQ opened
archive Data\expansion.MPQ opened
archive Data\lichking.MPQ opened
archive Data\common.MPQ opened
archive Data\common-2.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\speech-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\expansion-locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\lichking-locale-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\expansion-speech-enUS.MPQ opened
archive Data\enUS\lichking-speech-enUS.MPQ opened
0024:fixme:ntdll:NtQuerySystemInformation info_class SYSTEM_PERFORMANCE_INFORMATION
0194:err:wininet:open_http_connection create_netconn failed: 12029

[theofficialgman]

Ok sorry for the misreading that part, yep I can confirm it works on Manjaro x64 using that wine from the tarball but doesn't on Raspberry pi OS through box64

cool. Then there is likely nothing that can be done. Box64 does not generally produce any errors/bugs in rendering. So the issues that you see on the Pi are likely due to missing or broken support from the GPU drivers (mesa bug report -> https://docs.mesa3d.org/bugs.html)

If this game is free and you have download/install instructions you can give me I can test for you using a different ARM64 system that has fully conformant (and mostly bug free) OpenGL 4.6 and Vulkan 1.3 (Nvidia Jetson Orin). That will rule out any potential box64 issues.

[coreybruce]

Ok sorry for the misreading that part, yep I can confirm it works on Manjaro x64 using that wine from the tarball but doesn't on Raspberry pi OS through box64

cool. Then there is likely nothing that can be done. Box64 does not generally produce any errors/bugs in rendering. So the issues that you see on the Pi are likely due to missing or broken support from the GPU drivers (mesa bug report -> https://docs.mesa3d.org/bugs.html)

If this game is free and you have download/install instructions you can give me I can test for you using a different ARM64 system that has fully conformant (and mostly bug free) OpenGL 4.6 and Vulkan 1.3 (Nvidia Jetson Orin). That will rule out any potential box64 issues.

Ahh I see well that's unfortunate also what Arm system has a Nvidia gpu in it exactly? does that mean that the issue can't be fixed and can't be run on the Pi 4?

Yeah the game is free, just download it from https://www.chromiecraft.com/en/downloads/

and the game works out of the box in wine so you don't have to do anything

[theofficialgman]

Ahh I see well that's unfortunate also what Arm system has a Nvidia gpu in it exactly?

read again. I wrote the name.

does that mean that the issue can't be fixed and can't be run on the Pi 4?

read again. I wrote where to report the issue (if it ends up being a GPU driver bug). It is unknown right now whether it is a broadcom GPU hardware limitation/issue (can not be fixed) or a V3D driver limitation/issue (can be fixed).

[coreybruce]

Ohh right I got you now, hmm I see well if it is a bug I hope it can be fixed or if it is a bug in box64 hopefully the team could do something also tho if it is a bug in the GPU driver hopefully it can be resolved. I have seen videos of this game running tho I believe it was Wow classic instead of Chromiecraft which is the same game bug just on a private server.

The expansion of the game came out in 2008 so you could imagine how old the requirements are haha