Introducing Clarion #2
Replies: 57 comments 72 replies
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In a word: Inspirational! Over the coming years, this platform could have a vast & profound impact by delivering truly censor-resistant communication and data-sharing for Mankind. Well done, sir! |
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Is this gonna be a SERVER-LESS app? |
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What is the best way for an investor who wants to support this endeavor to get involved with the project? |
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Looks promising. |
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Why not IPv6 instead of NAT traversal ? |
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kcp @eikrlan the reason not ipv6 instead of nat traversal is that v6 is poorly deployed and poorly supported. |
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though, revisiting this post, it surely should be both. |
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Three Family Dogs go！go！go！ |
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Congrats! Looking forward to its progress |
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Will b1 support this project with funds? and will it do airdrop to every EOS holder? |
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1 |
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If there are tokens, then they could be airdropped on EOS. |
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The previous era was built by railroad tycoons and their wealth. One of the exciting promises of #bitcoin was that it would create a new age of wealth in the hands of people with a combination of cypherpunk / anarchist / libertarian / austrian economics mentalities. This is the exact sort of project I would hope to see succeed and fight back against the tyranny that we see in big government and big tech. |
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If Clarion OS is considered layer 0, what layer is ICMP-Chat considered then, -1? :) |
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Subzero |
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@jonathanbahai damn, you still around? What a small world. Go Peerplays |
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how many distributed node servers it need, which store the messages? |
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It should work from a single server to any number of servers. |
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It says that message no cache on server, the message trans by peer to peer, but how the friends get the message when I post |
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I would imagine it resides on the commenter's computer until that 2nd person comes back online and pull it to theirs. It could also be pulled from friends of the commenter who were online and backed it up. |
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But this time they are all offline who have pulled message, how to do that |
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Over my head, but maybe one friend of each group, is a service that records but then auto deletes if a few others have grabbed it. Maybe that same "friend"/service could detect when too many parties are going offline, grab what they can from remaining nodes and store it for a predetermined time, and maybe then push to a blockchain at another set limit, prepaid. |
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who can delete the message beyond the publisher & how to process the illegal message? |
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You can only request the deletion of the message on your computer and from your friends computers, but if anyone else gets a copy then you cannot delete it (you can't remove it from your followers feeds once they get it). The only content on your computer will be from your friends or those you follow (or anyone they "retweet"). You can also trust your friends moderation to delete content you don't want that is published by someone you follow. No random people will be able to push content to you. |
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Does it sound like multiple ipfs private networks type application? |
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Hey Daniel sorry i have no knowledge of programming and i want to know is Clarion an ecosystem of its own like a new blockchain or it will be build on top of a dapp that runs on EOS or eth |
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Blockchains will run on top of ClarionOS not the other way around. |
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Cool, cool! Sounds like an operating system for the entire planet Earth. |
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Will there be a token for monetization? |
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The platform does not have a token at its foundation. It can integrate with existing token systems. |
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Welcome to integrate with the vigor stablecoin protocol. Give users a better way to hodl their tokens. |
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When to issue the token? |
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Please. No token. |
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Another question... what will happen to harmful/bad content being broadcasted on Clarion How will it be solved / dealt with ...and who will have such authority to do such thing |
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People stop following/friending them. Content only ever follows intentional connections. For example, I would never see a "your a scammer" message. |
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This is the correct answer. "Bad/Harmful content" is arbitrary, and society should directly police what they deem to be good or bad content strictly by choosing to consume or not consume that content. As soon as some governing authority gets to make these decisions for everyone, then this platform would no longer truly be decentralized. |
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So should I be able to plagiarize content you produce on Clarion and take credit for it as my own? "Yes, I am stealing from you and passing it off as my original work. If you don't like it, go away!" If the answer is yes, then there should absolutely be 100% KYC. |
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You're thinking of centralized services like Facebook and Twitter who host and broadcast content. Messages flowing on a service like Clarion are more like someone sending you a text - except the text cannot be read by the phone company. If you receive objectionable texts you block their number which is equivalent of not being their friend any more. |
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A lot of the concepts here are similar to https://holochain.org, leaving a note here to investigate further what lessons can be learned from holochain or if we can leverage their work. |
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If you are looking at holochain then nano I think it's worth looking at as well. |
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Hi, Holochain core team member here. Happy to talk if you have questions. I'd also encourage you to check out Secure Scuttlebutt https://scuttlebutt.nz , which is similar to Holochain but uses the friend-to-friend propagation model you're describing. Hypercore https://hypercore-protocol.org is similar too, but uses a more BitTorrent- or IPFS-like propagation model (that is, I seed the things I'm interested in, and a DHT handles seeder discovery). |
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I'm glad to see this discussion. @bytemaster you should consider joining the holochain community. They would be happy to work with you. |
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It seems like utilizing Holochain as a host for data solves the problem of "I'm on a new computers and all my friends are offline, how do I get their messages" or "my friends sent me a message but his browser is offline now so how to I fetch it". |
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All the smartest people from rchain headed to holochain |
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Hi Dan, I'm just wondering if Clarion will port data from existing social media networks? I believe the data governance act article 20 may soon require by law that social platforms give users the ability to authorize access to their whole history via an API. There was a discussion about this talking about this by founders of some other data related projects. https://youtu.be/fJ42u4IiVTM?t=2480 |
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This will certainly be a possibility worth looking into. |
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I like the tech byte master |
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Great idea,I would be happy to join the dev team or contribute to this project |
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What kind of skills do you have? Any other projects that you are involved with? |
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C++ 17(STL,Boost,CMake), EOS smart contracts Last 2 years i focus on EOS blockchain
Main project: https://paycash.app Last project: https://github.com/Avm07/mindswap-smart-contracts There are a lot of more dApps which is currently launched on EOS mainnet, but not open sourced. |
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Any plans to add Python bindings? I think that would make it more accessible to the developers community and allow for more applications to flourish on top of it. |
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I think it would be great. Python is fascinating. |
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I have a similar idea. You should do better than me！ |
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On the issue of sensitive conten: how about Deep Learning components that run on the network, and perform some filtering? For example, there could be a porn filter. It would be then up to the user to decide whether they'd like to turn the filter on / off depending on their use-case. Using bounties, deep learning engineers could continue improving the algorithms. |
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Isn't the user only gonna see content of people he's following? |
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I assume there is no formal kind of identity system other than perhaps signing of a message so messages signed with that same key are assumed to come from the same person (or joint holders of that key). Is the only means for discovery by a person to person invite - scan a QR code to add someone as a friend or get one via an existing third party system. But once connected to at least one person I could not discover how to add say Dan Larimer unless someone I know shares a message from him. And even then I could not be sure which Dan Larimer it is. Is that correct? |
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Do my friends get a copy of all of my messages or just the ones I've sent/shared with them? For instance I have friends Bob and Alice and send Bob a message from a browser on my home computer. Now I got to the library and get online from a new browser - it obviously doesn't have any Clarion state and my home computer is off. If Bob's computer is now offline will Alice have a copy (encrypted) of the message I sent Bob? Or I can I now only see the union of all messages that were sent by me to people with browsers currently online? Actually can I even access Clarion as me if all my other browsers that have "me" as state in them are offline? Or does it always require a sync from an existing system to know who all my friends are? |
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👀 |
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I am happy to contribute too. Successfully launched EOS Smart contracts for Regenerative Economy - github.com/JoinSeeds -. Safe and Free Social Network is next evolutionary step towards truly Regenerative Society. |
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Sounds like the enabling tech for the shower coin, or is it the new incarnation for that idea? |
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I am developer and I am willing to contribute to this project. I am aware of C# , Java , node js, asynchronous messaging , react js and cryptography technics. |
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Any way to integrate cMIX, dVPN, and dClouds into ClarionOS? For true E2E. As you're likely very aware that without encryption there is zero digital freedom. Plus quantum processing is here, now. And RSA's days are numbered. PS- I dig how you think. And am available to assist. |
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Yes the hardware is you the wallet is YOU
Quilts and pushcards Linda love lace
…On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 09:17 Ami Heines ***@***.***> wrote:
Sounds like the enabling tech for the shower coin, or is it the new
incarnation for that idea?
Are there any ideas for hardware networking layers to make this
independent of the big tech and making it more resistant to being
interrupted by outsider companies?
Perhaps EdenOS communities can implement an Infra-red network of servers
which will be the backbone of the clarion network for the community. (Just
a half baked idea)
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This is a much needed product in the world of today, censorship already is ramped, I believe Daniel Larimer can lead the team to accomplish decentralized communication like this! |
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Imagine a tech that would eliminate the need for email and phone altogether. |
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and others
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Introduction
Clarion aims to give everyone in the world the tools to broadcast their message to everyone who wants to hear their message without creating dependencies on centralized infrastructure. It will achieve this with a censorship resistant "friend to friend" network which will leverage the unused resources of your friends and family to distribute your content.
The ultimate goal is to provide the performance and reliability of a "centralized service" with the freedom and independence of a logically decentralized network. With the help of the Clarion community we can free our friends and family from the tyranny of Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Amazon, Apple and Google and produce a social network free from manipulation and 3rd party dependence.
Prior Art
Clarion learns lessons from other projects, including RetroShare, Hive (previously SteemIt ), and Voice. RetroShare is far closer to the desired level of decentralization, but has a clunky interface that isn't viable on mobile. Meanwhile, blockchain based networks are "logically centralized" and require all full nodes to process all transactions. This is not suitable for home users at scale and creates dependencies on a small number of web portals.
One of the more successful decentralized protocols is IPFS and IPNS. These P2P protocols facilitate the publishing of location independent websites; however, they have a couple of drawbacks. Among these drawbacks are the need to keep your own node online in order to seed your content -- there is no free way to "push to IPFS". There is also a high latency to looking up content. Lastly, there is not really an opportunity for dynamic multi-user interaction.
Protocols like Zeronet provide an application framework to build dynamic websites which are loaded/shared over the BitTorrent protocol. My experience with Zeronet is that it doesn't work well on Mobile, it takes a long time to "sync" pages, and suffers from excessive spam or needed moderation. At scale, a Zeronet application is just a logically centralized as a blockchain application.
Progressive Web Application
One of the architectural design decisions that sets Clarion apart from most other peer to peer applications is the choice to utilize a progressive web application powered by Web Assembly. Recent actions by Google, Amazon, and Apple have demonstrated that we cannot rely on app stores and hosting providers to distribute our applications and content. This means the only viable way to get a censorship resistant application onto a cell phone is via Progressive Web Applications.
Web Assembly allows us to implement the logic of our social network in high-performance C++ while reusing most of the same code in the browser that we use in "full nodes" running on open platforms like desktops or personal servers.
Application Platform
The core of the Clarion OS is a friend-to-friend message propagation protocol that enables the following kinds of message flows between cryptographic identities:
Utilizing Web Assembly plugins it should be possible to build many different kinds of applications on top of Clarion OS, including tokens and smart contracts. A key distinction between Clarion OS and prior blockchain platforms is that the base layer has no need to reach consensus on the "order" of user actions nor to interpret the meaning of transactions. If typical Ethereum and EOS smart contracts are considered "layer 1", then Clarion OS could be considered "layer 0".
Project Status
Clarion OS is just getting started and is in the early design stage. We are assembling a team of developers to build the first prototypes. This project will be developed in the open and welcomes contributions from anyone interested in restoring the internet to the level of logical decentralization that was intended before Big Tech locked us into their services and stopped producing tools that empower people.
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