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Warlock pet scaling #847
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Felguard is doing almost the same dmg as other pets, he should be doing much more, it was reported that in T5 instances he is capable of 300-400 DPS. In this link you can see people stating what dmg felguard does with certain amounts of spell dmg. Link : http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30146/summon-felguard#comments:0 „With 700SP – 250-350 melee swings on cloth target“ Attack power that your pets get from your spell power is correct, which is 57%. The problem has to be in AP to DPS ratio or in felguards base weapon DPS. Lets find out – last post on this page: http://wowmb.net/forums/f9/13262-felguard_how_use_what_wear/p5/ Thank god for this picture, we can gather some crucial data: http://s23.photobucket.com/user/apep_wow/media/FG_3K_AP_052307.jpg.html AP: 3146, as we can see it gives 224,7 DPS From the Picture we can get the overall DPS very easily: Melee dmg is 763-819 and that is |[(819-763) / 2] + 763| /2 = 395,5 DPS (with + 20% +5% +5% modifiers from talent, soul link and MD -multiplicative stacking) X + 0,2X = 395,5 ................ X = 329,58333333 This is felguard blizzlike pure weapon DPS before talents and AP contribution: This is at lvl 70, I do not know if his weapon DPS does change with lvl. The current pure weapon damage at level 70 has 35 DPS and that makes Felguard spec completely broken. According to one wowhead post he should do 200+ hits at lvl 60 therefore I suposse that his weapon DPS does not really change with level: on 2006/12/29 (Patch 2.0.1) 74,24179894 DPS + 224,7 DPS = 298,94179894 + 20% + 5 % + 5% = 395,5 DPS as shown in the picture. After this fix the damage should be just as described in wowhead posts. |
Another tiny bug that I found: talent Unholy power that increases pet damage by +20% stacks with Soul Link (+5%) additively and not multiplicatively. Additive stacking : X * ( 1 + 0,2 + 0,05) Unholy power is a damage increase through talent and Soul Link is a damage increase through castable buff, they should not have additive stacking. This results in 2-10 damage loss per swing depending on your gear and buffs. http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/8776-a-simple-question-on-percentages-values/ |
We've previously done all the calculations for scaling of hp, armor and mana. The reason they're not correct on the server seems to be a rounding error in the scaling code. I've double checked my calculations and the following is all correct (given that the rounding error gets fixed):
What isn't done:
Any input on the last three points would be nice. I wouldn't spend time running the calculations on the things that are already completed, just verify that they work next test after the rounding error has been fixed. |
I've fixed the rounding error. The three aforementioned points still need looking at (resistance, mp5, damage). |
I came accross this thread http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/26518-tom-chilton-pets-are-just-fine/page__st__140 Next post talks about 350 resist with the warlock trinket 210+130=340 (missing 10poitnt somewhere) An other post from same link but on page 7 The last post i quoted seems to be the one that was made with the more "care" so i'd say it's more accurate on the resist value than the others. |
About damage there is an incomplete list of succubus stats per level (lvl 70 are there though) on this thread. If i'm not mistaken, by looking at the "edit history" this was written in march 2008 edit: from the screen you linked i compared resistance with the same buffs on corecraft |
Found some stats of ap and dps scaling for pet at the bottom of this page. some additional info about pet attack power (stats are for lvl 60 during tbc prepatch): seems after 2.0.3 felguard nerf, he still had the same attack power, must be base dps that was nerfed, or ap/dps ratio So if base ap was also the same for all pet at lvl 70 (except imp) and the succubus stats from my previous post are correct, then base ap would be 286. |
Other lvl 60 stats at 2.0, problem is i don't know what stats and talents the warlock had round 2: http://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/10062-Stats-for-level-70-felguard |
THIS POST SEEMS TO BE INVALID DUE TO TLK CHANGES: i so hope stats and scaling didn't change at 3.0.2 cause dat guy might save us calculations from this video gave me those stats: pet ap/14 = bonus dps pet dps if master demonologist talent is multiplicative pet dps if master demono is additive slight problem the ratio pet ap/ master spell power isn't 0.57 Please verify my math, i used to fell asleep during class ^^ https://youtu.be/Zpx4liKIfJY?t=542 EDIT: after comparing stats from tbc and early tlk for the same pet, it seems many things have changed concerning pets. I tried using changelog info to obtain tbc numbers, but it's pulling different numbers than the tbc video from below. Only thing that is confirmed, is that base ap of lvl 70 pet is indeed 286 (tbc succubus from wiki link, felguard and voidwalker in tlk video) |
about pet stamina and intel i found that post http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Demonic_Knowledge succubus: 82 retail / 82 cc oh an btw PRE WOTLK VIDEO WOOT! of voildwalker... could have been better, but considering he is the one that got changed the most at tlk, it gives us a baseline. Here are some info pulled from the tbc video, some are blank for now because i miss the data on the video (pet mana, warlock intel and stamina) im might be able to use @Mephisto22 's posts for that Base stats of a 70 voidwalker scale ap: 57%master I'm stuggling here, i can't find a talent build that would give me base pet stamina and intel able to do the calcutation from this page: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Demonic_Knowledge _ratio ap/dps assumed at 1/14 like felguard, viable on voidwalker 3.0.2 video intel tootip (133 +113) gives 2625 mana 6.41% crit |
That info about Demonic Knowledge numbers from wowwiki is 100% pre-nerf. I dont remember the details but I realized that 2 months ago. As for Voidwalker / Felguard stamina to HP ratio you can test it empirically. Equip an UD lock on CC so that void has 610 stamina and check for his HP. Do the same with gnome and Felguard (u might need some buffs from other players). And Felhunter - if it works now according to my first post. Then post here the results so that we can see if there are still bugs with stats. Mana regen: Damage: Have fun, I deleted WoW and I am probably not going to participate in next test :) |
Yeah, nice input. I'll go look at stats of classes an void tomorrow while server is still up. And i'll do the Demonic Knowledge calculations with other races too. ps: warlock has only 15 points in demology, pet dps isn't boosted at all by talents, or buffs. As for your felguard calcuation they are just missing two parameters. |
I would have thought that Voidwalker has different AP to DPS ratio from Felguard. Demonic Frenzy buff doesnt really matter because it increases attack power and not total damage done, he has totem buffs, pala buffs etc. , the only thing that matters is his total AP and additional DPS it provides. I used multiplicative stacking for all % damage modifiers because I dont really see a reason there should be additive stacking. According to info from elitistjerks everything is multiplicative except for damage increase that comes directly through talents. I checked Contagion, Shadow Mastery, Imp CoA and they have additive stacking with each other. I checked Emberstorm and Improved Immolate - additive stacking as it should. Then I checked Soul Link with Master Demonologist and they had multiplicative stacking as they should. but... something seemed to be wrong, numbers were a little bit different... then I thought that maybe MD behaves as damage increase directly through talent even though it is a buff, I tested both and found out. suprisingly, that SL stacks additively with Unholy Power. And I dont see any logic behind that. Castable buffs (and debuffs) should stack multiplicatively, addons and damage spreadsheets support that as well. I included all decimal numbers, because any rounding would mess up with my calculations, but it should be very close to the real numbers. Well, it was hard for retail players to get the real numbers, I remember Blizz stating that they compared some numbers from player theorycrafting with theirs and that they were sometimes really surprised how close they were to the real ones. 100% blizzlike is practically impossible, we can only be 99,9% blizzlike |
Damn yeah, i dismissed the idea about frenzy earlier but couldn't figure out how i did before, so i assumed i had make a mistake. Now for other pet i have yet to find out pictures, 3.3.3 tests show the 0.57 ratio spell power to pet dps is still ok but ap/dps ratio are diffferent, and i don't know if it was already like that at tbc. |
Alright, here's the cc/retail comparison.
I'll continue to investigate this a bit more, like doing the comparison of voidwalker from the tbc video in previous posts, but it seems numbers are very close, so i'll go back to DPS and then mana regen afterward. EDIT: just did the hp comparison from voidwalker with 610 stamina on pet |
I found this spreadsheet but i'm struggling a bit to decipher the infos on the file, maybe someone who's more used to it than me should take a look at it too. edit: there definetly seems to be some valuable infos regarding dps and stats on that one.
base stam: 114 (most likely wrong) (257.2 from wowiki if reporter's toon was untalented) ratio pet ap/damage input: 7/1 (ap/dps: 14/1) lash of pain (maxrank): 103 + petdamage*0.429
base stam: 114 firebolt base damage: 119.5
base stam: 322 ratio pet ap/damage input: 7/1 (ap/dps: 14/1) cleave (max rank): petdamage 0 ap + petap/7+ 78
base health: 869 base ap: 286 (20.4 dps)
edit 4: some guy in comment says succubus stamina is incorrect. |
Sorry for posting just some observations without any proofs or new research results but I just tested low level warlock leveling and it feels really weird. I'm not sure whether it's about regeneration or stat scaling but I had issues with my pets. I tried to find videos of warlock low level leveling at Vanilla or tBC times but didn't succeed. |
The amount of text/info in this thread seems to be overwhelming, various issues were addressed so here is a summary of remaining bugs that need to be fixed: pet scaling of mp5 is too high Felguard base dps (0 AP) is too low It should be: The only logical explanation so far is that blizz slightly stealth-buffed Felguard's dps later in BC after 2.0.3 overnerf. Or the guy from elitistsjerks made a mistake. Dmg bonus from Soul Link and Unholy Power talent stack additively - they should stack multiplicatively |
Every single private server has to find their way around pet scaling. At first I thought that the goal of having them completely blizzlike may be impossible. But then I did deep research.
I have tested following rules which should apply to each pet:
So far all numbers were correct. However, the tricky part is that all the pets actually scale differently. They dont scale like players – 1 stamina equals 10 hp. They have different scaling factors, thats why voidwalker gets more hp from stamina, they are balanced around those factors which are, unfortunately, secret to us and most private servers usually just try to make up their own scaling factors and base statistics of the pets.
I focused on fellhunter which is the most important pet for PvP. In these videos you can see hp and mana of a fellhunter and also warlocks stamina and intellect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDGtKZ-xRuo 0:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmVkJTmKiFE 0:26
I compared those numbers to corecraft. I had the same spec, almost the same amount of stamina and intellect (+/- 1) and the numbers were different:
First example: My felhunter had 5845 hp instead of 6127 as shown in the first video.
I found out that corecraft uses these scaling factors: 9 HP per 1 point of stamina and 11 mana per 1 point of intellect for fellhunter. They are obviously wrong.
Following calculations are done with all talent modifiers:
Pet stamina with naked warlock = 353 and that is 3595 hp on corecraft
353 * 9 = 3177 hp from stamina. Therefore 3595 – 3177 = 418 (probably HP fellhunter has with 0 stamina ?? )
Naked lvl70 UD warlock 88 stamina – (88 *0,3) * 1,15 = 30,36 stamina for pet =´273,24 hp
Pet basic stamina = 322,64 = 2903,76 hp
2903,76 + 418 = 3321,76 HP which pet has on his own
Warlock with 813 stamina – pet gains 2250 HP from his gear on CC
3321,76 + 2250 + 273,24 = 5845 total HP
So now I have to find basic HP of fellhunter which he theoretically has without warlock and correct scaling factor of his stamina so that it would match data from both retail server videos. According to the first video he should have 6127 HP with warlocks 813 stamina. And from second video he should have 4702 HP while warlock has just 377 stamina.
Simple linear equations:
[(813 * 0,3) * 1,15] x = 6127 – y
[(377 * 0,3) * 1,15] x = 4702 – y
To make it shorter, X = 9,4734742721 – this is the stamina factor scaling
Y = 3469,8325688 this is HP without warlock – so it is more than on corecraft
Pet gains a little bit more HP from warlocks gear
Fellhunter would have on retail in S4 gear around 400 hp more than on CC...... So to sum up, completely Blizzlike Fellhunter HP scaling mechanic before warlock stamina and talents would be as follows:
BASIC STAMINA without any contribution of warlock stats (even naked warlock stats) should stay the same as it is so that this change doesnt mess up with Demonic Knowledge talent: 280,1261052606596 stamina
BASIC HEALTH of fellhunter with 0 stamina: 418
SCALING FACTOR OF STAMINA: 9,4734742721 HP per 1 point of stamina
I did exactly the same for Mana and the results are:
BASIC INTELLECT before warlock and talents: 131 intellect
BASIC MANA: 905
SCALING FACTOR OF INTELLECT: 11,506368028 mana per 1 intellect point
Now lets check it out with talent modifiers and compare it with video:
For HP: 418 + [(280,1261052606596 * 1,15) * 9,4734742721] + [(813 * 0,3 * 1,15) * 9,4734742721] = 6127,000000009969
418 + [(280,1261052606596 * 1,15) * 9,4734742721] + [(377 * 0,3 * 1,15) * 9,4734742721] = 4702,000000000687
For Mana: 905 + [(131 * 1,15) * 11,506368028] + [(375 * 0,3 * 1,15) * 11,506368028] = 4127,0707070407 as it can be seen in the first video
I could do the same thing for other pets but I need videos with alike information and that would be much harder to find. Also Felguard is horribly bugged, his dmg is way too low, I will have a look at him and post into this topic asap.
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