add conventional keybindings for "quit" action

[bill-auger]

its probably a good idea to add ALT-F4 and CTRL-Q as alternate default keybindings, in addition to ESC - maybe even to omit default ESC binding - ESC is non-intuitive and really a poor choice anyways; because it is too easy to hit it accidentally

[jin146]

The ESC key could be ommited and re-assigned to replace space key for erasing loops. Holding it down is not something that could occur accidentaly.

This would allow to make space key an alternative to the midi footswitch, enabling two-handed instruments players to use Freewheeling as an "plug-and-play" cheap pedal looper : if one doesn't own a non-latching sustain pedal or a midi footswitch, the keyboard can simply be put on the ground and space key triggered by foot.

[magnetophon]

because it is too easy to hit it accidentally

As a vim-user I hit ESC a lot, without thinking about it.
I've quit free-wheeling by accident way to many times.

[bill-auger]

those suggestion are interesting - perhaps you have used loopidity? - that hands-free operation, simulating a stomp-box looper, is the very reason i wrote loopidity - in the absence of a MIDI interface, ESC erases the most recently recorded loop, and SPACE is the primary trigger - loopidity was directly inspired by freewheeling; but intentionally has a very limited set of features, to be as simple as possible to use for hands-free, live performance the simpler loopidity behavior could be incorporated into freewheeling as a special mode; but i have always seen them as separate use-cases - freewheeling being best-suited for free-form improvisation; and loopidity for more structured accompaniment

[jin146]

• perhaps you have used
  loopidity? - that hands-free operation, simulating a stomp-box
  looper, is the very reason i wrote loopidity

I saw your loopidity repo and checked it several times, but there's that button indicating "linux build fails" that prevented me from trying to compile it. I am now even more interested in it. Can I compile it for a Gnu/linux OS ?

the simpler loopidity behavior could be incorporated into
freewheeling as a special mode

I think it deserves to be used by default.
I consider that idea of using Space Key as Switch loop trigger like a win/win improvement, and can't see any loss in terms of UI ergonomy. Activating the "special mode" would be as simple as putting the keyboard on the ground !
Using ESC key as erase-loop control is even a gain as it's more intuitive than spacebar for that job.

[bill-auger]

yea youre right - i should replace that image with a nice green one jokes aside, that indicator is only indicating my lack of interest in CI - the program works just fine :)

[bill-auger]

the "special mode" is not that simple - freewheeling would not have the same behavior without mergin the loopidity code into it with freewheeling, every loop must be selected and triggered manually - with loopidity, only the begin and end points of the first loop of each "scene", need to be set manually, then it carries on creating new loops automatically

[jin146]

freewheeling would not
have the same behavior without mergin the loopidity code into it

What I was thinking about was just modifying a some xml binding files, like midifootswitch.xml with something like the following (I'm bad at it, just an example) :

 <!-- Trigger Loops -->
    <binding input="key"
     conditions= "key=space and keydown=1"
     output1="trigger-loop" 
     parameters1="loopid=VAR_loopid_footswitch and vol=1.0" 
     output2="set-variable" parameters2="var=VAR_xferloop and value=1"
     output3="set-variable" parameters3="var=VAR_xferidx and
                                         value=VAR_loopid_footswitch"/>
  </bindings>

this way, space key would act just like a midifootswitch triggering the "SW" loop down the screen, and making it ready for moving on another spot. The rest of it would be just a matter of switching all occurencies of space and esc key in coreinterface.xml.

with loopidity, only the begin and end points of the
first loop of each "scene", need to be set manually, then it
carries on creating new loops automatically

That's really interesting, I will try loopidity asap and give you my opinion about it. About this key switching topic, I think we we were talking about different kind of improvements.

[bill-auger]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 04:42:26 -0700 jin146 wrote: think we we were talking about different kind of improvements.

yes, i misunderstood the suggestion - that is because it is already possible - the XML configuration system allows anyone to customize all of the event triggers the main problem with using the space key to trigger loops, is that the space key is the only way to delete loops; so some other key would need to be changed to delete loops - im pretty sure that all of the standard meta-keys have functions already that would conflict with some other functionality it would be no problem to do that for yourself; if you do not mind losing some other functionality, such as selecting/grouping loops, snapshots, and the popup browsers - it may be tricky to find a combination that would allow all functions at once - i think the windows key is unused - that would be the next natural choice; but apples do not have that key - OTOH, freewheeling no longer builds for apple computers; so that may be an option that configuration as you described it, is really not as handy as you may be thinking - the foot-switch loop is a only temporary "staging" slot - in order to keep the foot-switch loop; you still need to move it to some other loop location, before triggering another - freewheeling simply can not be used with a small number of triggers this is no problem while playing a synth, because you can use some of the piano notes to store loops; but freewheeling is somewhat cumbersome for analog instruments, such as guitars, horns, drums, unless you use an array of real foot pedals, or a dance-mat type of device - the only way to manage it with a PC keyboard, is to trigger the next loop in advance, after setting a pulse, when the pulse is between 3/4 and 100% that is the reason why i made loopidity, so that all functions could be triggered hand-free, by a small number of foot-switches, and the number of loops would not be limited by the number of pedals

[jin146]

some other key would need to be changed to delete loops - im pretty sure
that all of the standard meta-keys have functions already that
would conflict with some other functionality

That's why I suggested the Esc key for that. It would be free if you replace it with Alt+F4 or something similar. I also find it more intuitive than space key for delete function.

the foot-switch loop is a only temporary
"staging" slot - in order to keep the foot-switch loop; you
still need to move it to some other loop location, before
triggering another

When you trigger a loop with the footswitch, it is automatically activated as XFR loop, this way when the loop starts to play, you simply have to hit any other key and the SW slot is ready for another loop. I suggested to use space key with the same behaviour.

that is the reason why i made loopidity, so that all functions
could be triggered hand-free, by a small number of
foot-switches, and the number of loops would not be limited by
the number of pedals

I don't really agree with that limitation, but it is true that one has to hit the keys very often. I tried loopidity wich I like a lot for that automatic loops recording at every end of cycle. You really pushed the principle one step further. I only found that "hand-free" function in modep, a looper only available on windows.
It can be quite stressing though to have automatic loops recording everytime. Can recording be stopped in any way ? I also couldn't figure out how to change the scene. Maybe I should ask this in loopidity's issues ?

[bill-auger]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2020 12:40:00 -0700 jin146 wrote: I don't really agree with that limitation, but it is true that one has to hit the keys very often.

that is the limitation - every loop needs a dedicated button to store it, stop it, and start it - the only alternative is using a mouse or joystick to select loops; but that is not hand-free WRT deleting loops: the ESC key would probably only be able to delete the last recorded loop - the space key is currently used to delete any loop, at any time; but im not sure if the ESC key can be used in combination with every other key, in the same way - it would take some experimentation WRT loopidity: the wiki has fairly complete documentation and a tutorial https://github.com/bill-auger/loopidity/wiki

[jin146]

im not sure if the ESC key
can be used in combination with every other key, in the same way
it would take some experimentation

Ok, I will make some experiments with the config files. If I find something interesting, I will post it here.

WRT loopidity: the wiki has fairly complete documentation and a
tutorial https://github.com/bill-auger/loopidity/wiki

Nice ! Thank you !