Add special rendering for shop=charity

[kocio-pl]

shop=charity has more than 2,5k uses and a wiki page. We already show it as a general dot.

My draft:

1. 

[matthijsmelissen]

An horizontal open hand is also often used as symbol for charity.

[kocio-pl]

I'll try it, thanks for the idea! In the meantime different take:
2)
3) - see also #1776 (comment)

[matthijsmelissen]

Unfortunately none of the presented examples are very clear to me - what do others think?

[kocio-pl]

I still plan to test your idea, however had no time lately.

[pnorman]

Unfortunately none of the presented examples are very clear to me

Likewise. In order of preference, they would be 1, 2, and 3, but I don't like any of them.

[kocio-pl]

I guess this is not something worth exploring at this moment.

[lakedistrictOSM]

Another way of looking at charity shops is that they are essentially a reuse/recycle point for clothes, books etc - what would the department_store icon look like if the & was replaced with the recycling icon (or a simplified version)? I'm having problem with Inkscape at the moment so can't test this myself.

If this works it could be used for shop=second_hand too.

(charity is now 5k and second_hand is 6k)

[kocio-pl]

I can't imagine it, so some real design would be needed to test it. Just the current recycle bin icon in violet would be probably not distinct enough.

[lakedistrictOSM]

Not just the recycle bin icon but with a bag or basket. This was what I had in mind, but the recycling icon doesn't work well at a smaller size:

I have some other ideas for charity shop icons as well which I might try out when I have some free time.

[kocio-pl]

The right one looks quite good to me. Could you post a gist with them?

[lakedistrictOSM]

I only saved a PNG version because I didn't like it - but it's basically just the department_store icon with the "&" replaced with the recycling icon, as big as it can be inside the bag shape. Sorry @kocio-pl !

[kocio-pl]

@Tomasz-W What do you think about it?

[Tomasz-W]

For me, some 'refresh' symbol would fit here better. A 'recycling' symbol is too much associated with ecology topic, so it may be confusing.

http://simpleicon.com/wp-content/uploads/refresh.png

I can try to combine it with bag shape for shop=charity
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/symbols/doctors.svg

and t-shirt shape for shop=second_hand
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/symbols/shop/clothes.svg

[kocio-pl]

Great, nice idea! So I reopen the issue.

[Tomasz-W]

• shop=charity:
  

• shop=second_hand
  

For shop=second_hand we could consider to use a shop=clothes icon, they are quice simillar objects.

[lakedistrictOSM]

Both good designs, shop=charity is clearer for me.

shop=second_hand don't necessarily sell clothes, four second_hand shops near me don't sell any clothes but mainly books, bric-a-brac and antiques. (This is in the UK, I imagine what a second_hand shop sells varies worldwide)

I'd consider shop=charity and shop=second_hand to be more similar and therefore the same icon could be used for both.

[kocio-pl]

I agree with @lakedistrictOSM - the first icon is good, the second one looks less clear and maybe we could use it for shop=clothes+second_hand=yes/only, but for both shop=charity/second_hand the first one should be used.

[lakedistrictOSM]

@Tomasz-W Could you also make a version with a square handle like variety_store, just for comparison?

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 11. Mar 2018, at 13:41, lakedistrictOSM ***@***.***> wrote: shop=second_hand don't necessarily sell clothes, four second_hand shops near me don't sell any clothes but mainly books, bric-a-brac and antiques. (This is in the UK, I imagine what a second_hand shop sells varies worldwide)

shop=second_hand is somehow the corresponding shop to department store, i.e. it sells more than one typology of goods, otherwise the wiki says you should use second_hand as a property

I'd consider shop=charity and shop=second_hand to be more similar ad therefore the same icon could be used for both.

“charity” is IMHO not a good category in general, as it remains unclear what they sell, it rather seems to refer to the operator type of the business.

[Tomasz-W]

(round handle)
(square handle)

Both versions in this link: https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/23392e6d302279f419dcad435eb7de02

[Hjart]

JOSM has an icon for charity shop:

It's at https://josm.openstreetmap.de/browser/josm/trunk/images/presets/shop/charity.svg

In my experience shop=charity represents a very distinct category of shops. I frequently visit several myself and in e.g. Denmark they are extremely common.
Charity shops are different from second hand shops in general in that they are run by charities, usually entirely staffed by volunteers and only sells whatever is donated to them by the public (if/when I grow tired from a shirt or a chair or a book/whatever, rather than throw it in the bin, I prefer to give it to one of these shops). Also if you have visited a few of these, you'll have a pretty good idea of the range of goods sold in all of them.

[kocio-pl]

Of course they are distinct (that's why we have different tags), but so is meadow, grass and grassland - yet we render them the same, because they are similar. Both shops usually sell used things and for depicting this fact the icon is relevant.

[Hjart]

I'm ok with using the same icon for both

My rant was in response to

@dieterdreist

“charity” is IMHO not a good category in general, as it remains unclear what they sell, it rather seems to refer to the operator type of the business.

Being quite familiar with both types of shops I disagree with this.

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 12. Mar 2018, at 16:11, Michael Andersen ***@***.***> wrote: Being quite familiar with both types of shops I disagree with this.

your text seems to confirm my statement though.

[Hjart]

@dieterdreist Does the part of my text saying

Also if you have visited a few of these, you'll have a pretty good idea of the range of goods sold in all of them.

confirm your statement?

To me shop=charity is quite a useful category, as it tells me quite accurately what to expect when stepping into one of them.

Consider shop=supermarket. You'll have to be familiar with 'supermarkets' to know what they are selling too, since the description doesn't directly indicate it (like i.e. shop=car does). They don't actually sell supermarkets. There's also quite a wide variety between individual supermarket chains (much more than between charity shops). Some will satisfy fairly basic everyday needs only, while larger ones sells i.e. clothes and furniture too. So, in order to know what to expect, you'll have to be familiar not only with the concept of 'supermarket', but also with individual chains.

[Tomasz-W]

What about this?:

• shop=charity
  (square handle)
  (round handle)
• shop=second_hand
  (square handle)
  (round handle)

[lakedistrictOSM]

@Tomasz-W Good idea 👍

[jragusa]

For consistency with shop=variety_storeand shop=travel_agency, I would suggest square handle

[Tomasz-W]

Gist links:

• shop=charity
  
  https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/72b04561b7aa48b03b790b7720d5fc1b
• shop=second_hand
  
  https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/8bf786c909e21ac23d7f39f857ae45bb

[jragusa]

shop=charity
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/80238885

shop=second_hand
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2872062455
Note the different shape with amenity=doctors

[Hjart]

Different shapes makes them easier to tell apart :-)

[meased]

For consistency with shop=variety_store and shop=travel_agency, I would suggest square handle

Don't forget about shop=department_store, which already has the round handles. More of a meta issue, but I think all "shopping bag" icons should follow the same theme (the same bag with different symbols on it) instead of having four bags that are all slightly different.

Personally, I like the look of the round handles.

[jragusa]

@meased Indeed, I missed this icon. I agree with you. We should have the same pattern for all of these icons

[Tomasz-W]

@jragusa Departament store icon on "square handle" template:

Gist link: https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/85550c86782cc47def1d61fd033ca75b