Community Council (CC) meeting held @ 15:00 UTC in grincoin#general channel on Keybase. Meeting lasted 108 min.
Notes are truncated, and conversations sorted based on topic and not always chronological. Quotes are edited for brevity and clarity, and not always exact.
- anynomous
- defistaker
- cekickafa
- dtavarez
- waynegeorge
- l33d4n
- vıkvıkyvz
- phyro
- GK @satoshocrat uncompleted duties is discussed, and a vote is held on whether or not the funds should be refunded or whether they should be compensated for the next four months.
- The vote is in favor of @satoshcrat refunding the funds for not completing the duties as a GK; for the final decision, @satochocrat will be contacted and a vote will be held within GrinCC.
- A tracking progress PR is to be open and followed regular basis by GK @cekickafa is accepted.
- Request for funding payment order is discussed and favored as 1- CC Approve payment. 2- GK send PR before the actual payment. 3- CC transfer payment.
- It is acceptable to update the Grin.mw and GrinCC websites with social links and other enhancements in response to community feedback.
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Last meeting notes here: https://github.com/grincc/agenda/tree/main/notes
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Current meeting agenda
1- Follow-up for the groundkeepers tasks.
2- Follow-up missing CC meeting notes for 2023.
3- Follow-up missing CC blog.
dtavarez : I don’t see why that PR can’t be merged. Information about the mining rewards can be added in a new PR. I’ll share the information with you @cekickafa later tonight. I think @satoshocrat could tackle the missing work, since he already committed to that.
anynomous : @dtavarez Are you there? I am holding a baby, so can't lead the meeting. Typing one hand is too slow.
dtavarez : yes, i am here. Is @l33d4n around?
l33d4n : yes, i am here. 👍 @satoshocrat available?
dtavarez : Ping @satoshocrat.
l33d4n :
dtavarez : I think @satoshocrat could tackle the missing work, since he already committed to that.
Nothing personal but these tasks were ignored immediately after the funding.
dtavarez : Looks like yes
l33d4n : none of the CC members who approved the funding followed up or asked about it.
anynomous : I did. He wrote some blogs, but none got published. I only red one.
l33d4n : I suggest asking for a refund and leaving it behind in a friendly way.
anynomous : In any case, i think he did not manage to commit up to the level of what he planned, so he should compensate in work 🦾 or refund IMO.
l33d4n : I want to remined you that this is not the first time that GK receives funding and does not perform the funded tasks.
anynomous : ? When did that happen before?
dtavarez : I suggest @satoshocrat to compensate imo is fine
anynomous : ? When did that happen before? I think it was jankiee.The one I remember
defistaker : jankie also did not fulfill his/her tasks in the last period
dtavarez : Do you have another example besides jankie?
anynomous : True, he should still put in the hours as he promised. Or refund
defistaker : I did not leave any task uncompleted, as a former GK ^^
💯anonymous, 👍 dtavarez,cekickafa,vıkvıkyvz,anonymous.
dtavarez : it was jankie. But another example besides jankie?
l33d4n :
dtavarez : it was jankie. But another example besides jankie?
2 isn't enough? I think the CC that approves the funding should know better than me
anynomous : In any case, @cekickafa is functioning fine as single Groundkeeper, so IMO, we should simply stick to 0-1 Groundkeepers for now.
👍l33d4n
cekickafa : i am functioning. I can complete missing tasks.No problem.
👍 anonymous,johndavies,ardocrat
l33d4n :
anynomous : In any case, @cekickafa is functioning fine as single Groundkeeper, so IMO, we should simply stick to 0-1 Groundkeepers for now.
Great. and I also want to precisely define his tasks, make it clear what the return is for the funding.
dtavarez :
l33d4n : 2 isn't enough? I think the CC that approves the funding should know better than me
One is enough but how can be avoided? And why is CC fault? I mean requests are public
👍 johndavies
cekickafa : i think GK tasks are clear, distributing tasks to many people is unproductive.
dtavarez : We left enough time for people to comment.
l33d4n :
dtavarez : But another example beside jankie
I am not sure how to find this information when there is no accessible records, no meetings notes or at the CC website.
dtavarez : In forum.
anynomous : should be in each funding request. It is in each funding request.
l33d4n :
dtavarez : One is enough but how can be avoided? And why is CC fault? I mean requests are public
I'm not saying it's your fault but if no one takes responsibility then I think whoever approves the funding is responsible, right? The CC as a group, to follow-up. it's been 3 months without notes and none of the CC members notice.
dtavarez : I’m optimistic, I’m sure @satoshocrat will compensate
cekickafa : Satoshocrat when did he last joined meeting?
dtavarez : No idea
l33d4n : I suggest asking for a refund,calling it a "misunderstanding" and leaving it behind in a friendly way.
👍 anonymous,defistaker,ardocrat, vıkvıkyvz
dtavarez :
l33d4n : I suggest asking for a refund,calling it a "misunderstanding" and leaving it behind in a friendly way.
I suggest to vote for this With a like Please Or the next one Compensate the work by @satoshocrat
l33d4n : I don't think it is possible to accept such a situation where funding is wasted when no one is responsible and not for the first time.
vıkvıkyvz : if job isnt done, refund is the way.
dtavarez : @anonymous refund or compensate ?
l33d4n : Especially when we have a GK @cekickafa who has proven himself capable of handling his tasks successfully.
l33d4n : I suggest asking for a refund,calling it a "misunderstanding" and leaving it behind in a friendly way.
So the vote for the refund request passed? I see 4 likes but not sure which of the voters are CC members.
dtavarez : Let’s open a forum post to follow up. Is that ok? @l33d4n
phyro : I think it's good we're talking about this here openly. I've been wondering what happened with his work too, but never got to ask publicly.
anynomous : Both are fine, just clarity in expectations. Either put in the work in the coming 3 months or refund. I prefer refund since it is most simple and clear..
cekickafa : i dont think it is good to ask it on forum post. idk. Not good for Grin.
phyro : (to be clear, nor did I ask in private)
anynomous : I agree, lets just ask him directly, if it is problem, we can always further discuss on the forum.. But it is a minor thing IMO, just ask.
👍 cekickafa,ardocrat
cekickafa : ask him directly, he compensate or not. Missing work i will complete.
l33d4n :
dtavarez : Let’s open a forum post to follow up. Is that ok? @l33d4n
I don't think it's worth wasting any more time on it. If the 3 votes is CC members I think its better let's end it and spend our energy on other things.
👍 cekickafa,ardocrat,anonymous
cekickafa : There is 4 topics more.
l33d4n : I brought this up a week ago. He had enough time to respond.
dtavarez :
cekickafa : ask him directly, he compensate or not. Missing work i will complete.
What else do we have? Did you read my comment about the PR?
cekickafa : i think vote has passed or not? i will notekeep it.Refund
dtavarez :
cekickafa : i think vote has passed or not? i will notekeep it.Refund
I’ll reply the forum.And move from there
l33d4n :
l33d4n : I suggest asking for a refund,calling it a "misunderstanding" and leaving it behind in a friendly way.
Can we make it clear first? the vote for the refund request passed? I see 3 likes but not sure which of the voters are CC members.
dtavarez : Refund or compensate
cekickafa :
l33d4n : Can we make it clear first? the vote for the refund request passed? I see 3 likes but not sure which of the voters are CC members.
Doesnt matter. Votes count here.
dtavarez : I’ll reply his FR and let the CC vote and collect feedback
l33d4n :
dtavarez : I’ll reply his FR and let the CC vote and collect feedback
This is my first meeting here so I'm not sure how it works. The vote you asked for didn't just happen now?
anynomous : Thumbs up here count as a vote. We do need more votes from council members though. But I think they will agree.
cekickafa : Ok. Next topic ?
l33d4n :
anynomous : Thumbs up here count as a vote. We do need more votes from council members though. But I think they will agree.
@cekickafa Can you add it to your follow-up list? for the next meeting?
cekickafa : oK.Noted.
dtavarez : @cekickafa did you notice my comment about your PR?
cekickafa : yes, about finance PR.
dtavarez : Yes. The CC will review it.
cekickafa : Other topics about grincc.mw and grin.mw site broken links.
l33d4n : We skipped the first item on the agenda list. I would like to suggest adding to the GK tasks follow-up for every funded task. Once the CC approves funding, it will be the GK responsibility to follow up and update (on a monthly basis?) what the status is.
dtavarez :
l33d4n : Once the CC approves funding, it will be the GK responsibility to follow up and update (on a monthly basis?) what the status is.
I’ll a PR with that suggestion to add it to the repo officially.
l33d4n : This way we will avoid such situations in the future.
dtavarez : I support it
cekickafa : yes, i support also👍
anynomous : I am fine with it. Just a few bullet points will do, but it will avoid that nothing happens without no one knowing about it.
dtavarez : Or @cekickafa will you add it to the documents?
cekickafa : yes i can.
👍 anonymous, dtavarez
dtavarez : Thank you. That was easy. Something else?
l33d4n : The point is that in each agenda there will be a follow up to the issues discussed in the previous meeting. For example, in the next meeting we will be able to check that the issues we talked about today were really carried out and if they need to be addressed again
👍 dtavarez
cekickafa : yes, for a while we done it but interrupted. I think i better handle it.
anynomous : We do have TO DO's. I often tag it with "TO DO"
l33d4n : exactly. you nailed it. Just to make it clear, @cekickafa can you be responsible for this list?
👍 cekickafa
cekickafa : i am responsible.OK, it is clear.
l33d4n : great! thank you.
The next issue is the Grin.MW website. Over the years I talked with many users that the information on the website is outdated. The community page for example, most of the links there are broken. What can be done with it? I know it is the responsibility of the OC but their manpower is limited and @phyro is here so maybe we can talk about the issue together?
phyro : I'm perhaps the least familiar with the website, I barely know what the content on it is since I focused on everything else in Grin than this :) But I believe you when you say there's outdated content should we have a forum post about updating the content? or did you mean to open the PRs?
l33d4n : I remember you resisted adding links to the Discord and Telegram. The point is that new users can't get support and most of them don't use keybase.
phyro : should we have a forum post about updating the content? or did you mean to open the PRs?
I can make the PR but I would like to know if you agree to these changes, adding the Discord and the Telegram links.
phyro : hmm, I'd prefer if this wasn't a "me" thing. I honestly can't recall the reasons I had back then not to add (though, admittedly, I'm still no fan of the telegram room). Generally, if people agree, let's add them. I also kind of thought that the CC website will have all the community links
cekickafa : There is telegram missing at CC website also.
defistaker : I know, telegram is quite active so it should be added imo.
phyro : https://grincc.mw/hub#:~:text=Grin%20Telegram%20community
cekickafa : No i meant, main site.Footer.
l33d4n :
phyro : hmm, I'd prefer if this wasn't a "me" thing. I honestly can't recall the reasons I had back then not to add (though, admittedly, I'm still no fan of the telegram room). Generally, if people agree, let's add them. I also kind of thought that the CC website will have all the community links
Sorry but who is "people agree"? i'm not sure who is the other OC members or who can approve PR so I'm bringing this issue to you, if you say it's fine with you I will make the PR.
phyro : I don't know how things were added there in the past which is why I can't promise it will be added. I can ask others on OC too I wonder if it'd be a better idea to link to grincc hub page because it captures both and more
l33d4n : well It makes it a bit difficult to fix broken things (this page has been broken for over 2 years) when no one knows who is responsible or approve fixed. I am willing to work on it but I need to know who can approve it
phyro : yeah, that's understandable. Neither am I too familiar with this part. Given that nobody from OC is around I'll ask around and get back to you, sounds good?
l33d4n : Great! thank you. @cekickafa please add to the follow-up list.
👍 phyro
cekickafa : Ok.added.
phyro : sorry about the situation, it will improve when there's more manpower 😬
l33d4n : I know and I am willing to work on the official website voluntarily.
Next topic:
1- CC Approve payment. 2- GK send PR before the actual payment. 3- CC transfer payment. The point is to keep the financial records up-to-date, so that we don't end up having to update months or years back. I talked about it with @dtavarez and he supports it.
👍 dtavarez,cekickafa, johndavies
cekickafa : So there will be no need to review it again basically? Thats fine to me.
defistaker : Good idea, updating record/logs will be a requirement for payment.
l33d4n : exactly. This suggestion makes it much simpler and transparent for everyone. The OC have to vote about it or it's the GK responsibility?
cekickafa : this is not my resposnsibility to approve and send funds but financial PR tracking is Ok.
l33d4n : I mean it is the GK responsibility to send a PR as soon as funding is approved and to inform the OC to make the payment
cekickafa : yes, it seems mine. i mean i already done payment tracking but after the funds sent.
l33d4n : Yes and it proved not to work that well
cekickafa : Financial PR is my task.
l33d4n : Great. I think the last topic can be moved to the next meeting. Is that okay with you guys?
👍 defistaker
cekickafa : yes, next topic. Grincc.mw site
defistaker : I am the only one updating the site so it is kind of convenient for me to keep it in my github account.
cekickafa : But better add telegram icon to footer imo.
defistaker : But I can transfer the ownership of site to grincc.mw to github.com/grincc anytime. or they can fork it, it is public (and MIT licensed, I think...)
cekickafa : But better add telegram icon to footer imo.
noted.
vıkvıkyvz : grincc.mw grinmw not same Grin goal ?
l33d4n :
defistaker : But I can transfer the ownership of site to grincc.mw to github.com/grincc anytime.
Sorry I didn't even know it was you 😅 just worry because sometimes it's hard to keep track of where things are. Good to know you're still here.
defistaker : grin.mw is managed by OC, grincc.mw is managed by Community (Council) no worries ^^
vıkvıkyvz : OC is more powerful ?
l33d4n : One last thing, @cekickafa can you make a list of all your new tasks and meeting notes for this meeting?
cekickafa : yes, i am keeping notes.
l33d4n : Thank you ladies and gentlemen. It was a very productive pleasure.
defistaker :
vıkvıkyvz : OC is more powerful ?
They have management rights of main github grin repo, so I guess yes, they are more powerful :)
cekickafa : Thank you all.
defistaker : @vikvikyvz, on https://grincc.mw/ landing page, there is a short summary describing how Grin CC formed with links.
👍vıkvıkyvz
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Contact @Satoshcrat about GK tasks and Vote within GRINCC for refund.
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Feedback from community via forum about adding/fixing social links to grin.mw site. @phyro
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PR/ for checking funded requests monthly basis. @cekickafa
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GrinCC.MW site adding telegram Link. @stakervali
Meeting adjourned.