Marker line resets only if last unseen message readed.

[ghospich]

This is pretty annoying. You need scroll back all the way to last unseen message to reset marker line. But some users only want to see latest messages, and not read all scrollback! Pressing EVERYTIME Ctrl+M is inconvenient.
So, having option like "Reset marker line without scrolling to the last unseen message" would be nice (name could be better, yep).

[Arnavion]

The point of the marker line is to start reading from where you left off. If you don't want to do that then turn off the marker line.

[ghospich]

Well, marker line helps you to see where are new and old messages. If you don't see marker line, then there is more then one screen with new messages.
If i don't see marker line, i don't want to scroll all the way back to top to reset it. Maybe i'll read one screen, maybe two, but not the whole scrollback. And i should press Ctrl+M every time i don't see marker line? This is not very convenient. There is no reason not to do this automatically.

Also, take in account that currently marker line just feels broken. This is not anyhow obvious how it works. You understand that marker line resets solely by scroll wheel? WTF, why even scroll wheel bound to some functionality? Maybe there is some visual feedback when you scroll to last unseen message? Nope, none. Maybe there is visual hint that you should scroll to top? Nope, none.

You click on channel tab -> marker line resets. That what user expect.

It's very confusing to some users. There was at least one complaint on #hexchat that marker line "sometimes not showing up". Turns out that it works as should, and broken only by design. Submitter of complaint was soon introduced to Ctrl+M and Shift+Ctrl+M, and left perplexed.

So:

1. It's not obvious that you should scroll to the top.
2. Functionality bound to scroll wheel. Is that real life?
3. No visual feedback that you should read unread messages.
4. User expecting marker to reset on clicking on channel tab. Because there is visual feedback in that action (tab with channel appears, and also a marker in that tab).
5. I don't read whole scrollback on regular basis, so i don't want to press Ctrl+M every time.
6. I want to see that marker line, because it separates new messages with old one. It's lovely hint to help you where to start
7. It feels broken.

[asmith15]

I've got to say I agree with ghospich list of complaints. I'm a very tech savvy user but for the life of me can't figure out how the marker line works.

It cannot make it move no matter what I try (switch tabs, switch windows, switch desktops, scroll, etc).

If Ctrl+M (which I learned about in here) resets the marker line to the end - that's exactly what I want (except, honestly, put it on http://hexchat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ at least, what's with the magic shortcuts) but it really should show up at the bottom, so that I know that I read everything and not keep scrolling back only to find that I already reset it.

[TingPing]

@asmith15 Is this helpful: http://hexchat.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tips.html#how-the-marker-line-works

[asmith15]

Ah, sorry I missed that in the docs. But I still don't understand how it's supposed to work. Take specifically this statement:

"This line by design only automatically resets when it is seen."
It resets as soon as it is seen? No it doesn't, and if it did - there wouldn't be any point in having it :) Or when else is "when it is seen"?

Perhaps that's the source of all the confusion? I feel that if I knew when it's reset I wouldn't feel like it's a bug.

[TingPing]

Ah, sorry I missed that in the docs.

I just wrote it :P

It resets as soon as it is seen? No it doesn't,

It does.

See the line "Once a marker line is “reset” it does not instantly get created at the bottom it will only be created if it matches the conditions mentioned above (not being visible)."

and if it did - there wouldn't be any point in having it

I don't follow. It's purpose is to track what you have read and its only knowledge of 'reading' is if its seen.

I feel that if I knew when it's reset I wouldn't feel like it's a bug.

Yes like I wrote, it is not obvious. Redrawing the line at the bottom does 'fix' that but I'll get complaints from a different set of users then...

[asmith15]

Well - think about it. The line is there to tell me which messages I didn't yet read. If the line dissapeared immediately when it's seen then it could not possibly fulfill that purpose, because I wouldn't see it (it dissapeared).

But perhaps on Linux there is a separate bug, which is what makes this conversation particularly difficult. You're saying "it does". If you tell me exactly what steps to follow I will - and I think we will find that it doesn't, at least on linux in 2.9.6

"but I'll get complaints from a different set of users then..."

They like to be confused? :)

If the only way to move the bar to the end were Ctrl+M and it said so in the preferences UI - I think that would be the least confusing and at the same time the most useful behaviour.

[TingPing]

@asmith15 I already said it's not immediate...

As for instructions I think what I wrote is quite clear.

[ghospich]

Yeah, separate option for obvious and simple marker line behavior in preferences would be awesome.
Why it even should be so complicated and confusing to new users, if it can be obvious? The reason can be only habitats of old users. So for them there should be old behavior, and option for normal behavior for normal users.

[RichardHitt]

Since the marker line code is mine, I've taken some time to write up a tutorial and here it is:

How to use the Marker line

A 'marker line' is a line indicating where you stopped reading in a
hexchat text window. It's a red line that appears between the last
line you saw and the first new line in the window. When you are away
from the text window and another line comes in, hexchat remembers
this position.

If you don't see the red line but you know there's text you haven't
read and want to see it, use this shortcut:
Control-Shift-M
to instantly scroll to where the marker line is. Use Control-End to
instantly scroll back to the bottom.

When you have seen the marker line, hexchat remembers that you have,
but it does not clear the line, because you may wish to move back and
forth within the text and come back to the line. If you want to clear
the marker line (whether or not you've seen it), use this shortcut:
Control-M

Hexchat only changes the marker position when a new line comes in while
you're away. Even then, if you haven't seen or cleared the marker line,
hexchat will not change its position; there are still unread lines you
may want to go back to.

Certain things may automatically reset the marker line. The /CLEAR
command and the scrollback limit both may delete a line, for instance.
If you use the Control-Shift-M shortcut but the screen doesn't scroll
to the marker position, look for a reason message added to the bottom
of the text window, one of these:
Marker line disabled
Marker line never set
Marker line reset manually
Marker line reset because exceeded scrollback limit
Marker line reset by CLEAR command

What does "while you're away" mean in the above explanations? When you
are viewing a text window, with your keyboard and your mouse focused in
that window, you are "present" there; otherwise, you're "away".

[asmith15]

That's the most accurate description I've heard to date :)