enhance k9 mail identity selection

[SR-gh]

Identity selection could enhanced to make life a lot easier.
Today, it is really painful as it is in most client email readers.

Identity selection should be :
-free to edit and modify when writing a message (more or less as the recipient field currently is)
-automatically set with the best value guessed from the recipient values, when replying.
This would be a great feature to differentiate K9 mail from other rigid email clients.

Why?

I use the catch-all of my domain to handle a lot of different addresses.
Catch-all is really a great feature as it allows me to give anyone a unique email address in order to send me an email.
Consequently, I can, if I receive spam on this address, deduce that this correspondant may have abused my personal information.
I also use it to differentiate between groups of interest, without having to mess with a lot of mailboxes or aliases on the server side, as it is a painful task that can never be done correctly and is completely useless.

The only problem I see is to correctly select the account to associate with the email to be sent.
It could be deduced from the receiving account, when replying. Just use the same.
When not replying, either you are in an account view, and it is this account, or you are in the unified view, and this where creativity lies. Simplest solution would be to use the default account, but in my case, it is not the catch-all, so it's not that simple. I would make it this way : if the identity is the one associated with an account, use that account. If the identity is not the one associated with one account, use the 'default unassociated identity account', which is, in my case, the catch-all. In the end, the list-based feature can be used to force any configured account to be used.

This way, current behaviour does not change, but is extended and a lot more flexible than a fixed list-based feature.
Just imagine such a list-based feature for the recipient field in order to see what I mean.

[johey]

I am also very interested in this feature. Been using k9 on a daily basis for six years and this is the only feature I'm missing.

For Thunderbird, there is a very well working plugin called Virtual Identity. Perhaps one can find some inspiration from that?

[tyllmoritz]

I wrote a post in the forum.
Please share your thoughts.

https://forum.k9mail.app/t/suggestion-placeholder-in-sender-use-one-identity-for-many-aliases/283

[dotancohen]

tyllmoritz's forum post describes the use of an unquoted space character, which is illegal in an email address, to be used as a placeholder in the configured From email address. I happen to think that this is a great idea.

For instance, all my outgoing mail will be <something>@dotancohen.com. So if @dotancohen.com were configured as a default template for the outgoing From address, then not only would I save time for each mail, I would avoid typos.

[cketti]

Tying functionality to a space in an email address very much falls into the "confusing UI" category. I don't like that idea.

[tyllmoritz]

Tying functionality to a space in an email address very much falls into the "confusing UI" category. I don't like that idea.

You're right, it would be confusing.

A slightly-less-confusing UI could look like this:
When editing an identity, you can enter an E-Mail address.
On the right side next to the input field for the email-address there could be three "setting-dots".
On click on these "setting-dots, two settings are available:

• "arbitrary sender address"
• "arbitrary sender address (partially)"

the first option disables the E-Mail address input field and allows to freely edit the from-field when composing an email.
the second option inserts <placeholder>into the input field, which is internally represented as an ascii control character, for example the space character or the substitute character.

As the second option is much more work, I'd be more than happy to just have the first option.

[dotancohen]

Tying functionality to a space in an email address very much falls into the "confusing UI" category. I don't like that idea.

Though I agree with you in general, in this case it doesn't actually have to be confusing.

The space is not a legal character in an email address, so it should fail validation when trying to send an email. So far so good.

Now, just do not forbid the space character in the verification for setting the default email address. If the user enters a valid email address in the default address field, he will be able to send emails without editing the FROM field. If the user enters a space, then when he tries to send an email he is prevented from doing so by the failed validation, reminding him to update his FROM address.

This would be a power user feature and completely transparent to those who do not need it.

[tgkudelski]

Absolutely agree that having custom "From" addresses would be super helpful (I am doing this myself with Thunderbird, in part through aliases and in part with partially-catch-all addresses configured on my mail server). I dare to add that nowadays it is a very basic feature that makes email life "tolerable" without having a super-duper AI Borg spam filter. I find the lack of this feature a big, big problem for k-9 on Android.

I'm not sure that the best way is to tie a particular k-9 identity to have custom catch-all addresses. I think it would be much simpler to do it as Thunderbird does, with virtual identities and allowing by default an editable "From" field (but of course prefilled with the default value of that identity).

However, at this point anything that allows to do that is better than nothing. K-9 is close to useless for me on Android, I can basically use it to only read emails but I need to use Thunderbird to reply back, very annoying.

The suggestion of also filling the "From" field according to rules depending on the receiver address would also be a wet dream, I could live without but would be very nice.

One thing that must be clear however is that the solution to create a different k-9 identity for every "From" address/alias is not useful. We are talking of managing 100-1000 different email address, very often not pre-configured but created on the fly at the whim of the sender.

Example: let's say that I have my POP on mydomain.com and my "real" email address is myuser@mydomain.com . Now, I want to create a rule for registering accounts on different online shops, and my mail server allows me to create aliases with wildcards. Then I create an alias of myuser@ which is eshop*@ . At this point, when I register a new account on stinkyfood.com I can register as eshopstinkyfood@mydomain.com while if I want to shop on verylongsocks.com I can use on the fly eshopverylongs@mydomain.com etc, all this without touching again the configuration of my mailserver.

As other users mentioned, this has various advantages: check if there is a misuse or leak of your data and where the abuse comes from, easily severing ties with a compromised account, archiving purposes etc.

[SpareSimian]

Does K-9 have any notion of folder properties and properties inherited from parent folders? Mulberry has this, and a folder has a property of identity to use in replies (defaulting to the account's default identity). Moreover, identities are in their own inheritance hierarchy and so able to selectively inherit properties (like which SMTP server to use when sending). Bonus points for automatically constructing an identity from a plussed Recipient address, as I often use plussed addresses for website login names, which then get auto-delivered to different folders on my server via procmail.

[flcu]

I'm managing my email exactly like #935 (comment) is doing. I've read through this issue and a few of the referenced ones - my conclusion so far is, that setting a custom sender/mail from (generally) or based on the recipient of a certain email, is at the moment not possible in k9-mail?

Has there been any work done based on cketti's comment? #935 (comment)

Thank you for a quick update on this... (Reading the comments at least brought me an alternative email client "fairemail" on android that should support this...

[StijnJLL]

Dear sir, I use 1 account with 1 mailbox in k9 app. But I have created lots of different identities in this account with according mailaddresses. All these addresses are forwarding to the same single mailbox.(these addresses are created in the account at my Internet and service provider) Just like this identity ***@***.*** So mails send to those different mailaddresses all arrive in 1 mailbox, 1 account. The recipient of your mail had the same mailaddress ***@***.*** . I click on reply, and automatically k9 takes ***@***.*** as sender. So for every new identity you have to create a forwarding mailaddress at your service provider account. And also a new identity in K9 with that new mailaddress. To make this easy, you need to have your own domain. Like i do : mypost.be Greetings

[StijnJLL]

Every identity should have a different email address !!! It should be identical to the one you received an email to. If the mailadres of one identity is identical to the one used in 'To' . Then k-9 will use that as 'From' when you click on 'reply'. The name of the identity is unimportant. The mailadres is used, not the name. You can test this by sending mails to your own identities. Kind regards, Stijn

[Dash]

It's worth looking at the considerations made by Mozilla when implementing such a feature in Thunderbird. You cannot just rely on the "To" field, as this is just text and not actually related to the delivery of email. If you're subscribed to a mailing list, or blind copied into a mail, these will usually be wrong or missing.

Instead you have to rely on some non-standardised headers to try and work out who the envelope was originally sent to. If you're using things like fetchmail, this might be different than having mail delivered directly to the mailbox.

Envelope-To:
Delivered-To:
To:
X-Original-To:

All these might have the actual "to" address, they might conflict, they may or may not exist, there may be more. Sometimes it can be worked out by checking the "Received" header for who the mail was sent for.

That said, whoever picks this up, I'd probably look at that 80/20 situation and get a basic implementation relying on the above headers in order of precedence or something.

[thrdroom]

What is the status of this feature/enhancement? Is this currently being worked on? If not, can this feature please get more attention. Thunderbird and also roundcube already support this. When can we expect for this feature to arrive in k9?

I know its not as easy as that, but in simple terms Cant we "just copy" the exact way thunderbird is handling this?
It works pretty well in thunderbird and also in roundcube, and its always k9 that causes some issues for me when i need to write email from my mobile because of the missing feature Use "to" address as "from" address when replying.

Please give this feature more attention, it`s been requested since 2015.

[StijnJLL]

It works for me since 2 years. I 've lots of different identities. The 'to' should be identical to the mailadresses of the particular identity and it will become 'from' when you click on 'reply'. I think you made some mistake in your different identities. Kind regards -------- Verstuurd vanaf mijn Smartphone. Excuseer mijn beknoptheid. thrdroom ***@***.***> schreef op 22 juni 2023 02:43:15 CEST:

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What is the status of this feature/enhancement? Is this currently being worked on? If not, can this feature please get more attention. Thunderbird and also roundcube already support this. When can we expect for this feature to arrive in k9? I know its not as easy as that, but in simple terms Cant we "just copy" the exact way thunderbird is handling this? It works pretty well in thunderbird and also in roundcube, and its always k9 that causes some issues for me when i need to write email from my mobile because of the missing feature **Use "to" address as "from" address when replying**. Please give this feature more attention, it`s been requested since 2015. -- Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #935 (comment) You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Message ID: ***@***.***>

[flcu]

@thrdroom I've switched to FairEmail a few years ago, which supports the custom/dynamic From: addresses like TB on PC does.

@StijnJLL this is not about pre-setting-up identities but about dynamic (based on which address the mail has been sent to) setting of the sender address. The people (or at least me) that want this, have the ability to receive emails on a catch-all address and use this to generate arbitrary e-mail-adresses on the spot. Setting up an identity everytime totally defeats the convenience of this.

[tgkudelski]

@StijnJLL this is not about pre-setting-up identities but about dynamic (based on which address the mail has been sent to) setting of the sender address. The people (or at least me) that want this, have the ability to receive emails on a catch-all address and use this to generate arbitrary e-mail-adresses on the spot. Setting up an identity everytime totally defeats the convenience of this.

Agreed, and I really find it puzzling that after so long there is still misunderstanding on what we are asking. I assume people who misinterpret the request have never used Thunderbird or Roundcube, but maybe it is us who are not explaining it well? Let me retry:

I would like to be able to manually edit the "from" field every time I send an email. As in: tap on the "from field", text box pops up, use keyboard to write "totallynewaddress@neverusedbeforedomain.whatever".

Please forget about the "automatic rules to select a reply address according to the received email", I think at this point it's just a distraction, just give us the possibility to manually edit the "from" field every time we send an email, thanks!

[flcu]

I would like to be able to manually edit the "from" field every time I send an email. As in: tap on the "from field", text box pops up, use keyboard to write "totallynewaddress@neverusedbeforedomain.whatever".

I'd say this would be the absolute minimum solution to fulfill this requirement. But

Please forget about the "automatic rules to select a reply address according to the received email", I think at this point it's just a distraction, just give us the possibility to manually edit the "from" field every time we send an email, thanks!

as this is being offered by roundcube, thunderbird an fairemail (these implementations prove it's possible and not hard) it won't make me switch back to k9 mail - as manually modifying every email is waaay more unconvenient than having an automatic selection thats 95% correct.

Agreed, and I really find it puzzling that after so long there is still misunderstanding on what we are asking. I assume people who misinterpret the request have never used Thunderbird or Roundcube, but maybe it is us who are not explaining it well?

I guess, this is the real problem: the use case we're looking for hasn't been properly understood by anyone with the knowledge on how to implement it ....

[thrdroom]

@flcu thanks for the recommendation of FairEmail. The problem for me is that FairEmail has other limitations like no Oauth in fdroid version and the develeoper locks down a lot of features behind a "pro"-version. While K9 is only missing this one feature "dynamic (based on which address the mail has been sent to) setting of the sender address". I really really don't want to leave K9, but if this doesn't get implemented soon, im forced to leave, cause editing identities by hand before answering every email and/or creating hundreds of identities is an absolute no-go. Atm people get private email alias names from me which they should never know of in the first place!!!

@cketti I want to suggest a first quick solution to this problem which should be "preatty easy to implement" (excuse my ignorance) and which can be build upon later on.

Give us the option to use a wildcard identity.

When i use an asterisk in the first part of the email of the email field in the identity (*@domain.tld), then every time i hit reply in an email, k9 does use the X-Original-To: field from the header of that email.

This way the people who need dynamic identities based upon the X-Original-To: field could get that easily by just putting an asterisk in the first part of the email of the email field in the identity (*@domain.tld).

Is this suggestion above easy enough to be implemented quickly?

Alternative to *@domain.tld could also be just an asterisk withtout any @domain.tld part.

[tgkudelski]

Yes, I agree FairEmail has other limitations. At this point, whatever works better, really. Please :)

[knox]

it's great to see this issue come back to some life.

Please forget about the "automatic rules to select a reply address according to the received email"

i've just double check this and it works.

and i agree that

it's just a distraction

becaus what's desperatly missing is

the possibility to manually edit the "from" field every time we send an email