MU-MIMO for 88W8964.

[yuhhaurlin]

Create this issue to track this feature.

[adamcarter1]

Excited for this!

[ad019]

@yuhhaurlin before Christmas this year?

[yuhhaurlin]

Company will shutdown one week after Christmas. There is only one week before Christmas. I don't think it can be done within one week.

[s-pimenta]

Take your time... We have enough of instability...

[s-pimenta]

160MHz will also be available?

[yuhhaurlin]

160 MHz working now.

[s-pimenta]

Nice... I will buy the new Intel Wireless-AC 9260 https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/wireless-products/dual-band-wireless-ac-9260-brief.html to test 160Mhz

[p3x-robot]

Yes 160 Mhz have been working for a few months for me. Just MU-MIMO is not enabled and as I know needs code done.
Look:

[p3x-robot]

[p3x-robot]

I use the kmod from here, the latest Kaloz always LEDE latest stable now 17.01.4:
https://github.com/eduperez/mwlwifi_LEDE/

My CDN:
https://cdn.corifeus.com/lede/17.01.4/targets/mvebu/generic/packages/

https://cdn.corifeus.com/lede/17.01.4/targets/mvebu/generic/packages/kmod-mwlwifi_4.4.92%2B10.3.4.0.git-2017-12-13-1_arm_cortex-a9_vfpv3.ipk

[aaron1959]

@p3x-robot all your connections are @ 80 Mhz.
Do you actually have any functioning at 160 Mhz Rates?
Your post does not show this.
I ask because I can connect a samsung S7 to the router set to 160 Mhz but the connection is only 866 M/bs at 80 Mhz.
Just because it is set to 160 Mhz doesn't mean it is connecting at that rate in your case it's dropping to the speed of your clients which is VHT 80 866 M/bs max.
None of your examples show any VHT 160 connections.
I do know that some people are using VHT 160 successfully between routers and they have posted examples of those VHT 160 connections.

[p3x-robot]

That's how it works right now. Once MU-MIMO is done, it will work. I guess 160Mhz only work with MU-MIMO. I set to 160Mhz, but the Kaloz is not done. But the rates of latest commits are very fast and stable, never instable. Besides it works with the Radar as well. Once the working latest commit is implemented with MU-MIMO, it will work with 160 Mhz. That's all could do. :)

[aaron1959]

VHT 160 has absolutely NOTHING to do with MU-MIMO!

[p3x-robot]

I think my 2 Androids don't understand 160Mhz, I guess, either my wifi workstation, they are max 80Mhz.
But MU-MIMO will work later. The settings are correct.

[aaron1959]

VHT 160 works right now But ONLY between devices which are capable of VHT 160.
It seems that you are confusing a couple of things which have no relation to each other.

[p3x-robot]

Ok, so I understand that mu mimo beamforming has nothing to do with frequencies. Thanks.

[aaron1959]

The Androids are ONLY VHT 80 capable, don't you understand this?
You will NEVER connect to them with VHT 160!!!!

[p3x-robot]

Yes, that's why said. My Android, neither my wifi are max 80 Mhz, too new. :)

[aaron1959]

BY that I mean your particular Android devices,
In the near future yes the next gen devices MAY have VHT 160 but not NOW.

[p3x-robot]

But MU-MIMO will work out of box once Kaloz is done and Radar is good and the 3200ACM 160Mhz is working as well.
On 1900ACS it has only max 80Mhz. I think that doesn't have MU-MIMO neither.
Only 3200ACM has 160Mhz. That's the future. :)

[p3x-robot]

yes, exactly.

[p3x-robot]

Waiting it for so much ! :)

[GillyMoMo]

An example of the VHT 160. It would more or less like this.

[thagabe]

@GillyMoMo What device is that?

@p3x-robot Pls, stapppp you are mixing up things left and right.

[p3x-robot]

@thagabe sorry, this is a discussion, it's like the force awakens... :) Happy new year dude.

[p3x-robot]

@GillyMoMo right, your wifi device can use 160 mhz, mines can't :) but though when MU-MIMO is done, that will be awesome.

[p3x-robot]

I only got 1200AC WIFI device on my workstation, at least 2 x 866 Mbit :)

[aaron1959]

@thagabe I'm hoping it can be attributed to a language issue, otherwise someone is prone to random spurious emissions.
Nothing to be learned by that. :-(

[thagabe]

@aaron1959 I do believe it has to do with language issues. However, the fact that he said he had 160 MHz and showed a bunch of screen shots that showed he didn't + now showing that he has a 1200AC which DOES NOT have 160 MHz makes me believe he doesnt know what he is talking about lol

[aaron1959]

Roger that.

[ad019]

Could be that Foxconn acquisition of Belkin has led to change of priorities between Marvell and Belkin.

[adamcarter1]

True.

[yuhhaurlin]

Sorry. I am busy on other jobs recently. I come back to work on this feature now.

[davidc502]

Good to see you back yuhhaurlin.

Thanks for your hard work.

[PalebloodSky]

@yuhhaurlin thank you for all your work on this driver.

Overall though I can't help but think there should be a class action lawsuit against Linksys for advertising "open source" and "MU-MIMO" but not actually providing this feature on the WRT3200ACM. Radio power output at max is bad too. There should be to reduce it to 25/50/75/100%. Its power output is way too high right now as set statically.

[p3x-robot]

this is true, AX is coming soon, and MI-MIMO will be never happen, i can sense this.
both the actual specs and the actual implementation - not happening at all.

we stuck with this, but i guess if i had a 160MHZ client, i could use 2600Gb as i understand, but anyway, i can sense this kaloz mwlwifi will not happen at all, like years will go on as:

• this is gonna happen
• 6 months later - this is gonna happen
• 1 year later - this is gonna happen
• this sucks ....
• 2 years later => AX .... new router...

i guess this is belkin or the latest owner whatever the name of the company.... you name it... this is not linksys (cisco small child => linksys), no no no, this is something asian company now... not USA design...

👎 🔢 👎

[BrainSlayer]

mmh its not about belkin. its about marvell, the chipset vendor. linksys/belkin does not develop the drivers. marvell has a mi-mimo supporting driver which is propertiery. personally i dont understand why its usefull to maintain 2 drivers. one is propertiery and one is opensource but less featured due the small human resources offered for it. but consider that its the same for qca with ath10k. the chipsets are mu-mimo capable, but ath10k does not support it, but the propertiery driver does. but at least its easier to get access to qca's internal driver sources with some efforts. and for sure we dont need to talk about broadcom. this all makes no sense for me. it makes no sense for marvells business and it makes no sense for the driver quality which is the only thing visible to end users

[p3x-robot]

i guess, it looks like mu-mimo is not wirespread at all. plus they provide to work with like AC. imagine openwrt has so many packages, you can do anything you want, companies want to pay for sure (including marvell god damn...)

that is what it is about 1000000%

[BrainSlayer]

it is widespread for all vendor provided firmwares, but the benefits arent directly visible for the end user. mu-mimo feature has also just measureable performance gain for multiple clients. thats nothing you will notice at home. for sure you're able to get the propertiery driver from marvell if you start a business discussion with them and if they see some benefit in it you get it. i got them for older chipsets and i did not have to pay any money for it. from my experience companies always try to protect intellectual properties which are included in these special drivers. but if i review the propertiery drivers of qca, marvell or broadcom or mediatek which are heavily complex and bringing own wireless stacks. i can't find any argument for it. thats why i say that this all makes no sense at all. all companies putting alot of effort in developing own wireless stacks which replace mac80211 and there seem to work alot of people on these drivers. if they would spend this power in using existing technology like mac80211 they would even reduce development time.

[p3x-robot]

• so basically, openwrt is using an mac80211 wifi interface for all routers (including mwlwifi).
• the marvell linksys wrt3200acm chipset on the original router firmware is not using mac80211 at all, but the marvell wifi developed, and it looks like mwlwifi is an interface to make it work with mac80211?
• so even, if i talk to them and i could sell a binary mac80211 interfaced driver and give the the royality, i would still have to learn both marvell and mac80211 and then create this interface, so something i do not have time to do it...

looks like not happening for me either, and why would marvell help create an open source mac80211 interface/driver, why?

besides linksys said it is open source ready, which is true, they never said it is mu-mimo open source ready ...

so the doors are as they are... open source open, mu-mimo closed ...

[p3x-robot]

@BrainSlayer so you looks like live in Germany? Right? So in germany, do you have laptop + desktop + tablet + phone, they have all MU-MIMO? Because it looks like very rarely as I sense. I guess we just want this, but very few people have MU-MIMO appliancies actually, rarely, or wrong?

What is weird, why people do not like this dual core ARM 1.8 Ghz CPU and 512MB DDR3 with USB3 on LEDE, supports even MariaDB 10 including NodeJs 10 and all GCC, latest Python, PHP, etc ... , I guess, it should have an nvme ssd by default, I would say WRT3200ACM is garbage, but is not! How can it be so bad??? I love it like hell!!!

https://www.techspot.com/news/66672-linksys-latest-wrt-router-combines-open-source-firmware.html

This cut:
While Linksys has certainly built an impressive router on paper, it’s worth noting that the WRT3200ACM will only as fast as the clients connected to it. As it stands now there are no Tri-band 160 laptops or phones currently on the market, and there are very few that support MU-MIMO technology, so you’re essentially getting bragging rights and hoping those technologies become widespread in the near future.

The Linksys AC3200 WRT Gigabit MU-MIMO Wi-Fi Router is available now via the Linksys web store and Amazon priced at a hefty $280.

[davidc502]

@p3x-robot

I look at it this way; the 3200acx is a bit future proof, which is great!

As for mu-mimo, I don't expect anyone to really notice a difference in home applications. Currently only 4 supported clients can take advantage anyway, so really this is low priority.

I'm just happy it is to the point where it can be implemented, so I can brag when it is done! :) cheers.

[p3x-robot]

@davidc502 yeah thanks, after research, i understand, we just want MU-MIMO, but really, if you can tune your router, you can be totally super fast. I have no clients to use it, none of our laptops or phones can't be that fast, only my latest Sony Android can access 500 Mbits speed, all older are about 300 Mbits max ... and it is even much faster then 4k streaming.

I use usually Linksys WRT3200ACM in our apartment with about 50-60 routers in the big house...

So please, praise Linksys WRT 3200ACM. This is the best!!! THE BEAST!!!!

LEDE 17.04.1 with latest mwlwifi is the BOMB!!!

[BrainSlayer]

1. yes, same for dd-wrt which i do
2. yes
3. royalty? no. you can use the propertiery as is for free, but you cannot republish it in source form and creating a mac80211 interface is something nearly impossible. i know the original driver
   consider that mwlwifi is created by marvell and also maintained. so the question why marvell should help is pointless. its just that marvell doesnt spend much resources in the opensource driver

and yes i'm in germany. i can just tell you that most of the 802.11ac wave2 supporting routers with factory firmwares (not openwrt or dd-wrt or whatever) do support mu-mimo with no exception. same for laptops and phones. they just need to have wave 2 chipsets. in all known wave 2 chipsets mu-mimo has been implemented. so if you have a recent macbook pro retina or recent iphone, yes. its supported. but i dont know all laptops on the market and nor do i know all the chipsets included. so these are just examples. at the time the wrt3200acm was released the situation was different. wave 2 chipsets where rare at this time. but that has been changed

@davidc502. praise? the wrt3200acm is not outstanding from its features right now. i love the netgear r9000 for instance. vht160 capable. su and mu mimo. 1 sfp+ 10gbit port. wan port, 8 port switch. quadcore 1.8 ghz cpu. 1 gig ram. 256 mb flash, sata, usb for sure. ah 60 ghz 802.11ad support as well. so the wrt3200acm is not bad, but its not the only good product on the market and the r9000 is just a sample for sure. the only bad thing. openwrt never made support for it. dd-wrt only has it. and ath10k has no mu-mimo support as well. so if someone wants mu-mimo. he only has the choice to use the vendor firmware. but i hope this will change anytime

[p3x-robot]

@BrainSlayer I think you were talking to me somewhat about 3200ACM... But your point is good! R9000 is the best of course! But it is more expensive as well, so I think they are about the same heavyweight, don't you think?

In Amazon it is about 400 EUR
https://www.amazon.de/Netgear-Nighthawk-R9000-100EUS-funktioniert-App-Managed/dp/B01M3Z2YA6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525377069&sr=8-1&keywords=r9000+netgear

Linksys 3200ACM is about 200 EUR
https://www.amazon.de/Linksys-WRT3200ACM-EU-Wireless-3200Mbit-Ethernet/dp/B01MA4SC83/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1525377106&sr=1-2&keywords=wrt3200acm

Though, some people don't understand the 3200ACM and I could buy on Ebay for like 90 EUR right now.
Though MU-MIMO is missing, that's true, that's only the bad point, but as you guys were saying, I cannot even use it, given, I have only 5 WIFI, but I use only 4, so it's cool.

I love the Netgear R900, the bombshell!!! 💯

[p3x-robot]

I think @davidc502 has a top notch build as well like me on LEDE...
Not to talk about you @BrainSlayer 🥇

[BrainSlayer]

@p3x-robot if the r9000 is too expensive. another example is the r7800. same as powerful as the wrt3200acm. but the same qca chipset as the r9000 and openwrt/lede support

[p3x-robot]

@BrainSlayer well, i have 4 routers in my apartment, enough already, but for the future, i know where to find you before i buy a new router fo show, top router people 🥇

This R7800 is awesome! I should've bought that instead. At least, it works out of the box.
I think, my next router will have at least 10Gps ports for hardwired.
My ISP already is giving 2000 Mbs, though that is 2 ports.

• What is your bandwidth in Germany where you are???

you know, I had a Linksys 54G back in around 2000 or 2001-2, i already had VPN...
It lasted about almost 8 years. TP-LINK crap, I thought Linksys was aweomse, but it was sold like Belkin whatever, it is not Cisco based. This Netgear looks like the beast top.
Sleep for me. Nice talking with you! CIAO!

[PalebloodSky]

So if I could briefly jump in what's the recommended router then? I've had R7000 (w/DD-WRT) forever, and messed around with the R7800 and WRT3200ACM. Both seem like the proper step up. But for want of features like 940Mbit WAN (future proofing), 80-100MB/s USB Storage to replace NAS, and of course OpenWrt and/or DD-WRT support. Seems like the ones I listed are ideal for the price, but don't necessarily have that from an open source standpoint, only factory firmware. Recommendation?

[p3x-robot]

Top : Netgear R7800 (250 USD max - 2 cores, 512 MB DDR3)
High end: Netgear R9000 (400-450 USD max - 4 cores, 1 GB RAM DDR3)

This is the best specs and support is 100% open source drivers.

Now to setup OpenWRT and DDWRT, that's another story.
Either you go into and find out how it works and make everything work perfectly or 99% or very close or you will be looking for the best router (when actually is right here - Netgear R7800 and R9000)

Tuning is hard, for me took 2-3 months, but now I have the Linksys 3200ACM, but I know it ins and outs by now. Love it. I know MU-MIMO is not implemented, but I cannot even use that speed.
500MB stable (had reboot the router once in 6 last month - but I think I stepped on in :/ )

[yuhhaurlin]

Sorry. This issue lost its tracking function.

[p3x-robot]

you can lock the thread and you can use a thread for yourself only, we just talked about routers... 👍 sorry!!!

[yuhhaurlin]

You can check this kind of thing in dd-wrt or OpenWrt forum.

[BrainSlayer]

in germany i just have a 50 mbit vdsl line, but i have access to fibre connections at another location and our company has fibre as well. we also have access to the DECIX with our servers. but typically a private user can't get more than 50 - 100 mbit in germany since we dont have regular fibre based isp's just cable with crappy quality (shared over too many users) and VDSL

[thagabe]

@yuhhaurlin any updates regarding mu-mimo? It was schedule to be completed by the beginning of this year and thus far the issue tracker has been silent. The 3200ACM is over a year now and this is a selling feature. progressive updates are nice, even if it's to say hello...

[yuhhaurlin]

It is under working. However, other jobs will interrupt this working sometimes, but this feature will be added finally.

[orenre]

Any updates regarding mu-mimo?
Hope to see more progress in this project!

[p3x-robot]

it will never be done.

[p3x-robot]

@orenre see: #296, #296 (comment)