User karma point system to encourage quality user created content

[arex1337]

We could introduce a point system similar to Reddit karma. The primary purpose of a karma system would be to to encourage user behavior we want more of. Users would start with 0 karma points and gain karma whenever they engage in good/useful/constructive behavior.

For the karma system to have the intended effect, users' karma scores must be public information and arguably displayed fairly prominently. (There's a future possibility here of awarding cosmetics to users for certain karma thresholds, but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.) A karma leaderboard could be cool. Perhaps we can detect mod candidates this way.

We may want to grant karma points for the following activities:

• Producing quality content (most valuable and important reason for the karma system)
  • e.g. someone liking a Study you made (+100 karma points)
  • e.g. someone accepting your answer in the Q&A section (+30 karma points)
  • e.g. someone liking a forum post you made (+1 karma points)
• Normal activities (playing games, solving tactics, progressing through /learn and /practice)
• Achievements (solving the 1000th puzzle, winning a tournament, completing /learn)

For the karma points to be seen as valuable, we must be very careful about what we give karma for, and how much. We must also realize the karma system will be abused.

• It should probably not be possible for a user to generate their own karma in any way (it would encourage spam) - if we wanted achievement points it should probably be separate from karma
• Karma should only be given when another user appreciates the behavior (e.g. liking a Study or forum post)

Multi-accounting will be the biggest abuse challenge.

Karma points could also be taken away as punishment. It's probably a very bad idea (unless we know the points were unfairly obtained), as we will end up with lots of 12 year olds crying about their missing and/or stolen karma. Instead, we could have an internal trust point system, that takes into account things like when the account was created, how much activity it has, moderator actions taken against the account, and also karma points. This is another issue altogether.

[nilslindemann]

I hate this permanent-karma thing. It leads to a situation where people do not do things because of altruist reasons but in order to get rewarded. It does not fit to the Lichess idea of a free chess community.

In the end it will lead to users getting granted special rights due to their karma points, like on Narcist Overflow or Whakipedia. It will be seen – or propagated – as a tool to solve problems which don't need solutions. That's how human control freaks are, including those reading this thread. You are already now suggesting using it as a punishment (and Niklas thinks this is a good prospect). And because this leads to Nazi land, states have no karma system, except for crimes, which is not permanent.

Regarding the current hearts for studies and up-/down votes in Forum posts, this is an innocent way of giving feedback, without consequences. This is good, because it inspires people to change, it doesn't force them. And the hearts in studies let them rise up when searching for them, which is also useful. But a permanent Karma system only bloats up the Ego of the people and makes them wanting to conform, without being aware of it. Avoid.

Gens Una Sumus

[nilslindemann]

Too Long, didn't read:

I like the image of Lichess being a place where a bunch of chess lovers meets, plays games, and shares interests.

I don't want any caste system on Lichess.

[schlawg]

Apparently some guy thought it would be a good idea to give anyone who wanders in the ability to give unsolicited input on an awesome project like lichess so I'ma take advantage of that.

It would be hard to tarnish the awesomeness that is lichess but adding a karma system could be a good start. There is rating and titles for chess prowess and that's fine - it means something... But seeking to express a human being's usefulness/value provided to the community as a number is kind of reductive, to the point of insult (in my opinion).

I won't try to undercut the insights or motives of anyone who wants this. I can definitely see the appeal to folks who have to moderate things around here. Don't get me wrong - encouraging conformity to some ideal of a good user is a commendable goal. But I worry that doing so with a semi-automated points system would just edge user interactions towards some hellish karma whoring shitshow. Let people focus on what is being said rather than who is saying it. No reason to try to quantize the value of social interactions (unless you're trying to monetize them).

On the other hand, this could just be the fever dreams of a man who preferred the internet before likes took over.