MuseScore
Short Album with Muse Sounds #17046
Replies: 7 comments 8 replies
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Sounds great! To be clear, GitHub is where development discussions are - here, and on Discord. But discussion of using MuseScore (e.g., support) remains on the forums. And discussions of music created with MuseScore really is more suited for musescore.com, although there is a "Made with MuseScore" forum on musescore.org as well. |
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Thanks Marc. What would this particular 'show and tell' thread be for then... development projects? I can blank out the post if it isn't the appropriate location for it. |
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To be honest, I have no idea. Probably just an experiment, "build it and see if they will come". I suspect maybe a motivation might have been, finding good examples to Muse Sounds being used in the real world to possibly highlight on social media or something. That's just guessing, though; I wasn't involved in setting this up. |
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I suppose that I will keep posting here then from time to time. One issue that I have always had with the .com site is that it is really centered on the product of Musescore being "notation". It's a place where notation creations are shared. It really isn't a 'music' sharing site, but rather it is a sheet music sharing platform. For me, I don't necessarily put out my work as notation (for others to perform or adapt). So while I have a .com account, and a generous body of work (some of it written on MuseScore), none of it is actually hosted on the site as notation. I don't know. I understand the point of the site and the purpose as a platform for sharing notation work from notation software. But for me, it's like a book club that primarily discusses fonts and typeset and then spends a little time discussing the story. I'm far more interested in showing off my use of the Muse Sounds than I am interested in posting sheet music. As an ASCAP member, I would prefer to self-publish and license the sheet music for performance on my own, particularly for larger ensemble work. And obviously, film score work doesn't really have a place on the .com, because what would be the point? I suppose the best place to post and discuss exclusively music creation would actually be in a forum that has nothing to do with MuseScore... but then the weight and community interest of the Muse Sounds wouldn't be much appreciated. It's almost as if the Muse Hub itself should have a social platform. |
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Hmm, are we talking about the same website? Which groups have you been following? In the 12+ years I've been on that site (user number 2975), I don't recall discussions on musescore.com ever being primarily about the notation. It's almost always about the music. MuseScore is of course notation software, so it stands to reason that's how music is created and shared there, and people there are interested in reading muse, and every once in a while you'll see a comment about something spelling a chord wrong or whatever. But over the course of I can't even begin to guess how many thousands of discussions I've seen there, I can't recall any that focused on fonts and typesetting at the expense of the music. Anyhow, musescore.com is absolutely the main place to share and discuss music created with MuseScore. Due to the very nature of the site, you'll obviously get tons more engagement there than here on a developer-focused platform like GitHub. Not sure why you're saying film score music wouldn't have a place on musescore.com - it definitely does, it's a very popular genre. Also, you can disable download of your scores on musescore.com if you're concerned about cannibalizing sales. You can certainly also upload audio only to other sites - including audio.com, the new site run by the Muse Group. There isn't a social feature there yet, but who knows what the future holds. |
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Yes, we are talking about the same site. The point of the site is to share notation. There's nothing wrong with that, as I said before (apart from an issue that I will address at the end). But I am not interested in sharing notation, particularly with the development of Muse Sounds. With the new library, there is now a vacuum for sharing rendered music specifically created with Muse Sounds, which is not the same as sharing notation. The response to this would be "well, why not just put the notation up and folks can play it back with Muse Sounds?" The issue there is that the sound library (like all sound libraries) are not best demonstrated exclusively from notation. As with midi sequencing, the humanization of the libraries requires input details that transcend the notation. My Muse Sounds mock-ups require quite a lot of unorthodox alterations to the notation in order to call upon the best samples for playback. This would not be available in a mere print of the unaltered sheet music. Additionally, as I said before, I'm not in the notation sharing game. If I license a work, I will print the music or send the file directly to the user. My interest is in the Muse Sounds library and the play engine. The .com site is not really a venue to showcase the nuanced and maximized capabilities of the new playback technology. I was unaware of audio.com from Muse Group. I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip. |
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For the record, when you upload your music from MuseScore to musescore.com, it includes your audio, including custom tweaks you made for the sake of playback. So if you're using Muse Sounds for the playback, it absolutely can be showcased on musescore.com, nuance and all. Even if you're also further processing the audio externally (eg, combining MuseScore-generated audio with sound effects etc), you can sync your score to an external audio source (currently only YouTube, but presumably audio.com would be coming soon as well). As for the distinction between concert suites and actual soundtrack, there is an audience for both, as you are no doubt aware. No reason the people interested in film music would be more likely to gravitate to a new untested site instead of just going to well-established site they also use for other types of music. And yes, it is unfortunate that there are some copyright violations on the site. That is be the case for any site that allows users to upload material. It's an enormous undertaking to get licenses from composers and publishers and to police u0loads to be sure that no music is uploaded that violates this. msuescore.com has more in place on both fronts - license agreements with tons of publishers & composers, and a process for checking and monitoring music. might not be perfect,t but there is almost no chance a new site started from scratch would be 1/10th as good at either of these. It's taken over a decade and a lot of time, effort, and money for musescore.com to develop these agreements and facilities. it would be a pretty daunting endeavor to try to recreate anything remotely like it. |
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It's not quite as you say here and earlier. Features to protect a score from download are only available to Pro account users. You can label the score as "all rights reserved", but you can't restrict download without passing through the pay-wall. Audio is not (as far as I can see) uploaded with the score. The site has it's own soundfont synth engine that plays the score back. As you said, one can create a YouTube render of the audio and sync it through the settings, but this audio can only be set as default with a Pro account. I also see that the playback itself does not appear to actually synchronize with the YouTube audio upon playback, which makes the controls to set sync points in the external audio dialogue pointless. Anyway, I posted the first movement of the suite mentioned in the original post, just to test out these features: I will probably refrain from posting more material to the .com any time soon and just keep to posting YouTube play-through videos SoundCloud, Audio.com and BandCamp.com listings in the sharing forums. As for our discussion about film music on the site, I think perhaps my point wasn't clear. Musescore certainly has a ton of film music theme treatments. But that is not film score. Score cues are the orchestration that is actually used in the film project files. There is no reason to post that stuff and there isn't really a presence of such thing on the .com platform. Again, any film music theme treatment that can be found on the site is illegal unless the person posting is licensed to arrange and distribute the music, or if they are the composer/owner of the music... and I don't see a lot of that going on. If I create a treatment of a theme (solo, 2 part, chamber ensemble... anything) from a video game, TV show, movie or published concert work that is not public domain, and I post it on the .com... I have violated copyright and various other legal restrictions related to publishing/distribution, unless I have secured a license to do so. 99.9% of the film music material on .com is in violation. Restricting download of these materials behind Pro controls or a subscription fee is not a fix to the problem. In fact, it is complicit participation and marketing off of the violation itself. I see the .com running into major legal troubles down the road. |
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Audio is absolutely uploaded with the score - assuming you upload directly from within MuseScore rather than trying to do it via a web browser. Only in the latter case does the site have to resort to the basic soundfont. Or, in older versions of MuseScore, if you choose not to upload the audio when publishing your score, but that option isn't even present in MuseScore 4. Publishing always uplaods audio. The fact that few current film composers are actually publishing their work on musescore.com doesn't mean there isn't interest - it just means that most haven't found seen a reason to. Not just film composers - same for professional composers in most other genres. Their loss, as far as I'm concerned. It may well be that restricting download is a Pro-only feature indeed; I have no real insights into the inner workings of that website. Seems reasonable, since the main purpose of that feature would be to allow professional composers/arrangers to charge others for their work, and thus it would seem these professional composers/arrangers might be willing to pay for the services they use as well. But anyhow, as I said, you can also sync to external audio, so you could always upload a "dummy" score and sync it to the audio from the real score. It does sync to the score if you use the facility to do that (it involves playing the audio and marking each measure in the score as you go). Still, if your goal is primarily to sell your music and not to share it, then indeed, musescore.com isn't really the right place. better to use on of the various commercial platforms offered y publishers such a JW Pepper or Hal Leonard, etc. Then people can hear the audio samples right on the same site they'd purchase from. The idea of a marketplace site to sell compositions and arrangements directly through musescore.com has of course come up before. Seems like a sound idea, but no doubt, a whole other discussion really. |
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Looks like MuseScore creates a .mp3 directly from the file, which means that you still can't substitute a nuanced version of the audio without linking to YouTube (which doesn't sync in playback). Anyway, here is a replacement for the previous upload, now with the M4 generated audio (which isn't exactly how I would want it, but it's the best that the platform can do right now): I'm not sure why the proverbial goal-posts keep moving on this film score discussion. We are now at "there just isn't interest"... which was exactly my point. There's no reason to use MuseScore for this type of music. It makes no sense to share media project cues in this way. People that do most of their writing in film projects just wouldn't (and apparently don't) find a logical purpose in loading their project files to Musescore. It seems to me that the major goal of Musescore.com is to showcase a type of Musescore usage. It's not really a sheet music site or a publisher. I have a ton of music that has no basis in Musescore. I couldn't realistically post about it in the .com That's why I initially said that the .com is really about Musescore notation rather than about music. But then that leaves us in a situation where we can't use the .com to merely showcase and discuss the power of the new Muse Sounds apart from the vanilla render that the program uploads. That's why the .com isn't necessarily the best place to discuss and showcase all things related to the work product of the program. It seem to me that the forum space (here and at .org) fills that void better than the .com For example, the forums are a good place for film composers to discuss their Muse Sounds or M4 play engine usage. As for publishing houses and vendors like Pepper, of course one could publish for "sales" there (I self-publish, as most non-scholastic composers/arranger do). But those platforms are vendors/publishers not social media... like the .com and the forums. Some of us may want to talk about and demonstrate our usage without giving up the farm, as a basic account on the .com requires. |
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Depends on how you define "nuance". As I said originally, "if you're using Muse Sounds for the playback, it absolutely can be showcased on musescore.com, nuance and all. Even if you're also further processing the audio externally (eg, combining MuseScore-generated audio with sound effects etc), you can sync your score to an external audio source". And again, it absolutely positively does sync in playback if you follow the instructions. So you absolutely positively can showcase both Muse Sounds and your own skill in further tweaking the playback via DAW software. As for whether it makes sense to reach out to potential fans or customers of your music by sharing it with them in some way, that's entirely up to you. Literally millions of people find it does make sense, but if it doesn't to you personally, then no one is forcing you to. But absolutely nothing about the fact that the music happens to be film cues changes this equation in any way whatsoever. Not sure where you got the idea that no one is interested in film cues exactly as recorded. That's just factually incorrect; I know many people who collect such music. I'm not sure what the goal posts even are, I'm simply trying to addressing incorrect statements or misunderstandings here. |
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I haven't said anything incorrectly as far as I can see. You clued me in to the fact that only MuseScore can upload a render of the music from the application. I pointed out that this audio can only be the raw output from the file. I have an outside source assigned to the score from YouTube (the only outside source allowed on a basic account, or any account, from what I can see). It doesn't scroll on playback from multiple machines. The YouTube audio just plays by itself. Do you have any scores on there with the type of sync that you are referring to that I could see? The goal posts were first a suggestion that there is a significant following for posting film music projects on the .com. I showed that those aren't film music projects, but rather they are theme arrangements (nearly all illegal... pretty much all, but I'm being generous). Then the walked-back suggestion was that one COULD post film project files but the interest doesn't seem to be there. And I explained that was my original assertion, and there's a logical reason why there wouldn't be interest. Not sure there's much more for us to discuss on that front. |
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Again, to get the audio to sync, you have to follow the instructions. The following quotes from you are all completely false, and that is why I have been volunteering my time in an effort to assist you:
These are all just objectively untrue, for the reasons I've been trying to explain. So I'm not sure what your point is here in continuing to argue. You can subjectively decide that despite the fact that the platform does work, that nuanced audio is possible, that it can be synced to the score, that there is an interest in actual film score music, you still don't have any personal interest in sharing your work. That's fine. But the facts are the facts. How you choose to respond them is up to you. |
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What on earth? I can see why this thread is empty. And now I'm gone as well. It's a shame. |
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For the record, again, I tell people GitHub is the proper place for bug reports and for development discussions, because it. I have never once told people to come here to post their music, because it's the wrong place for that. And again, it's fine for you to decide not to take advantage of the features of musescore.com. I just wanted to correct the erroneous statements being made about it. If correcting those had been enough ton convince you to use the site, then great. If you still don't find it compelling, that's fine too. I've already responding to the individual points in quite some detail; I don't know what additional examples you'd need. Feel free to ask for further clarification. i remain willing to volunteer my time to assist. |
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It's really quiet around here. Some moderators over at the .org forum are saying that github is where the real discussion is, but it's just 'crickets' in this discussion thread.
I'll try to get the ball rolling here...
This is a short album of original works that was rendered using Muse Sounds. The first 4 pieces are all Muse Sounds, but the 5th is Virtual Playing Orchestra and other libraries. I composed each piece for a member of my immediate family, one for my wife, two for each of my kids and one for myself, plus one additional piece. My platform is Linux and the render version was 4.0 (so there was a bit of 'hacking' to get around score corruptions, playback bugs and sound library flaws in the early release).
Enjoy some Muse Sounds!
https://soundcloud.com/carl-irwin/sets/familiar
Thank you to the developers that put this remarkable play engine and library together!
-Carl Irwin
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