Request for a Chinese language.Translation completed.

[K-Hideyoshi]

I have linked game'text source to my Transifex project and made a Simplified Chinese translation for pioneer latest version 20141011. Up to now, there are over 500 Chinese player is using it. But if you apply the outdated translation packet to the newer version of game, It crashed. So I request for publish with the game on the later version,and add me to the contributor in order to update transilation when text updated. Thanks.

I don't know how to contact with the developer, so I post here. If it not supposed to be here, please tell me where it should be.

My Transifex project:
https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/pioneercn/language/zh_CN/

My E-Mail Address:
K-Hideyoshi@hotmail.com

[impaktor]

Indeed this is the place to file bug reports on specific issues, and to get attention from developers. To discuss development in a broader more general context, we use the dev forum.

The entire Transifex side of pioneer was managed by two developers who both have taken a leave of absence, but we'll see what we can do for you first, before we start annoying them.

I'd expect pioneer to crash whenever you have language files that are missing strings. That is why we always update the language files before a new build of pioneer, so that new strings will be in English until someone translates them. If the strings are not there pioneer will crash when trying to use them.

I'm not quite sure I understand your problem. The Mandarin translation is currently at 60%, and I don't quite see why you have your own private translation? If you have translated strings then please submit them to https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/pioneer/

Or is Simplified Chinese not what we currently have in the Mandarin translation?

You are entirely free to translate as you see best fit, and re-translate/replace any of our existing mandarin string you deem poor or inferior to what is currently translated.

If you lack a language (Cantonese? Traditional Chinese?, Simplified Chinese?), then tell us and we will add it to the transifex project, so that you can work with our copy directly.

[impaktor]

@K-Hideyoshi We have now added zh_CN to pioneer, and we would be very happy if you would copy over your translations to us:

https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/pioneer/language/zh/

[K-Hideyoshi]

@impaktor
thanks for your reply, it helps a lot.

I have already submit all translated strings to language "Chinese(Mandarin)" and it's currently at 100%! I hope I can find "简体中文" means Simplified Chinese or Chinese(Mandarin) in the next version of Pioneer! That will be a huge encouragement to me!

There is almost no difference between Chinese(Mandarin) and Simplified Chinese. The only difference between them I can tell is that "Mandarin" refers to speaking and "Simplified Chinese" refers to writing. So we just need one of them :)

And I'm pretty sure that every Chinese can read Chinese(Mandarin)/Simplified Chinese no matter what accent they are saying(like Cantonese). So we just need Chinese(Mandarin) (great!).

I know game crashing is caused by missing strings and every time game updates I need to update my Chinese Localization Packet and tell them "Pioneer and my Packet updated!" through our own forum, that's suffering. So i turn to developers for help, This is the reason why I post. And I don't even know that develop team is also using Transifex to do with l11n stuff. I have no offensive to have my own translation project because I don't know that when I creating it. But now I exactly know what I can do for this game.I love this game and I wish it will become better and better.

I will submit new translated text once the origin text updates asap.Thanks again.

[impaktor]

I have already submit all translated strings to language "Chinese(Mandarin)" and it's currently at 100%!

Great! Thanks!

There is almost no difference between Chinese(Mandarin) and Simplified Chinese

If the translation is technically not Mandarin, and if there are differences, even if they're small, then I think Mandarin should be Mandarin and Simplified Chinese should be Simplified Chinese. So in that case you can leave Mandarin the way it is now, and just update and use the Chinese zh files for all future changes and additions. As you probably can tell, my knowledge of the Chinese languages is limited at best.

I know game crashing is caused by missing strings and every time game updates I need to update my Chinese Localization Packet and tell them "Pioneer and my Packet updated!" through our own forum,

Well, no more. Form now on it will be compatible, and any new string will just be in plain English until you update the translation on our site.

If you are interested here's the thread about how CJK support was added to the game, just 6 months ago:
Pioneer dev forum: CJK support

[lwho]

If the translation is technically not Mandarin, and if there are differences, even if they're small, then I think Mandarin should be Mandarin and Simplified Chinese should be Simplified Chinese.

I disagree, this only leads to both translations being partial because people submit translations to either one of them, but not both.

We don't have Austrian or Swiss German, American Spanish, not even Indian, Australian, or American vs. British English. Most of them certainly qualify as "there are differences, even if they're small" (and they are actually not that small in most cases).

I can not judge how big the differences are for Simplified Chinese vs. Mandarin (I actually thought that they are "comparable" at all as the first is the script and the latter is one of the many languages spoken in China that all share the same script), but from what @K-Hideyoshi wrote it seems to be in the same class as above mentioned variants.

[impaktor]

this only leads to both translations being partial because people submit translations to either one of them, but not both.

@lwho we could always remove the one which @K-Hideyoshi settles on not to update.

...American vs. British English.

That is a bit tricky since we have not decided which is the official language of Pioneer. The code seems to be mostly British. And then you have Cambridge vs. Oxford spelling convention. But other than that I see no reason for us not to have those separate, other than no one is willing to maintain it.

I know too little about Chinese writing system and dialects to have any further opinion on the matter, so I'll see what you @lwho and @K-Hideyoshi settles on.

@K-Hideyoshi By the way, are there any obvious problems with the CJK support, besides the obvious one that some strings (like star system description for Sol and Epsilon Eridani) not being in the translation system?

We would love to hear more about the pioneer-community in china. We (or at least I) had no idea there was such a thing. Do you have a web site or a forum? If so, I'd like to link to if from our wiki. Are the players using Windows, GNU/Linux, OSX, or a mix of the three? Did you ever have the original Elite (in any of its forms or sequels) in China? Are you located in Hong Kong or is the community spread all over the country? I'm thinking perhaps you had the BBC micro in Hong Kong, back in the day? Forgive me if I'm too curious, but I find it very exciting that we reached out so far.

[K-Hideyoshi]

@lwho @impaktor
What I want to say is: Mandarin is one of many languages spoken in China,And Simplified Chinese is one of many script written in China. Some accent shared one script(like Mandarin and Hunan accent shared Simplified Chinese),and some script shared by some accent(like Traditional Chinese shared by Hong Kong-Cantonese and Taiwanese) So you can't speak in Simplified Chinese or write in Mandarin.

The example above is just a very simple example, the reality is waaaaaaaay more complicated that even a Chinese can't tell what exactly going on here... If you guys are interested in Chinese writing and speaking system, you can check it out in WIKI:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language

[K-Hideyoshi]

@impaktor
I'm very happy to talk with you too. We have a space-sim gamer forum(not only us in China), and pioneer is one part of serval space-sim-game parts.
We Advocate genuine games, and provide Chinese l11n for them, like egosoft's X series, we are happy and glad to link or be linked with wiki. Here is the pioneer section of our forum: http://bbs.deeptimes.org/forum.php?mod=forumdisplay&fid=163
our community indeed spread all over the country.
I'm in mainland of China. Did you heard of ShangHai?
We use mix of these OS(BBC micro not included, lol), Linux is my favorite :)

by the way the CJK support seemed works very well, no need to touch them.
Happy to talk with you.

[impaktor]

I think in general one should be well defined and consistent in the aproach to the work being done. The perfect example of how we are not consistent is when it comes to the default English in Pioneer, as I mentioned above, it is currently a mix of US-english and UK-english, both regarding the code (variable names, and code comments and documentation) and the in-game language.

I assume you have a clear idea of which dialect you are translating to, and which writing convention you are using. We should then of course make sure it is correctly named in the Transifex system.

We have a space-sim gamer forum(not only us in China), and pioneer is one part of serval space-sim-game parts.

Your community seems similar to SSC which is also a forum for space games, with pioneer as a sub forum.

by the way the CJK support seemed works very well, no need to touch them.

Very good to hear!

I'm in mainland of China. Did you heard of ShangHai?

I think everyone knows of Shainghai, although I can't remember ever having seen it spelled with capital "H".

Your translation is in the game now, so if you build it from the official git repository it is there. However, I don't think there will be any builds released by us on the download page until #3202 is fixed.

[K-Hideyoshi]

@impaktor
So we are now using "Chinese" in Transifex, I saw the latest update on the official git repository is using "Chinese" instead of "Chinese(Mandarin)", if so, I will upload all strings to "Chinese", and please delete "Chinese(Mandarin)" in Transifex.
I will do that once I get your confirmation.

[impaktor]

I'm afraid I'm not quite understanding what you mean.

I saw the latest update on the official git repository is using "Chinese" instead of "Chinese(Mandarin)"

Could you please clarify what you mean by "use"? Pioneer uses what ever language the player chooses to use as I'm sure you know. We added "Chinese" (files:zh.json) yesterday thinking this is what you wanted, and this is now added to the source tree, but it is currently all non-translated english strings.

You might have seen that "Chinese (Mandarin)" (files: cmn.json) are also updated in the source now, since this is where you updated the translation.

if so, I will upload all strings to "Chinese", and please delete "Chinese(Mandarin)" in Transifex.

I would say: if the dialect you're using in the translation is Mandarin, then keep it as it is, and I will remove the language we added yesterday ("Chinese" / zh). If it is not Mandarin, but something else then perhaps it would be better to have it as just plain "Chinese" (zh.json).

I will do that once I get your confirmation.

perhaps @lwho wants to comment first.

[lwho]

@impaktor: As @K-Hideyoshi confirmed Mandarin is only a spoken language. As such, what we have there can't be Mandarin as it is written language:

So you can't speak in Simplified Chinese or write in Mandarin.

This is not a matter of dialects it's a matter of written vs. spoken language (a distinction we don't have in European languages). @K-Hideyoshi please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639-3#Language_codes also suggests that we want "zh" rather than "cmn". So, I think we should remove Mandarin (cmn) once the translations are in "Simplified Chinese" (zh).

I will upload all strings to "Chinese", and please delete "Chinese(Mandarin)" in Transifex.

@K-Hideyoshi: I agree. Please tell us, when you are finished and we will delete Mandarin then.

[impaktor]

So you can't speak in Simplified Chinese...

That part I had processed, and understood.

So you can't... write in Mandarin.

Ah, this part I had missed.

we want "zh" rather than "cmn".

Sounds reasonable

👍

[K-Hideyoshi]

@impaktor
Sorry for my poor English...

@lwho I have finished language "zh" and we can get rid of "cmn"...
I think what @lwho said is what I'm trying to say, Thank @lwho .
Yes we need "zh" or "zh_cn" rather than "cmn". Because "cmn" is informal here.Using Mandarin(cmn) in a chinese translation project or even "write in Mandarin" is ridiculous)

@impaktor
It's OK to use Simplified Chinese(zh_cn or zh). People who writes Traditional Chinese(zh_hk or zh_tw) can read them easily. If you think that is unacceptable or unfair, then I will made a Traditional Chinese(zh_hk) version too.
And forget Mandarin(cmn)... Let me try to explain it again:
For most of people living in China, when they read an article written in Simplified Chinese, what come out from their mouth called Mandarin.Or in code:

mandarin = guy.readSimplifiedChinese(Mandarin);
mandarin = guy.readTraditionalChinese(Mandarin); //Error,guy don't recognize Traditional Chinese letters.
yue = guy.readSimplifiedChinese(Yue); //Null,guy never learnt to speak yue

hope you can get it...

[impaktor]

Ha! Loved the code example. Thanks for clarification. Excellent, then we are all understanding each other.

We will remove the cmn translation, so please only update the zh one for any future update.

If you think that is unacceptable or unfair, then I will made a Traditional Chinese(zh_hk) version too.

I'd say the developers of pioneer are not in a position to "demand" anything of the translators other than that the work they do is correct to the best of the translators abilities and knowledge. We are very happy and grateful for any translation you and others contribute to pioneer, and the translators will decide what they translate and how much they want to translate.

Btw, there might be some new strings to translate in a week or so, as new features will be added.

[impaktor]

Chinese Mandarin is now removed so I'll close for now, (but posting here is still possible).

[impaktor]

@K-Hideyoshi I took the oportunity to invite freemangl and Jaws of your (old?) PioneerCN
https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/pioneercn/language/zh_CN/
to Pioneer's project on transifex, in an effort to minimize duplicating work.

By the way, if anyone in the Chinese pioneer community writes a mod (like adding a new mission, art, ship, building, font, icons, or similar), please let them know that we are always interested in including it into the game, if it fits with the general direction of the game.