Skip to content
New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Check rendering of foreign languages and tweak if necessary #19

Closed
JanelleJenstad opened this issue May 9, 2022 · 10 comments
Closed

Check rendering of foreign languages and tweak if necessary #19

JanelleJenstad opened this issue May 9, 2022 · 10 comments
Assignees
Labels
bug Something isn't working Priority: normal

Comments

@JanelleJenstad
Copy link

In emdPer_Appolonius.xml, we have a number of paragraphs with an @xml:lang attribute and the value la.

<p xml:lang="la">
            Qualiter Appolinus in cena recumbens nihil comedit, sed, doloroso vultu, submisso capite, maxime ingemiscebat; qui tandem a filia regis confortatus citheram plectens cunctis audientibus citherando vltra modum complacuit.
            </p>

They are not rendering in italics but we would like them to be rendered in italics.

The question to @martindholmes is whether we should:

  1. Wrap all of these in a <foreign> element to make the processing easier, or
  2. Have you write processing that italicizes <p> elements with xml:lang that is anything other than en.

Notes:

  1. Our documentation does say that one can use @xml:lang on <p>.
  2. Navarra has tried wrapping the text in <foreign> and it still wasn't rendering in italics.
  3. This particular file is a supplementary text (with docType letModernSpelling and ldtPrimary, which may be the source of the problem.
@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

I don't think we have any specific handling for foreign languages, so I wouldn't expect to see any output whatever you do. I think the issue of what language is being used is distinct from the issue of whether you want to render it as foreign; there are lots of cases where (for example) Latin is used but shouldn't be italicized because e.g. CMOS says "Commonly used Latin words and abbreviations should not be italicized."

So I think it makes sense to use the <foreign> element, and it would be best to put the @xml:lang on that element, I believe.

However, we already have a pattern that's in common use:

<foreign rendition="rnd:italic" xml:lang="la">Memento Mori</foreign>

(emd1H4_F1)

and we also have:

<foreign xml:lang="it">bona robas</foreign>

(emd2H4_M)

The former renders in italics, and the latter doesn't. So I think we should probably make a policy for this. If people have used the <foreign> element with and without a rendition attribute on purpose to distinguish between text that they do and don't want to see in italics, then we don't want to bork that by making all <foreign> elements italic by default.

@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

@JanelleJenstad What do you think we should do on this ticket? Thinking about it, the options are:

  1. Stick with the current system, where @rendition is used when italics are required.
  2. Make all instances of <foreign> show in italics. There are 2890 of these in the collection; 626 of them have @rendition, and of those, in 312 cases the @rendition contains "italic". So we can expect the rendering of about 2500 instances to change without warning if we do this (although some of them may already be italic through some other mechanism).
  3. Investigate to figure out why <foreign> would be used without italic rendering, then decide on a general styleguide rule and impose it on every case.

@JanelleJenstad
Copy link
Author

JanelleJenstad commented Jun 20, 2022

In modern texts, should be italicized by default. Do not use renditions on <foreign>.

@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

martindholmes commented Jun 20, 2022

  1. Make all <foreign> elements render in italic in modern texts.
  2. Remove @rendition italicization components from modern texts.
  3. Leave <foreign> elements alone in OS texts.
  4. Create a diagnostic which lists all cases where the text is letOldSpelling or letMixed, and an @status value of IML=TEI_INP, because these must be fixed before we can add Schematron.

@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

martindholmes commented Jul 29, 2022

I've done #1 and #2 in rev 9971. I found only 7 cases of a <foreign> element with @rendition for italic in letModern texts. #3 is no-action, so that leaves just #4. I'm not sure about exactly what we meant to achieve with #4: @JanelleJenstad can you remember exactly what we wanted to know and why?

There is one case of a rendition on a foreign element which is designed to centre it. in FBFB_M, but I think that case is a trailer from the OS text which should not even be in the modern version.

@JanelleJenstad
Copy link
Author

JanelleJenstad commented Jul 29, 2022

Lots of modern editions include trailers (e.g., FINIS is very commonly included in modern editions). So let's leave FBFB_M as is.

I can't remember why we needed a list before we implemented Schematron, unless I wanted to change to OS texts before you implemented the rule. Transcribers shouldn't be making judgement calls about foreign language in OS texts; we should just be capturing the fact that something is italicized. Foreign languages in playbooks are really complicated. Sometimes they're just stage gibberish, so wrapping around them is a judgement call best left to the editor of the modern text.

@JanelleJenstad
Copy link
Author

I think we can close this ticket now. We are happy with '' not being rendered in italics and having editors add a rendition attribute if they want it to italicize.

@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

Closing this -- I think it got missed.

@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

Decision reversed at LEMDO meeting 2022-10-26: All foreign elements should be rendered in italics, and people that tag things that shouldn't be italic will be told not to tag such things as e.g. "ad hoc".

@martindholmes martindholmes reopened this Oct 26, 2022
@martindholmes
Copy link
Contributor

I believe this is now working.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment
Labels
bug Something isn't working Priority: normal
Projects
None yet
Development

No branches or pull requests

2 participants