Start re-displaying upvote/downvote numbers #1071
Conversation
This removes all displays of specific upvote/downvote numbers through both the site and API, and only displays score. Due to the API not previously including score for comments, all apps were calculating the score themselves by doing ups - downs. So as to not break everything, we now pass the score as the number of upvotes as well, and always say that there are 0 downvotes. This should result in still showing correct scores, but will make it look like nothing is ever being downvoted in any apps that expose ups/downs.
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Please accept this!! |
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Reddit needs to listen community. REVERT |
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I support this pull request. |
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84.9% of people disapprove of the change @Deimos Seriously, listen to your userbase! It's not a phase. They likely won't get over it and even if they do, then how they view reddit as a community will be always be negative due to overtly dictatorial admins. |
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I support this pull request, please return to the old method, it wasn't perfect but this is a step in the wrong direction. |
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Hey can you submit your code over to my version of reddit? That'll be greatly appreciated! https://github.com/ZekeZenon/reddit |
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@ZekeZenon Your fork already has the reverted code 😄 |
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It does? So none of this silly (? | ?) business? I'm fairly certain the code isn't reverted. But alright then. |
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@ZekeZenon Opps! You were right! I was diffing the wrong branch! |
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@spladug What's your opinion on this pull request? |
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Yeah, I had a feeling you were :P So send that pull request over and I'll accept it. |
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Support |
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+1 The new update is very annoying. |
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+1 |
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-1 don't restore the old functionality Remove the ?'s altogether and let people focus on content instead of upvotes |
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What about smaller subreddits? Don't you feel that this will disproportionately hurt them? And, what about the right of self-determination of the subreddits? Don't you feel that the subreddits should be able to choose whether they want in or out on a change that could utterly destroy them? Also, we could have a poll (sort of like a referendum) on whether the counter stays in or out. What do you think about that? |
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Support. |
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I'm unsure about whether GitHub is considered a forum where this discussion is welcome, but I personally feel that the ability to gauge reactions to my comments (especially, to see the difference between an overlooked post and a controversial one) is very nice, and I would certainly appreciate it if this change was reverted. I'm happy to see that people are experimenting with the structure of Reddit, but I think this experiment has failed. @jradavenport: I don't think it's useful to equate interest in moderation with a narcissistic infatuation with imaginary internet points. I care about the moderation system because it's a vital part of the social fabric of Reddit - it defines the community by defining what is visible. I also don't agree that asking why something is being downvoted is an undesirable thing. Since Reddit is, at heart, a system geared towards separating uninteresting and unconstructive from good content, downvotes become a (necessary) form of censorship. I have several times found it useful to protest that a constructive but unpopular post giving a minority perspective is being downvoted and thus becoming invisible. |
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@jradavenport |
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👍 |
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My application has been using the number of upvotes and downvotes to send notifications to users. Now this popular feature is broken and probably not coming back. Did you even think about the impact on developers using your API and 3rd party applications? This is really disappointing. |
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Was this change announced prior to its implementation? |
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No. |
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Considering the feedback you've been having in the past hours, I still don't understand why this feature hasn't been re-enabled yet. |
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Agreed. Usually, reddit inc are very good at listening to the community and responding fast to these types of discussions. I would love to see them accept this pull request! |
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The difference between a web service designed for programmatic consumption To the point: killing the API just makes it incrementally harder for a |
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Alright then make it a one day notice. That's almost certainly not enough time to switch from JSON to screen-scraping, and it would still satisfy users by telling them what's going on. |
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If a commercial service that offered an API, such as Stripe, suddenly changed its API without telling people, I'd understand the outrage. However Reddit is not like Stripe, and does not need to consult or notify the devs that use their API. Breaking your Stripe app would cost you business, breaking your bot? Probably not. On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 12:19 PM, AnSq notifications@github.com wrote:
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@eganist You're dismissing the votes of Reddit's core. That's almost 14k votes that people found buried in the comments page among thousands of other comments. Did you know that the majority of Karma on Reddit is in just 1% of Reddit accounts? That means 1% of users are responsible for the majority of links, posts, and comments. And that's the portion of the community that Reddit is pissing off. |
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"However Reddit is not like Stripe, and does not need to consult or notify the devs that use their API. Breaking your Stripe app would cost you business, breaking your bot? Probably not." Sure it doesn't... reddit doesn't need to do anything. However, it'd be wise for reddit to listen to its core users, since they are what makes reddit reddit. Without them, reddit is toast. Just pull stuff like this often enough and people who actually have the resources to create a full fledged fork of reddit, will go ahead and do it... It's happened to other websites before and reddit is on its way there. |
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I support this pull request. Please revert. |
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people are being harsh. |
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Hey guys. Take a look at Reddit Votify. The catch is that it independently hooks into upvotes and downvotes separate from Reddit so it needs a significant userbase for upvotes and downvotes to come back. |
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@bkdotcom Are you serious? Two hours is not enough time. It happened in the middle of a Wednesday afternoon for goodness sake. |
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@kevinvincent That sounds great! Maybe @honestbleeps could implement it into RES? |
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+1 |
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Is anyone else getting pretty angry that it's been nearly 4 days and still no response from the reddit team? |
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It's mildly irritating, but not at all surprising. I'm intrigued as to when Reddit feels opposition stops being a kneejerk reaction & starts being a serious ongoing concern. |
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The announcement thread is now below zero points (still “50% upvoted” though). Think about the implications of that for a minute. |
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Yikes. Given the thread was in the thousands on positive vote count at one point, that's a significant drop. |
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Somewhat oddly, the recently viewed links still give an accurate tally. So despite "50% upvoted"...
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@AnSq |
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@AnSq Well, isn't this the whole point for this new change? Now they can fuzz votes as much as they like and we won't even know about it. I wish reddit inc would just donate reddit to the community. |
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@BukhariH The one thing I would say is that this was probably a business decision, so bugging the devs will have little real impact... our dissatisfaction should be with the people who make the decisions, not those who implement them. |
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@BukhariH Don't expect them to stand up to their nonsense. If you want to know why... well, here's a thread that recently appeared within the halls of /r/subredditdrama: In other words, the admins don't care, never did, and are unlikely to change their opinions. |
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@apfeltee That's a really great point on that thread! In fact I think it deserves it's own issue: I would love it if reddit commented on #1074 ! |
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@BukhariH Good idea indeed! |
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@umbrae Thanks to reddit inc for listening to us a little bit: However, the solution is a non starter. It just doesn't address the concerns we've had! You can tell that by just reading the thread at: https://pay.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/293oqs/new_reddit_features_controversial_indicator_for/ Currently, the best solution which addresses reddit incs claimed concerns and the concerns of it's user is:
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The counting system was fuzzed (i.e. inaccurate). |
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The counting system was fuzzed, but still held information that people miss. You could, for instance, tell the difference between a few votes and a lot of votes. "50%" doesn't tell you if you got one up vote and one down vote or a million of each. That is very useful information. It should also be noted that fuzzing only took place past a certain point. Many small subreddits used votes as exact counts because they actually were exact counts. After the dust is completely settled though, what will become the most important takeaway is that Reddit made large, API-breaking, community-rattling changes with zero warning, zero discussion, and zero concern for customer feedback. The attitude surrounding this change is far more troubling than the actual change. |
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Thanks for your thoughts on this everyone. We maintain this was the right call, but I know many of you didn't feel that way. Hopefully over the course of time this has become less painful and the controversial indicator gets you a good amount of what you felt was lost. I'm going to lock this as well, and for future reference this repo is only for confirmed bugs to be worked on. For discussions like this, /r/ideasfortheadmins is probably the right place. |
Removing the counter was a terrible decision and I think most of us can agree on that!
So, lets start re-displaying the counter and forget it ever happened 😄