Meta Bug - Communiation

[mutech]

Problem

This concerns the issue #13350 and to a lesser extend #1734 and the communication between users (me in this case) and project members (@epage) but it is a distinct issue from both my comment on the original technical issue and the subsequent issue I opened. Please bare with me for a moment. I'm not trying to escalate a conflict or to get the last word.

I fully expect this issue to be locked as were the two others and I would not be surprised if as a result of posting this issue here, I might be banned from the project or github, even though I don't really know the mechanism. So whatever happens to this issue and my account, I will not open any more tickets in this project or interact with it, unless or until this issue here is resolved amicably.

I see my part or my fault in this procedure at least insofar as I could have chosen a more conciliatory tone from the start. I don't believe that anything I said is abusive or inappropriate though. I chose that strong language I used because the road of polite conversation has been traveled and did not lead anywhere. If I am misjudging the situation, I am perfectly willing to correct my view and sincerely apologize. However, I don't see that yet.

So far, I disagree both with the necessity and the proportionality of locking the original issue #1734, but this is just an opinion and mine is no better than that of @epage, and this is your project, not mine.

When I opened the followup issue, I selected "feature request" as an issue type. That means that I request something I see as an improvement. It's not a demand. It was a suggestion. And that was not about the original technical issue - ~/.cargo it was about a much broader issue that is social in nature. I do not expect you to agree with me, to be convinced or to argue with me. I offered a suggestion, no more than that. This was not an attempt to start a war, I wanted to explain where I am coming from, what I believe the implications of the original issue are and why I believe this is important.

I locked it for social reasons, not technical, as that conversation was going in the wrong direction.

That raises the question what exactly "wrong" and "right" means in this context. On one hand, there is your project with it's agenda, the interests of rust developers, project members, employees, on the other hand there are people affected by your decisions. And then there are transitive effects that your decision have, such as "if even major tools like cargo don't respect XDG conventions, they can savely be ignored". Can you really so easily classify that direction as wrong?

As this violates the spirit of that locking

In my original comment I said that cargo violates user trust to which this seems to be a response. I said more than just a phrase, I wrote pages of text explaining exactly what I meant by that violation of trust. I think I made a good point, but that's usually what people think about their own points.

But I cannot violate the spirit of locking, because I never agreed to subscribing to a spirit of censorship. And I have a hard time interpreting this locking as anything else, because I really don't see that I crossed a line with anything I said until that point.

I am going to lock this as well until we feel it is time to open things back up.

This happened seconds after I posted a very long issue, that does not contain strong language at all. There was definitely no time for @epage to read that text, not even speed reading it. It's hard to take that as anything but personal.

I understand you don't see yourself as a Rust user and so its surprising when Rust related things get in your way.

I know for a fact that I am not a Rust user. This is not a matter of perspective.

This will be a continued problem we need to work on improving

You understand that the effect of "Trust us" is limited, when I already mentioned that I perceive your attitude as a violation of trust, do you? This happens in a context of an issue that was opened nine years ago. So asking for patience and trust sounds like politics here.

I don't want to say too much more because I don't want this viewed as me "getting in the last word" before locking

If you don't want to be seen as wanting the last word, you might want to reconsider the communication tools you are using here. This is the rhetorical equivalent of a sledge hammer.

I would not have opened the second ticket (#13350), if you had a means of private communication published that would not require me to register an account on a service I would not otherwise use. If the original issue would not have been locked, I would have clarified a few points and I would have apologized to you personally and the team as a whole for the roughness of my language, not because I believe that anything I said is factually wrong, but simply because it was unnecessarily rough. I could have and better should have tampered down the tone and said what I wanted to say.

but I want to make sure you understand that I understand the problem

You achieved the opposite. You made sure that I understand that you misunderstood my real issue. I understood from your early responses that you are advocating for XDG compliance in the team. I understood that, before I wrote my comment and before your replies and the locking. I mentioned you personally, because what you said over emphasized the 9 year period. I tried to make clear that I do not criticize you by saying something like "what epage said is reasonable", that was not clear enough though.

My problem is, that if a tool like cargo refuses to comply for XDG for 9 years, this has a damaging effect far beyond the annoyance of me having to delete a .cargo folder. That is not and never was the point.

even if not the degree you feel about it.

It's a qualitative not a quantitative issue. Is it my home directory or is it yours? Referencing the issue you didn't read before you locked it: Is it my privacy or <insert your favorite coorp/project>'s?

It's just not up to you to decide where and what to write in peoples home directories, unless they can reasonably expect you to do that.

Summary

I find the locking habits both counterproductive and abusive, knowing that this is your project and you can choose whatever policy you like. But is this really whom you want to be?

As promised, unless you invite another response from me, I'm off.

Steps

No response

Possible Solution(s)

No response

Notes

No response

Version

No response

[mutech]

I'm closing this to reduce visibility, because this is not really about publicity. Just wanted you to see that response, @epage.