[BUG-231579] User-Controllable Rig Dominance

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How would you like the feature to work?

re: Linden Labs Office Hours, wherein i asked how the system handles the avatar wearing two different mesh rigs with joint position overrides.

Vir Linden: If you wear two rigged items, both should be displayed correctly. The only place I know of where it's an issue of "dominance" is with joint position overrides.

Vir Linden: With joint position overrides, one mesh has to "win" over the others. This is determined based on the mesh id - if I recall correctly the lowest mesh id wins

basically, the 'dominant' mesh is random.

i am not sure on the best way to implement this. there are two methods i can think of:

1a: the rig worn first is dominant.
ie: you wear a kobold, then add some angel wings. the wings do not affect the kobold's shape.

1b: the rig worn last is dominant.
ie: you wear some digigrade legs, some wings, a tail, then put the main body on to rule them all.

Problem: wearing a folder/outfit/multiple items at once – which one is first? could cause problems.

2: the rig higher on the "attachment totem pole" (what this exactly is, i don't know. is it a thing?)
ie: an attachment on the right hand has highest priority, attachment on the skull second highest... and so on, in some sort of order?

Problem: you would end up having to wear things on weird attachment points. like your head on your left lower leg to give it the right priority or something, and don't we have enough problems clicking freaking rigged mesh?

Why is this feature important to you? How would it benefit the community?

right now, it's a crap-shoot if you can get a partial rig to work with your full (or other partial) rig.

see the attached picture for how a head with only face bones rigged can distort a dinkie body.

this is also a problem with some wings. adding wings may stretch your torso, or knock it out of position.

any kind of partial rig with joint positions can have this happen "randomly," as it is based on UUIDs.

for clothing, it's fine, the clothing should NOT have joint positions. but if you're making wings or a tail, or a head, you need to be able to position the joints to match your model.

so it is very important for modular body parts.

Attachments

• WIP.png 2021-12-18 11:24:13

Links

Related

• [BUG-231904] Joint offsets not applying consistently on the same collada file #9276

Duplicates

• [BUG-231904] Joint offsets not applying consistently on the same collada file #9276

Original Jira Fields

Field	Value
Issue	BUG-231579
Summary	User-Controllable Rig Dominance
Type	New Feature Request
Priority	Unset
Status	Accepted
Resolution	Accepted
Reporter	Bloodsong Termagant (bloodsong.termagant)
Created at	2021-12-18T16:29:24Z
Updated at	2022-07-01T22:16:33Z

{
  'Build Id': 'unset',
  'Business Unit': ['Platform'],
  'Date of First Response': '2022-01-05T13:03:52.305-0600',
  'How would you like the feature to work?': 're: Linden Labs Office Hours, wherein i asked how the system handles the avatar wearing two different mesh rigs with joint position overrides.\r\n\r\nVir Linden: If you wear two rigged items, both should be displayed correctly. The only place I know of where it\'s an issue of "dominance" is with joint position overrides.\r\n\r\nVir Linden: With joint position overrides, one mesh has to "win" over the others. This is determined based on the mesh id - if I recall correctly the lowest mesh id wins\r\n\r\nbasically, the \'dominant\' mesh is random.\r\n\r\ni am not sure on the best way to implement this.  there are two methods i can think of:\r\n\r\n1a: the rig worn first is dominant. \r\n  ie: you wear a kobold, then add some angel wings.  the wings do not affect the kobold\'s shape.\r\n\r\n1b: the rig worn last is dominant.\r\n  ie: you wear some digigrade legs, some wings, a tail, then put the main body on to rule them all.\r\n\r\nProblem:  wearing a folder/outfit/multiple items at once -- which one is first?  could cause problems.\r\n\r\n\r\n2:  the rig higher on the "attachment totem pole" (what this exactly is, i don\'t know.  is it a thing?) \r\n   ie: an attachment on the right hand has highest priority, attachment on the skull second highest... and so on, in some sort of order?\r\n\r\nProblem:  you would end up having to wear things on weird attachment points.  like your head on your left lower leg to give it the right priority or something, and don\'t we have enough problems clicking freaking rigged mesh?\r\n\r\n',
  'ReOpened Count': 0.0,
  'Severity': 'Unset',
  'Target Viewer Version': 'viewer-development',
  'Why is this feature important to you? How would it benefit the community?': 'right now, it\'s a crap-shoot if you can get a partial rig to work with your full (or other partial) rig.\r\n\r\nsee the attached picture for how a head with only face bones rigged can distort a dinkie body.\r\n\r\nthis is also a problem with some wings.  adding wings may stretch your torso, or knock it out of position.\r\n\r\nany kind of partial rig with joint positions can have this happen "randomly," as it is based on UUIDs.\r\n\r\nfor clothing, it\'s fine, the clothing should NOT have joint positions.  but if you\'re making wings or a tail, or a head, you need to be able to position the joints to match your model.\r\n\r\nso it is very important for modular body parts.\r\n\r\n',
}

[sl-service-account]

Vir Linden commented at 2022-01-05T19:03:52Z

Importing this as possible future work. Think it would need to be handled as a new field of some kind, to avoid inadvertently changing the ordering of existing content.

[sl-service-account]

Bloodsong Termagant commented at 2022-02-04T23:25:13Z

thanks a bunch, vir!

[sl-service-account]

Bloodsong Termagant commented at 2022-03-10T14:03:44Z

see also:  https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231904

 

[sl-service-account]

Bloodsong Termagant commented at 2022-07-01T22:16:34Z

would it be possible to shuffle the rigged mesh pieces, in the appearance floater?  like the same way you can raise/lower clothing/tattoo/universal layers?  and then saving as an outfit could also save the rig dominance order?

 

that's probably more complicated than bake layers.