v3.5/v3.51 + Total Commander plugin sLister blocks Quickview keyboard navigation

[hi5]

I'm using the Total Commander v11.02 release candidate along with the lister plugin SLister, which allows opening PDF files with SumatraPDF via F3 (Lister) or Ctrl+q (Quickview) in Total Commander.

When using Quickview you can use the TAB key to switch into the SumatraPDF panel (slister) and start reading/navigating the PDF.

When upgrading to v3.5 or v3.51 this no longer works. The TAB key and the Ctrl+q to close the Quickview no longer work and you have to use the mouse to make the Quicview active to start reading/navigating.

However, when you switch windows and come back to Total Commander, the TAB key and the Ctrl+q work as they should.

v3.5/v3.51 seems to prevent TC reacting to TCs "keyboard navigation" when being activated.

[deus-e-x]

I'm experiencing the issue, too. Here's a step-by-step description which hopefully helps to visualize the issue more clearly:

Using SumatraPDF v3.5.x with the SLister plugin for the file manager Total Commander (TC).

In TC's left file panel, the file cursor is on a PDF file. Press Ctrl+Q for quick-view, now the right file panel shows the PDF file and the file cursor (focus) switches to the right panel that currently displays the PDF file. Thus you cannot fluently continue quick-viewing the next/previous file in the left file panel with the cursor-up/down keys, you first have to manually switch back the focus to the left file panel.

Remarks:
When using a previous release of SumatraPDF like v3.4.6 or earlier, there are no such issues, the file cursor (focus) always remains in the left file panel which allows for fluent browsing through PDF files in quick-view mode.

Another user on Total Commander's forum pointed out that earlier pre-release versions of SumatraPDF (pre-v3.5.x releases) have been affected by this issue, too. But it was fixed with the then-final release.
https://ghisler.ch/board/viewtopic.php?p=443603#p443595

Links:
Total Commander: https://www.ghisler.com/
SLister plugin: https://totalcmd.net/plugring/slister.html

[GitHubRulesOK]

@kjk the developer can correctme if I am wrong but my view is,

SumatraPDF when designed for extra external plugin.dll usage (long long ago) was single frames in Netscape.
That system was not intended for tabbing and went stagnant when NAPI was dropped, so that dll was depreciated.
For several reasons the core ability was retained in both portable and installed versions however not guaranteed to work, with any other application.

slister and many other less scrupulous users/abusers may find the more recent changes have a wider effect/affect on mouse/key behaviours but If SumatraPDF has the focus on those keys they may not be accessible from outside (that is down to global keyboard limitations)

What I can suggest is try to set the keys desired to null or redirected in shortcuts and see if that releases them for external usage.

Without a working copy to try and see the issues I have to say its outside of SumatraPDF remit.

I note from TC discussions some users are confused about configuration , I thought I saw comments like SumatraPDF does not use data in ProgramFiles and that is true it will for Portable EITHER use its own folder OR a designated one and for Installed then Users Local appdata OR a designated one.
So Slister or TCSumatrapdf should be ideally portable with its own settings file alongside it OR program files with a designated folder for settings.

[GitHubRulesOK]

@hi5 @deus-e-x

Since I do not have TC but do run slister with latest SumatraPDF and that can be using UV here is AN observation

I can set Ctrl+Q at a function in UV see top left and that is invoked whist viewing any file such as icon viewer on right
I can use SumatraPDF annotation and help about etc in UV see bottom left

When I press Ctrl+Q SumatraPDF NOR Slister are using that combo it is used by UV to invoke exactly its own function.

Same with tab SumatraPDF has the focus on first line see selected text, but TAB is under UV control

[GitHubRulesOK]

@hi5 @deus-e-x

I have loaded TC stable 11.01
I load Slister using current pre-release (no other historic version can be altered)
it works for a selection set of PDF files to open the first one in the list via F3
Starting SumatraPDF 15871, GetCommandLineW():
C:\Users\lez\Downloads\Apps\Commanders\total\INSTALL\plugins\wlx\slister\SumatraPDF.exe -plugin 921656 "C:\Users\lez\Downloads\Apps\2023-06-14 data.pdf"

• Lister is set to slister
  SumatraPDF has focus and the use of N&P by SumatraPDF is blocked by Lister but the pulldown works for next previous file !!!
• Lister is set to SumatraPDF
  SumatraPDF has focus and the use of N&P by SumatraPDF works as per design Next page Previous page
  select Next from dropdown and slister opens file !!! so slister is causing an issue with SumatraPDF as a plug-in
• Switch focus to the Lister area (the TOPBAR)
  N & P work for NEXT file PREVIOUS file so SumatraPDF is NOT blocking use of the keys when focus is in Lister with slister

attempted workaround for the slister problem
set SumatraPDF to ignore n and p

result partially works
Lister now moves to NEXT file & PREVIOUS only after a mouse click in the body of the file !!!

Right lets change tack Remove slister via configuration and switch to TCSumatraPDF

• I have NOT blocked n & p in sumatraPDF thus using its default settings
  TCSumatraPDF is working perfectly n & p move from file to file (NOTE the plugin provides that feature that 4 n and p are redirected to Lister)

• Switch to test Quickview and the issue is slightly different when focus is inside SumatraPDF from TCSumatraPDF plugin it correctly has locally designed use of Next page Previous page UNTIL you select the TOPBAR were Lister has NEXT FILE PREVIOUS FILE control but its flaky needing re-selection often.

• Switch to slister in quickviewer and it works better tha TCSumatraPDF while focus is outside of sumatraPDF actually NO problem as per reported issue (when n & p are set to non active in SumatraPDF !!)

Summary

It appears that since Lister works and TCSumatraPDF works (both as per their design) the issue is with very old Slister in Lister but it works well in QuickViewer ! Whereas the issue with TCSumatraPDF is when its running inside QuickView.

[deus-e-x]

Thanks for your feedback, I will check your solution. I had another try a few days ago using TCSumatraPDF with different releases of SumatraPDF, all to no avail.

A pity that the developer of SumatraPDF doesn't seem to be bothered to reply.

[GitHubRulesOK]

@deus-e-x

In Fairness KJK is spending all his time fixing SumatraPDF issues whilst this is a Third Party use of what should have been a deprecated greyware use of Artifex License.

In theory TC and others including commercial applications should be using MuPDF Code directly under commercial License with Artifex.

[hi5]

The way I see it is that it is either a bug in sumatrapdf that changed the behaviour when loaded via the slister plugin (in this particular case), OR it is by design to no longer support/allow such usage - if so, so be it. Older versions of sumatrapdf still work. We'll wait for the developer to have a look.

TC does not support PDFs, nor does TC have anything to do with the slister plugin. TC just provides the framework for plugin developers so they can either improve support for already supported formats or add support for new formats such as here with slister+pdfs. I doubt PDF support will become native to TC (as there are already various lister plugins that support it, slister being one of them - in my view the best, but that is a personal preference)

[GitHubRulesOK]

On Windows the native PDF viewer for some time has been Edge which can be run as/in a viewport using either of 2 engines the Former Foxit engine slated as near EOL (however it is better than the New) "Replacement" severely crippled "Powered by Acrobat" engine, which will be increasingly monetised. So Edge is a Multiformat Plugin Viewer native to Windows not yet tabbed as a single pane viewer, but then its a windows tabbed product.
It supports standalone viewing of
GIF AGIF PNG APNG JPG BMP WebP (not tga, Not tif but could ?)
SVG, PDF (not PS not AI but could ?)
>

TXT TXTART EPUB HTML XM[HT]L?
Audio Video
and many others and there is no license issue as its supported and paid for by Windows User Pockets.

[hi5]

I understand you're trying to help, and that is of course appreciated, but there is already a TC plugin that uses Webview2 (edge) for showing various filetypes such as PDFs but also markdown and asciidoctor for example. And there are several other PDF lister plugins. If I want to view PDFs I have several backup solutions for the future.

But lets keeps focus on the slister + sumatrapdf v3.5+ combination here.

I'm not actually looking for an alternative, I'm looking for either confirmation that it will no longer be possible, OR a "oh that is a simple fix which will be included in the next stable release" comment from the developer :)

I can wait :)