Firing Pin System - The Lockbox Solution #6925
Conversation
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i hate this idea |
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Are you forgetting that ops frequently lose shit like agent IDs and belts and armor and headsets which could be turned against them really easily I find minibombs in stolen military belts from ops who don't explode in time and use them to gib ops all the time, for example, now this would be 100x easier. All this does is make looting ops easier, if anything, now that they don't have a default panic switch for taking out their gear if caught. It won't open up RP opportunity, it'll just make the shitler powergamer vigilantes murder AS FAST AS POSSIBLE and drag the body away so they can strip it and steal the gear and hog the phat lootz and op killer trophies. Don't remove explosive implants. Ops are not a roleplay gamemode. You're not going to get roleplay from nuclear emergency just like you're not going to get roleplay from wizards 99% of the time. People may say they take ops captive but in the heat of it they'll just murder/strip/call shuttle to deny op greentext. The rest of this PR owns though, lockboxes = shit |
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This is an amazing idea as far as the pins go, but the huge nerf to nuke ops is awful. Traitors should be able to buy something to override those pins, however, maybe an implant or even a nuke-style syndicate pin. |
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I like this PR because paprika doesn't 👍 |
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I dunno. It's something to consider, but I think fluke ops manage to get looted enough even with default explosive implants. The guns are the biggest thing, though I suppose minibombs are powerful too (maybe I could add an implant check there too?) Keep in mind that this also opens up the possibility of freeing arrested operative comrades from the brig. It's not a nerf or a buff, it's just a change. |
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It IS a nerf. You're making the guns even more powerful, and the more interesting tools (specially the stealthy ones) a lot less useful. Creative nuke tactics are shoved to the curb in exchange for run and gun which is very boring and not interesting at all. Furthermore, the single most valuable item the crew can loot from a nuke ops is the pinpointer, which is not locked. |
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They can loot it from them with the explosive implant as well. The way you're presenting it, explosive implants are somehow a magic solution to prevent looting, but that isn't true at all. |
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That's what they are, though. All semi-competent nuke ops (most of them, usually 3-4 out of the team of five from my experience) are going to blow themselves up before being looted. Now, if they want to do so, they'll have to either burn 9TC on it (which is a lot), or just buy a bunch of guns and forget about it. I really don't think we should be moving nuke ops in that direction, when the general consensus among coders seems to be encouraging less antag murderboner and more creative antagging. |
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So testing this out the first thing I'll say is that all guns spawned via the game panel should come equipped with a default firing pin. Besides that I'll say that traitors working R&D should still be able to get guns as they please with something they can get via their uplink with the most obvious choice being an emag used on a gun removing all associated firing pin restrictions. |
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Also unless I missed it I don't see any way to remove firing pins? You should really be able to if for example a scientist wants to test out a gun with a test firing pin and then gets the clearance to be loyalty implanted for use of a loyalty pinned gun. Would also provide a way for syndie weapons to be still be used by the crew but make it require more effort to be done what with having to remove the pin and then finding a replacement pin to put in. |
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Give ops dexplosive implants; they can pretty much call *deathgasp whenever they want to prevent people from looting--additionally, if they're in crit, they can just "succumb" and they'll die and immediately blow up. |
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this is fantastic! 👍 |
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Just add the pins to nuke ops, no need to remove the explosive implant. They won't suicide if they're captured alive and want to roleplay. If they blow themselves up once captured? They weren't planning on roleplaying anyway. |
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Removing default explosive implants from nuke ops. is terrible. "Explosive implants were added to prevent crew getting Op equipment, but it mostly failed at this as you could still strip an unconscious operative and you'd always get his gun since it wasn't equipped onto him." Also, it is indeed a nerf to traitors who could emag open lockboxes. Probably something should be given to them in exchange. In general, I think this change has some okay ideas but it would make the game worse in its current form. |
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How do you remove the firing pin from the gun? |
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Its a really cool idea, but its also a slippery slope. Hopefully we do not end up with id-locked guns screwing over traitors or non-antag hijinks. |
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oh god i was just thinking the other day 'what if someone codes MGS4 implant locked guns' i kind of think this should be tied to the ID instead |
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BEHOLD GUNS OF THE GUNCARGO |
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Many Ops don't know that if you succumb while in crit that you will still blow up. That's why Ops often get looted. I like the changes, but I still think Ops need their explosive implant. |
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I guess it can work, but it certainly shifts the power balance between cargo and R&D, and between crew and antagonist. |
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Interesting Idea. I would actually like to give this a test run for awhile to see it in action before I make some judgments. Though, I will probably always buy an explosive implant anyway as a nuke op because I fucking love those things. One of the reasons I love the implant bundle. NOTHING is better than exploding when caught! |
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So I've heard some feedback on antags obtaining pins for their treachery. I'll look into adding some solution for this -- Firing pins for 1tc, or printable in R&D with Syndi research levels, etc. There currently is no way to remove or replace a firing pin. This will probably be added eventually, but it has to be something that's relatively difficult to do otherwise you Sci will be hoarding all the laser tag equipment. Please forward any additional comments to https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2502 |
Proper ids for pins
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Yeah, I agree that explosive implants should stay and if they go, they
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Traitors should be able to order a "Universal Activator" implant that lets them use any gun, irregardless of firing pins How does this mesh with Summon Guns, since that spawns L6 SAWs? |
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| /////////////////Weapons///////////////// | |||
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| /datum/design/nuclear_gun/pin_testing | |||
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what's with these funky paths? why is a pin a subtype of the nuclear_gun design datum?
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Uh yeah @Cheridan make sure summon guns guns are pinless Double check the wands and staves too |
Change pin design path
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it's not a nerf stop calling everything a nerf |
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yes you're missing something here |
That includes all of the guns security's armed with. This IS a nerf to traitor scientists working R&D though as it stands currently. |
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I think the idea of having locking mechanisms for guns in the game is a good idea, but I don't like this implementation. Also what's wrong with lockboxes? They're actually secure unlike locked crates, and protolathes generating boxes is far from the most unrealistic thing in the game. Also if nothing else, it means you leave behind evidence, that can show whether it has been opened with access or emagged (unless you acid the empty boxes). |
-Examining a gun now shows its pin -You can now emag a firing pin to make it function without checks. -Loyalty pins unable to be constructed
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Everyone here is retarded. Allow me to explain this. ALL WEAPONS AT ROUNDSTART HAVE A FIRING PIN THIS INCLUDES ARMOURY WEAPONS. THE ONLY THING THIS PR CHANGES IS THAT ANY WEAPON THAT SCIENCE PRODUCES SIMPLY COMES WITHOUT A FIRING PIN AND NOT IN A BOX PLEASE PEOPLE. |
-Updates armory
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Pins are now emaggable to override them. Loyalty pins raised to combat 10 and are unable to be constructed for now. This is ready now. |
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Are only the pins emaggable, or can you emag them while in the gun? |
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Just the pins for now. They'll be removable later and I didn't want to write redundant code. |
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Rename the pins to 'electronic firing pin' please, since you can emag it and all that Also >firing_pin_pindi u think you're clever cheridan:question: |
-name change for muh fluff -i am in paprika's pocket
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👍 |
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Still going to ruin the balance of nuke ops, still 👎 from me. Buffing the L6 SAW of all things is awful, and removing the explosive implant encourages ops to focus on guns/mechs/syndiborgs/viscerators instead of the other more interesting items, which is terrible. I have no idea why you're so adamant about downplaying this, but it really is a big change in the direction of nuke, and not a good one. |
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We could really easily make the l6 a 5.56 LMG and do 35 damage like the carbine Actually someone should probably do that and lower the price a bit. |
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@tkdrg I think the change is a good one. They are supposed to buy those big-ticket items in high-population rounds. That is why they are there, to provide extra firepower to counter the increased enemy force. What "other more interesting items" are you talking about? Chameleon projectors? |
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I've thought about it a bit more, and I suppose you're right. The 3 important items that this nerfs are syndie minibombs, chemsprayers and pinpointers. The first one was always BS so a nerf is fine, and the middle one was already due for a rebalancing (which I might PR soon[tm]), which leaves pinpointers as high-value loot. I'm not sure if that is going to make the ops too weak, but I'm willing to wait and see. |
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I'd pin chemsprayers if I could, but they're not technically guns. There's already a safeguard to prevent sprayers from being used against Ops though, which is that blood-red hardsuits have 100 bio protection. I'll concede on the pinpointer. If the crew getting pinpointers becomes a big problem then we can lock those some other way, possibly. |
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i really dont think removing the explosive implant is a good idea, it's very out of touch for you to assume theyre only so people don't get their guns (lol? they would have dropped their guns already anyway, since people only active them in crit or when stunned with no hope of getting away) please reconsider, or leave that to a seperate Pr, it's a huge nerf to ops which is completely unrelated to their guns and it wont encourage any sort of roleplay |
I KNOW that explosive implants don't effect guns. That's basically the whole point of this. Explosive implants were added for equipment denial but ultimately fail at their role while removing gameplay possibilities. |
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ops being killed by their own gear in 3...2... |
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Was this seriously merged with the explosive implant removal? Op NEED those implants. As soon as one op dies, now their comms are compromised, the crew can track the disk and by extension the nuke/the ops/the shuttle, they have all their gear which almost for certain includes secondary gear such as the pistol and possibly the shotgun, as well as emags, syndie ID's for chasing the nuke with the pinpointer right onto the shuttle, space suit/jetpack for space etc etc. This is a terrible idea, and frankly has nothing to do with putting safeties on guns. If you want a syndie safety linked to an implant, make the damn explosive implant do that also, don't remove it and cripple ops. |
Adds Firing Pins system for guns.
Firing pins are items that are inserted into guns. Most guns start with a default firing pin, which runs no extra checks.
Intended to solve 2 large problems:
A. Replace the Lockboxes in R&D. Firing pins are items that are inserted into guns.
Most guns start with a default firing pin, which runs no extra checks.
Guns printed in R&D start without firing pins.
Adds 2 firing pin designs to R&D:
-Testing-range pin which allows a gun to fire in proximity to the testing range.
-High-grade Loyalty pin which allows a gun to fire if the user is loyalty implanted.B. Fix issue of Nuke Ops not wanting to buy heavy weapons for fear that they will get turned against them.
Heavier op weapons such as l6 SAW, Bullpup, etc have syndicate pins which only fire if the user has a syndicate weapon auth. implant.
Nuke Ops now start with weapon auth. implants instead of Explosive Implants. Explosive implants were added to prevent crew getting Op equipment, but it mostly failed at this as you could still strip an unconscious operative and you'd always get his gun since it wasn't equipped onto him.
They also destroy all hope of RP with the ops. In a poll that was ran, most people voted that they would attempt to capture Ops alive as a matter of prestige and to allow RP such as interrogations.
Explosive implants are now purchasable. They now have the same explosion as a blobbed welding tank -- It's smaller than the 11-crystal syndibomb but, of course it requires you to die for it to go off.