Revamp of ling, [DNM] for now

[ghost]

Absorbing and all sting powers are no longer purchasable
Tweaks a few existing ling powers to be more balanced
Ling armor blocks a tiny bit less of everything, slowdown reduced
Resonant shriek stuns people for a tiny bit of time for escapes or whatever.
Lings regenerate chemicals at a rate of 1 instead of 0.5
Removes the cap of DNA the ling could absorb, used to be 5, now is infinity.
Lings start off with 2 points for the evolution menu, instead of 10.

Adds a new system for acquiring genomes, essentially replaces absorbing
Aggressive grab someone, click yourself, bite for 15 damage and 0.5 chem points.
If they are down, click yourself again to rip out their appendix and eat it.
Eating an appendix grants you 2 evo points and genomes, 1 point if they have no appendix.
Eating another ling's appendix gives you their chems, genomes, and evo points.
New ling power, affects at melee range and has a very high chem cost.
AoE effect centered on yourself, stuns anyone in melee range for 5, whereas a baton does 7.
Adds myself to admins.txt

[RemieRichards]

if your intent is to remove the cap, the actually remove it.

[ghost]

I didn't even know I could, will do

[RemieRichards]

these would probably be better off as M.visible_message() since the subject of the message is M, not user.
so people who can see M but not user should be able to see it, unlike how it is now.

[phil235]

Actually using visible_message here is going to spam everyone with the message as many times as there are mobs around. If we want to keep the for(var/mob/living/M) stuff we need to use show_message(). It's not very elegant but the only other way would be to add a range argument to visible_message (and that's a lot of work).

[ghost]

If I have M.show_message(), will bystanders still be able to see it?

[phil235]

Oh wait, you want each mob in a 2 tile range to emit a message that bystanders will see? In that case visible_message is the right choice. But it will be a bit spammy if there's a lot of people in the range.

[Iamgoofball]

Hannibal Ling 👍

[RemieRichards]

Silence of the pete.

[Iamgoofball]

The shuttles have eyes

[RemieRichards]

Simplest one, "Black sheep"

[SconesC]

I honestly think this should get a title calling it a partial ling rework (Because it is one)

Also a forum thread would be good

Typo in OP, stunbatons last 7

Content looks cool though 👍

[AlexCrimson]

Absorbing is part of the fun of ling. If you want some kind of vicious melee alien that eats people, by all means make a new game mode for it.

[Incoming5643]

I don't get how you're claiming it doesn't remove players from the round when to gain points you have have to beat someone into crit and then cause 35 + 65 brute feeding. Unless someone is healing the victim in the middle of all this it's actually a kill every time.

And even if the damage wasn't enough to kill from crit, do you really think a ling is going to heal a victim out of it and just hope they're willing to play along and not scream for help?

[AlexCrimson]

I believe he means the husking mechanic from absorbing. Whereas this new ling would just be brute damage and a free appendix removal operation.

[Firecage]

Eh, I personally like being able to absorb people. Especially since it gives me access to their notes. So if they were a traitor with an unused PDA? Score.

Also, this kinda feels like you are FORCED to kill people for genomes and Evo points, kinda the opposite of what the title says. Kinda feels like old ling where you just absorb people for more points for more powers.

Besides. Removing all stings? THAT I dislike. Sometimes I enjoy playing a stealth ling which mutes and blinds other people. Other times I just like the general chaos of transforming everyone into the clown.

[Incoming5643]

since the "get (5,6,7) genomes" objective still exists the odds that you'll have to kill someone seem pretty much assured. That or you'd have to be very proactive with finding untouched corpses. If there were multiple lings who didn't want to murderbone (and given existing mindsets on ling play, there's probably a lot of these) it'd probably be impossible barring very high pop

[Firecage]

@AlexCrimson besides, the person has to be in crit to feed on the appendix. And what kinda crap antag would leave their target's body where it can be cloned, or heal it themselves? Since that almost guarantees their own death or arrest. Especially for lings it would mean gibbing or cremation if found. If anything, and I mean no offence @Man-Shroom This just seems like a worse version of Old ling(Or was it Old Old Ling?). Where you just kill people to gain more power, and remove people from the round permanently(since obviously you don't want the people cloned and teling everyone on you.)

[Profakos]

Doesn't the Extract DNA Sting do a better job of keeping people in the round?

[theOperand]

yeah this basically puts people out of the round permanently to get xp, which was one of the things that made oldling so shit.

[ghost]

This is VERY much a work still in progress, and you all raise valid points which I mean to address. This should probably get a DNM merge tag for a few weeks while I try to fix the problems that you've pointed out.

[Supermichael777]

HUGBOX LING also apendixburgers would need to give evo points

[PKPenguin321]

This is pretty bizarre and I don't see why we need to change it. Some of the rebalances for existing powers are alright, but the rest has me scratching my head a little bit.
also, it's literally "murder/severely injure someone for points that allow you to more easily murder/severely injure," which I thought was a big no no in coderbus

[ghost]

Appendii do give evolution points.

[Kromgar]

Why the appendix? Why not just make an organ called a gene seed or something? Because powergamers could just remove their appendix and shit. Also... mass cloning appendixes is... possible

[ghost]

I may remove the appendix shit and just have the ling rip and tear at your guts

[GunHog]

I would like this: #689 to have a reconsideration. Being able to absorb someone's mind into you once you vore them is better than permanently removing them from the round (which, as stated by others, is required of them to avoid being hunted down).

Ling rounds tend to drag on for hours, which makes death considerably more painful than other, shorter roundtypes. At the very least, let the ling carry them around like organic pAIs or something. The victim can always ghost.

[AKlimentyev]

This honestly seems like you are trying to push a certain way of playing ling, the murder everyone in maint option. Things such as the DNA transformation sting can create a lot of fun gimmicks, DNA extract keeps players in the round, and cryosting was the one thing that was basically ggnore for a ninja. The alternate absorbtion honestly seems like it would keep players out of the round even more, since bodies would be cloned easier, thereby leading lings to hide bodies even more.
Ling does need to be changed, but I think that this is the wrong way of going about it.

[RocKeD]

This is just my opinion of course but I'm not a fan of these changes. The changeling is not a changeling anymore its more like a cannibal that eats people's appendixes (wtf). If this were to be merged, I agree with SconesC that a forum thread should be made first as this is a huge game-play change.

[ghost]

I'm closing this until after the freeze for several reasons.

1. People have raised several valid points about balance, so I will be trying to solve their issues.
2. The freeze.
3. People seem to be misinformed/have the wrong idea/straight up don't know what I'm trying to change, so I'm gonna make a forum thread with all my ideas and plans laid down.
4. Clean up my code, like jesus I am bad at this.

This ain't dead, just KO'd for a little while.

[Robustin]

"yeah this basically puts people out of the round permanently to get xp, which was one of the things that made oldling so shit."

I don't see think I've ever seen anything so wrong in my life. I couldn't come up with a more incorrect statement if I tried.

The most vilified Ling change in the history of SS13 was the neutering oldling. Lings had almost 0 offensive capability and would routinely get robusted by assistants with extinguishers/toolboxes/stunprods. Ling was extended and extended was like being dead from roundstart.

The station needs antagonists who antagonize them. There is currently almost no reason for lings to kill anyone beyond perhaps one target if their objective demands it. There's a solid chance their target will go braindead or die of other causes. You currently have rounds with 60+ players, and among the small ling team, 50% will typically be unrobust and never attempt any over hostile action or will do so and fail dramatically (like whipping out an armblade on camera), the other 50% will only kill when necessary and you typically only need to kill one person. So at the end of the round you have an bodycount from antags that might as well be a rounding error.

Armblades were much needed for lings, but they are still too few and too docile to make for an effective antagonist on high-pop stations. It's absurd that we keep trying to make antags who don't take people out of the round, I'd much rather be a ghost/protobrain/golem/drone in an exciting around with aggressive antags and frequent action than sitting in the primary hall where nothing has happened for 30 minutes and I kill myself out of boredom.

[Dorsisdwarf]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. I don't care about dying, every antag wants to kill somebody at least, that's the whole point.
(except eventites)

[AlexCrimson]

Changeling, like Abductor, should be a side-antag that has a chance to spawn in most round rather than have a dedicated game mode. Would make it a much more interesting role imo. Imagine a Nuke Ops round in which a ling gets greentext without even being noticed, leaving everyone confused at round end.

[theOperand]

i had a very elaborate argument typed here, but then i saw that oldman's argument is basically just "oldling was good, newling is shit" and had no actual arguments for this new newling.

oldling was shit and newling is equally shit, maybe a bit worse, maybe a bit better. maybe ling should've been removed altogether instead of making it into newling.

shadowling fills the niche i thought up for ling but which i was too lazy to code.
the only real option i see for ling is as a side-antag with a ton of disguise abilities.

[leibniztg]

"I would like this: #689 to have a reconsideration. Being able to absorb someone's mind into you once you vore them is better than permanently removing them from the round (which, as stated by others, is required of them to avoid being hunted down)."

I agree with GunHog.
Internal hivemind would have been a brilliant addition and a clear improvement, and it is a shame that it was buried and forgotten.

edit: Also, what if changelings were made powerful and monstrous, but changed (back) to a solo antag? (excluding traitorchan in which it has distant company)
That way, only one player would be taking out others from the round (and they could choose to be part of the personal hivemind (or be drones or whatever)).