Please revert to old, pre v5.400, app icon!

[gcalzo]

The new icon is really ugly, please give us back to old one! ...at least let the user decide between the two!

Why it has been changed?

[mikeloeven]

Seconded. I get that everything is going material now a days but this really looks like a MS Paint doodle.

[gcalzo]

...I found where, more than one year ago, someone where talking about the new icon with a few examples...
I bet it's too late for voting... :(
#1723

[gcalzo]

I have found an older, closed issue about the same request with a very simple answer... :-(
#2834

[Krzmbrzl]

Is this (partly) about the background of the icon being pink? If so I wholehartedly support the reverting!

[gcalzo]

Well, a less "shocking" red could help... -- Ciao, Giangi Inviato da MotoG5 plus con K-9 Mail.

…

-------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: Raven <notifications@github.com> Inviato il: 29 dicembre 2017 19:31:53 CET A: k9mail/k-9 <k-9@noreply.github.com> Cc: gcalzo <giangi@gcalzo.net>, Author <author@noreply.github.com> Oggetto: Re: [k9mail/k-9] Please revert to old, pre v5.400, app icon! (#2998) Is this (partly) about the background of the icon being pink? If so I wholehartedly support the reverting!

-- You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #2998 (comment)

[felfert]

I second that. I love the old filigrane icon. The new one is ugly.

[korelstar]

I'm using this app because of its features and not because of its icon. I don't really like the new one, but @cketti has chosen it for this version, so let's accept it. :-)

[gcalzo]

IMHO a poll would let us express our opinion... -- Ciao, Giangi Inviato da MotoG5 plus con K-9 Mail.

…

-------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: korelstar <notifications@github.com> Inviato il: 29 dicembre 2017 21:49:20 CET A: k9mail/k-9 <k-9@noreply.github.com> Cc: gcalzo <giangi@gcalzo.net>, Author <author@noreply.github.com> Oggetto: Re: [k9mail/k-9] Please revert to old, pre v5.400, app icon! (#2998) I'm using this app because of its features and not because of its icon. I don't really like the new one, but @cketti has chosen it for this version, so let's accept it. :-)

-- You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #2998 (comment)

[kq01526]

The icon presented by @moctodot in #1723 looks much better.

[cketti]

I'm leaving this issue open for a little while longer so people who feel the need to voice their opinion will find it and not open new issues.
However, this won't change the decision. The app icon won't be replaced with the old icon.

[najgorsza-zmiana]

Yes, the icon is depressingly ugly. Whoever designed it has absolutely no idea about visual design and seriously lacks in good taste. It feels as if someone just defecated on one of my favorite apps.

As the owners seem to be deaf to the voice of the - more aesthetically discerning - public (and I find this unwillingness to react quite childish), there is a workaround. Use an app such as Icon Changer or Awesome Icons to create a shortcut with the old icon. You will still have to face the kitschy horror when using the app, but at least your desktop will remain unpolluted.

[edit] Here is a png with transparent background, which can be used for the replacement mentioned above: http://lh6.ggpht.com/4nAIkTwY8Zmo3Vt1XPNXWH3_YVXj9muHfLyLjuT9LUHIxSgiC_RTHFl9PSPqwhAuFW7l=w300

[gcalzo]

So, stated that a new icon in "Material" design is mandatory and the old one won't be restored, I suggest to open a real poll with (as far as I know) the only two possibile replacement icons:

• the current v5.400 (from @bertob Suggestion: Material Icon #1723 (comment))
• the one from @moctodot Suggestion: Material Icon #1723 (comment)

Personally I vote for the second one!
I may eventually accept the first one if the red will be darker!

[najgorsza-zmiana]

+1 for the second (@moctodot) icon.

[DavidGriffith]

Perhaps we could have some mechanism for changing the icon from within the app's settings menus?

[Krzmbrzl]

I don't have any problem with the icon itself. Just the background is absolutely horrible

[unitblocks]

Please revert to old icon or give users a choice. The new icon is ugly and obnoxious. It looks like you sold out to T-mobile.

[unitblocks]

@moctodot better than the new logo.

@bertob complete failure, other than worshipping the false gods of bad UI. The K-9 portion of the image is so burdened by the hot-pink envelope that is does not communicate K-9 and omits the original Doctor Who reference. The pink chosen causes confusion in the marketplace with T-mobile's default email offerings. K-9 is a user install, not a default app.

[Rhialto]

I hate the new icon too!

First I had a Doctor Who themed mail program. Now I have some stupid dog themed mail program. And I'm a cat person.
I want the old icon back!

[bunk3m]

Adding my $0.02.

I was surprised by the ugly new icon this morning. Usually I couldn't care less about this but it got to me enough that I came here.

I'd prefer the @moctodot icon or the old icon.

I understand that it had to change due to the material UI requirements but isn't it possible to just adjust the old icon to fit the new requirements rather than completely change it?

[mikeloeven]

Pretty much my reaction to the new icon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDXrXBsTFSE

[bheiserman]

@cketti I appreciate the work you do, but changing the visual interface is a big deal and shouldn't be blown off.

I hate the new icon so much, I joined GitHub to comment and to actively participate in the project, because I actively use and love this app.

How do I get you to either revert the icon or add a menu preference to revert for the users that despise the new icon?

I'll even see if I can figure out how to cobble together the coffee to do it if you're unwilling to entertain reverting the icon.

[ctgraham]

+1, for reference, the PR appears to be here: https://github.com/k9mail/k-9/pull/2082/files

[Meteor0id]

I am ok with the new icon, clearly shows this is about email, not about dogs. But hey, give these people an option in settings. everyone happy? Just use the new icon in appstores etc. and as default icon

[najgorsza-zmiana]

Agree re: option to select icon / revert to old icon in global settings. The latter is a matter of adding a checkbox in the GUI and a couple of if/else statements.

[katonagl]

The new icon is ugly, please bring back the old one. Why do you have to change sg which is just fine? Spend time on other features or just go and have a beer instead.

[ChristianKreuzberger]

The old icon was better

[dhwalker]

+1 for providing an option to use the old icon.

[Rhialto]

I forked the repository and added a couple of new branches which follow master and 5.4-MAINT, but with the icons reverted. I have uploaded a custom build as well: https://github.com/Rhialto/k-9/releases/tag/rhialto-5.4-MAINT-002 that Travis CI made for me (I didn't want to set up an Android build environment right now).

[allo-]

The google play comments are a quite clear poll. I think by reverting you will get quite a few stars back ;-).
Personally I use a mail program for its function, but I must say the icon is very ugly and dominates the home screen, while the old one looked really nice and more decent.
In general material design isn't the last word in design, to say the least.

[allo-]

@philipwhiuk Right, it is and it should be your design. You may be open to suggestions, but you may reject them. That's it. Things like a survey in the app or an icon choose are non-features for the app itself.

But there is one thing to take from this thread: There is a lot of negative feedback on the general direction of the current new icon. I think nobody needs to have his favourite icon to be happy with the app. Hey, we all have many apps with icons we may not like that much.

But when so many people come here to complain, it is a sign to do something. This may be anything which improves some of the points people are complaining about. I do not know what actually is the part which would make the difference, but I think there are probably some small changes which would improve the icon a lot for most people here.

That said, I am not able to give real constructive feedback for another new icon. I can tell that I dislike this one, but I do not know enough about design to tell what are the small changes which would make it nice. When I should guess, I would play with the color and make it look more like a dog again.

This said, thank you for the good work on the app!

[xerz-one]

OK, so I've just found out the new icon and read all of this thread. I know you already have a lot of input on it and nobody asked for my opinion, but I think I can still give some feedback, according to my subjective and unskilled designer thoughts.

• The new icon feels like an improvement to me overall. It's more simple and visual, it fits the Material guidelines, it looks like a mail program. It does its job.
• I don't think it's perfect, however. I don't think you should revert to the original icon, but you could as well try something like @moctodot's icon. In particular, I think the flap's border looks too thin, and the overall envelope looks a little too big.
• The biggest specific complaint I've read is the use of "pink". Really? Is it too bright or girlish for your taste? It actually is still a tone of red, and not only it accurately fits the Material guidelines, it's quite an unique choice and a more welcoming and playful tone than going full red. Keep in mind this is my opinion, but I think it's a lot better than the original red tone. Also pink is not trademarked by T-Mobile, the company is not everywhere and their pink is actually quite different from K-9's logo.
• The other biggest specific complaint is that it's not fully resembling anymore K-9 from Doctor Who. I not only feel like that's not necessary – just stop and think about it for a second. It's still a metallic dog with antenna ears and red(-ish) eyes. The name of the app is still K-9. You can interpret something in many ways, you don't have to stick with an exact carbon copy.
• I think most people who dislike it do so not because of the logo itself, but because of its appearance at the top bar. Honestly, I don't like it there at all. It's way too large, obtrusive, looks vastly different from the rest of the current Holo design – and the overall bar has some weird margins and alignments. The best solution to "fix" the icon would be to put it in a fitting interface, IMHO.

[x2k13]

@espectalll
For the Telekom part, you're wrong. Telekom has copyright on a certain trademark/color: Magenta.
And the "pink" might be too similar to that.

Apart from that I'd vote for just a simplified version of the old logo/icon, 3D style but less detail and a certain color palette, just as the material guidelines recommend, including pixel rounded icon so compatible launchers can use that for respecting design standards.

[mikeloeven]

Pretty sure you can't copyright an entire color and if you could that copyright/ trademark can only be enforced if said color is being used in relation to the owners logo or other Intelectual Property.

[unitblocks]

Copying the instantly recognizable color scheme and style to be confusingly similar is called "trade dress infringement."

Although the new icon uses T-mobiles distinctive color scheme (I raised the point above), I think highly unlikely that T-mobile would issue a cease and desist order unless K-9 started providing telecommunication services.

[bperrybap]

@mikeloeven
It isn't about copyright, it is trademark and yes Tmobile does have a valid & active trademark on the "Tmobile" color with respect to telecommunication services.

@unitblocks
but.... email could potentially be considered a "telecommunication service".
Also, IMO, the new icon is so simplified, that at least to me it is unrecognisable as a "dog" unless you knew what it was before. So I could see how things could get potentially tangled up in that it could be argued that since the icon uses a color that while it is not the exact Tmobile color, it is very close to the Tmobile color, that to the uninformed/casual user/observer, it may appear to be a Tmobile provided email application and email could be considered a Tmobile telecommunication service just like T-mobile's Visual Voicemail. or Tmobile TV etc...

[bperrybap]

Here is a link to more information: https://trademarks.justia.com/787/98/n-78798428.html
Notice the mark includes broader uses including telecommunication and technology services like "two-way wireless transmission of electronic mail, text and images between mobile telecommunications terminals and computers"
Which would appear to cover an email application like k9.

[xerz-one]

Hmm, that does look like a trademark on magenta for telecommunications... 🤔

I did get that wrong, sorry. But my point overall stands – besides, K-9 is not using magenta, so we shouldn't get C&D's anytime soon.

[shanghaiknight]

You all are out of your mind.

#1, it is NOT the same color
#2 it is NOT used as the background as stated in the trademark filing.
#3 even if it was used in the background as stated, the color in K9 is still a different color.

[philipwhiuk]

#4 Suing an open source project looks terrible
#5 We don't have any income anyway
#6 we would just change it

[bperrybap]

@shanghaiknight you seem to not quite grasp that things don't have to be identical be an issue.
It only matters if they are close enough that a reasonable person might be mislead or confused into believing that the image represents a product from the company with the trademark.
And that is something that often gets argued in court.

I can't speak for the others, but on my Galaxy S4 with auto brightness enabled (which creates a bit dimmer screen) and when using the default Galaxy S4 sky blue background, the colors appear quite similar. It is obviously a slightly different color when comparing the k9 icon side by side to that of a an actual Tmobile icon, but when just looking at the K9 icon, it is difficult to tell that the k9 is a different color from the Tmobile color using nothing but the memory of the Tmobile color.

And that is what can create issues. There can be a perception that the color is the Tmobile color even though it isn't. And it is the perception that matters since it could confuse people into believing/thinking that the product is a tmobile product.

@philipwhiuk
I have been in the middle of several patent lawsuits - which are somewhat similar.
Sometimes, it doesn't matter about the money. You have to defend your trademark/patent rights or you can end up losing them. So in some cases it isn't about trying to crush the infringer but rather a defense of your rights to make sure that they are not lost or challenged by someone else in the future. i.e. if you don't rigorously defend your rights at some point in the future a challenger could claim that you abandoned your rights since you have not defended them.

I'm still trying to figure out why a color similar to the tmobile color was selected anyway.
The older icon had a much more red color on the envelop. The change to the bright pinkish/magenta color was quite jarring - at least to me.
Wherever the k9 icon ends up going, I'd recommend picking a color further away from the tombile color for the envelop to avoid any potential issues.

[mikeloeven]

Pretty sure the K9 logo is not confusingly similar to any T-Mobile product

[shanghaiknight]

@bperrybap Seriously, get off this silly argument.

The Color of the Envelope is: ff3158 255,49,88 and classified as "VIVID RED"

The Color of TMobile is: #ff009f 255,0,159 is classified as "Magenta"

Look at the colors, look at the color profiles, look at the percentage of the color make up.. It is completely different! Not anywhere near the same!

We have a greater chance of Heinz suing K9 because K9 is the exact color of ketchup, than T mobile suing K9.

[big-ant]

But nice try though ;-) Am 26. Januar 2018 21:46:22 MEZ schrieb shanghaiknight <notifications@github.com>:

…

@bperrybap Seriously, get off this silly argument. you don't seem to grasp these two colors have NOTHING in comon.  The Color of the Envelope is: ff3158 255,49,88 and classified as "VIVID RED"  The Color of TMobile is: #ff009f 255,0,159 is classified as "Magenta"  Look at the colors, look at the color profiles, look at the percentage of the color make up.. It is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! NOT ANYWHERE NEAR THE SAME! We have a greater chance of Heinz suing K9 because K9 is the EXACT color of ketchup, than T mobile suing K9. -- You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: #2998 (comment)

[bperrybap]

Guys,
I never said that the colors were the same color. They obviously are not.
However on a an actual phone, when looking at the k9 icon, at least on my galaxy S4 phone particularly when the brightness is automatically controlled and with the sky blue background, the color appears to be reminiscent of the tmobile color.
The "pink" icon color on my phone is a lot less red than what shows up on my computer monitor
Now if you put the k9 icon right next to a tmobile icon on the actual phone, you can see that there is a difference but they still do look a bit similar. And because of this, in the absence of seeing them both together, the k9 color reminds me of the tmobile color.
Now I have noticed that the colors do diverge a bit more when the brightness is cranked way up but even then the color still reminds me of the tombile color.

Maybe it is due to the color accuracy and saturations on the Samsung OLED screen but from some of the other comments in this thread, I'm not the only one that is reminded of the tomobile color.

@mikeloeven it isn't necessarily that the icon would be confused with an existing T-mobile product but rather that people might see the icon and assume that it was a product by/from T-mobile.

As a very unscientific single point of reference, my wife looked at the k9 icon (having never seen it or the old k9 icon before). She didn't recognize it as being a dog and without any prompting thought the color was the tmobile color.

Stuff like this this is a very subject thing and like I said it is often argued in the courts.

[unitblocks]

The easiest way to get this icon reverted would be to ask T-mobile's intellectual property attorneys their opinion on whether the new icon infringes on their trade dress.

; )

[bperrybap]

This is actually quite difficult to photograph but this kind of shows what I'm talking about.
To my eye, the colors on the actual phone screen are much more vibrant, and the whites are whiter, but the pink/magenta color tones used in each of the icons are about the same.
Can you tell they are different? Sure, especially when you see them both together.
But when not seeing them together, the k9 icon color reminds me of the tmobile color.

@unitblocks
I totally agree.

[bperrybap]

Still think I'm crazy?
Here is a real life lawsuit. Take a look at the colors. To me, they are even further apart than the current k9 icon color is from the Tmobile color.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/02/08/t-mobile-wins-lawsuit-against-atts-aio-wireless-for-magenta-trademark-infringement/

Take note of John Legere's comment:

... we fight for our brand color

And that is a great example of what I was talking about earlier where you have to vigorously defend your trademarks/patents.

[x2k13]

Calm down guys, there's nothing wrong with a civilized discussion, just don't jump on one another for no good reason.

Anyway, I asked someone who's not familiar with K9 Mail at all about the logo and got this response: "what's that supposed to be? a robot with weird eyes and a wheel underneath?" They didn't even recognize the "mail" reference.

To me, that's a clear sign the the logo design should be reconsidered as such, given the fact that non-nerd people don't even get what the logo actually means. My 2 Cents...

[shanghaiknight]

@bperrybap I believe @unitblocks was being sarcastic.

AIO is a wireless carrier. It makes sense not to use "Plum" next to "Magenta"

The colors look totally different, totally different industries. Again, drop it. Get tested for color-blindness, and maybe get a new phone. S4 is woefully out of security updates.

Verisign uses a much more similar color to TMobile - and I think they'd be much more likely to be sued.

Other apps with similar reds to TMobile: Scanbot, firefox focus, WPS Office, wehearit, justalk, appear.in, grammar (ocoder), wheretoget, insightly, Crew, Mobile@work

Other TECH companies with similar reds to K-9: VErizon, XFinity, Opera, Nintendo, McAfee, Sandisk, Oracle, Sisco, Gaia, Jujitsu, Adobe, RedBack, Pintrest, Dish, Lastpass, Mixlr, ADP, Anydesk

Really, I think we're safe here.

[philipwhiuk]

@bperrybap Even on that screen it's more similar to the red in the Google logo. The Google Mail envelope is a close red to ours. We aren't changing the colour because it's similar to T-Mobile on a screen with an extremely limited palette and poor contrast. End. If we make it darker it'll be because it looks better.

@x2k13 The original logo was even less clearly identifiable as an email. The current one is more envelope, less dog. Given we are called 'K-9' we are unlikely to the drop the robot dog bit. Few names and logos obviously portray meaning - "Apple" is a fruit for example - and the logo isn't a computer.

Right now we have 3 material-ish options submitted, the current one, mocdot's and juliakorbut's. If you legitimately have what you think is a better design, feel free to put it on #1723 If you want it darker, provide a PR / attachment with a darker icon. Personally I have other priorities.

[x2k13]

@philipwhiuk
No offence meant. I already made a proposal a few posts earlier. In sense of design, I think K9 (canine, dog) and email (dog fetch mail) is basically a perfect concept. Straightforward, which is good.

[unitblocks]

I'm not being sarcastic. I am being humorous.

I am, in good humor, pointing out that someone can force this ugly new logo to be changed by reporting trade dress infringement to the right T-mobile intellectual property attorneys.

Of course, K-9's legally astute developers might already have contacted T-mobile to enter into a licensing agreement (for a meaningless percent of sales or an equally meaningless cross-licensing agreement) so that T-mobile defends its trade dress on paper and it costs K-9 developers nothing (but their pride and the indignity of having this logo on their product).

@bperrybap @shanghaiknight As you see, I can be cheeky and accurate at the same time.

[bperrybap]

@unitblocks , I get it. And it is pretty funny...

[matt-matt2]

My only complaint about the new icon is at first glance I had no clue what it was. The envelope dominates and the k9 bits disappear into the background. Now I recognised it again it's just an icon. Not my favourite but..

[Grunthos]

@cketti I get you made a design decision to update the icnon. I'm in the "I hate it camp", but I accept that this is highly subjective.

Is there any chance that you could do the following:

• create a new Android Widget that uses the old icon, and starts the app when clicked; then I can remove the app icon from the home screen and add the old-style widget.

• define two app themes (using old and new icons) so that the icons in all of the activities were based on the old one based on a setting in preferences

This would make me very happy because I would once again be able to upgrade the app.

[srkunze]

I like the new icon. It doesn't look like a Terminator dog anymore. 👍👍

In the future, I could think of an even more streamlined version, stressing the mail aspect even more.

Great work anyway.

[unitblocks]

Ugly icon persists. Still not fixed.