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Raid Contribution Shortcut #4060

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where-fore opened this issue Nov 22, 2023 · 2 comments
Open

Raid Contribution Shortcut #4060

where-fore opened this issue Nov 22, 2023 · 2 comments

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@where-fore
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where-fore commented Nov 22, 2023

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.
Hemorrhage is an unfortunately complicated debuff to model - the charges get used at a rate that depends on your raid size, and the damage contribution of those charges depends on the armor penetration, crit multiplier, and other arbitrary stats, of the actor who consumed the charge. This makes it impossible to correctly model in an individual simulation, and is the main ability for a Sub Rogue, so requires Sub Rogues to use a full blown raid sim to get perfect results.

Fortunately, perfect modeling of the Hemo contribution is not completely required for all simulation usage, so we have done a shorthand estimation for the amount of damage it contributes so users can use the individual simulation tool, which is obviously much easier for regular usage. If you simply multiply our estimated contribution from theoretical understanding, by the number of Hemorrhage casts, you get a good estimate that's fine enough for everyday usage.

This means a user of the individual Sub simulation has to run a simulation, open up a calculator or spreadsheet and multiply their Hemo casts by a number they'd have to figure out on their own or through another Rogue resource, and then add that back into their dps figure, all manually.

We don't include raid contribution into personal dps for other abilities, like Tricks of the Trade, and we shouldn't do that for Hemo either, for consistency. Unfortunately, the contribution of some of these abilities depends on the choices you make in the sim, such as Glyphing Tricks or Hemo, so users are currently advised to add them back in manually if that contribution is important to their work.

It would be nice if there was a section under results that included a shortcut for the theoretical understanding we already use outside the sim, to save advanced users a step in their work - or to illuminate regular users that their raid contribution is not default included, and they should consider whether they want to add it for their current simulation work.

@jimmyt857
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@where-fore Could this be implemented as an option like, "Hemo Procs per Second"?

@where-fore
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where-fore commented Dec 19, 2023

@jimmyt857 Hmm not sure what that would solve - I believe you are asking if we can add a hardcode option of "hemos per second" with a default that users can also change, that would add dps to the personal sim? This sounds similar to simply adding a contribution that multiplies a given value by the amount of hemos the sim actually cast - no need to hardcode a "hemos per second" when the sim reports how many hemos it cast per second. This doesn't solve our issue though:

Right now, if someone wanted to figure out if a talent/glyph/tier set/rotation was better, and any of those options affect your raid contribution through things like Hemorrhage Glyph or Filthy Tricks Talent, they would get incorrect results from the individual simulation tool. They would need to know that they would have to set up the entire raid sim, or use a shortcut that theorycrafting communities have agreed is close enough for individual simulation use.

This comes up very frequently specifically with Subtlety rogues, since they are off meta so lots of experimentation with glyphs and talents is expected - but also comes up often enough with, say a new tier set giving a Rupture bonus and the inevitable "Should I drop Tricks of the Trade glyph for Rupture glyph on my Mutilate rogue?" question arrives.

I would recommend either:

  • Some sort of warning when a raid dps talent (can be hardcode flagged which triggers this warning) is active/removed, so users know to take the results with a grain of salt or use the raid simulation tool. Maybe even just update the tooltips on those raid dps options with some bright red text saying "UNMODELED IN INDIVIDUAL SIMULATIONS" or similar.
  • In the results tab including a breakdown of expected raid dps contribution from these choices using shortcuts from the theorycrafting community, with the option to add to the personal dps output or simply leave as extra information in the results tab

The long term goal here is assuming that many classes in many situations will have many options that have obscured results from the simple dps readout, and some sort of framework for warning users what is and is not modeled would be useful.

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