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19020605_reps_1_10.xml
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19020605_reps_1_10.xml
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<hansard xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<session.header>
<date>1902-06-05</date>
<parliament.no>1</parliament.no>
<session.no>1</session.no>
<period.no>0</period.no>
<chamber>REPS</chamber>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<proof>0</proof>
</session.header>
<chamber.xscript>
<para class="block">HouseofRepresentatives. </para>
<business.start>
<day.start>1902-06-05</day.start>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Speaker</inline>took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers. </para>
</business.start>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>NAVAL DEFENCE</title>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JR7</name.id>
<electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BONYTHON, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir LANGDON BONYTHON</name>
</talker>
<para>- In this morning's Melbourne <inline font-style="italic">Age</inline> it is reported that it is proposed to create a new department to take control of the naval defences of the Commonwealth. I wish to know from the Minister representing the Minister for Defence what truth there is in that report. 8ir WILLIAM LYNE.- This is the first that I have heard of the matter. I think the report must refer to a casual remark of mine - that I thought that there should bo one department for the control of our naval defences, instead of a department in each State, as there is at 'the present time. I do not know whether it will be possible to deal with that matter at present, or whether it will have to remain in abeyance; but I think the present arrangement a bad one. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>METEOROLOGICAL DEPARTMENT</title>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFK</name.id>
<electorate>DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND</electorate>
<party>PROT; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; IND from 1931; UAP from 1934</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GROOM, Littleton</name>
<name role="display">Mr L E GROOM</name>
</talker>
<para>- I should like to know from the Minister representing the Prime Minister, what is the present position in regard to the negotiations with respect to taking over the Meteorological department of Queensland? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate>BALLAARAT, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Attorney-General</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I have despatched a telegram to the Premier of Queensland, informing him that the Government consent to the temporary arrangement suggested by him in connexion with the tentative proposal which he has submitted to the Premiers of the other States. It involves upon our part the continuance of the telegraphic and postal facilities which the Queensland bureau has hitherto enjoyed. I hope the House will shortly have an opportunity to consider this and similar concessions when dealing with the Postal RatesBill. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>REMISSION OF FODDER DUTIES</title>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13350</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JZF</name.id>
<electorate>ILLAWARRA, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FULLER, George</name>
<name role="display">Mr FULLER</name>
</talker>
<para>- Is the Minister representing the Postmaster-General prepared to make an announcement in connexion with the suggested remission of the duties upon fodder? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I hope to have an interview with the Attorney-General of New South Wales this afternoon, and afterwards to be able to make an announcement to the House upon the subject. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>NEW SOUTH WALES NAVAL FORCES</title>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>DQC</name.id>
<electorate>WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">HUGHES, William Morris</name>
<name role="display">Mr HUGHES</name>
</talker>
<para>- Has the Minister for Home Affairs arrived at any determination, and if so what, in regard to the naval forces of New South Wales ? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate>HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I have not com.pleted the new proposals, but their preparation is far advanced, and they will show some retrenchment. I cannot, however, give the honorable member any details, because the scheme is not so complete that it may not be slightly altered. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>SUPPLIES FOR SOUTH AFRICA</title>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KCO</name.id>
<electorate>SOUTH AUSTRALIA, SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GLYNN, Patrick</name>
<name role="display">Mr GLYNN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Yesterday the Minister for Home Affairs, in reply to questions asked by the honorable members for South Australia, <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Langdon</inline> Bonython and <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. V.</inline> L. Solomon, stated that the prices for supplies for South Africa asked by South Australian tenderers were much higher than those asked by Victorian tenderers. I forwarded to South . Australia the following letter which I received from the department upon the subject : - </para>
</talk.start>
<para>I am directed to inform yon that in connexion with some recent South Australian tenders for supplies, to the South African contingents, the attention of the Minister has been called to the very high rates for some of the articles as compared with the prices paid in other States. The reply I have received from a South Australian merchant is as follows - </para>
<para>Bunning down through the schedules published in the <inline font-style="italic">Commonwealth</inline><inline font-style="italic">Gazette,</inline> we are forced to the conclusion that the very reverse is the case, and that South Australian prices are very much lower than the Melbourne prices. Would you ask the Minister for Defence if he would kindly compare the price of bandoliers here and in Melbourne V The price of sets of saddlery here and in Melbourne. On the rates which are higher, for instance,, kit bags and section bags, our contract for supplies in the colony of this line is only 2s. 9d. for kit bags, whereas kit bags for Queensland were 5s. 6d., and Victoria 4s. each. The kit bags supplied to the contingents were different to the ordinary kit bags, in that they were made of tan canvas, water-proof lined. The one line costing us 6s. a yard for material, and the other under ls. There were no standard samples to which to tender for these lines. Horse blankets were made specially good quality at !)s. 6d., and were cheap at the price, whereas those supplied to the Victorian contingent were 38 a 2 of quite different material altogether. Victoria charged 6s. each for her head ropes, South Australia's price was ls. lid. So on with many other lines we could reply to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Collins'</inline> unfair remarks. The only line in which there were standard samples to tender to, and on which there is any comparison between both colonies, was the sets of saddlery. Even in these our price was lower than Victoria; we have a good reply to it if the question ever arises in the House. </para>
<para class="block">Has the Minister any reply to make to these statements ? If they are true, should he not modify what he said yesterday in regard to the two sets of prices, after a bald comparison of the prices themselves without regard to quality or other explanation ? </para>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I cannot come <inline font-style="italic">Vo</inline> any conclusion immediately, from the figures which the honorable and learned member has read out, but the information which has been supplied to me on the subject is as follows </para>
</talk.start>
<para>With reference to the contracts submitted from South Australia, in connexion with the Australian Commonwealth Horse, I would call attention to the very big prices of some of the articles compared with the prices at which they could be purchased in this State - </para>
<para class="block">
<graphic href="010331190206050_1_0.jpg" />
</para>
<para>Apparently, rifle buckets (which, it was understood, it was not necessary to supply, and which were not supplied in Victoria) were supplied at 7s. each. </para>
<para>These very large prices compared with the prices here must involve Imperial Government in a considerably increased expenditure. </para>
<para class="block">Upon that I wrote the following minute : - </para>
<para>The difference between the South Australian and Victorian prices is very considerable, and in many cases the South Australian charges "arc exorbitant. I think they should have been referred to head-quarters before acceptance. </para>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13351</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KCO</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GLYNN, Patrick</name>
<name role="display">Mr GLYNN</name>
</talker>
<para>- In view of the discrepancy between the statement which I have read and the document quoted by the Minister, will he inquire fully, not only into the prices asked, but also in regard to the quality of the articles supplied, and the general conditions regarding the tenders, and put fully before the House the true position of affairs 1 </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- There may be some difficulty in obtaining information as to the quality of the articles supplied, because they have been sent away from the State, but I shall make further inquiries. The document which I have read is the only one which has been laid before me. It is an official paper, and no doubt compiled from the actual price-lists in the possession of the Defence department. ' </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KCO</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GLYNN, Patrick</name>
<name role="display">Mr GLYNN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Although there may be some difficulty in testing the comparative prices of the goods in relation to their qualities, will the Minister do all in his power to test the fairness of the comparisons which have been made on his official list from the point of view of quality as well as price. In the letter which has been sent to me, it is stated that the kit bags and horse blankets which appear on the Minister's list as being supplied at higher prices were quoted at lower prices in the South Australian tender than in the other States, while the quality of the horse blankets supplied under the South Australian contract is stated to be much better than that of those supplied by <inline font-style="italic">the</inline> Victorian tenderers. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I shall do all I <can to test whether the articles supplied under the South Australian contract were of better quality than the Victorian articles for which prices were quoted. At the same time, I may say that from the experience I have had in the past the articles supplied by the Victorian manufacturers are fairly good. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<para class="block">-COMMONWEALTH STATUTES. </para>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KHC</name.id>
<electorate>NORTHERN MELBOURNE, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">HIGGINS, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Mr HIGGINS</name>
</talker>
<para>- Will the Minister representing the PrimeMinister make arrangements to supply the public with copies of the Commonwealth statutes at a price no higher than is necessary to pay the expenses in connexion with their publication <inline font-style="italic">1</inline> It has been the practice of the Victorian Government to make a profit out of the sale of public statutes, but I think that is a mistake. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I think that what the honorable and learned member desires is being done. I had recently an interview with the Government Printer, during which he suggested a scale of charges, commencing I think, at 3d. an Act, and increasing according to bulk. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KHC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">HIGGINS, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Mr Higgins</name>
</talker>
<para>- Copies of Victorian Acts cost from ls. 6d. to 5s. each. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I do not think that any of the Commonwealth statutes will cost more than ls. 6d. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>MEXICAN AND GREEK IMMIGRANTS</title>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8L</name.id>
<electorate>BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMAS, Josiah</name>
<name role="display">Mr THOMAS</name>
</talker>
<para>- I desire to ask the Minister representing the Prime Minister, <inline font-style="italic">without</inline><inline font-style="italic">notice,</inline> whether he has noticed a report -which appeared in the newspapers of yesterday that certain Mexican and Greek immigrants were prevented from entering New South Wales at Albury <inline font-style="italic">1.</inline> The report states - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>When the express reached Albury the Customs officers refused to let the foreigners land in New South Wales, and the whole batch, numbering 38, were taken back to Wodonga by the train which brought them over. No accommodation could be seemed for them for the night, so they camped the best way they could in the vicinity o£ the Wodonga railway station. Rain fell during the night, but the platform afforded shelter. The difficulty reached an acute stage this morning, when one of the women became unwell. A room at the station was placed at her disposal, and a few hours later she gave birth to a daughter. </para>
</quote>
<para class="block">I should like to know whether the report is correct, and if so, why these people were allowed to land in Melbourne. If 'it were right to allow them to land in Melbourne why were the)' prevented from entering New South Wales <inline font-style="italic">1</inline> I should also like to know whether, in the event of any further immigrants of a similar character being permitted to land here, the Minister will do all in his power to prevent a repetition of barbarity such as that referred to ? </para>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- The Commonwealth Government are responsible for allowing these people to land in Melbourne. Hearing that they had arrived, I arranged to secure the services of the most experienced officer in Charge of immigration affairs - <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. O'Brien</inline> - who subjected the intending settlers to a very severe test, and was entirely satisfied. In view, however, of the reports in the newspapers as to the undesirable character of a previous party of these immigrants who had been allowed to pass into New </para>
</talk.start>
<para class="block">South "Wales, and, in order to make assurance doubly sure, I sent a second special officer from the department to examine them. This gentleman was satisfied that they were what they purported to be, hard - working agriculturists. They were possessed of money sufficient to provide for their immediate requirements, and of letters of credit that probably represented a good deal more. There appeared to be no reason why they should be rejected. Consequently they were admitted to the Commonwealth, and for that we are responsible. Up to the present time, however, the States Acts relating to the exclusion of undesirable immigrants have been enforced inland, and we are not in any way responsible for any action taken by the States Governments under those Acts. </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8L</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMAS, Josiah</name>
<name role="display">Mr Thomas</name>
</talker>
<para>- In whose employ is the officer in Albury who prevented the immigrants from entering New South Wales? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- He is a Commonwealth officer, but in this case was acting for the State. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8L</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMAS, Josiah</name>
<name role="display">Mr Thomas</name>
</talker>
<para>- Then there are two masters for the one officer ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Yes. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8L</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMAS, Josiah</name>
<name role="display">Mr THOMAS</name>
</talker>
<para>- It is about time a change was made. In view of the very unsatisfactory working of the Immigration Restriction Act, and of the education test applied under it, does not the Minister think that it would have been better to adopt the colour test, as was proposed when the Bill was under discussion ? </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- In the first place, I respectfully deny that the Act is failing in its purpose. I would direct the honorable member's attention to the fact that not a single coloured alien entered the Commonwealth last month, and if any have entered this month I am not aware of it. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8L</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMAS, Josiah</name>
<name role="display">Mr Thomas</name>
</talker>
<para>- It was not intended to keep out those who were not coloured. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- We are not doing so. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE</title>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>
<inline font-style="italic">Resolved</inline>(on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Sir William</inline> Lyne) - </para>
<quote>
<para>That <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Deakin</inline> be a member o£ the Standing Orders Committee during the leave of absence granted to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Barton.</inline></para>
</quote>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>ELECTORAL BILL</title>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
<type>bill</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>Second Reading</title>
<page.no>13353</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Sir WILLIAM</inline>LYNE (Hume- Minister for Home Affairs. - I move - </para>
<quote>
<para>That the Bill be now read a second time. </para>
</quote>
<para class="block">I am very glad to have an opportunity during the first session of this Parliamentto introduce this Bill, which I hope will meet with the approval of honorable members. The trouble that was experiencedduring the last federal elections points strongly to the necessity of passing a measure of this kind without any unnecessary delay. Honorable members are aware that the Bill was first introduced into this Chamber, but that, owing to the pressure of business, it was withdrawn from the noticer paper, and submitted for the consideration of the Senate. It has been passed by theother branch of the Legislature, and is now presented for our consideration. The Electoral Acts of the States have been drawn upon as far as possible in the framing of this measure. The States Electoral Acts differ very widely, and this measure will produceharmony and uniformity of method and. action. Many of the provisions are more akin to the Acts of SouthAustralia and Western Australia than to those in force in the other States. I venture to think, further, that it will be one of the most liberal electoral laws in existence. Certainly the Bill as it stands contains more liberal provisions than are to befound in any of the State Acts, and theCommonwealth is to be congratulated upon the fact that the measure has been pressed , forward to its present position, and that no further general election will take place except under its provisions. This Bill worked in conjunction with the Franchise Act, which recent!}'' became law, willperhaps bring aboutmany changes ; but I believe that they will be of a wholesome and democratic character. I have always felt that it is best to confer a liberal franchise, and to pass liberal electoral laws. In explaining this measure I shall refrain, as far as possible, from dealing with details of a minute character. I shall refer briefly to the more important provisions of the Bill, in the order in which they appear. The greater part of Part I. is comparatively unimportant, but clause 4 contains a special provision that the Bill shall not apply to any by-election that may take place during the continuance of the present House of Representatives. It would have been almost impossible to apply the provisions of this measure to any by-election for some time to come, because honorable members must recognise that a great deal of work will be involved in the framing of the new rolls. </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>L17</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WILKS, William</name>
<name role="display">Mr Wilks</name>
</talker>
<para>- Could we not have a general election until this Bill is passed? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- Yes; but we should have to use the existing rolls. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>L17</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WILKS, William</name>
<name role="display">Mr Wilks</name>
</talker>
<para>- Then there is no urgent necessity to pass this Bill. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I think there is. My experience is that it is necessary at frequent intervals to revise the rolls. In New South Wales the rolls have in times post become very much overloaded with the names of persons who were no longer entitled to hold electoral rights. Within fifteen months after the last referendum we revised the rolls in New South Wales, and made 250,000 alterations. As I stated the other evening, the process of purging the rolls is being carried out as faras that is practicable at the present time under the existing law. But it is only possible to purge them to a very limited extent, because no such provisions are extant as those contained in this Bill. In clause 4, provision is made that this Act shall not apply to the election of a new member to fill any vacancy happening in this Chamber during the continuance of the present House of Representatives. It could not very well be made applicable to such an election for a variety of reasons, one of which is that if a State which at present returns its representatives as one constituency were subdivided, we should have to select some particular district, instead of the whole State, to elect the new member. Though the Bill was originally framed with that object in view, I found upon analysing the question that, owing to the intricacies and difficulties which surround it, it was really impossible to give effect to the original intention. Thus it is that clause 4 has been inserted in the Bill. Part II. deals with the general administration, which, to some extent, resembles the general administration in most of the States, with this difference - that we now provide for one chief electoral officer, and also for an electoral officer in each State to control the elections in that State. The latter will be subject only to the Chief Electoral Officer. In addition to that, power is given to appoint a returning officer for each division. That officer will be under the chief electoral officer of the State, as the latter is subordinate to the chief electoral officer of the Commonwealth. In dealing with this question I do not wish honorable members to become alarmed at the extra expense involved in the appointment of new officers. We have recently heard a good deal about the appointment of officers in my department, although, as I have previously stated, that department is very meanly administered. We intend, as far as possible, to utilize the services of existing Commonwealth officers in the performance of allthe work that is necessary. They will be chiefly postal officials and such others as can be efficiently utilized for the service. They may have to be paid a small additional sum for the services required of them, but I wish it to be distinctly understood that it is not intended to appoint an entirely new staff to cope with this work. Power is also given to appoint assistant returning officers, if necessary, for such districts as the Northern Territory, &c,as well as electoral registrars. These are the main features of Part II. of the Bill. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPM</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCCAY, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr McCay</name>
</talker>
<para>- Will the divisional returning officers be public servants? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- Not necessarily. In some cases it may be impossible to get public servants to perform this work, but as far as practicable it is intended that those undertaking it shall be Commonwealth officers. I believe that in the Postal department we shall be able to secure nearly all the public servants required, but if not, we may utilize the services of the inspectors under the Public Service Act, or those of other Commonwealth officers. Part III. is an important one, because it creates the divisions of each State, so far as the House of Representatives is concerned. Save for dealing with general elections, this Bill refers more particularly to the House of Representatives than to the Senate. It is proposed to appoint three commissioners to subdivide each State. That practice has been adopted in one of the States upon a previous occasion, and it has also been followed in other countries, notably in England and New Zealand. It is better to deal with the matter in this way than for the Government to undertake the work themselves. . Of course, there should be no inducement to define the boundaries of a division in other than a fair manner ; but if the Government undertook the task, they might possibly be accused of cutting up the electorates in a way to suit their own party. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<para>Mi-. Poynton. - Will there be separate commissioners for each State ? </para>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I cannotanswer that question at the present time. I think it is mote than likely that one or two commissioners will act in all cases, and that in determining the limits of the electorates, they will, be assisted by a gentleman who has been for a considerable time resident in the particular State affected. They will thus be less liable to error than would otherwise be the case. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KRO</name.id>
<electorate>GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>PROT</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCLEAN, Allan</name>
<name role="display">Mr A McLEAN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Do these divisions refer to the existing electorates, or will they involve the creation of new electorates ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I am speaking of the subdivision of those States which at present vote as one constituency for the return of members of the House of Representatives. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KRO</name.id>
<electorate>GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>PROT</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCLEAN, Allan</name>
<name role="display">Mr A McLEAN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Are not the States already divided ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- No; for instance, Tasmania and South Australia elect representatives voting as one constituency. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPM</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCCAY, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr McCay</name>
</talker>
<para>- Is it proposed to re-divide those States which are already divided ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- Not unless that course is considered absolutely necessary. The Bill does not compel it to be done. "For instance, in New South Wales or Victoria, which have already been divided into electorates for the return of members to this House, population may have increased in one division and decreased in another, and the variation of the boundaries of a division may therefore become necessary. The commissioners will deal with these alterations of boundaries. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KW6</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMSON, Dugald</name>
<name role="display">Mr Thomson</name>
</talker>
<para>- There is the female vote to be considered, too. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- Yes. The female vote will be exercised to a greater or less extent in every State, and consequently will cause a re-arrangement where such is found necessary. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KXO</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">PAGE, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr Page</name>
</talker>
<para>- Will these commissioners become permanent officers ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate>HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WLLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- Not necessarily the honorable member need not be alarmed upon the score of expense. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KXO</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">PAGE, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr Page</name>
</talker>
<para>- It is not the question of expense about which I am concerned, but I thought that the Minister might have a few more New South Wales friends. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- That is not a very kind remark to make, seeing that I am dealing with States other than New South Wales. When the honorable member refers to " my friends in New South Wales" he should recollect that, having lived in that State for so long, I know more of the personal attributes of men there than I do of individuals in other States, who no doubt are quite as worthy. These divisions are to be made upon a population basis. ' They are to be based upon a quota, and the quota will be found by dividing the total number of electors in any State by the number of members which it can return. There is a somewhat elastic but necessary provision that the quota of electors shall be the basis for the distribution of the divisions, and shall be adhered to as nearly as practicable, but may be departed from to the extent of onefourth, more or less. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
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<name.id>KPM</name.id>
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<name role="metadata">MCCAY, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr McCay</name>
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<para>- Is it proposed that the commissioners shall exercise their discretion, or will they receive Ministerial instructions ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
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<name.id>KIN</name.id>
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<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
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<para>- They will exercise their discretion, but they are not to go either above or below one-fourth. The principle of the Bill is equal representation. If the number of electors exceed 1,000, ' more or less, the reason for not adhering to the quota must be stated. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KRO</name.id>
<electorate>GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA</electorate>
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<name role="metadata">MCLEAN, Allan</name>
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<para>- Does that mean that there is to be an equal population in town and country electorates ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
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<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
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<para>- Yes. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>13355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KRO</name.id>
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<name role="metadata">MCLEAN, Allan</name>
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