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19040316_reps_2_18.xml
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19040316_reps_2_18.xml
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<hansard xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<session.header>
<date>1904-03-16</date>
<parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
<session.no>1</session.no>
<period.no>0</period.no>
<chamber>REPS</chamber>
<page.no>585</page.no>
<proof>0</proof>
</session.header>
<chamber.xscript>
<para>HouseofRepresentatives. </para>
<business.start>
<day.start>1904-03-16</day.start>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Mr.</inline>Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers. </para>
</business.start>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>585</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>MELBOURNE ELECTION</title>
<page.no>585</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>585</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate>SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I wish to make a further statement to the House in reply to a question asked by the honorable and learned member for Corinella yesterday. It is this : I am advised that new names may be added to the electoral rolls of persons who are qualified under the Franchise Act, and who have applied for enrolment prior to the issue of the writ. Consequently all persons who have applied since the issue of the writ for the election on the 16th December last, and whose claims are in order, will be enrolled for the election to be held on the 30th March. All electors whose applications for transfer have been received by the returning officer or registrar before the issue of the writ will also be enrolled, and entitled to vote at the election. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>585</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>COMMONWEALTH STOCK</title>
<page.no>585</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>585</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KW6</name.id>
<electorate>NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">THOMSON, Dugald</name>
<name role="display">Mr DUGALD THOMSON</name>
</talker>
<para>- I wish to know from the Treasurer if steps have been taken to have Commonwealth stock placed upon the list of British trust investments, so that that stock, when issued, may not be at a disadvantage as compared with State stock? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KWT</name.id>
<electorate>BALACLAVA, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Treasurer</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">TURNER, George</name>
<name role="display">Sir GEORGE TURNER</name>
</talker>
<para>- The matter has not been overlooked. I brought it under the attention of the Prime Minister some time ago, in order that the necessary steps might be taken for the introduction of a Bill for the Act required to give the guarantee necessary before the British Government will put stock upon the trustees' list. As there is no Commonwealth stock now on the London market, nor any likely to be placed there in the near future, that Bill was not introduced last session, but it will probably be dealt with this session. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>COST OF ELECTIONS</title>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KDD</name.id>
<electorate>SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>FT</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">EDWARDS, George</name>
<name role="display">Mr G B EDWARDS</name>
</talker>
<para>- On Tuesday last there appeared a statement in the press setting forth the cost of the recent general elections, in which : there are manifest errors. For instance, the cost of the East Sydney election is put down at , £781, though I am informed that it was not anything like so much ; while the cost of the West Sydney election is stated as£265, when in point of fact it cost much more. Of course, arguments and deductions drawn from such statements must be quite wrong. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- My attention has been drawn to the matter. It appears that some of the accounts for the divisions named were by some mistake charged to. the other division ; but before the statement was finally revised for presentation to Parliament, the errors to which the honorable member refers were discovered and rectified. I do not know why there was such a hurry togive the information to the press before revision; but those are the facts of the case. The correct information was placed upon the tables of both House of Parliament. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>COLONEL PRICE</title>
<page.no>586</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KXO</name.id>
<electorate>MARANOA, QUEENSLAND</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">PAGE, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr PAGE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I wish to know from the Minister for Defence if the article appearing in this morning's <inline font-style="italic">Argus,</inline> and headed, " Colonel Tom Price. A Question of Retirement. An Interesting Position," contains the facts of the case. Has his attention been called to the matter? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JX7</name.id>
<electorate>EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for Defence</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">CHAPMAN, Austin</name>
<name role="display">Mr CHAPMAN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I do not know what foundation exists for some of the statements which have been published in the <inline font-style="italic">Argus,</inline> but I shall be very pleased to make inquiries on the subject for the information of the honorable member. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>WIMMERA ELECTION</title>
<page.no>586</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JZF</name.id>
<electorate>ILLAWARRA, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FULLER, George</name>
<name role="display">Mr FULLER</name>
</talker>
<para>- Does the Minister for </para>
</talk.start>
<para>Home Affairs object to lay upon the table the instructions issued to the returning officer as to the recepti n or non-reception of the "Q" votes at the Ni-Ni polling place during the Wimmera election ? </para>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>586</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate>BALLAARAT, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for External Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I have obtained a copy of those instructions ; but perhaps I may betaken as answering the honorable and' learned member's question if I read the reply which has been furnished to me in answer to a letter appearing in one of today's newspapers, and signed by the unsuccessful candidate, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Max.</inline> Hirsch. It is this: - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hirsch</inline>asserts that the reply to the honorable member for Illawarra yesterday contains a " positive misstatement of fact " as to the advice given by the Attorney-General's Department. There was no misstatement. </para>
<para>That advice was given in writing on21st December last, is recorded in both Departments, and a copy is attached. It exactly agrees with the statement made yesterday. </para>
</quote>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Garran's</inline>memorandum, there referred to, is as follows:- </para>
<quote>
<para>Memo for the Secretary, </para>
<para>Department of Home Affairs. </para>
<para>The polling booth at Ni-Ni not having been opened on polling day, the proper course is for the returning officer or presiding officer to adjourn the polling to another day, and give notice of the adjournment, as provided by section 153. of the Act. </para>
<para>A difficulty arises as to whether, at the adjourned poll, " Q " declarations should be accepted from, and ballot-papers given to, electors enrolled for other polling places in the division. </para>
<para>This is a matter in which the presiding officer must use his discretion. For the guidance of that officer, if he desires advice, I may say that in my opinion the adjourned. 'poll being only for that polling booth, only those persons whose names are enrolled for that polling place are entitled to, </para>
</quote>
<para class="block">I vote. </para>
<para>As, however, the matter is not wholly free from doubt, it might perhaps be desirable to allow " Q " declarants to vote, if the ballot papers can be kept separate-e.g., by taking their votes at a separate booth, with a separate ballot-box. The officer conducting - the scrutiny would then decide in his discretion whether to count the votes . or not; and in the event of a petition the Court of Disputed Returns would have the materials for - declaring the result of the election. (Signed) R. R. Garran, </para>
<para>Secretary, Attorney-General's Dept. </para>
<para>21/12/03. </para>
<para>Mr.Hirsch's statement that portion of the judgment of the High Court was " suppressed " in my reply is equally Unfounded. To correct" the misleading effect of an isolated passage quoted from the judgment of the <inline font-style="italic">Argus,</inline> I quoted the immediate context of that passage; Nothing was suppressed, and no such inference was drawn as is suggested by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hirsch.</inline></para>
<para>The additional passage from the Chief Justice's judgment quoted by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hirsch</inline> also involved what he would term " a suppression of fact," since he omits the following very revelant passage : - " It has been pointed out that if the view of the petitioner was accepted, the result would be that, when by accident one polling-place in an electorate was not open on election day, there would be, in effect, two entirely separate polls for the whole electorate, because when the adjournment came each party knew exactly how many votes had been cast for him, and each would collect together all the electors who had not voted before, and bring them to the adjourned poll, thus making practically a fresh election. In view of the provision that all elections should be held on the same day, it was plain that the Legislature thought thatwas a very undesirable thingto happen." </para>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JZF</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FULLER, George</name>
<name role="display">Mr FULLER</name>
</talker>
<para>- Can the Prime Minister say whether that opinion was forwarded to the returning officer prior to the date of polling? </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I shall be happy to ask the Minister for Home Affairs to inform the honorable and learned member. The opinion I have read was sent to the secretary to the Department for Home Affairs, and forwarded by him to the Chief Electoral Officer. What further steps were taken I am not at present in a position to say. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>NEW MEMBER</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Mr. CAMERON</inline>made and subscribed the oath of allegiance as member for the electoral division of Wilmot. </para>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>ELEVENTH AUSTRALIAN INFANTRY REGIMENT</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JWA</name.id>
<electorate>FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">CARPENTER, William</name>
<name role="display">Mr CARPENTER</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the Minister for Defence, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>Whether the11th Australian Infantry Regiment (W.A.) is the only regiment on a nonpaying footing. If so, why? </para>
</quote>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JX7</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">CHAPMAN, Austin</name>
<name role="display">Mr CHAPMAN</name>
</talker>
<para>-In reply to the honorable member I have to state - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>The11th Australian Infantry Regiment is not the only regiment which is not paid. </para>
</quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>MEDICAL SCHOOL OF INSTRUCTION</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KJ8</name.id>
<electorate>HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">HUTCHISON, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr HUTCHISON</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the Minister for Defence, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>Why has the Medical School of Instruction for the South Australian Medical Corps been postponed, in view of the fact that members, in some cases at great inconvenience, had made arrangements to attend ? </para>
</quote>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JX7</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">CHAPMAN, Austin</name>
<name role="display">Mr CHAPMAN</name>
</talker>
<para>- In reply to the honorable member I have to state - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>The General Officer Commanding reports that there is no officer available for giving the required instruction or supervision for the period previously arranged. </para>
</quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>CUSTOMS OFFICERS AT BROOME</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JX9</name.id>
<electorate>KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FRAZER, Charles</name>
<name role="display">Mr FRAZER</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>Have any officers in the Customs Department at the Port of Broome been suspended, removed, or discharged recently ? </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>Have any charges been made or is any in quiry proceeding in connexion with officers at this port ? </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>If officers have been discharged, what is the nature of the charges laid against them? </para>
</item>
</list>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KIN</name.id>
<electorate>HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNE, William</name>
<name role="display">Sir WILLIAM LYNE</name>
</talker>
<para>- In reply to the honorable member's questions - </para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>No. officers have been suspended. Two of the officers who performed Customs duties at this Port were State officers who acted for the Commonwealth, by whom the salary of one of these was partly paid. The State Government has been notified that the services of these State officers are no longer required. It is intended to remove the junior officer, who is not in the State service, to another position. </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>No charges have been made, but inquiries into matters at this port are continuing. </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>Officers have been dealt with as described in answer No. 1. Reports prove that the business was conducted in a very lax manner. </para>
</item>
</list>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>DUTY STAMPS AND PROMISSORY NOTES</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K4I</name.id>
<electorate>BOURKE, VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>PROT</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">COOK, James</name>
<name role="display">Mr HUME COOK</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the Postmaster-General <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>Whether the Postal Department is responsible for the suspension of the sale of duty stamps and promissory notes by postal officials in charge of contract post-offices; if not, will the PostmasterGeneral inform the House how the present condition has arisen under which duty stamps and promissory notes are not purchasable by the public at contract offices at present? </para>
</quote>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>009MD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DEAKIN, Alfred</name>
<name role="display">Mr DEAKIN</name>
</talker>
<para>- On behalf of the PostmasterGeneral, I have to say that - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>The sale of duty stamps and promissory notes is under the control of and regulatd by the State Government. The Postmaster-General is not aware of the reasons why such stamps and promissory notes are not supplied to officers in charge of contract post offices for sale to the public. </para>
</quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>ELECTION STATISTICS</title>
<page.no>587</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>587</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>L2I</name.id>
<electorate>MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>FT</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">SMITH, Sydney</name>
<name role="display">Mr SYDNEY SMITH</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the Minister for Home Affairs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>What are the numbers of electors enrolled (male and females separately) for the Divisions of Riverina, Darling, Barrier, Lang, Parkes, and East Sydney? </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>The number of votes recorded for <inline font-weight="bold">Sir</inline></para>
</item>
</list>
<para class="block">William Lyne and <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. W.</inline> C. Goddardrespectively for the Hume Division at the General Election of 1901. </para>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>588</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- In reply to the honorable member's questions - </para>
</talk.start>
<para class="block">
<graphic href="018331190403164_3_0.jpg" />
</para>
<para>HUME DIVISION- GENERAL ELECTION, 1 901. </para>
<para class="block">
<graphic href="018331190403164_3_1.jpg" />
</para>
<para>At that time only men exercised the right to vote. </para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>588</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>GOVERNOR-GENERAL'S SPEECH: ADDRESS IN REPLY</title>
<page.no>588</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<para>Debate resumed from March 15 <inline font-style="italic">{vide</inline> page 542), on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Mauger</inline> - </para>
<quote>
<para>That the A'ddress be agreed to by the House. </para>
</quote>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>588</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- (Swan- Minister for Home Affairs). - Honorable members opposite may think that, as the Government are always anxious to expedite public business, I am not altogether acting in accordance with that desire in rising to speak upon the Address in Reply. But my excuse is that I am one of the few members of this House - there are only five altogether - who represent the far-off State of Western Australia; and I think that it is incumbent on all of us to be, perhaps, a little in evidence on such occasions. Otherwise it might be thought by the people of our State, and, perhaps, by the people of Australia generally, that Western Australia had no efficient representation in this House. I also regret as much as any honorable member can do that on the few occasions when I have had the opportunity of addressing the House, I have had to refer to matters which particularly affected my own State. That was not because I am out of sympathy with the conditions or the affairs of other parts of Australia, or cannot take a sufficiently wide view to consider them; but because Western Australia has such a small representation. On the other hand, the great States of New South Wales and Victoria are so largely represented, and have so much influence here that it appears to me that it is not so necessary for their members to speak in regard to their affairs. I cannot, forget that Western </para>
</talk.start>
<para>Australia is far away from the eastern States, that she occupies an immense area which is sparsely settled, having only a little over 230,000 people all told, and that she is isolated. We in Western Australia have no means of communication with these States except by a four days' voyage by sea to Adelaide. I am very sorry at the beginning of my remarks to have to admit that this isolation is already spoiling the Federal sentiment in Western Australia; and unless some means are taken to prevent it, and that pretty soon - or at any rate unless some hope is.' extended to the people of that State - all I can say is that that Federal sentiment must continue to get weaker, and must soon end - I assure the House that I hope that it will not be so - in open hostility. </para>
</speech>
<para>Honorable Members. - Oh !</para>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>588</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I do not think that that is an improper remark for me to make. I am only stating what I fear will be the case. I very much regret it, and I hope some means will be taken to prevent it. There can be no doubt that the idea of Federation and the very meaning of the word is a joining together. Those who desire the success of Federation must assist in the first instance, in removing isolation. Whether rightly or wrongly, there is no doubt whatever of the fact that the people of Western Australia - a large number of them at any rate - in agreeing to join in a Federation with their fellow countrymen in other parts of Australia, believed, and had good reasons for the belief, that the union would soon result in the barrier of isolation being removed. They believed that they would soon have railway communication between Western Australia and the eastern States of the continent. That was the main lever used by all of us who advocated Federation: It was the lever used by the prominent men in Eastern Australia to influence those who had lived so long in isolation, and who had become accustomed to that position. They were told that this communication of Western Australia by railway with the eastern States must be an early result of Federation. We all, I think, admit that, Australia being an island continent, inhabited by the same race of people, there is no room here for six different and almost sovereign States. If it were otherwise - if we were different peoples with different habits and different ambitions - the case might be different; but that is not so. We all come from the same stock ; we have the same history ; we have the same ambitions for the future ; we are citizens of the same Empire. Therefore, there is no room upon this continent for six sovereign States with independent Governments. The argument was excellent when we all used it, that union was not only necessary, but reasonable and businesslike ; but it must be a real union, and not one in name only ; not a sham, such as our union is at present, and such as it must continue to be so long as we have no means of communication between the great western and the great eastern States, except by embarking upon a four days' sea voyage, for the greater part of the journey far out of the sight of land. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>589</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KCO</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GLYNN, Patrick</name>
<name role="display">Mr Glynn</name>
</talker>
<para>- How did the American States get on before the use of steam was introduced ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>589</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I do not know, but should say very badly. I think that we may judge of our own case for ourselves. The honorable and learned member is so erudite that it is of no use for me to attempt to cross swords with him. I recog'nise that no honorable member in this House has a mind stored with so many historical facts as he has. Unfortunately, I,000 miles of practically uninhabited country will have to be traversed by the proposed railway. That makes the position more difficult than it would be if settlements were established at frequent intervals along the route of the railway. I am glad, however, to be able to say that some real advance has been made in this matter, and that the GovernorGeneral's Speech conveys the information that the Government intend to ask the House to approve of a survey being made. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>589</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>L17</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WILKS, William</name>
<name role="display">Mr Wilks</name>
</talker>
<para>- Did not the Minister write that paragraph? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>589</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I did not. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>589</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KYD</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">POYNTON, Alexander</name>
<name role="display">Mr Poynton</name>
</talker>
<para>- Is it true that the Minister has decided that the survey shall be made for a railway by way of the Gawler Ranges, and not through Tarcoola? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>589</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I have not decided anything. No doubt a railway could be constructed by the Gawler Ranges route for ^500,000 less than by the Tarcoola route, and as the House is in an economical frame of mind, that consideration may weigh with them. That, in itself, however, is not a sufficient reason why the route should be adopted. I wish to see the railway constructed, and I am not very particular as to which route it follows. The project for the construction of a railway to connect Western Australia with the eastern States was not received with much favour when it was first submitted to the House; but I am glad to say that it is now viewed with more favour, and that it has gained ground in the estimation of the people. Even in South Australia - where, for some unknown reason which I could not understand, the project was regarded with disfavour - I believe that the people are beginning to see that it would be very beneficial to them, and would confer as great an advantage upon South Australia as upon Western Australia, and I look forward to the time, and that very soon, when any objection that may have been raised by that State will be removed. I have not the slightest doubt that success will attend our efforts, but whether immediately or some time hence must depend largely upon public opinion. We . shall have to be content to wait till Parliament, with full information before it, is able to arrive at a decision in regard to it. There is no use in my saying that it is a good project, that it would prove payable, or that it would impose no burden on the people of Australia. What I have to do, and what the people of Western Australia and all those interested have to do, is to use every effort to induce the House and the country to view it with favour. I have always been content to accept that position. I have, however, always entertained a very strong objection to a situation in which any State should be able to say - " We shall prevent you people of Western Australia from being connected with the other States by rail; we shall not allow you to be brought into communication with your neighbours by railway, because there is rsection in the Constitution which says that our consent has first to be obtained." I have no hesitation in saying that that section was not embodied in the Constitution with any idea that it could be availed of for such a purpose. The design of the framers was to prevent the Commonwealth from interfering with the States in regard to matters relating to inter-communication within their own territory, and it was never contemplated that one State should be able to block another from being connected with the other States bv railway. Any such idea would be absurd, and entirely opposed to the principles of Federation. No State with any self-respect would be content to restunder such a condition for a minute, and if I thought that South Australia or any other State would be able for long to prevent Western Australia from being connected with the other States by rail - to prevent that inter-communication between the States which is the very life-blood of Federation - I should say - " This Federation is a fraud; we have been led into it by false pretences, and the sooner we get out of it the better." </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>L17</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WILKS, William</name>
<name role="display">Mr Wilks</name>
</talker>
<para>- What about the Federal Capital? We must have that first. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I am quite as strong as is the honorable member in the desire to see the capital question settled. If any one imagines that we are not going to have railway communication between the east and west of Australia, I say to him that he is a little Australian, and has no faith in the future of his country. Federation, without means of communication between the great west and the great east of the continent would be meaningless. It would have absolutely no significance whatever. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>F4S</name.id>
<electorate>PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917</party>
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">COOK, Joseph</name>
<name role="display">Mr JOSEPH COOK</name>
</talker>
<para>- What does the Treasurer say upon the subject? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I am not committing the Treasurer. We only want the railway when Parliament is prepared to grant it. Now I shall have to say some things which are not so pleasant as I might desire, but I am determined to give utterance to them, because I have a duty to perform, not only to myself, but to the people of the State I represent. Among the foremost men in Australia who promised - indirectly if not directly- that Federation would be the forerunner of railway communication between the east and west of Australia was the then Premier of South Australia, the right honorable and learned member for Adelaide. On the 9th April, 1899, when I was Premier of Western Australia, he wrote to me as follows : - </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<quote>
<para>Our near constitutional connexion, resulting from Federation, is in itself a boon of great worth to all included within its sphere. I cannot help thinking, also, that it must, at no very distant date, result in the connexion of east and west by rail through the medium, say, of a line between Port Augusta and your gold-fields. </para>
</quote>
<para class="block">There is no mention there about Esperance </para>
</speech>
<para>Bay</para>
<para>This would, indeed, be an Australian work worthy of undertaking by a Federal authority on behalf of the nation, in pursuance of the authorities contained in the Commonwealth, Bill. It is, of course, a work of special interest to Western Australia and South Australia, and I devoutly hope that the day is not far distant when the representatives of Western Australia and South Australia may, in their places in a Federal </para>
<para class="block">Parliament, be found working side by side for the advancement of Australian interests in this and other matters of national concern. </para>
<para class="block">On the 4th September of the same year my right honorable friend wrote to me as follows. I may say that this was before the referendum in Western Australia - </para>
<quote>
<para>With Federation assured, the Federal construction of the railway is in our opinion undoubtedly the best means for carrying out this great Australian underaking. We hope that it will not be long before Western Australians and South Australians are co-operating in the Parliament of the Commonwealth to bring this about, and we repeat that you can rely on South Australia's sympathy and support. </para>
</quote>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K5D</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">O'MALLEY, King</name>
<name role="display">Mr O'Malley</name>
</talker>
<para>- The right honorable gentleman will obtain sympathy from South Australia, but no support. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- So far we have not been favoured with much of either. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KEW</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KINGSTON, Charles</name>
<name role="display">Mr Kingston</name>
</talker>
<para>- The right honorable gentleman has had both. Western Australia is offered two railways instead of one. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KFJ</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FORREST, John</name>
<name role="display">Sir JOHN FORREST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I would point out to the right honorable and learned member for Adelaide that in the communication which I have quoted no mention is made of a railway from Esperance Bay to the goldfields. It refers only to the projected transcontinental line from Western Australia to South Australia. I repeat that we have had neither sympathy nor support from the latter State. For three years the Commonwealth Government have persistently endeavoured to secure permission from that State for the railway to pass through its territory. So far, we have been unsuccessful. The authorities have neglected to give proper consideration to the requests which have been made by the Commonwealth Government. </para>
</talk.start>
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<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>590</page.no>
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<para>- Why, the very first speech which the Minister made in this House contained a threat of disruption and nonsense of that sort. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
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<talk.start>
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<page.no>590</page.no>
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<para>- I am discussing the question of the railway. </para>
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<interjection>
<talk.start>
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<page.no>590</page.no>
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<electorate>PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party>FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917</party>
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<name role="metadata">COOK, Joseph</name>
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<para>- We also complain of neglect of the Federal Capital question. " </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
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<talk.start>
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<page.no>590</page.no>
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<para>- The honorable member will be quite satisfied with my attitude upon that subject. But in connexion with the transcontinental railway, I should like to ask what 'the right honorable and learned member for Adelaide has done during all this time. He has done absolutely nothing. He has never asked the people of South Australia to respect the promises which he made. His action strongly recalls to my mind the old fable of the spider and the fly. "Will you walk into my parlour?" said the spider to the fly - and Western Australia walked in. The right honorable and learned member, who in a public capacity made all these promises - which were very acceptable to Western Australia - occupying as he did a most responsible position, has never yet come out into the open and said, " I made these promises, and I ask South Australia to respect them." He has never asked the people of what he terms "My own dear State" not to dishonour themselves or their country by repudiating the pledges which he made on their behalf. But instead, what has he done? He has done even worse, than nothing. He has sought to impose a new condition ; he declares that whilst he favours the construction of a railway from A to B, it is conditional upon a line being built from B to C. </para>
</talk.start>
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<interjection>
<talk.start>
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<page.no>591</page.no>
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<para>- Thus giving both sides double the convenience which they would otherwise obtain. </para>
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<page.no>591</page.no>
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<para>- To what "both sides " does the right honorable and learned member refer? </para>
</talk.start>
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<interjection>
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<page.no>591</page.no>
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