19310520_reps_12_129.xml

<hansard xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
  <session.header>
    <date>1931-05-20</date>
    <parliament.no>12</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>4</period.no>
    <chamber>REPS</chamber>
    <page.no>2097</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <para class="block">House of Representatives. </para>
    <business.start>
      <day.start>1931-05-20</day.start>
      <para>
        <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Speaker (Hon. Norman Makin)</inline>took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and offered prayers. </para>
    </business.start>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>LANG PLAN</title>
        <page.no>2097</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <para>Notice of motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Cusack)</inline> - <inline font-style="italic">by leave</inline> - withdrawn - </para>
      <quote>
        <para>That a select committee be appointed, consisting of <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hughes, Mr. Lyons, Mr. Archdale</inline> Parkhill, and <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Ward,</inline> for the purpose of considering and reporting upon the merits of what is known as the &#34; Lang Plan &#34;. </para>
      </quote>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2097</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>PETROL</title>
          <page.no>2097</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Commonwealth Oil Refineries - Inquiry by Royal Commission. </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7U</name.id>
              <electorate>CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CROUCH</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- In December last I asked a question of the Treasurer with regard &#39;to the Commonwealth Oil Refineries, and the relations of the company with the Government and the public. During the recess I wrote asking for an answer, and I have twice repeated the request in this House; on each occasion I was told that a replywould be furnished at a later date. As the master is of public importance, I ask the Treasurer when I may expect a reply? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate>DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Treasurer</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I shall inquire regarding the cause of delay, and let the honorable member have an answer tomorrow. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVU</name.id>
              <electorate>NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THOMPSON, Victor</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THOMPSON</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I ask the Prime Minister whether the Government is considering the advisability of appointing a royal commission, or some other body, to inquire into the operations of the oilimporting companies? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate>YARRA, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for External Affairs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The matter is receiving the earnest consideration of the Government. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2097</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>VICTORIAN REPRESENTATION IN SENATE</title>
          <page.no>2097</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
              <electorate>MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Is the Prime Minister able to offer any information as to why no representative of the Australian Labour party was nominated for the vacancy in the Victorian representation in the Senate, which was recently filled by a &#34;Nationalist nominee, especially as </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Labour is in a minority in that chamber and a Labour Government is in office in Victoria ? </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SPEAKER, Mr</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SPEAKER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Order. The honorable member is not entitled to offer observations when asking questions. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2097</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Should not the fact of Labour being in power in Victoria have favoured a Labour nominee? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2097</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KZO</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LATHAM, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Latham</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- On a point of order, I submit that the question is not in order, as it does not relate to a department or matter of public business under the control of the Prime Minister. It is merely a political inquiry for propaganda purposes. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2097</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">SPEAKER, Mr</name>
                <name role="display">Mr SPEAKER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is for the Prime Minister to declare whether the question relates to any Commonwealth departmental activity. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- It is not the function ofthe Government to nominate candidates for vacancies in the Senate. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2097</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I did not suggest that it is. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2097</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>SUGAR AGREEMENT</title>
          <page.no>2097</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KIT</name.id>
              <electorate>LILLEY, QUEENSLAND</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MACKAY, George</name>
              <name role="display">Mr MACKAY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Will the Prime Minister consider the advisability of allotting two days to the discussion of the sugar agreement, or ask the House to meet at 11 o&#39;clock to-morrow in order that a reasonable amount of time may be available for the discussion? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The present intention of the Government is to allot tomorrow only for that discussion. The duration of the discussion will be governed by the progress made with it to-morrow. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2097</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>SHIPPING BOARD</title>
          <page.no>2097</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KWN</name.id>
              <electorate>BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">TULLY, James</name>
              <name role="display">Mr TULLY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- In view of the information given to me yesterday in answer to a question, upon notice, relative to Cockatoo Dock, will the Assistant Minister recommend to the Government a uniform policy in connexion with accumulated leave, and the granting of advance payments to officers going on furlough? Will he inquire also whether the Shipping Board is any longer necessary, and whether it could, with advantage, be supplanted by a manager? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2097</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SPEAKER, Mr</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SPEAKER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I remind the honorable member that he ought not to preface a question with the statement that it  is based upon an answer to a previous question ? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KHL</name.id>
              <electorate>FLINDERS, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Assistant Minister for Industry, Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and Assistant to the Treasurer</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">HOLLOWAY, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr HOLLOWAY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I have decided to consult with the Treasurer and the Public Service Board with a view to the adoption of a uniform policy. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2098</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>PURCHASE OF GOLD</title>
          <page.no>2098</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
              <electorate>WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I have received a letter from the Warringah Shire Council stating that persons are going from door to door seeking to buy gold trinkets and ornaments. The council suggests that it would be in the interests of the Commonwealth to . make it known that the Government is prepared to purchase gold articles from private persons. Has the Treasurer considered the advisability of doing that? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The advisability of appealing for trinkets, jewellery and other articles containing gold for utilization during the present crisis was considered by the Treasury, but the proposal was found to be impracticable, for the reason that most articles of the kind contain a very large proportion of alloy. However, I shall refer the matter to the Commonwealth Bank for consideration. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2098</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>SOVIET BUTTER IN UNITED KINGDOM</title>
          <page.no>2098</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
              <electorate>WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- As advice has been received from Great Britain that the largely increased importation of Soviet butter is detrimentally affecting the Australian export trade, what action does the Government propose to take to defend the interests of our butter producers ? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The Commonwealth Government has no control over importations into the United Kingdom, but at the Imperial Conference I and my colleagues strongly urged that increased preference should be given to Australian products. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2098</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>RE-DISTRIBUTION OF SEATS</title>
          <page.no>2098</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFS</name.id>
              <electorate>HENTY, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Will &#39;the Minister for Home Affairs inform the House of the Government&#39;s intentions in regard to the re-distribution of seats? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JPV</name.id>
              <electorate>DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">BLAKELEY, Arthur</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BLAKELEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The matter is receiving consideration. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2098</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>CIVIL AVIATION</title>
          <page.no>2098</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para class="block">Loss of <inline font-style="italic">&#34;Southern</inline> Cloud&#34;. </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate>BALACLAVA, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Will the Minister for Defence lay upon the table the report of the board which inquired into the loss of the air liner, <inline font-style="italic">Southern Cloud?</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>A48</name.id>
              <electorate>MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CHIFLEY, Ben</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CHIFLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I shall be glad to do so. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2098</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>LEAGUE OF NATIONS ASSEMBLY</title>
          <page.no>2098</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Will the Prime Minister say whether the newspaper report is correct that Messrs. J. R. Collins and O. C. H. Fuhrman are to represent the Commonwealth&#39; at the next Assembly of the League of Nations,? If the report is correct, will the right honorable gentleman say why the High Commissioner has been omitted from the delegation ? </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I intend to make a short statement to the House on that subject later. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2098</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>CUSTOMS DEPARTMENT</title>
          <page.no>2098</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Excess Officers</para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KYH</name.id>
              <electorate>BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PRICE, John</name>
              <name role="display">Mr PRICE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Prime Minister. <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>How many officers in the Trade and Customs Department in New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland, have been compulsorily retired as excess officers? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>How many have been compulsorily retired in South Australia as excess officers? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>Among the officers so retired, how many of them were transferred from the State service with existing and accruing rights provided by seetion 84 of the Constitution Act? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>As the impression is abroad in South Australia that the compulsory retirement of officers from the Commonwealth Service is not free from the suspicion that victimization is the prime factor that has brought about the termination of their services, will the Minister carefully look into the matter and lay the papers connected therewith on the table of the House, in order that honorable members may see whether there is any justification for the belief that this further federal disability to South Australian officers is part of a scheme to deprive them of -rights which were regarded as having been established in the High Court judgments, Leleu <inline font-style="italic">v.</inline> Commonwealth, and Lucy v. Commonwealth? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2098</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The information is being obtained, and a reply will be furnished at the earliest possible date. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2099</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>DUTY AND EXCISE ON SPIRIT</title>
          <page.no>2099</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KOC</name.id>
              <electorate>through. Mr. M. Cameron</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">HAWKER, Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Mr HAWKER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>What quantities of both imported and Australian spirits were cleared from bond during the three months ended 31st March, 1931? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>What was the amount of duty received during the same period on both imported and Australian spirits, irrespective of the additional 5s. per gallon for bottling out of bond? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>What was the amount of duty received upon both imported and Australian spirits in respect to the 5s. per gallon impost for bottling out of bond during the same period? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>What additional expense is incurred by the Customs and Excise Branch of his department in the supervision of bottling of spirits in bond? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The information is being obtained. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2099</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>NEW SOUTH WALES INTEREST PAYMENTS</title>
          <page.no>2099</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JVR</name.id>
              <electorate>PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">NAIRN, Walter</name>
              <name role="display">Mr NAIRN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Treasurer, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>What is the total amount of default to date by the State of New South Wales for interest ? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>For what amounts have writs been issued, and what are the dates of issue of such writs ? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The answers to the honorable member&#39;s questions are as follow </para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>The total amount of default by New South Wales to date for interest (including exchange and commission) is &#163;2,338,916. Towards that liability the Commonwealth has applied certain sums amounting to &#163;584,154, which, in the ordinary course, would have been paid by the Commonwealth to New South Wales. The net amount now owing^by New South Wales is, therefore, &#163;1,754,762. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>A writ was issued on the 13th April, 1931, for &#163;557,519 (is. 2d.; further writs are in course of preparation. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2099</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>PENSIONS</title>
          <page.no>2099</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Effect of Exchange Rate</para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KMU</name.id>
              <electorate>WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MARKS, Walter</name>
              <name role="display">Mr MARKS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Treasurer, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>Has any decision been reached whereby pensioners from various parts of the Empire, and now resident in Australia, may receive the benefit of the exchange rate on the amounts forwarded to them, which, in the majority of cases, are paid by the Commonwealth Bank? </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- In the majority of cases pensioners from the various parts of the Empire now resident in Australia receive their pensions through the agency of the Treasury and the Repatriation </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Departments. Arrangements are being made under which such pensioners will receive the equivalent in Australian currency of the sterling value of their pensions. In this way they will receive the benefit of exchange. Details are now being settled between the Treasury and a representative of the British Ministry of Pensions, who is at present in Australia. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2099</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>PREFERENTIAL EMPIRE TRADE</title>
          <page.no>2099</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K9H</name.id>
              <electorate>ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GARDNER, Sydney</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GARDNER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Prime Minister, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>In view of the fact that the -conference of primary producers convened by the New South Wales Government and recently held at Bathurst, passed by an overwhelming majority the following resolution&#93; via. :  - </para>
            <para>This conference affirms that the greatest relief to our marketing problems would be afforded by a system of preferential empire trade, and requests our Federal and State Governments to work for the consummation of that principle; at the same time we believe that by allowing her home markets to remain open to commodities of Russia at prices below the cost of production the British Government is not acting in the best interests of the Empire, and the inevitable result must be to weaken the bonds which bind the Empire together, will the Prime Minister act as requested by this conference, and take the matter up with the British Government ? </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- This matter formed the subject of considerable negotiations at the recent Imperial Conference. The Commonwealth Government is fully seised of the importance of conserving to Australia the markets in which she disposes of her products, and of the advantages offered by a system of preferential empire trade. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2099</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>GOVERNMENT SAVINGS BANK OF NEW SOUTH WALES</title>
          <page.no>2099</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KMU</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MARKS, Walter</name>
              <name role="display">Mr MARKS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Treasurer, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>What stage has been reached in the negotiations between the Commonwealth Bank and the closed Government Savings Bank of New South Wales? </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2099</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Information as to the negotiations is not available. It is understood that the matter is at the present moment under the consideration of the Commonwealth Bank Board. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2100</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>NAURU</title>
          <page.no>2100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Acting Administrator</para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JOG</name.id>
              <electorate>OXLEY, QUEENSLAND</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">BAYLEY, James</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BAYLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Prime Minis ter, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>Whether the Administrator of Nauru is, or has been, on leave? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>If so, who is acting, or has acted, in bis stead? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>How long hashe so acted? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>What position did he previously fill? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="5.">
              <para>What other training had he to fit him for the position? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The answers to the honorable member&#39;s questions are as follow: - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>
                <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. W.</inline>A. Newman, Administrator of Nauru, was absent from the island on leave from the 18th February to the 13th May, 1931. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>
                <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Carl</inline>D&#39;Arcy Gabel. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>From the 18th February to the 13th May, 1931. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>Private secretary to the previous Assistant Minister for Industry. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="5.">
              <para>Training and experience as an officer of the Commonwealth Public Service since 1907, and as a member of the Australian Imperial Force from the 7th August, 1914, to the 30th May, 1919. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2100</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>NAVAL APPOINTMENTS</title>
          <page.no>2100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7U</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CROUCH</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Minister for Defence, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>Is Captain Stevenson the senior captain in the Australian Navy? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>Is he senior to Captain Holbrook, a British naval officer ? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>Was Captain Holbrook due for return to the British Navy; if so, on what date? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>Is Captain Holbrook&#39;s term in the Australian Navy to be extended so that he may become senior officer in that Navy? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="5.">
              <para>Is an English officer to be brought to Australia to command H.M.A.S. <inline font-style="italic">Australia?</inline></para>
            </item>
            <item label="6.">
              <para>Are more English commodores to be brought from England for Australian navy service; if so, how many? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="7.">
              <para>Are there any Australian lieutenantcommanders in the Australian Navy; if so, how many? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="8.">
              <para>Does the Naval Board make recommendations concerning these new English appointments ? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="9.">
              <para>Is the Naval Board composed of English naval officers; if not, how many Australiantrained naval officers are in its personnel? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>A48</name.id>
              <electorate>MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CHIFLEY, Ben</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CHIFLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The answers to the honorable member&#39;s questions are as follow :  - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>Yes. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>Yes. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>Yes; on the 11th June, 1931. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>No.  His  term has been extended until December, 1931, as it is essential that an officer with recent sea-going experience in modern ships should take command of the squadron. The only alternative was to obtain a flag officer from the Royal Navy to relieve Rear Admiral Evans. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="5.">
              <para>Yes. All Royal Australian Navy captains are otherwise employed. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="6.">
              <para>No such officers are required at present. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="7.">
              <para>Thirty-nine on the active full pay Hat. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="8.">
              <para>Yes. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="9.">
              <para>The two naval members of the board are at the present time Royal Navy officers. The finance and civil member is an Australian. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BRASS SHEETS</title>
        <page.no>2100</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Distributing Arrangements</title>
          <page.no>2100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Minister for </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Defence, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>Upon what terms is the Government supplying Noyes Brothers with brass sheets? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>Were Noyes Brothers appointed by the Government as their sole agents for distribution on a commission or a purchase basis? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="3.">
              <para>Do Noyes Brothers take the whole of the Government output? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>Are the employees at Maribyrnong working full time on the manufacture of brass sheets? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>A48</name.id>
              <electorate>MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CHIFLEY, Ben</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CHIFLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- -The answers to the honorable member&#39;s questions are as follow :  -  1 and 2. Noyes Brothers have been appointed sole agents for distribution of the products of the Government Rolling Mills. The arrangement made with Noyes Brothers for the distribution of brass sheets provides for a commission of <inline font-style="italic">2&#189;</inline> per cent, to be paid on sales. This is the only remuneration payable to the firm who are responsible to the Commonwealth for payment of all supplies delivered to merchants, &#38;c. Noyes Brothers are also responsible for the collection and payment of sales tax where applicable. The department has the right to supply other Commonwealth departments direct, and no commission is payable in these cases nor in the case of supplies manufactured for defence purposes. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="3.">
              <para>No. Noyes Brothers handle all commercial inquiries, but quantities of brass sheets are manufactured for use of the Defence Department and can be supplied direct to other Commonwealth departments. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="4.">
              <para>The brass sheets arc manufactured at the ammunition factory, Footscray, and the employees are working full time on the manufacture of these sheets for departmental and commercial purposes. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2100</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>AUSTRALIAN COMMONWEALTH LINE</title>
          <page.no>2100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Purchase Money</para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2100</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7U</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CROUCH</name>
            </talker>
            <para>asked the Treasurer, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>With reference to the cable messages concerning the summonses issued against Lord Kylsant in connexion with the shipping company which purchased the Commonwealth  shipping line, and the possibility of this purchasing company going into liquidation - </para>
            <list type="loweralpha">
              <item label="(a)">
                <para>What amount of the purchase moneys is still due to the Commonwealth? </para>
              </item>
              <item label="(b)">
                <para>Did the late Government make any, and, if so, what arrangement for security of the balance from time to time due? </para>
              </item>
              <item label="(c)">
                <para>Has the Commonwealth any lien on the ships sold for the amount still due? </para>
              </item>
            </list>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2101</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The answers to the honorable member&#39;s questions are as follow :  - (a.) &#163;1,320,000. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="loweralpha">
            <item label="(b)">
              <para>Yes. The balance of purchase money is secured by a series of debentures which constitute a floating charge on all vessels and property acquired by the shipping company from the Commonwealth and the goodwill in connexion with the said vessels and property. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="(c)">
              <para>No. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2101</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>AGRICULTURAL IMPLEMENT INDUSTRY</title>
          <page.no>2101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2101</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- On the 16th April, the honorable member for Gippsland <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Paterson)</inline> asked me the following questions, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>Have the wages of employees in the agricultural implement industry been reduced, and if so, to what extent? </para>
            </item>
            <item label="2.">
              <para>Have such reductions, if any, been reflected in a corresponding fall in the price of agricultural implements? </para>
            </item>
          </list>
          <para class="block">A reply was furnished by me in regard to part 1, and I indicated that inquiries would be made as to the position regarding part 2. I am now in- a position to furnish the following reply: - </para>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="2.">
              <para>The largest manufacturers have issued <inline font-style="italic">new</inline> price lists effective from 31st March, 1931, in which they advise that they are reducing the price of agricultural implements. They also state that by progressive reductions the prices of many of their leading specialities are lower than they were ever before. The companies also point out that, notwithstanding the reduced prices, they still offer the embargo allowance of 5 per cent, when it applies, and also that their prices are free of sales tax. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2101</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>ARBITRATION COURT</title>
          <page.no>2101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Sale of Transcripts of Evidence</para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2101</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JSC</name.id>
              <electorate>BATMAN, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Attorney-General</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">BRENNAN, Frank</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BRENNAN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- On the 14th May, the honorable member for Bendigo <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Keane)</inline> asked me the following question, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice: -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>What was the amount collected from trade&#39; unions for shorthand notes of proceedings in the Court of Conciliation and Arbitration for each of the years 1928, 1929 and 1930? </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The amounts collected were as follow :  - </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_4_0.jpg" />
          </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2101</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>LEGAL PROFESSION</title>
          <page.no>2101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Removals from Rolls. </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2101</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JSC</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">BRENNAN, Frank</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BRENNAN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- On the 14th May the honorable member for Bendigo <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Keane)</inline> asked me the following question, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>How many members of the legal profession have been removed from the rolls or sentenced to imprisonment during the past two years for fraudulent practices? </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">I am now in a position to give the honorable member the following particulars as to the number of practitioners whose names have been removed from the High Court register in consequence of their names being struck off the roll of solicitors for the Supreme Court of a State within the last two years ending the 31st March. 1931 : - </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_4_1.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para class="block">Particulars as to the sentences of imprisonment, if any, imposed on practitioners struck off the roll are presumably in the records of the several States, but are not recorded in my department. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTION</title>
        <page.no>2101</page.no>
        <type>Questions</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>CANADIAN SALES TAX</title>
          <page.no>2101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2101</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KVS</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">THEODORE, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr THEODORE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- On the 7th May the honorable member for Bendigo <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Keane)</inline> asked the following question, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>Is it a fact that the Canadian sales tax has recently been increased from 1 per cent, to 6 per cent.? </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The answer to the honorable member&#39;s question is as follows: - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>Inquiries have been made of the Canadian Trade Commissioner, who states that he has had no official advice of any increase in the sales tax, which was reduced in May, 1930, from 2 per cent, to 1 per cent. It is anticipated that the Canadian budget will be delivered this month, when further information will no doubt be available. </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>RELIEF OFUNEMPLOYED</title>
        <page.no>2102</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <para>Surplus Military Clothing  -  Naval Stores  -  Use of Drill Halls and barracks. </para>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>2102</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name.id>A48</name.id>
            <electorate>MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
            <party>ALP</party>
            <role />
            <in.gov>0</in.gov>
            <first.speech>0</first.speech>
            <name role="metadata">CHIFLEY, Ben</name>
            <name role="display">Mr CHIFLEY</name>
          </talker>
          <para>- Yesterday the honorable member for Moreton <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Francis)</inline> asked if , any of themilitary stores that have been made available for the unemployed hadbeen forwarded to Queensland. I am now in a position to inform the honorable member -that a consignment of 2,000 jackets and &#39;500 great-coats is being forwarded to Brisbane by &#39;the 8S. <inline font-style="italic">Burmah,</inline> on the 22-nd instant. Every effort is being made to expedite the dyeing of the remainder of the clothing by the contractors, and it is hoped that the balance for Queensland will be shipped to Brisbane on Friday week. </para>
        </talk.start>
        <para>Yesterday the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> referred to an auction s.a&#39;le of naval stores which it is proposed to hold at Garden Island to-day, and asked that all such equipment . that might be used by unemployed&#39; citizens be diverted to that end instead of being auctioned. I promised to look into the matter, and am now in a position to inform the honorable member that, according to the printed catalogue for the sale . commencing at Garden Island to-day, there is no clothing to be sold. There are, however, a few condemned counterpanes and sheets, but it is possible that other items since declared unserviceable have been included in the sale, as is usual in such cases. Thp Captain Superintendent, Sydney, was therefore instructed to withdraw from sale any clothing or bedding which might be suitable for the relief of distress, and to forward particulars of all such articles to the Navy Office. Action had already been taken to reserve any blankets suitable for issue to relieve distress. No blankets, therefore, appear in the printed catalogue. </para>
        <para>Yesterday the honorable member for Corangamite <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Crouch)</inline> stated that the Camperdown drill hall is unused and unoccupied, and asked if arrangements could be made to allow it to be used for the housing of unemployed persons. I promised to make inquiries, and inform the honorable member. I am now in a position to state that the Camperdown drill hall is used for. military purposes, a troop of -the 4th Light Horse Regiment being stationed there. This . unit has stores in the hall,and . uses it for tra&#39;ining purposes. There isno record of any application prior to this for the use of the hall for unemployed. </para>
      </speech>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>ROYAL AGRICULTURAL SOCIETY SHOW</title>
        <page.no>2102</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Military Display</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2102</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>A48</name.id>
              <electorate>MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CHIFLEY, Ben</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CHIFLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- On the 14th May, the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> asked what . expense was incurred bythe Government in connexion with a military display -at the recent Royal Agricultural Society . show at Sydney. I am now in a position to inform the honorable member that -the arrangement made was that the Royal Agricultural Society would bear any outofpocket expenses in connexion with the display. No expenditure was incurred by the Government in regard to &#34;this matter. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>TARIFF BOARD REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>2102</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>2102</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name.id>F4U</name.id>
            <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
            <party>ALP</party>
            <role>Minister for Trade . and &#39;Customs</role>
            <in.gov>1</in.gov>
            <first.speech>0</first.speech>
            <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
            <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
          </talker>
          <para>. - I lay the following papers on the table of &#39;the House :  - </para>
        </talk.start>
      </speech>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tariff Board - Reports and Recommendations -</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bismuth Metal and Bismuth Salts</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Brasswork, Bronzework and Gunmetal Work for General Engineering and Plumbing and other trades. </para>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Coir Matting</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ginger</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Marble</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Oil and Spirit Heating and Cooking Appliances</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Smoothing and Soldering Irons</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Terry Cloth</title>
          <page.no>2102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Whiting and Paris White,  and move - </para>
        <para>That  the  papers be printed. </para>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2102</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFS</name.id>
              <electorate>Henty</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- It has been made clear over and over again during the course of the tariff debate that the Government has paid no attention whatever to the reports of the Tariff Board, and in view  of  that fact, I urge the  Government,  on the ground  of  economy, to abolish the Tariff Board, and pay off its members. To keep the board in existence would be a sheer waste  of  money, seeing that the Government persistently disregards its findings. At present the Government is playing a game  of make-believe. The board goes through the pretence of holding inquiries; it has long and expensive sittings&#39; - expensive not only to the Government, but to manufacturers and other interested parties - and then, when finally it presents a report, no notice whatever is taken of it. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The pretence is not on the part of the board. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No ; it is on the part of the Government, which is worse. The sham of these inquiries must be evident to every honorable member. Why maintain this useless and costly tribunal when the Government ignores its findings if it thinks fit ? Why go through the farce day after day of presenting to this House the board&#39;s reports, which have cost so much to prepare, and which will cost a good deal more to print. The Government makes a great parade of certain little economies. Last night, for example, we heard of the Government&#39;s proposal to abolish the Commonwealth Physical Training Staff, which has been engaged in training the youth in our schools. It is claimed that &#163;4,000 will be saved in this way, but I am confident that the cost of the Tariff Board inquiries, and of printing its reports, amounts to more than &#163;4,000. We are not justified at this time in continuing such expense when the board&#39;s reports are merely brushed aside with contempt by the Minister, if they do not suit him or his friends. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2103</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - If honorable members do not wish the Tariff Board&#39;s reports to be printed, we can certainly save money by not. having it done, but up to the present the printing has been undertaken for the convenience of honorable members themselves. Honorable members must recognize that the Tariff Board is an advisory body to which certain subjects are referred for inquiry and report. The Government or the Minister, however, is not bound to follow the advice of the board in all matters. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Government has not followed its advice in any particular. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Government has adopted many of its recommendations, and they are embodied in the tariff schedule. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Yes, when it has suited the Government. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No Government has felt itself bound to adopt all the recommendations of the Tariff Board. About a fortnight ago the honorable member for Lilley <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Mackay)</inline> quoted in the House a passage in the Tariff Board annual report for 1928, which took the Minister for Customs <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Pratten)</inline> to task . for not following the recommendations of the board. At that time it was complained that the Minister had departed from the board&#39;s recommendations when it suited him. The representations of the honorable member for Henty <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gullett)</inline> to the effect that it might be advisable to abolish the board will receive consideration, as will any additional particulars he may care to add in support of his contention. This Government gives full consideration to the reports of the Tariff Board ; it adopts some and does not. adopt others, and in so doing is following the example set by the Minister for Customs in the last . Government. When <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Pratten</inline> was criticized in 1928 for acting in that way, he said that the Tariff Board was merely an advisory body, and that a government was not bound to carry out its recommendations - that the board was not. above Parliament, but that Parliament was supreme. That is the stand which the present Government takes. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>TARIFF</title>
        <page.no>2103</page.no>
        <type>miscellaneous</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Duties</title>
          <page.no>2103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>
          <inline font-style="italic">In Committee of Ways and Means:</inline>Consideration resumed from the 19th May <inline font-style="italic">(vide</inline> page 20.67), on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Forde-</inline></para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the schedule to the customs tariff be amended - </para>
        </quote>
        <para>Division V. - Textiles, Felts and Furs, and Manufactures thereof, and Attire. </para>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Item 105</title>
          <page.no>2103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para class="block">By omitting the whole of sub-item (a) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: - </para>
        <list type="loweralpha">
          <item label="(a)">
            <para>(1) (a) Cotton, linen, and other piece goods, n.e.i., ad val. British, 5 per cent., intermediate, 15 per cent., general, 25 per cent. </para>
          </item>
        </list>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2104</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>C7E</name.id>
              <electorate>Cowper</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
              <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Under this item it is proposed to place a revenue duty of 5 per cent, on British textiles. I do not think that the Government is justified in raising revenue from the necessary clothing of the peopled: . I am prepared, in. the special circumstances in which we find ourselves, to agree to the imposition of revenue duties on luxuries, and the other day, for instance, I supported the increased duties on brandy and whisky for that reason. Such commodities  ure  undoubtedly luxuries, but that cannot  be  said of the clothing of the people. The fact that such articles are as expensive as they are to-day is one of the chief causes for our delay in returning to anything like normal trading conditions. The prices of textiles in Australia has  remained practically at the same level for years, while in Britain the price of textiles has declined even more than has the price of primary products. Professor Copland pointed out recently that, as compared with the 1926 figures, there had been practically no fall in- the price of finished goods in Australia, but that during the same period the price of the raw products which enter into the manufacture of the necessaries^ of life, had declined by 40 per cent. He went on to say that the whole of the decline in the cost of living has come from the fall in the price of raw products from the farm. We should take steps to bring down as quickly as possible the price of manufactured goods. If  Ave  can do that we shall be able to restore the buying power of their wages to our workers. At the beginning of this year the Federal Arbitration Court reduced the standard basic wage by 10 per cent., which lowered the purchasing,power of the wageearners. Certain cost of living reductions also occurred; but as they made  no  change in the purchasing power I shall not further consider them at the moment. When, concurrently with that wage reduction, the Government imposed duties which increase the prices of textiles and other necessaries, th depreciation of the purchasing power of the wage-earners is very great, indeed. It must be remembered that these are not protective duties; that these articles cannot be made in Australia. The tax was imposed because the  Government  realized that huge quantities of these piece goods are imported, and that a duty of 5 per cent, would bring between &#163;200,000 and &#163;300,000 per annum in our revenue. Every economist of standing agrees that until there is a closing up of the margin that exists between the wholesale and retail prices we cannot expect a general trade recovery. Our great exportable raw materials have slumped. It is interesting to review the position in Great Britain. The following statistics are from <inline font-style="italic">The Economist</inline> of the 10th January, 1931 .--Taking the 1927 index number as 100, it is disclosed that in 1924 the index number for textiles was 136. S, while at the end of December, 1930, it was 51.4, a difference of 85.4. The fall in the price of textiles in Great Britain has been much greater than that in the price of cereals or the drop in wages. Dealing then with the price of cereals and meat, and putting the 1913 index number as 100, it is shown that the average index number for 1924 was 168.5, whereas at the end of December, 1930, it was 103.3. For the same years the index numbers for textiles were 214.7 and 80.7. It is apparent that in Great Britain the purchasing power of wages is relatively materially better than in Australia. In an endeavour to lift the load from our wage-earners and the community generally as quickly as possible, I move - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>That the item be amended by adding to sub-item (a) (1) <inline font-style="italic">&#91;a)</inline> the following: - &#34;And on and after the 21st May, 1931 (a) (1) <inline font-style="italic">(a).</inline> Cotton, linen, and other piece goods, n.e.i., ad val., British, free; intermediate, 5 per cent.; general, 15 per cent.&#34; </para>
          </quote>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Is it not possible to manufacture these goods in Australia? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>C7E</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
                <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No. Whereas these goods previously came into Australia free under the British preferential tariff, they now carry an impost duty of 5 per cent, under that tariff, 15 per cent, under the intermediate tariff, and 25 per cent, under the general tariff. I commend my amendment to the committee as an honest endeavour to reduce the price of these necessaries. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2104</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
              <electorate>Warringah</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - This is another of the duties which are too high. The imposition of excessive duties of this nature entirely removes the element of competition. It simply means that none of these goods will be imported, and that Australian production will be limited to very few designs. There will be no competition to compel our manufacturers to improve the quality of their output. In the past, huge importations of piece goods have brought considerable revenue to the Commonwealth. Duties such as are now imposed will reduce that revenue, and make it necessary to impose other taxation to make up the deficit. I object to these duties, first because they are too high, secondly, because by reducing them our revenue will improve, and thirdly, as was pointed out by the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page),</inline> because these commodities are in every-day use by the wage-earners. If these duties are maintained, the price charged for necessary articles of apparel will be beyond the means of those who most need them, a most regrettable position, particularly in winter. It is extraordinary that a Labour Government should seek to penalize the working section of the community in such a fashion. I support the amendment. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2105</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KV8</name.id>
              <electorate>Wimmera</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
              <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- 1 also support the amendment moved by the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page).</inline> Honorable members should keep in mind the excessively high rate of these duties, particularly in view of the fact that Australian manufacturers have at their command the cheapest and finest raw material that is obtainable in the world. Our manufacturers have many advantages over their overseas competitors. - They may purchase wool at the wool sales during the morning and have it transported to their factories and begin to process it the same afternoon, with the result that the completed article can be available for sale the following week. Contrast that with the position of their overseas competitors. They have to -purchase the wool, and arrange for its shipment to their home country. That means a delay of between five and six weeks. The wool has then to be transported to the factories, scoured, and made into garments. Freight has to be paid on all waste. After a lapse of months, the completed articles are sent back to Australia. All that time overseas manufacturers ave standing out of the money that they paid for the raw material and for the manufacturing processes. In view of all those advantages there is something wrong when Australian textile manufacturers cannot compete in the local market without the aid of an exorbitant duty. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYV</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr E RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The honorable member forgets the mass production that obtains overseas. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is a very plausible theory. Our experience of mass production is that the bigger industries become in Australia the more clamorous they are for higher and still higher duties. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>I wish to refer to an aspect of this subject to which the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> directed attention last night. The honorable gentleman read a letter from the  president  of a certain trade union, in which the request was made that the Government should postpone consideration of this and similar items, because the employers were seeking a reduction of wages. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  That letter represented the views of the organized workers in this industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister himself has made the statement that certain manufacturers had been granted protection on the understanding that they would not make an application to the Arbitration Court, or to any other tribunal for a reduction of wages. That, I submit, is a very dangerous procedure. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I should like the honorable member to indicate the occasion on which I am supposed to have made such a statement. It is true that when the match-making industry was under consideration I said that the manufacturers had decided not to proceed with their application for a reduction of wages. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Unless I am very much mistaken, the Minister has also said that he would regard with disfavour the action of any manufacturer who applied for an increase in existing duties while he was making an application to the Arbitration Court, or other tribunal, for a reduction of wages. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I said that it would not be honest for a manufacturer to apply for an increase of duty, and, after it was granted, seek a reduction of wages or a lengthening of working hours. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister said that, if that were done, he would consider removing the duty. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is so. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister has made, with great clarity, the point to which I am directing attention. The honorable member for East Sydney urged that the consideration of this item should be postponed in order that the Government and the manufacturers and workers engaged in this industry might enter into collusion- </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Crouch</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Agreement. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member can use the word agreement if he desires; but if a government, on the one hand, and the manufacturers and employees on the other, make an arrangement in regard to wages and conditions, in consideration of which additional protection is granted, I suggest that it could rightly be regarded as collusion among the parties concerned, for the interests of the general public would not be considered. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>The Minister has also directed attention to the Tariff Board, and said that it is not a body of experts. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I said that the  chairman  of the board was the second official of the Customs Department, and that he and the secretary of the board were experts; but that the other members of it did not know very much about customs duties when they were appointed. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister certainly did exempt the  chairman  when he said that the board was not composed of experts, but he went on to say that, in his department, he had the services of a body of experts. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is true. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It would be in teresting to hear the Minister&#39;s definition of expert. Judging by his well-known en- . thusiasm for high duties, I would say that he would regard a person with a belief in high protection as an expert. Presumably, the higher the duty a person would recommend, the greater the expert he would be considered. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Oh no ! </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member for Gippsland <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Paterson),</inline> with his flair for figures, has calculated that the duties imposed in respect of certain items in the schedule are equivalent to a protection of some thousands per cent. I suppose that the person who recommended the application of those duties would be regarded as the &#34; noblest Roman of them all &#34;. There is, undoubtedly, to-day, with or without the knowledge of the Minister, a conspiracy between certain organized employers and employees to keep prices up to a high level, with the assistance of heavy customs duties. Many of the duties in this schedule are absurdly high and far outside the realm of reasonable protection. I believe that this schedule will go down in history as that which provided the highest duties, and this will be regarded as the period of our fiscal madness. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2106</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- As I pointed out last night, the revenue duty imposed on the item under notice is estimated to yield &#163;265,000. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KIT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MACKAY, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Mackay</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- When was that estimate made ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It was first made some time ago; but it was recently reviewed. It allows for a decline of 40 per cent, on the figures for 1929-30 in the importation of the goods affected. I . point out that great Britain has been given an additional preference of 5 per cent. I wish it were not necessary to raise &#163;265,000 of revenue by this means ; but in the existing circumstances we cannot avoid it. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Stewart</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- -What about lifting some of the embargoes? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have that under consideration at present. When this Government came into office it was faced with a huge adverse trade balance. To rectify that, it imposed increased duties and embargoes. As a result of that policy an adverse trade balance of &#163;13,000,000 for the first eight months ending February, 1930, has been changed into a favorable trade balance of &#163;6,000,000 for the eight months ending March, 1931. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Stewart</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- There were other factors, including exchange. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I agree that there were other factors, but the prohibitions imposed by &#39; the- Government contributed largely to the favorable trade balance. Honorable members opposite who have asked that revenue duties be removed, have had a good deal to say about the  necessity for balancing the budget and for raising revenue; but when the Government suggests a means of raising revenue it is criticized by honorable members opposite. They say that reductions should be made in this or that tax, but when we propose to curtail expenditure all sorts of objections are raised. When the Minister for Defence <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Chifley)</inline> eliminated certain activities in respect of physicial culture in State schools, he was immediately asked to restore that expenditure. Honorable members opposite cannot have it both ways. If they are sincere in their desire to balance the budget they should at least allow the Government to raise sufficient revenue to enable it to meet the cost of certain very necessary social services, such as invalid and old-age pensions, the maternity bonus, and a reasonable remuneration to public servants. The Governments of Australia are faced with a huge deficit of approximately &#163;15,000,000 at the end of the coming financial year. The Commonwealth deficit will inevitably be large, and, if we do not attempt to rectify it, we shall be subject to considerable criticism from honorable members opposite. We have saved &#163;3,500,000 in respect of the cost of government. Extra tariff revenue is necessary to enable us to pay for the necessary services of the Commonwealth, and I sincerely hope that the committee will not reduce this item. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2107</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
              <electorate>Martin</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Has the Minister given any consideration to the suggestion made yesterday that, in view of the circumstances related in the letter from the Textile Workers Union, the discussion of this division be deferred ? </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The item at present under consideration is a revenue producing item relating to imported cotton piece goods, and in accordance with the promise that I have given to the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page)</inline> the next item for discussion will be item 51. When that is disposed of we shall discuss the other items relating to cotton and knitted goods. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I wish to know whether the department can say whether any encouragement is likely to be given to Australian industries now or in the remote future, by the imposition of these revenue duties? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  That is difficult to say at present, but there has been such a rapid development in secondary industries that I shall not be surprised if new industries are established as a result of some of these tariff items. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- These duties have been imposed entirely for revenue purposes, with no intention on the part of the Government to assist in establishing industries within Australia. These duties are really camouflaged attempts to reduce the wages of the workers. Yesterday, my colleague and I indicated our views with respect to the duty on tea, and we are adopting a similar attitude on this item. The Government contends that revenue is needed in order that the budget may be balanced. No one denies that; but we say that the process now being adopted in order to obtain that revenue is iniquitous. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2107</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JVR</name.id>
              <electorate>Perth</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">NAIRN, Walter</name>
              <name role="display">Mr NAIRN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- It is refreshing to me to learn that the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> has at last seen the light. He has openly stated that the excessive tariffs imposed by this Government have had the effect of reducing the wages of the worker.?. This is the first time that that admission has been made by representative Labour in this chamber, and I think the honorable member&#39;s attitude does him much credit. Some 15 months ago, the present Minister brought in many revenue items, including the item that we are now discussing. I remember his flamboyant statement about the hundreds of thousands of persons who would obtain employment as the result of the tariff which he was then introducing. Unfortunately, in the majority of instances, his anticipations have not been realized. The manufacture of many lines, as then promised, has not even been commenced, and the tariff has utterly failed in its object. The ruse now adopted by the Minister to escape from the just criticism of the Opposition is to state that these items are purely for revenue purposes. I remember the protestations of the Minister and his colleagues that the increased duties were being imposed, not for revenue purposes, because that would have the effect of raising prices, and so  011, but for purely protective purposes, with the object of establishing industries in Australia. The honorable member for Wimmera <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Stewart)</inline> touched on an important point when he referred to the agreements entered into between the Labour unions and the manufacturers. The employers and the employees in industry, working in concert, and with the connivance of the Government of the day, were able to raise prices to the community to their own mutual satisfaction. There were many such instances even before the present Government took office. The shipping industry afforded a striking example. For years, the employers  and the employees agreed upon a consistent series of increases in freights and passage money which were passed on to the public until the time came when the people could not afford the high charges. As a result the shipping trade diminished, and the shippers and their employees were soon in a worse position than before. Coal-mining is another magnificent example of an Australian industry which has been almost ruined because of the conspiracy entered into between the employers and the employees, connived at by the Government of the day. The sugar industry has been subjected, to some extent, to similar treatment, as have also those manufacturing cigars, confectionery, matches, iron and steel, particularly sheet iron. My chief objection to the present method of framing the tariff is that it permits of a combination of the employers and employees in industry, to the detriment of the consuming public. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2108</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JOG</name.id>
              <electorate>Oxley</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">BAYLEY, James</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BAYLEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I support the amendment. Many of the articles under this item are not manufactured in Australia and, therefore, the Minister cannot claim that the duty is protective. Moreover some of these articles are the raw material of other branches of manufacture, and the imposition of additional duties upon them merely increases the ultimate cost of manufactured goods. The Minister whenever he finds himself hard pressed to defend an item at once leans on the revenue, and points out that, although the duty is excessive and cannot be justified as a protective measure, the revenue must be safeguarded. Members of the Opposition consider that there are other avenues for the raising of revenue that are preferable to duties which have no other effect than to increase <inline font-style="italic">t)ie</inline> cost of living, particularly to the workers. Sheetings, flannelettes, cretonnes, and shirtings, are bought in proportionately greater quantities by the workers than by other sections of the community, and I am glad that honorable members in the Ministerial corner realize that these imposts can only add to the cost of living of the working classes. The Minister has stated that it is necessary to impose these revenue duties if the assistance given to the people by way of pensions and bounties is to be continued. It is an unsound and illogical policy which gives to a pensioner &#163;1 a week with one hand, and with the other hand takes from him by increasing the price of the necessaries of life. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2108</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KX7</name.id>
              <electorate>East Sydney</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The group to which I belong believes that revenue can be raised by methods different from those proposed by either the Government or the self-professed friends of the workers on the Opposition side. We do not want the patronage of those honorable gentleman who have welcomed our opposition to this item. We prefer their censure, because their applause causes us to examine very closely our attitude. We have been told that the employers and workers have been conspiring to raise duties. The members of the Opposition are merely the marionettes of the financial institutions whose bidding they are sent here to do. I am under no misapprehension regarding the sincerity of their professed interest for the workers. Only yesterday one of their number said that water was good enough for the workers to drink, and to that sentiment, another member of the Opposition said, &#34;Hear, hear.&#34; </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gregory</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Nonsense ! </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member now realizes that the prospects of the United Australian party will be damaged when the fact becomes known that its members consider that water is a good enough beverage for the workers. The Minister has admitted that this item is for revenue &#39; purposes only. It is not right to raise revenue at the expense of the workers. If the Government must have additional funds, it should be courageous enough to tackle the international boodlers who have been fleecing Australia for many years. If it will do that it will have the support of the group to&#39; which I belong. If the item were to protect an existing industry, or make possible the establishment of a new one which would give employment to our workers, I would be disposed to support it; but as the Minister has said that the duty is imposed for revenue purposes only, and has adduced no reason why a representative of Labour should support it, I shall vote against it. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2109</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
              <electorate>Wide Bay</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - The real explanation of the opposition of the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> to this item is that he knows that the Government has a majority without the support of his group.  His  political principles are never allowed to endanger the existence of the Government. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- On a point of order, I suggest that the honorable member&#39;s observations are not relevant to the item. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).I</inline> am waiting for the honorable member for Wide Bay to connect his remarks with the item. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member for East Sydney said that members of the Opposition are here to do the bidding of the big financial interests. That is not correct. But he cannot deny that he acts according to the dictates of his Soviet friends. The item before the committee includes all cotton piece goods, many of which are not made, or proposed to be made, in Australia. Therefore, the Minister does not claim that this duty will provide employment for Australian workers or&#34; promote the use of Australian raw material. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Stewart</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- He has admitted that it is purely and simply a tax. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is a tax to raise more funds for the Government, which, because of its unfortunate policy, has not been able to obtain financial accommodation in other ways. It is unjust that the workers should be penalized by the increased duty of 5 per cent. ; the 25 per cent, duty in the general tariff is immaterial, because most cotton goods are obtained from the United Kingdom. The worker who cannot afford to buy woollens is dependent on cotton goods, and I regret that the Minister has not seen fit to accept a reasonable amendment. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2109</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate>Balaclava</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The honorable member for East Sydney read a letter from a union, which stated that the manufacturers who are benefiting by the new duties are now applying for a reduction of the wages of their employees, and have not reduced the prices of their goods. That was merely a clever piece of propaganda intended to mislead the committee and bring, the workers further under the thumb of <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lang.</inline> The Textile Workers Federation covers all States but New South Wales and Queensland. In New South Wales a 44-hour week obtains, and the rates of ay are different from those in other States.  Consequently, the employers in that State have either to remove their industry to Victoria, in which most, of the mills are situated, or apply to be brought under the Federal Arbitration Court. They have followed the latter course, and that has necessitated the serving of a log on every employee in the trade. The information given to the committee in regard to prices was absolutely misleading. Manufacturers are carrying on under great difficulties, and whether they wish it or not, competition is forcing down prices. I am informed by the Woollen Manufacturers Association that 20,000 new patterns of dress goods are being made, that &#163;190,000 has been expended on new buildings and plant, and that in the 28 mills in Australia, the average price reduction has been 21 per cent. That is true, not only of States covered by federal awards, but of New South Wales also. I hope those facts will dispose of the electioneering tactics that have been adopted by the representatives in this chamber of the Lang gang. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2109</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K0A</name.id>
              <electorate>Angas</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GABB, Joel</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GABB</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I intend to support the Government in imposing a British preferential duty of 5 per cent, on cotton, linen, and other piece goods. I recognize that this is not a protective duty, but distinctly a revenue-producing one. I take the same stand in regard to this impost as I did yesterday with respect to the tea duties. I support it because revenue must be found. I am somewhat surprised that certain members on the Opposition side are opposed to this duty, but the views expressed by members of the Lang group cause no astonishment, since their party does not believe in paying anything at all. I hope that these members will not repeat the inaccurate statement made yesterday that I had declared that water was good enough for the workers. While I favour this revenue duty on cotton and linen goods, I ask the honorable member on my left, who misrepresented me yesterday, not to say that I announced to-day that fig leaves were sufficient clothing for the workers. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2110</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JWT</name.id>
              <electorate>Moreton</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- This increase of duty on cotton piece goods is one of the few imposts in support of which sound argument can be found. The country needs revenue. About &#163;13,000,000 worth of cotton goods are imported annually, and, as an extreme measure, the imposition of this duty is justified. This is practically the largest single import item in our list of imports. We must raise funds to meet the extraordinary deficit which faces the country, and this very large item of imports gives us a field of indirect taxation that cannot be entirely overlooked. The impost is only 5 per cent. Had the Government taken other steps, it would not have been necessary to resort to this impost. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- What other steps might have been taken? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister has already asked that question three times a day for the last week, and on each occasion he has been given the same reply. I ask him and his Government to honour the Melbourne agreement, to which it appended its signature. Had the Government done that, we should now have been well on towards a solution of our budget problems. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hill,</inline> the Labour Premier of South Australia, has declared that the Prime Minister <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Scullin),</inline> on his return from the Imperial Conference, told him that if the Federal Government and the various State Governments had honoured the Melbourne agreement, Australia would now. have been &#34; round the corner &#34;, and the problems facing us at the present time would have been solved long ago. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Does the honorable member call <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hill</inline> a Labour Premier? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Yes, and further, the steps he has taken, to honour the terms of the Melbourne conference have been endorsed by the trade unions of South Australia. We must recognize that we are passing through difficult times, and we should not, ostrich-like, turn our eyes away from dangers in the hope of escaping from them. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2110</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFE</name.id>
              <electorate>Swan</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I would agree to this duty if the Government were not giving away so much in other directions; but while the Government gives money away, I object to assisting the Ministry to raise any further revenue through the tariff. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2110</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFS</name.id>
              <electorate>Henty</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I find myself in a difficulty over this item. I know that the Government must have more revenue, but its need is due mainly to its own shortcomings. Had it adopted a sound financial policy, and made a sincere effort, by economies, to balance its budget, an odious revenue duty of this kind need not have been imposed. This is a most objectionable impost, because it is placed on raw materials. It is a tax levied at the bottom, and by the time it reaches the people in the increase in price of made-up goods, it will represent, not 5 per cent., but at least 10 per cent. The Government imposes a high duty to enable manufacturers to turn out cotton goods in Australia, and then it proceeds to tax the raw material. Such a procedure shows an entire absence of intelligent contact between the Treasury and the Customs Department. The Minister for Trade and Customs should not entertain a request from the Treasury that a tax be imposed on the raw material of a protected industry. I support all that has been said by way of objection to this impost, because very largely it means a charge upon the wearing apparel of the workers, and is, therefore, a straight-out tax on wages, thereby adding directly to the cost of production. The Government, however, will not resort to sound financial methods, but since revenue must be found, I will support the tax; the responsibility for which must rest entirely upon the Government. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question - That the amendment (Dr. Earle Page&#39;s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>19</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>37</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority . .  . . 18 </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_14_1_3_P.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_14_1_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_14_1_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para class="block">Question so resolved in the negative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para class="block">Amendment negatived. </para>
          <para class="block">Item postponed. </para>
        </division>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponed Item 51 -</title>
          <page.no>2111</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <quote>
          <para class="block">By omitting the whole of sub-item (c) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: - &#34;(c) Preserved in tins or other air-tight vesselB including the weight of liquid contents - </para>
          <list type="decimal">
            <item label="(1)">
              <para>Salmon, per lb, British,1d.: intermediate,1&#189;d. ; general, 4d. </para>
            </item>
            <item label="(2)">
              <para>Other, per lb., British,1d.; intermediate, lid. ; general, 2&#189;d.&#34; </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </quote>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2111</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>C7E</name.id>
              <electorate>Cowper</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
              <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I thank the Minister for Trade and Customs <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Forde)</inline> for the courtesy which he extended to me last week by postponing the consideration of this important item. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">An increase in the general duty on this item has been imposed, and I understand that this has been done simply for the purpose of securing revenue. I am quite prepared to assist the Minister in that direction, if he will give me an assurance that a certain proportion of the money to be obtained, which, I- understand, will be a substantial sum, will be used for the purpose of assisting the establishment of the fish industry in Australia on a fairly large scale. In 1927, a conference of representatives of the various Governments of Australia, Commonwealth and State, was held to deal with this subject. A number of sub-committees of the conference sat during the following two years, and the conference finally reported to the Commonwealth Government in July, 1929. Nothing has been done in connexion with that report, which stated that the industry, if properly developed, would render unnecessary the importation of &#163;1,500,000 worth of fish each year into Australia, and would provide employment for 18,000 men. Moreover, the fishing industry would prove an admirable training ground for naval recruits. During the war it was found in Great Britain that the men of the fishing fleets were able, better than any one else, to undertake the work of minesweeping. For several years past the average annual importation of fish into Australia has been about 15,000 tons. Its value is approximately &#163;1,500,000, and this is in addition to the manures, oils, and glue which are obtained from fish,, and which are imported for stockfeeding and fertilizing purposes. As showing how the public taste for fish has increased, I may point out that in 1901, at the time of federation, Australia imported only &#163;334,000 worth of fish, and two years later it was &#163;1,500,000. The Australian production of fish in 1901 was valued at &#163;325,000, whereas for 1929 it was valued at &#163;1,200,000. Although there has thus been a marked increase in the consumption of fish, &#39; that increase would be much greater if it were possible to distribute fresh fish over a wider area, and if the industry were assisted by a scientific investigation into the habits of the fish which are to be found along our coasts to permit of them being sold cheaply to the people of Australia. </para>
          <para class="block">The consumption of fish in Australia has increased by nearly 500 per cent, in the last 30 years, but Australia may still be described as fish-hungry. In this country we consume, on an average, 14 lb. of fish per head a year, while in Great Britain the consumption per head is about 45 lb. It is true that Australians eat much more meat than do British people, but then so do New Zealanders, who yet contrive to eat nearly twice as much fish as do Australians - about 20 lb. a head per annum. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Would Australians be better in health if they ate more fish? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>C7E</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
                <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have no doubt of it. We need a more diversified diet. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>I am convinced that, if the fishing industry were properly encouraged, we would be able to reduce our imports of fish almost to vanishing point, and before long would even be able to export fish to the East. We should take steps to garner the harvest of the sea, instead of devoting ourselves entirely to the harvest of the soil. </para>
          <para>What special opportunities has Australia for developing the fishing industry ? First of all, we have the longest coastline of any single country in the world. Australia is an island with a coast-line of 12,000 miles, along the greater portion of which edible fish is plentiful; yet we import &#163;1,500,000 worth of fish each year. With the exception of one or two places like Katoomba, the inland towns of Australia are entirely dependent on canned fish imported from overseas. As a result, fish is more or less a luxury in Australia, whereas, if it could be obtained at a price to suit our purse, we should find that it would suit our palates very well, also. At present about 6,000 men are employed in the fishing industry in Australia, but, if the industry were developed to the point of supplying the whole of the local market, that number could easily be increased to 18,000. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Why has it not been done? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>C7E</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
                <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The report of the conference has only recently been made available. We have been waiting for the necessary information. Fishing could be carried on in Australia under much more pleasant conditions than those experienced in most other countries where an extensive fishing industry exists. Our fishermen would not have to face the storms and cold which prevail in the North Sea between Great Britain and Europe, and on the fishing banks of Newfoundland. First of all, we need information to enable us to select and explore suitable fishing grounds off our coast, and then we must build up a fishing population to man the fleets. Even from the limited amount of information we now have, it is evident that abundant supplies of fish are available. New South Wales is the only State which., up to the present, has carried out any intensive investigation into the subject, aud it has been learned that on the New South Wales coast there are no fewer than 506 distinct species of fish fauna, of which at least 250 branches are found in sufficient quantities to make the catching of them a commercial proposition. We import, roughly, &#163;300,000worth of pilchards each year, and yet the seas of Eastern Australia simply teem with this variety of fish. It has been shown that we could use in Australia &#163;1,000,000 worth more of deep sea, trawled fish, the catching and preparation of which would employ 500 seamen on the trawlers, and at least 2,600 men on shore, if we cheapened and improved distribution and marketing in our inland towns. That would be in addition to those fishing in the estuaries along the coast, who also would be put on a much more stable basis. As to the possibilities of the industry, let me point out what took place in British Columbia, a country which has a smaller coastline than ours. In 1925 the authorities set out to encourage the fishing industry, and by the end of the year, not only had larger quantities of fish been marketed, but there had been produced 1,500 tons of fish meal for cattle and 500,000 gallons of oil. Three years later the industry produced 14,500 tons of meal valued at about &#163;300,000 and 3,667,000 gallons of fish oil, worth about &#163;700,000. A ready market is available for the by-products of the fishing industry. Germany imports 100,000 tons of fish meal each year for poultry and pig feeding, in addition to what is supplied by its own fishing industry. In the United States of America, which has a smaller coastline than ours, no fewer than 190,000 persons are employed in the  fishing industry and &#163;40,000,000 of capital is sunk in the trawling industry, fishing boats and canning establishments throughout the country. Last year the canning factories added &#163;22,000,000 to the value of the fish treated. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Before this industry can be properly developed in Australia further research work is necessary. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Kingsmill</inline> has been interested in this subject for many years, and at the Fish Conference to which I have referred he submitted proposals for the expenditure of between &#163;S,000 and &#163;9,000 a year on scientific trawling investigation, to be carried out in the existing boats. It was suggested that the Commonwealth Government should find the money for this work. A much more elaborate scheme, to cost between &#163;60,000 and &#163;70,000, was also put forward, but I do not press for its adoption. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Kingsmills</inline> more modest proposal would serve quite well as a beginning. Such an investigation would enable us to make certain that we can furnish all the year round a steady supply of fish to the public, and indicate its exact source. It is important that the supply should be continuous. The second important requirement is the provision of better means of distribution throughout Australia. It has been shown that by the process of quick freezing fish can be kept in good condition for as long as four months. The Commonwealth Government should negotiate with the State Governments with a view to having them provide proper transport facilities, so that the fish can be carried from the coast to the inland towns. Further, of the revenue derived from this increased duty, a certain amount should be made available for the payment of a bounty on the production of canned and smoked fish in Australia. Already a very fine quality of canned crayfish is on the market, equal to that produced in any other part of the world. The late <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. H.</inline> E. Pratten, who went into this matter many years ago when he was interested in the canning industry, stated on one occasion that the mullet, pilchards, and other fish to be had in the coastal waters of Australia were ideal for canning purposes. They contain such a quantity of oil that they are quite as good as salmon for canning purposes. I am confident that if the Government gave an immediate bounty, and an assurance that a protective duty would be imposed later, an industry would be established that would be of great importance to Australia. It was stated in the 1927-29 reports that the establishment of the Australian fishing industry on a national basis was of vital importance, not only to this country, but to the British Empire generally. At that time it was declared that to establish the industry in Australia, Great Britain was prepared to make available, at 1 per cent., some of the money set apart for migration purposes, in order that the British Empire might be made as selfcontained as possible from the point of view of food supplies. I urge the Minister to give the committee an assurance in connexion with the two recommendations I have put forward. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2113</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KLM</name.id>
              <electorate>MELBOURNE, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party>ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">MALONEY, William</name>
              <name role="display">Dr MALONEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I compliment the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page)</inline> on having delivered a speech which will well repay reading. Evidently he has gone into the subject exhaustively. The reason why fish is more plentiful and cheaper in England and in New Zealand than in Australia is that its distribution in those countries is on a much more efficient basis than it is here. I speak as one who has resided for a considerable period in England, and for a lesser term in New Zealand. Australia has the longest coastline of any nation in the world, and we probably have the greatest variety of fish. I do not claim that we surpass the colder waters of Northern Europe, but I do say that on the west coast of Tasmania millions of tons of fish go to waste annually. A maritime captain once drew my attention to millions of mutton birds cruising about that locality. He told me that they were existing on great quantities of fish that, if properly tinned, would rival pilchards in quality. I have visited the sardine fisheries at Belle-Isle-en-Mer. in the Bay of Biscay, and have sampled their output when freshly cured. &#34;While I noticed a considerable difference between the flavour of pilchards and real sardines, I think the former a very edible fish. In fact, it is very frequently marketed as sardine. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>I rose specifically to seek the cooperation of the Government with regard to establishing the crustacean industry in Australia. I have known the manager of Australian Delicacies Company, of. Melbourne, since boyhood. He is a straight, true &#34;white&#34; man in every sense of the word. He has assured me that this industry has a great future in. Australia if given a degree of protection. I tasted lobster canned by the company, and I can say definitely that it was equal to anything produced in any other part of the world. The output of that factory, from the labels to the contents of the tins, is wholly Australian, saving only the tinned plate. It is interesting to know that the industry has also been established at Geraldton, Western Australia. My recommendation should, therefore, have the approval of the honorable 0 member for Swan <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gregory).</inline> I suggests - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That item 53 be amended by adding the word &#34; crustaceans &#34; after the word &#34; salmon.&#34;  &#34; Crustaceans &#34; would include crayfish, lobsters, crabs, prawns, and shrimps. I recommend that the duty should be 2&#189;d. British preferential, 3d. intermediate tariff, and 4d. general tariff. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>Only fifteen men are at present employed in the Tasmanian factory; but it must be remembered that the foreign opposition is strong. The management of the Australian Delicacies Company has given a definite undertaking that if the protection which is sought is granted the company will not raise its prices. On the other hand it will make a great endeavour&#39; to reduce them, so that the citizens of Australia may have an opportunity to obtain a wholesome and health-giving food at a reasonable price. The present factory is situated at Lady Barren on Flinders Island, which is in the Furneaux group. All of its employees are Australians. It is expected that an outlay of &#163;950 per week for labour and materials will be reached if this protection is granted the industry. </para>
          <para>Honorable members are aware that our waters teem with sharks. Shark fins are esteemed a delicacy in the East, and we should be able to cultivate a market for them. There is also a big trade in the East for dried prawn&#39;s. I have tasted the prawns that are being bottled in New South Wales, and I am confident that, in flavour and delicacy they suit the most exacting palate. I appeal to the Government to approve my suggestion, and I should be very proud indeed if I could convey that to the management and workers of that splendid factory in Tasmania. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2114</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JWT</name.id>
              <electorate>Moreton</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I support the proposal of the honorable member for Melbourne <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Maloney).</inline> If protection is given to the industry, Australia should be able to cater for the whole of its crustacean requirements. Our waters teem with crayfish, lobsters, crabs, prawns and other fish, and a serious endeavour should be made to exploit that valuable asset. It may interest honorable members to learn that in 1928, 600,000 lb. of crustaceans  were  imported into Australia; in 1929 the quantity was 900,000 lb., while last year it had grown to 1,200,000 lb.&#34; I am informed that that great increase occurred because Australia was made the dumping ground for that sort of fish from Asiatic countries. If accepted, the proposal of the honorable member for Melbourne would provide a reasonable protection for this young Australian industry, and would prevent further dumping from overseas during the period it requires to establish itself and develop. Most of our crustacean importations are of Asiatic origin. I am confident that the Australian product is of as high a quality as that imported, and that the industry warrants the protection of this Parliament. These and other fish are indigenous to Australia, while wheat is not. In Moreton Bay and along the shores of the Pacific Ocean, upon which my electorate abuts, fish of all kinds abound, and frequently the hauls are more than sufficient to provide for local requirements.&#39;  If all branches of this industry were properly encouraged there would be -an increased consumption of both ordinary fish and crustaceans, with a resultant decrease in the prices. A new industry with wonderful possibilities of development could thus be established, providing cheap and wholesome food for the people, and employment to hundreds of our workers. Western Australia is establishing a factory similar to that already operating in Tasmania, and I -see no reason why similar factories should not be located in New South </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Wales, Victoria and Queensland&#39;, where these products are available in great quantities. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2115</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFW</name.id>
              <electorate>Bass</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GUY, James Allan</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GUY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I gladly associate myself with -the- remarks of. the honorable member for Melbourne <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Maloney)</inline> in regard to this item. I also agree with the statement of the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page)</inline> that there is no necessity for us to import fish,, considering that we have such extensive and well-stocked fishing grounds available for exploitation near our coasts. In my opinion this item should be&#62; made more comprehensive. At present&#39; there is no classification whatever. The item reads - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>Fish,, viz. :  - </para>
          </quote>
          <list type="loweralpha">
            <item label="(c)">
              <para>Preserved in. tins: or. other air-tight, vessels including the weight of liquid contents - </para>
              <list type="decimal">
                <item label="(1)">
                  <para>Salmon, per lb.,1d., British preferential;1&#189;d&#39;.j intermediate ; 4d., general. </para>
                </item>
                <item label="(2)">
                  <para>Other, per lb.,1d., British. preferential;1&#189;d., intermediate; 2&#189;d., general. </para>
                </item>
              </list>
            </item>
          </list>
          <para class="block">I consider, with other honorable members, that, crustaceans should be included in the item as a special class-, seeing that, the importations of this class of fish to Australia amount to hundreds of thousands of pounds weight. Australia, is, unfortunately, unable to compete, under present, conditions, with the countries which are sending, crustaceans here. The definition of &#34; crustaceans &#34; includes, crayfish, lobster, prawns, crabs, and all like fish. The present duty on such fish is1d., British preferential ;1&#189;d., intermediate;., and 2&#189;d., general. If the increase suggested by the honorable member for Melbourne were, made, only the products of Asiatic countries,, with the exception of a very small quantity of fish which comes here from South Africa, would be affected. We import, no crustaceans from Canada, nor; with the exception that I have mentioned, from any other country within the. Empire. I regret that provision has been made for an increase in the duty an salmon only. Apparently, crustaceans are still to be admitted at 2&#189;d..&#39; per lb., although they come principally from Asiatic countries. I hope that the Minister can see his way clear to accept the- amendment suggested by- the- honorable member for Melbourne: </para>
          <para>A small population on Flinders. Island, in. the middle of Bass Strait, relies for- its maintenance- upon the mutton bird industry, plus a little fishing; but, owing, to. the lack of protection, fishing yields them only a bare existence. If an increase were made in the duties in, favour of . white Australian crayfish, these people would be able- to make a fair living. The request that has been made in this connexion is reasonable, and merits the sympathetic consideration of the Government. </para>
          <para>The fishing industry of Australia has not been developed as it should have been, although operations- are. being carried on in a small way in some of the States. I am glad that the bottling of prawns has been undertaken on a commercial scale in New. South Wales, and Western Australia has- started fish canning works. </para>
          <para>As the honorable member for Melbourne has said, the Australian Delicacies Company is now canning white Australian crayfish at Flinders Island. For the last five years this company has been working with the object of producing a good article to compete against imported crab, and I believe that it can now market a product equal, to the world&#39;s best. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Then why is a duty necessary ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFW</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GUY, James Allan</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GUY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is necessary because it is impossible to compete against the imported crab which is dumped in Australia. The weekly output of the company has now reached 60 cases of 5-dozen 7-oz. tins, equalling 1,800 lb. This output is equal to about 90,000 lb. per year. Given a small degree of encouragement, the company believes that its output can be increased enormously. According to official figures, our importations of crustaceans - mostly crab - from J apan totalled 669,072 lb. in 1928; 993,289 lb. in 1929.; and 1,214,719 lb. in 1930. As the honorable member for Moreton <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Francis)</inline> pointed out, our importations have almost doubled in two years. There is reason to believe that steps are being taken to dump, further quantities of these fish on the local market, for a good deal of difficulty has been experienced, lately in marketing the local product. In view of the-fact that mostof our importations of - these, fish are- from Asiatic countries, we should take steps to encourage the  local industry. If protected, the company could give a reasonable guarantee that it would supply the whole of our requirements, and that the product would be of high quality. If the protection asked for is granted, it will help to some extent, thought not greatly, to maintain a satisfactory trade balance. But what is of more importance is that a reasonable duty would make possible the provision of a certain amount of additional employment for our people, and give some encouragement to the fish-canning industry in Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>In this connexion, I quote the following statement of the case by a gentleman who is well qualified to express an opinion : - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>We are asking for no duty on the product of any country whore the standards of wages and labour conditions <inline font-style="italic">are</inline> akin to our own. lt is against coloured labour and against labour at poor wages and conditions that we ask for sonic protection, and also against the dumping of surplus stock which will arise from the contest between the Japanese and Russian production. </para>
            <para>The Australian manufacture is under Australian conditions, wages, hygiene, health, and factory provisions, to which the foreign trade 3s not subject, and we would be giving direct employment to 100 employees within a short period, and more as the industry develops. </para>
            <para>Other countries have lately lessened their demand for Australian goods, and we can be more self-contained, and lessen our demand for their goods, and thus assist the exchange position. </para>
            <para>The maintenance of this expanding industry is a stepping-stone to wider fish product industries, whereby &#39; unemployment can be lessened, and many Australian subsidiary industries helped. We are already producing other canned fish. </para>
            <para>The Japanese product is in the United States of America being undersold by another Asiatic product by two dollars per case. It is known that there are 20g,000 surplus cases of Japanese crab, stored from last year, waiting to be dumped on the first available market. This is more than enough for eighteen years&#39; supply of Australian needs. They will strain every effort to retain the Australian trade. Wherever there is a consuming market such market will get the surplus; and we believe irrespective of its production cost. Crustaceans are available for canning in all the States. With the granting of the duty, which is against Asiatic trade only, there opens up an outlay in materials and wages of &#163;000 a week as a first development, and the certainty of extension to other fish products. Even if no other enterprises arise, we can, if necessary, ourselves supply the whole Australian demand. </para>
            <para>We say there is no more reason to import crustaceans into Australia than there is to import wheat. </para>
            <para>We believe it will grow up a vigorous youth to remove the reproach -that Australia, with the greatest ocean  seaboard  in the world, cannot provide fish products for its own people. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">In the circumstances, I sincerely trust that the Government will give favorable consideration to the proposal of the honorable member for Melbourne, and so assist in building up a good Australian industry by protecting it from competition from foreign countries which rely on black labour. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2116</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JXL</name.id>
              <electorate>Franklin</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FROST, Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FROST</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I also support the proposal of the honorable member for Melbourne <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Maloney).</inline> I consider that a separate class should be made for crustaceans. We should foster the fishing industry. In Tasmania, because of the colder waters which surround our coast, we are able to obtain large quantities of first-class fish of practically all kinds. But the industry cannot be developed because of the lack of protection and the inadequate shipping service between Tasmania and the mainland. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Would it be possible to supply all our requirements? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JXL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FROST, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FROST</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Yes. I agree with the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page)</inline> that it is not necessary to make any further investigation of this subject. Comprehensive inquiries have been made into the extent and quality of our fishing grounds, and these show that there is no reason why we should not build up a valuable fishing industry. Tasmania has a long coast-line, and her waters contain an abundance of fish, particularly crayfish, lobsters, and smaller fish such as sardines. I believe that we could supply the requirements of the whole of Australia in these lines. But the industry needs development. I disagree with the suggestion of the right honorable member for Cowper that a bounty should be provided to meet the position. Those engaged in the industry are asking for a duty, and not a bounty. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- What prospects are there of making a success of the industry if protection is granted? &#39; </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JXL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FROST, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FROST</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Bona-fide companies are operating, and there is every reason to believe that they could supply the local  market. The industry at Flinders Island has passed the experimental stage. I believe the company intends to commence operations in other parts of the State, and also in &#34;Western Australia. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Would this lead to an increase in employment? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JXL</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FROST, Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FROST</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The industry would provide work for many additional hands. At present nearly all our fishing boats are idle, because it is impossible to ship our fish &#39;to the mainland owing to the inadequate shipping services. Given adequate protection, Tasmania could supply all the requirements of Australia, in certain classes of fish, at any rate. There is no need for the Government to go to the expense of finding fresh fishing grounds, because the grounds to which I have referred have already been tested. All the materials that are necessary for fishing, such as boats and nets, are available, so that there is no extra outlay required to enable this company to obtain sufficient fish to supply the Australian requirements. I have pleasure in supporting the suggestion of the honorable member for Melbourne, and I hope that the Minister will give every encouragement to this industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2117</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate>Balaclava</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- This appears to be a most suitable industry to be developed, and, I think, should be encouraged by all honorable members. There is often a division of opinion in respect of the encouragement of manufactures in Australia, but all honorable members will admit that, when we encourage a new industry which will be able to export, we are doing the right thing towards Australia. The only competition which this new&#39; company is facing at the moment is from Japan, which exports large quantities of fish to Australia. In 1930 it exported &#163;1,200,000 worth of fish to this country. That seems almost incredible. This Australian company deserves much credit for its enterprise. It has started operations on an island in Bass Strait, which is cut off from civilization to a large extent. Its development has been retarded because it is dealing at present only with the mutton bird industry. Now that its operations are extended to the canning of crayfish, additional employment will be provided, and the island will be brought into closer contact with the mainland. This com pany is not. out. to profiteer. If given tariff protection, it claims it will not increase prices; in fact, it hopes to reduce prices. I agree with the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page)</inline> that the inland towns of Australia suffer considerably because of the irregular and inadequate distribution of fish. In distribution methods we are a long way behind other parts of the world. In America fish undergoes a quick freezing process. It is then wrapped in wax paper, packed in cartons, and distributed throughout the country. Yet in Australia the provincial towns are almost cut off from the fish supply. This company, when it is not faced with the competition of Asiatic countries, will be able to supply the whole of the Australian market, and, in addition, export to the Pacific Islands, and perhaps further afield. We have an export trade in semi-primary products with the Dutch East&#39; Indies and with India, and there is no reason why that trade should not include canned fish. I support the suggestion of the honorable member for Melbourne <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Maloney).</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2117</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The suggestions that have been made by various honorable members will receive the sympathetic consideration of the Government. The right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page)</inline> suggested that any revenue obtained as a result of the small increase of l&#189;d. per lb. in the general tariff rate on salmon, might be utilized for the purpose of increasing our knowledge of Australian fishing grounds, and of providing a bounty on the production of fish in Australian waters. That suggestion, also, will be given consideration. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KEV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FENTON, James</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Fenton</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Is this item in any way affected by the proposed treaty with Canada ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The alteration in the general tariff was made so as to give certain preference to salmon from Canada. It is one of the items to be dealt with in connexion with the proposed Canadian treaty. Several honorable members have made certain suggestions regarding the duty on crustaceans, so as to enable the fish-canning industry to be established in Australia. Last week the honorable member for Melbourne <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr.</inline></para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Maloney) conferred with me on this subject, and as a result of his representations I instructed an investigation officer to inquire into the question of the- importation of Sinned fish and the quality of the Australian product.. His report is favorable to the Australian industry. I therefore move - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That the item&#39; be amended by adding the following: - &#34; And on and after the 21st May, 1931 - </para>
            <list type="loweralpha">
              <item label="(c)">
                <para>Preserved, in tins or other airtight vessels, including the weight of liquid contents - </para>
                <list type="decimal">
                  <item label="(1)">
                    <para>Salmon, per lb. - British; 1d.;. intermediate;1&#189;d..; general-, 4d. </para>
                  </item>
                  <item label="(2)">
                    <para>Crustaceans. per lb. - British, 2&#189;d. ; intermediate, 3d. ; general, 4d. </para>
                  </item>
                  <item label="(3)">
                    <para>Other, per lb. - British, 1d.; intermediate,1&#189;d.;  general, 2&#189;d. </para>
                  </item>
                </list>
              </item>
            </list>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The amendment provides for the imposition of an increased rate of duty on crustaceans, which cover crabs, lobsters, crayfish, prawns and shrimps. The object of the amendment is to provide adequate protection for an industry which has recently been established at Flinders Island, near Tasmania, Victoria, and in Western Australia. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KZR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr White</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Are oysters included? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No representations have been made to me about oysters. It is pleasing to note the development of this industry, and it is hoped that it will be a stepping stone to the establishment of fish-canning on a large scale. It is anomalous that Australia, whose coastal waters teem with edible fish, should not have possessed a single fish-canning factory before the establishment of this enterprise. Adequate scope exists for the development of this industry in Australia, and I trust that honorable members will accord to the pioneer companies the protection which is at present proposed. The Victorian company has invested &#163;4,000 in this undertaking, and is employing fourteen hands. Manufacture commenced in January last, and the output of the factory approximates &#163;2,000. Crayfish are caught in the Tasman Sea and Bass Straits and taken to Flinders Island for canning. New works have just been opened in Geraldton, Western Australia. A few minutes ago, I received the following telegram from Brown and; Dureau, Perth :  - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>One company Weedon- and Smith already operating Geraldton canning crayfish. Another packer named Hosking preparing operations expects commence production within three weeks. Quality satisfactory and our opinion Geraldton alone can supply total Australian requirements. Their productive power is only limited by the market outlet available. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">That firm is optimistic about the possibility of establishing a large fish-canning industry in Western Australia. I find on inquiry that the Australian article is superior to the imported article, and- that fact should help materially in ensuring its sale. Russian canned crab is making its appearance on the world&#39;s markets at prices with which the local industry at the old rates of duty cannot compete. It is known, that there are large quantities of imported brands of these goods on the market, and it is possible that for some time the local industry will not make any appreciable headway, but after the stocks of imported lines are disposed of, it is anticipated that employment will be found for 100 additional hands. The value of the importations of this class of canned fish, most of which are from Asiatic waters, is estimated at &#163;100,000 per annum. We imported in 1929-30, &#163;1,732,395 worth of fish. The value of the Australian production of fish was approximately &#163;1,590,000, and of oysters &#163;121,000. It will be seen that there is an abundance of edible fish in Australian waters, and that there is great scope for establishing the fishing industry and creating employment in Australia. The development of this industry has unfortunately been slow, and the method of transport and the marketing of supplies has not been satisfactorily dealt with. The State Governments of Queensland and New South Wales have carried out investigations in the trawling industry, with mixed success. Much remains to be done in the development of this industry before it will be able to satisfy the consuming capacity of the public. The Development and Migration Commission in 1927 conferred with representatives of the States in respect of the fishing industry of Australia, and itsreport is a valuable document. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- What does it say? . </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The report is long. I do mot wish to go into the whole of its details, so I shall hand it to the honorable member so that he may ascertain the nature of the inquiry. According to this report there are 220 men engaged at sea in. the fishing industry, and possibly 1,000 men handling fish on shore. The annual catch is estimated at 17,000,000 lb., valued at &#163;400,000. I hope that honorable members will agree to the amendment, because, if carried, it will give an impetus to this new industry. I hope that before long Australia will be able to satisfy its own requirements. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2119</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
              <electorate>Warringah</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  I have listened with great interest to the debate on the item of fish, and it has been most illuminating in that it shows the extraordinary and amazing manner in which the tariffs of this country are framed. The Minister made a statement regarding the fishing industry which upon analysis honorable members will find contains no real, solid or sound argument in favour of his contention. He refers to the reports that are available on this subject. I do not believe that he has read those reports. I do not believe that he knows the contents of the report of the Development and Migration Commission. He said that it was a most valuable document, but when I asked him what it contained, he made a facetious remark about handing it to me to read. That is not the way in which to construct tariffs. It is not the way to put forward sound arguments in favour of any proposal. Then the Minister, in order to weaken his case further, produced a telegram which he had received from Western Australia to the effect that a packer had got his pack ready and was going to proceed on an expedition, or something of that kind. The Minister&#39;s statement was most inconclusive and unimportant. Any one reading that statement would be amazed at the straits to which the Minister is reduced to defend his policy. We are told that the Australian waters teem with fish,_ there being from 500 to 600 edible varieties; but that, despite this abundance of natural wealth no industry can be established unless a substantial duty is imposed. That is not true. The industry can be developed without a duty, the only effect of which will be to increase the cost of canned fish. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The canners guarantee that the price will not be increased. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KLM</name.id>
                <electorate>MELBOURNE, VICTORIA</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MALONEY, William</name>
                <name role="display">Dr MALONEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I would not have spoken in their favour without such a guarantee. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- What is the worth of guarantees to which no penalty is attached? They are mere promises, the majority of which are never carried out. Merely because some person claims to be employing fifteen people in canning crayfish, this Parliament is asked to impose a duty on all crustaceans, without inquiries being made as to the bona fides of the industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  A full investigation has taken place. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No adequate inquiry has been made, but members have been influenced, and the result will be the imposition of duties which can have no other effect than to increase the price of canned fish. With all the natural advantages that the industry has, the freight and other charges borne by imported goods should be sufficient protection for it. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2119</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JWT</name.id>
              <electorate>Moreton</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Those who are canning crayfish have promised that in no circumstances will the price be increased. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Did they tell the honorable member that? They have not told me? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have that assurance in writing, and, therefore, the proposed duty should be accepted by the committee. Not only will the price not be increased, but there is every prospect of it being reduced, when the local factories, with the aid of this duty, are able to secure a much larger proportion of the Australian market. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Where will they get the olive oil for preserving the fish? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- They can get all the oil they require from the cotton fields of Queensland, or the olive groves of South Australia. This duty will enable the Australian people to buy canned crustaceans and other fish at prices considerably less than they now pay for fish imported from Asiatic countries. The honorable member for Warringah <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Parkhill)</inline> has struck the only discordant note; all other honorable members seem desirous to help to establish an Australian industry which will exploit the immense resources of fish in our coastal waters and make available to the people an important article of diet at reduced  prices. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2120</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K9H</name.id>
              <electorate>Robertson</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GARDNER, Sydney</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GARDNER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Will the Minister consider the inclusion of canned oysters? </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What about mussels and periwinkles? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K9H</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GARDNER, Sydney</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GARDNER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have already mentioned this matter to the Minister, who promised to consider it. I should like him to explain for what reason oysters have not been included in the amendment. My electorate includes Port Stephens and the Hawkesbury River, and those engaged in the oyster industry in those districts are experiencing a lean time. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Are they canning oysters ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K9H</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GARDNER, Sydney</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GARDNER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No, but they may be encouraged to do so. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2120</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - The honorable member for Robertson has made representations to me on this subject. There is an important oyster industry in his electorate, but no canning has been done yet. When the canningof oysters has been actually commenced, any further representations by the honorable member will be sympathetically considered. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2120</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate>Balaclava</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I hope that the honorable member for Warringah <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Parkhill)</inline> is not opposing this item on the principle that all duties should be opposed. Each item should be considered on it&#39;s merits. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  This one has no merits. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KZR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The duty is directed entirely against imports from Asiatic countries, and it will assist to put on its feet an Australian industry which is capable of exporting its products. That is the acid test; an industry that is capable of exporting is worthy of encouragement. The protection of this industry will not increase the price of canned crayfish to the consumers. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Not up to the price of the imported article? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KZR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What about keeping out red herrings from the Soviet? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KZR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is a pity we cannot keep out the political prawns already here. The duty will protect local canners against large importations of Asiatic or Soviet products. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2120</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JVZ</name.id>
              <electorate>BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party>LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CAMERON, Malcolm</name>
              <name role="display">Mr M CAMERON</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I am surprised at the attitude of the honorable member for Warringah; evidently he has not informed his mind in regard to this item. There is no more reason for importing crustaceans than for importing beef or mutton. They are to be found in hundreds of millions all round the Australian coast, and the very finest olive oil for preserving them is produced in South Australia, which alone is capable of supplying the whole of the Australian market with crayfish. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Amendment agreed to. </para>
          <para>Item, as amended, agreed to. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponed Item 105</title>
          <page.no>2120</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Paragraph (a) (1) (a) agreed to. </para>
        <list type="loweralpha">
          <item label="(a)">
            <para>(1)... </para>
          </item>
          <item label="(b)">
            <para>Otton Piece Goods ordinarily used for manufacture into outer clothing for human wear which in pattern design or appearance resemble woollen piece goods used for the same purpose and which weigh more than (i ounces per square yard (except piece goods enumerated in sub-item  (aa)  ) - the invoice selling price of which does not exceed the equivalent of 3s. 4d. per square yard, per square yard, British, 1s. 3d.; intermedia te. 2s.; general, 2s.6d.; and ad val., British, 35 per cent. ; intermediate, 45 per cent. ; general, 50 per cent. </para>
          </item>
        </list>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2120</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
              <electorate>Martin</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Willthe Minister state his intentions with regard to the representations made last night that the consideration of this item should be deferred. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  For what reason ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The reason was clearly stated in a letter read by the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> from the secretary of the Workers Textile Union of New South Wales, which stated, <inline font-style="italic">inter alia -</inline></para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>Since assisting the manufacturers to have their industries protected they have usedall the means they possess to lower our members&#39; wages and to debase their working conditions. </para>
            <para>In New South Wales the employers  took  full advantage of all the anti-working-class legislation passed by the Bavin Government. In Victoria, and other States covered by the federal awards, immediately the 10 per cent, reduction in the basic wage was ordered by the court, the employers were successful in having the reduction applied to their employees. The protection given to the industry has not benefited the workers engaged in it, therefore, if the manufacturers who were protected because they claimed they could only maintain the wages and conditions of the workers by the shutting out of imported goods, now seek to lower the wages and conditions after being guarded by the Labour Government against outside competition, then it is the view of the Labour Council of New South Wales and of my union that no good purpose can be served by supporting the employers in their tariff applications. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">In accordance with that view, we nave been asked to suggest that the consideration of this division be deferred until &#39; some attention has been paid to these representations. I move - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That the paragraph be postponed. </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2121</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate>Balaclava</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Why should the business of Parliament be held up because a letter from a trade union has been read by a member of the Lang group? I pointed out earlier that this request came from a New South Wales union that was not working under a federal award, and that the employers had served a log upon the union with a view to bringing its members under the jurisdiction of the Federal Arbitration Court; but this log applies to woollen mills only. The honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> is hopelessly confused between the case for cotton piece goods and that for woollen textiles. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2121</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KX7</name.id>
              <electorate>East Sydney</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- With all due respect to the member of the political razor gang who has just spoken- </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2121</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CHAIRMAN, The</name>
              <name role="display">The CHAIRMAN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I ask the honorable member to withdraw that remark. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I withdraw it, with mental reservations. The group with which I am associated is far from being confused with regard to the item now before the committee. Representations have been made to us by the workers engaged in this industry. They claim that no benefits have accrued to them by reason of the protection that has been granted to the industry. On the other hand, they say that the employers, having made representations to Labour members of Parliament, have obtained tariff protection, but have availed themselves of every opportunity of attacking the conditions of the worker* in the industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">The members of my group will fight against every item in this division, unless the Government is prepared to allow the matter to stand over until such time as some consideration is given to the workers&#39; representations. Seeing that certain honorable members opposite frequently vote with the Government for increased duties, one realizes that their protestations about the burden of taxation that is being heaped upon the workers are sp much hypocrisy. So far as my group is concerned, we stand for the interests of the workers, and we offer no apology to anybody for doing it. In that respect we  i  are unlike our friends opposite, who know that they represent interests that are diametrically opposed to those of the workers. They try to camouflage their position by trying to make it appear that they are very considerate to the workers, and are anxious to maintain their industrial conditions. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2121</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
              <electorate>Warringah</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  I think that a slight misunderstanding has occurred with regard to this matter. I hope that the Minister will not accept the proposal advanced for the postponement of this item. A letter which recently appeared in the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline> sets out the case from the employers&#39; point of view, and, to my mind, the statement contained in it is fair and reasonable. The letter is from the New South Wales Textile Manufacturers Association, and reads as follows : - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>I desire to point out the reasons for the application made to the Federal Arbitration Court by the members of the New South Wales Textile Manufacturers Association for an award. At the present time Western Australia, South Australia, Victoria and Tasmania are working under a federal award, giving 48 hours per week. Victoria is the chief textile manufacturing State. New South Wales is working under a State award, and works 44 hours per week, with very much higher wages than the other States. The disparity owing to wages and hours gives a disadvantage to this State of upwards of 40 per cent, oh wages basis. Should this disparity be maintained, it must soon lead to the closing of the mills in New South Wales. </para>
            <para>The members of my association believe that there should be equality of opportunity, and what they desire is that all States should work under reasonably even conditions, whatever the conditions mav be - this State should not be penalized. Therefore, application has been made to be brought under a federal award. </para>
            <para class="block">The present tariff has opened channels of employment in this industry which have materially helped to lessen the&#39; element of unemployment and distress. </para>
            <para>Should the action of the Beasley group be successful, it would undoubtedly tend to lessen employment in the textile industry. </para>
            <para>Whatever may ultimately be the award is not the chief concern, but the absolute necessity is that conditions and wages must be reasonably level. </para>
          </quote>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Why not bring the wages paid in other States up to the New South Wales level? That does not agree with the honorable member&#39;s policy. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have no policy on this matter at the moment. I am discussing, on its merits, the proposal to equalize the conditions in this industry in all the States, and to ensure that workers in New South Wales shall not be put out of employment because their fellow trade unionists in Victoria are working 48 hours, as against 44 hours in New South Wales, and are receiving a lower .wage for 48 hours work than their fellow trade unionists in New South Wales are getting for a working week of 44 hours. The employers are making a reasonable proposition to protect a section of workers against exploitation by other sections of workers in the same industry in other States. An application has been made for a Federal award, and, if it were granted, and the industrial conditions were made uniform throughout the States, there would be no special application by workers in one State against those of another. Therefore, I suggest that it would be reasonable for the honorable member for Martin to withdraw his request for the postponement of this item. No injury to the workers in his State is sought. The letter from which I have quoted is signed by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Robert</inline> Vicars. Let me read again the concluding sentence - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>Whatever may ultimately be the award is not the chief concern, but the absolute necessity is that conditions and wages must be reasonably level. </para>
          </quote>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The present application is for a reduction of wages. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The manufacturers want increased duties, lower wages, and debased conditions. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. ARCHDALE</inline>PARKHILL.That is not so. The conditions in the industry are a matter for the </para>
          <para class="block">Arbitration Court, and cannot be dealt with under the tariff. I protest against manufacturers demanding a high duty, simply because they pay more than award rates to their employees. This creates an aristocracy of workers in their particular industry, who are given high wages, while the manufacturers make big profits, and the whole is at the expense of the great body of the workers. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Keane</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Name one such industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I could name half-a-dozen. Take the match industry, and the tobacco industry. If the honorable member for Bendigo <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Keane)</inline> could get his way, the sewing machine industry would be another. In a full-page advertisement published in Tuesday&#39;s <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald,</inline> remarks by the honorable member for Adelaide <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Yates)</inline> regarding the superior conditions prevailing in a certain factory were repeated. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2122</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member for Adelaide made a very good speech on that matter. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. ARCHDALE</inline>PARKHILL.t am not concerned with the Minister&#39;s views in that respect. I am pointing out that the determination of wages is a matter for the Arbitration Court. The manufacturers seem to think that because they are able to provide a limited number of workers with particularly good conditions, they are entitled to ask Parliament for a prohibitive duty. We should not establish the principle that because, in one industry, the workers and their employers join in an application for a duty, they are, therefore, entitled to a prohibitive impost. I suggest that the grounds on which this postponement is sought are unreasonable and unsound. If the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> were present I should urge him, on the merits of the case, to withdraw his proposal and allow the items to be discussed. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2122</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate>Bendigo</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- When discussing these items during the general debate on the tariff I referred to the very point that has been raised by the honorable members for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> and Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge).</inline> If it is sound policy for this Government to give high, protection to an industry, it is equally sound that the rights of the workers in that industry should be preserved so far as is possible. I apply that generally. Recently I asked to be supplied with a list of employers who had applied for wage reductions after receiving high tariff protection from this Government. Subsequently I interviewed officers in charge of the department concerned, and realized that a complete answer to my question would involve the Government in considerable cost. I, therefore. re-drafted it, and expect an answer during the coming week. I have asked to be supplied with a list of the industries in which wage-cuts have occurred following the granting of high protective duties to those concerns. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>I believe that it is necessary to ratify the items in this division, as the success of the industries concerned depends upon the maintenance of these duties. I think that the objection of the honorable member for East Sydney, and the honorable  member  for Martin, can be overcome by the Government giving an assurance that a conference will be convened of the employers and employees in these industries, together with the officers of the Customs Department, so that the equity of the case may be considered. I do not yield to any honorable member in my belief that certain recent actions of the Arbitration Court were, to say the least, hellish. The court refused to give union officials an opportunity to ventilate their side of the matter. That rankles in the mind of every unionist in Australia. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2123</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Can the honorable member instance any case in which the court refused the workers an opportunity to state their case? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2123</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr KEANE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- If the honorable member will refer to the applications made by employers for a cut in the basic wage he will see that in their response the union advocates relied on the old line of argument, which centred about the cost of living, and advanced eighteen reasons why existing wages should be maintained. The Arbitration Court circumscribed the scope of the inquiry, and introduced two hitherto unknown bases of argument, that of national economy and the position of the nation. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2123</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member has not sustained his claim that the workers were not granted an opportunity of stating their case. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2123</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr KEANE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The case of the employees was submitted by learned counsel along lines that had hitherto been observed. Despite that, the Arbitration Court judges claimed that they were right in circumscribing the scope of the inquiry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>I hold that it is unfair to grant a high protective tariff to an industry, and at the same time allow those in it to cut wages in pursuance of what must be considered to be the most ill-balanced judgment that has ever been given by an Arbitration Court in Australia. It was claimed that the employers had lost money during 1929 and 1930. I do not contest that, but it might just as reasonably have been pointed out that they made exorbitant profits from 1918 until 1929- 30. I urge the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward),</inline> and the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> not to persevere in their desire for a postponement of the debate on this item, but to seek from the Minister for Trade and Customs <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Forde)</inline> an undertaking that a conference between employers, employees, and departmental officers will be convened at an early date, with a view to arriving at some adjustment of the existing inequitable position. If it could be proved that prices have been reduced as a result of the cut in wages, my objection would be, to some extent, overcome. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2123</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFE</name.id>
              <electorate>Swan</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The suggestion that the discussion on this item should be adjourned in order to enable a conference to take place between employers and employees in a certain industry, so that they shall decide how far they will further exploit the public, indicates to what depths the Government is descending in connexion with tariff matters. I was surprised to see, in last Saturday&#39;s Melbourne <inline font-style="italic">Argus,</inline> a full-page advertisement on behalf of Messrs. Bryant &#38; May. In view of the embargo on match importations, it is difficult to appreciate why that expenditure was incurred at the moment when all of our basic industries, iron, steel, zinc, lead, gold, copper and wheat, are in extreme distress. And now we have honorable members moving for a postponement of this item in order that unionists and employers might meet to fixwages in the industry, with the intention that the tariff shall be adjusted later to make the payment of those wages possible. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is not true. I and my colleagues contend that there should be no reduction of the wages of workers in this industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Surely that is outside the tariff debate. It should be the desire of Parliament to ensure that a reasonable degree of protection is given, and that the burden should be spread equally amongst the people of Australia. Sacrifices must be made by all sections. I want to see this item dealt with, not postponed simply because influence is brought to bear on members of Parliament to grant favours to one section or another. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member knows that lobbyists have been at work for weeks in this building. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The lobbyists do not come to me, although the honorable member may know a good deal about them. * </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>L1T</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">YATES, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Yates</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Does the honorable member know anything about glass? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I shall deal with that subject when the item is reached. Probably it will be, like the item of which we have just disposed, very fishy. Great quantities of cotton goods are used by our people, and we should not postpone the debate on this item. In a question which I asked the Minister for Trade and Customs to-day, I made if! clear that iron and steel prices in Germany are now below those which prevailed in 1913. It is hopelessly wrong that we should keep prices high in Australia, and so nullify the efforts of our wealthproducing industries. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>It is the worker who mainly uses cotton goods. The following list is interesting, as it gives a comparison of the prices which existed before the war and those which obtained as at 1st April, 1930 :  - </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_27_0.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para class="block">All of those items are used by the wageearners of Australia. In some cases theincrease in price amounts to 300 per cent. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- There has been a considerable reduction in prices since the datewhen those prices ruled. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I question it. The honorable gentleman talks a great deal about reductions, but the public have not seen them. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I shall tell the honorable member again about them. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Can the honorable gentleman indicate where the prices of iron and steel commodities have fallen? He reminds me of <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Hume-Cook,</inline> who is always writing letters to the Victorian press, and who makes his comparison between existing prices and those which obtained in 1920. Any fool knows that immediately after the war prices reached their peak, but that they have since declined very considerably. To continue with my list, women&#39;s lisle hose cost- </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYX</name.id>
                <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I rise to a point of order. The committee will make very little headway if honorable members are allowed to roam all over the place in their utterances. I suggest that the remarks of the honorable member for Swan <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gregory)</inline> would be more in order if applied to item 115, when it is reached. At present the committee is dealing with cotton piece goods. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- If the honorable member had the intelligence to understand what he reads, he would realize that the articles to which I am referring are cotton piece goods. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).Order!</inline> I remind the honorable member for Cook <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. C. Riley)</inline> that the committee is dealing with cotton piece goods. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYX</name.id>
                <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I rise to a point of order. I submit that the item before the Chair is not cotton hose, but cotton piece goods. The honorable member&#39;s remarks are, therefore, appropriate to item 115, but not to this item. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CHAIRMAN, The</name>
                <name role="display">The CHAIRMAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member for Swan <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gregory)</inline> is dealing with cotton piece goods, but has incidentally mentioned cotton hose. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2124</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The item to which I am referring reads - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <list type="loweralpha">
            <item label="(c)">
              <para>Cotton piece goods ordinarily used for manufacture into outer clothing for human wear which in pattern design or appearance resemble woollen piece goods used for the same purpose and which weigh more than 6 oz. per square yard. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
          <para class="block">The duties provided are - per square yard, 1s. 3d. British preferential, 2s. intermediate, and 2s. 6d. general; and ad valorem, 35 per cent. British preferential, 45 per cent, intermediate, and 50 per cent, general. When the 1920 tariff schedule was introduced, we were told that, if a substantial duty were imposed on these items, this industry would become firmly established; but I do not think that it was imagined at that time that the duties would be increased to the present enormous figures. The imposition of such duties on goods of this class is neither more nor less than an imposition upon the poorer classes of the community. These increases force one to the conclusion that honorable members of Parliament are strongly influenced by those who demand high duties. I do not suggest that they are improperly influenced. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2125</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KEV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FENTON, James</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Fenton</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What about those who are influenced by the importers? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2125</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Surely the common sense of the honorable member for Maribyrnong <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Fenton)</inline> must force him to the conclusion that our high tariff policy of the last eleven years has had a disastrous effect upon Australia. I shall develop this aspect of the subject further when, we are dealing with the duties on iron and steel and agricultural implements. At present I am making the point that these duties have severely hit the working people. I have never objected to the imposition of high duties on luxuries. I did not object, the other day, to the increased duty on cigars. But I do object to these extraordinary increases in the duties on the wearing apparel of the people. Let me quote the following prices from the list to which I have already referred: - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>Cotton trousers - Pre-war,6s.6d. a pair; present, 9s.11d. a pair. </para>
            <para>Oxford shirts - Pre-war, 18s. 6d. per dozen; present, 40s. per dozen. </para>
            <para>S.S.S. shirts - pre-war, 34s.6d. per dozen; present, 84s. per dozen. </para>
            <para>A.l. calico (36-in.) - Pre-war, 4d. per yard, less 7&#189; per cent.; present, Sid. per yard. </para>
            <para>Cotton quilts - Pre-war, 17s.6d. (20 per cent. duty): present, 20s.8d. (30 per cent. duty).&#39; </para>
            <para>Galatea - Pre-war, 10&#189;d. per yard; present, 22d. per yard. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">I could enumerate a number of other items to show how prices have soared to-day. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2125</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  When the honorable member speaks of to-day&#39;s prices, what does he mean? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2125</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I had these figures prepared last year, but no substantial reductions have occurred since then. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2125</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Oh, yes. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2125</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GREGORY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Whenever I ask for details of such reductions, the Minister proceeds to discuss some other aspect of the subject. I shall be very glad if he will give me specific instances of substantial reductions in prices, and also any figures to justify his statement that an increase in employment has occurred in consequence of the imposition of these duties. There has been an increase of nearly 300 per cent, in the price of cotton goods since pre-war days. I hope the Minister will not agree to the suggestion that consideration of this item should be postponed until an arrangement has been made between the employers and employees in the industry to exploit the poorer people of the community still further. When the amendment now before the Chair has been dealt with, I intend to move that the duties in respect of this item shall be reduced to1s. British preferential;1s. 6d. intermediate, and 2s. general, and that the ad valorem rate shall be reduced by 5 per cent, in each case. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2125</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXT</name.id>
              <electorate>Gippsland</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PATERSON, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr PATERSON</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I should like to know on what ground the Government has departed from the recommendation of the Tariff Board in regard to this item. The board submitted a report to the Government on the 30th June last, in which it recommended that no alteration should be made in the duty which had been operating since 1928. That recommendation was made after a lengthy inquiry. The increases made were from1s. to1s. 3d. British preferential,1s. to1s. 6d. intermediate, and 2s. to 2s. 6d. general, and ad valorem, 5 per cent, in each class of duty. I point out that the increases are greater than they seem to be, for this is not an alternative duty. It is not a case of imposing the fixed duty or the ad valorem rate whichever is the greater, but of imposing the fixed duty plus the ad valorem rate. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2126</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Is it a double imposition? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2126</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PATERSON, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr PATERSON</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is. In Item 105 </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Alc the ad valorem duty has been increased substantially from 35 per cent, to 45 per cent. British preferential; 45 per cent, to 55 per cent, intermediate; and 50 per cent, to 60 per cent, general. Seeing that the goods affected by these increases are purchased principally by the poorer classes of the community, I should like the Minister to furnish us with some reason for making this substantial increase against the recommendation of the Tariff Board. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2126</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KYX</name.id>
              <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
              <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
              <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I cannot support the proposal of the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> that consideration of this item should be postponed until the relations between the employers and employees in the textile industry are somewhat more settled than at present. The honorable gentleman read portions of a letter sent to him by the general  president  of the Textile Workers Union, including a statement by that gentleman that no good purpose could be served by supporting the manufacturers in their application for an increase of duties. If that is the view of the honorable member for Martin and his colleagues in this chamber, and of the  president  of the union, I assure the Committee that it is not the view of the rank and file of workers engaged in the industry. I dispute the statement that the workers in this industry do not approve of these additional duties. The largest cotton mill in the Commonwealth is in my electorate, and I have been in close touch with the trained operatives in that establishment. I know from firsthand knowledge that these workers are in entire agreement with the policy of the Government in this connexion. Consequently I shall not allow the remarks of the honorable member for Martin to influence my vote on the item. A postponement of the consideration of the item would be entirely against the interests of the workers engaged in the industry. I shall resist any effort by the honorable member for Martin and his colleagues, or honorable members opposite, to reduce the duties. A reduction of the duties would re-act seriously not only upon the users of these <inline font-style="italic">goods</inline> in Australia, but also upon the workers engaged in the industry, for it would, in effect, open our doors wide to the importers of cheap goods made in foreign countries by coloured labour. I can understand certain honorable members opposite, who have little consideration for the welfare of the workers, suggesting a reduction in this item, which is designed to protect the Australian industry and to provide employment for our trained operatives. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2126</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  On low wages. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2126</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYX</name.id>
                <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am not an advocate of low wages. I have at all times urged that this Parliament should do its utmost, legislatively, to ensure uniformity in industrial conditions throughout the Commonwealth. Unfortunately, many who have been associated with industrial organizations have not given the Labour party all the help which it had every right to expect in this direction. If industrial conditions in the other States were brought more into line with the conditions obtaining in New South Wales, we should not be confronted with our present difficulties, and we should not have applications from manufacturers for an alteration in working conditions. Manufacturers who enjoy protection under the tariff should not be allowed to break down the working conditions of their employees. This Parliament should protect the industry now under discussion, and I should be unfaithful to my trust, and would not be doing what is expected of me by my supporters, if I agreed to a postponement of a decision with regard to this particular item. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2126</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  Even if the organized workers asked for it? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2126</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYX</name.id>
                <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- They have not asked for it. At all events, I have received no protest from them, and I have not heard of any complaints from those who are engaged in the industry. Our plain duty is to ensure its adequate protection, so that it may be further developed, and  the  volume of employment extended. Variation in awards is not a matter for this Parliament to determine; it has not the necessary authority to legislate for uniformity in industrial conditions. As an ex-trade union secretary, I am always prepared to fight the employers on behalf of employees, if I feel that their claim is a just one. The workers in this industry should have nothing to fear so long as they enjoy a fair share of the increased employment which should result from this further protection. If they have differences with their employers they can fight out their disputes in the Arbitration Court or, if they prefer it, on the job. I have never yet &#34; squibbed &#34; an issue, and I have entire confidence in the ability of the operatives engaged in the industry to protect their working conditions against unscrupulous employers. We should be failing in our duty as representatives of the people, and as Australians, if we did not give this particular industry its full measure of protection. The previous Government spent huge sums of money in attracting to our shores large numbers of immigrants, among whom were thousands of trained operatives from Lancashire and other centres of the textile industry in Great Britain. Until a few months ago these men and women were walking the streets of our principal cities looking in vain for employment. I have met scores of them knocking at the doors of our industrial establishments. Owing to the low customs barrier prior to the advent of this Government, Australian manufacturers were unable to compete with overseas importations. They are now producing an excellent article. Some months ago I represented to the Minister for Trade and Customs that the weight of cotton piece goods covered by this item should be reduced from 6  oz.  to 5 oz. per square yard in order to give the Australian manufacturers a further measure of protection, and at the same time safeguard the interests of the consumer. I made this suggestion because overseas manufacturers had been giving their attention to the production of a cotton tweed weighing less than 6 oz. I have in my hands a sample of the lighter weight imported cotton tweed, which weighs slightly less than 6 oz. a square yard and therefore evades the duty. If honorable members care to examine it they will see that it is in every respect inferior to, and will not stand anything like as much wear and tear as the Australianmade article. I urge the Minister, if he has not already come to a decision, to consider seriously the proposal which I made to him to alter the item by reducing the weight of the cloth from 6 oz. to 5 oz. If this item is so amended, the additional protection given to the industry will do much to ensure its stability and extension. It will mean the establishment of cotton spinning mills in Australia, and substantially increase the demand for Australian-grown cotton. The representatives in this chamber from the State of Queensland will, I feel sure, support this request. Since we have done our utmost to encourage cotton-growing in Australia, it is only natural, and logical, that we should now give all the assistance possible to the manufacturing side of the industry. It has been contended By those who are opposed to these duties, that this increased protection will not benefit employers in the textile industry. I give that assertion an emphatic denial. To my personal knowledge scores of operatives have lately secured remunerative employment in a number of mills in my electorate, and there has been no reduction in wages since the imposition of these duties. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2127</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  But that is now contemplated. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2127</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYX</name.id>
                <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I cannot say that it is, but since the Labour party stands for arbitration any decision with regard to working conditions, hours of work, and rates of wages should be left to the Arbitration Court, or failing a decision in that way, should be fought out on the job. I sincerely trust that, before this item is passed, honorable members will examine this sample of cotton piece goods which I have in my possession, and compare it with samples of Australian-made goods. If they do, I feel sure that they will support the request which I have made for a reduction in the weight from 6 oz. to 5 oz. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2127</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>JWT</name.id>
              <electorate>Moreton</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I support the proposal made by the honorable member for Cook <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. C. Riley)</inline> for a reduction in the weight of cotton piece goods from 6 oz. to 5 oz. per square yard. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2127</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  What would be the effect of such an alteration. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2127</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The effect would be partially to exclude tweed of the quality in the sample shown by the honorable member for South Sydney from competition with Australian-made  tweed in this particular section of the tariff. The cotton piece goods sample in question is manufactured by Asiatics for the special purpose of defeating the Government proposals for protecting the Australian industry. Garments made from it will not give the Australian worker fair wear. It is our duty to give reasonable protection to Australian manufacturers against importations from cheap-labour countries and Australian workers from inferior materials. I am informed on good authority, that the Bradford Cotton Mills, Sydney, and Bentleys Limited, Melbourne, two of the largest establishments of their kind in Australia, are prepared to manufacture from Australian yarn cotton piece goods weighing 5 oz. per square yard. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister has just said that they are not using Australian cotton. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- They intend to do so in future. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister has been assured that the firms mentioned have given a definite assurance that they will use Australian cotton for the production of high-class cotton piece goods should the proposed alteration in this item be approved. It may not be out of place if I remind honorable members of the development that has taken place in the Australian cotton industry since the manufacturing side of the industry was encouraged. In 1920-21 the area under crop was 166 acres, and the yield 493,650 lb. ; last year the area under crop was 26,122 acres, and the yield 12,290,190 lb. of unginned cotton. The cotton bounty, as honorable members are aware, will not be continued beyond 1936. About 3,000 workers are employed in the iudustry, and at the peak period of last season the wages paid amounted to approximately &#163;1,500 a week. Cottongrowing also provides additional employment in other occupations, notably the transport industry. Honorable members should have no hesitation in choosing between an article of good quality manufactured in Australia from raw material produced in this country and one produced in cheap-labour Asiatic countries. I see no reason why they should not give immediate and favorable consideration to the proposal before the committee. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="italic">
            <inline font-style="italic">Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 8 p.m.</inline>
          </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The amendment of the honorable member for Cook <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. C. Riley)</inline> is . necessary for the protection both of the Australian industry and of the Australian worker. Imported cotton piece goods, containing cotton and wool, are of inferior quality and give unsatisfactory wear. It is unjust to the workers of this country to import an inferior article, the product of Asiatic countries. If the amendment is carried, the Australian industry will be given a splendid opportunity to develop. The cotton tweed industry has developed considerably since the introduction of the Pratten tariff. This item affords further scope for the utilization of Australian wool and cotton. The Bradford cotton mills, and Bentley&#39;s Limited, have given a special undertaking that, if the item is altered as suggested, they will use Australiangrown cotton and wool in larger quantities, and produce a first class article weighing 5 oz. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Mr.Ward. - Do those firms undertake not to reduce the wages of their workers? </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The object of the tariff is to protect Australian industries. The workers in those industries are protected by the Arbitration Court. If the amendment is carried, the community generally will be able to obtain a first class article of Australian wool and cotton made by Australian workmen in Australian mills. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Under low wage conditions. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Under ideal conditions in respect of hours and wages, as awarded by the Arbitration Court. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Which the Nationalist party tried to wipe out. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2128</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FRANCIS</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The party to which I have the honour to belong introduced the legislation providing for the Arbitration Court. The party stands solidly for the settlement of industrial disputes and the fixing of hours, conditions and wages in industry by means of the Arbitration Court. The cottongrowing industry has developed materially since the introduction of the last tariff. In 1920-21 there were only 166 acres of cotton under crop, which produced 57,065 lb. of unginned cotton. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">The imports in that year were 493,650 lb. In 1928-29, there were 26,122 acres under crop, which produced 12,290,190 lb. of unginned cotton. The imports in that year were 1,040,473 lb. The production of cotton plus imports in 1920-21, was 550,715 lb., and in 1929-30, 13,331,383 lb. Since 1920 the number of cotton-growers has increased considerably. </para>
          <para>I come now to the secondary side of this industry, the development of which has been remarkable. Cotton piece goods are being made from Australian-grown cotton by the Austral Silk and Cotton Mills, cotton yarns by Davies Cooperative Company Proprietary Limited, of Melbourne, the Austral Silk and Cotton Mills Limited and Bonds Industries Limited, of Sydney; cotton towelling by Bonds Industries Limited, the Commonwealth Weaving Mills Limited, which company uses 5,000 lb. of Queensland cotton per week, or 650 bales per year, and the Wattle Weaving Mills Limited, Sydney. Cotton underwear is being made by Bonds Industries Limited) and Davies Cooperative Company Proprietary Limited. Terry towelling, huckaback towelling, honeycomb towels, sponge cloth and Dorset cloth are being manufactured by the Harris Weaving Mills, of Sydney. The cotton-grower of Queensland does not directly get the benefit of this tariff protection. Ho gets it indirectly, inasmuch as it enables the spinners to operate their plants, and to purchase our raw cotton. At the time the duty was imposed, spinning plants in Australia were; practically idle, hut now they are all working full time. Bonds Industries, of Sydney, has now been completely reconstructed, and is working three shifts per day. Of late that firm has been working on Saturdays and Sundays. Spinners are taking 300 per cent, more raw cotton from the Queensland growers than they were at the corresponding period of last year. That is surely a bright spot in the present dark background of trade in this country. The industry last year gave intermittent employment to approximately 3,000 cotton-pickers. It also gave direct employment in the oil mill and ginneries to a large number of people, the wages and salaries bill at the peak period of the year being approximately &#163;1,500 per week Indirectly, employment was given to different sections of the community, through the railway department and other transport activities. The sum of <inline font-style="italic">&#163;1</inline> 3,000 was paid to the Railways Department in freights. I hope that the committee will support, this further proposal to develop the Australian spinning and weaving industry, which absorbs our own raw materials - wool and cotton. All Australian requirements of cotton can be assured by the growers. We can supply the world&#39;s requirements in respect, of wool. In fact, Australia has more or less a monopoly of the finest merino wool. The amendment, if carried, will be a considerable factor in bringing about the renewal of prosperity of the primary producers, our workers, and Australians generally. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2129</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
              <electorate>Wide Bay</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I oppose the motion of the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge&#39; that this item be deferred. I do so in view of the importance of the cotton-growing industry to Australia, and out of consideration for those who are engaged in it. This industry opens up a great field for the absorption of our unemployed in the production of cotton, and everything should be done to hasten the passing of this item so that we may give adequate protection to the cotton -growing industry. For many years the Commonwealth and the Government of Queensland and the individual growers have expended considerable time and money in an endeavour to develop this industry. Prior to the Pratten tariff, the highest production of &#39; cotton - 922,000 lb.was in 1920-21, but when that tariff was imposed, the production increased in one year to 18,000,000 lb. Objection has been raised on both sides of the chamber to the protection that is now being afforded this industry. Surely there is no excuse for the opposition to this item. I remind honorable members that the Bruce-Page Government guaranteed in 1923-24, 5d. per lb.; in 1924-25, 5d. per lb.; and in 1925-26, 4&#163;d. per lb. on cotton. Half of the loss on the guarantee had to be met by the Commonwealth Government. The loss in Queensland alone amounted to &#163;359,790, and it was borne equally by the Commonwealth and the State. A full examination of the industry was made and reports were submitted by experts, by visitors from Great Britain, and by inspectors from India. It was claimed by those experts that it was possible to produce in Australia a highgrade cotton, and that opinion was subsequently borne out by the fact that on the cotton market of Great Britain, the Australian, article realized the highest price in its class. During the period from 1923 to 1927, the Commonwealth Government expended &#163;2,044 in research work in an endeavour to promote the cotton-growing industry. In 1925 the Commonwealth Government granted over a period of five years, a bounty of 1&#189;d. per lb. on high-grade cotton. In 1925-26 the appropriation for seed cotton amounted to &#163;120,000, and for cotton yarn to &#163;60,000. From 1926-27 to 1929-30, &#163;190,315 was expended on cotton seed, and &#163;127,831 on cotton yarns. That is an indication that during recent years the Commonwealth Government, as well as the Queensland Government, has devoted much attention to the development of the cotton-growing industry. There is no more opportune time than the present to render further assistance to this industry so that we may absorb a considerable number of our unemployed. During the last few years, the Queensland Government, in an effort to develop this industry, has made available to settlers a number of farms in my electorate covering an area of many thousand acres. These men are now firmly established, both in their homes and in the industry. They have successfully farmed areas on which previously the survey peg was the only sign of civilization.</inline></para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- On a point of order, I submit that the honorable member is not dealing with the question before the Chair. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2130</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KYI</name.id>
              <electorate>FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PROWSE, John</name>
              <name role="display">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Prowse</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- I am waiting for the honorable member to connect his remarks with the question before the Chair. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> would make it impossible for those who are engaged in the industry to be certain whether their industrial conditions were to continue along the lines which this legislature has declared they should follow. He hopes to bring about industrial warf are between employer and employee in the secondary section of the industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- On a point of order, I submit that the remarks of the honorable member, in which he has attributed to me an intention to bring about a certain result, incorrectly state the facts. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2130</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN, The</name>
              <name role="display">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- There is no point of order. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member has made a proposal which, if adopted, could only have the effect of affording time for the promotion of strife in the secondary section of the industry. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I submit that the honorable member is distinctly out of order. He is misrepresenting me, and. his remarks, being inaccurate, are offensive to me. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.There is no point of order. If the honorable member has been misrepresented he will have an opportunity later to explain his position. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- For the reasons that I have stated, I am opposing the honorable member&#39;s motion. I contend that the present is the time when we should&#39; deal with this matter. For months we have awaited an opportunity to discuss the tariff. Yet, notwithstanding the honorable member&#39;s disinterestedness towards the growers in this industry, as well . as towards the development of a new industry in Australia, he hopes to cause a delay that will enable strife to be promoted to the detriment of the primary producer. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Ward</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Does the honorable member consider that, by attacking the workers in the industry, the tendency towards peace is promoted. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The wages that can be paid by the primary producer are dependent upon many factors with which the honorable member has no concern. When he is able to gauge the extent to which the primary producer is dependent upon seasonal conditions, and when he realizes the many obstacles which have to be overcome- </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2130</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I again submit that the honorable member is distinctly out of order. The interests of the primary producer in the cotton industry are not involved in the question before the Chair. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.The honorable member must connect his remarks with the amendment. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- In the difficulties that I have mentioned the primary producer has quite enough with which to contend, without being left &#34;in the air &#34; in regard to the ratification or rejection by this Parliament of the particular conditions that have been promised to him. We object to the proposed postponement, because in it there is danger. I feel sure that the committee is prepared to agree tothis item, with a view to encour aging this industry. We do not want any lobbying by the honorable member and his friends which could in any way be harmful to the indus- try. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  On a question of privilege, I regard those remarks as distinctly offensive. The honorable member has charged me with lobbying, and with other offences in the commission of which he is a greater expert than I. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.The honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr.Corser) must withdraw the remarks which the honorable member for Martin considers offensive. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am quite prepared to withdraw any statement that I have made if it is regarded as offensive; but I cannot withdraw a statement that I have not made. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>JWT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FRANCIS, Josiah</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Francis</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I rise to a point of order. The honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> rose on a question of privilege; consequently he should have concluded with a substantive motion. He did not do so. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.I think that what the honorable member for Martin intended to say was that he rose to a point of order. Do I understand that the honorable member for Wide Bay charged the honorable member for Martin with lobbying ? </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- No, sir. My statement was that the delay which would result from the acceptance of the amendment would permit of lobbying. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  On my part. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K6Q</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CORSER, Bernard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr BERNARD CORSER</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I did not make any such observation. I could not imagine the honorable member&#39;s lobbying being such as to cause great detriment to the industry. If the honorable member will permit me, I wish to emphasize the danger that underlies the amendment. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Delay would detrimentally affect the future possibilities of this industry to Australia, and on that account I ask honorable members seriously to consider the advisableness of passing the item immediately. No argument has been advanced that would warrant its postponement. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2131</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade andCustoms</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The honorable member for Gippsland <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Paterson)</inline> inquiredwhy the duties on cotton piece goods had been increased. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PATERSON, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Paterson</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  No ; why the Government had disregarded therecommendation of the Tariff Board. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member has walked into a trap. As a matter of fact, the Tariff Board did not recommend against these increases of duty, nor did it report on the cotton piece goods that come under this item. Its report, dated the 30th June, 1930, from which the honorable member quoted, was upon a request for increased duties on the cotton piece goods that are included in the first item, with which we have dealt. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PATERSON, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Paterson</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  And it concluded by recommending that there be no increase of duty on cotton piece goods. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2131</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That recommendation referred to the cotton piece goods which are included in the first item, which has already been passed. We have not placed on such goods any protective duty, but merely a small revenue duty. Therefore, the recommendation of the Tariff Board has not been disregarded. That board has not carried out an investigation into thecotton piece goods embracing cotton tweeds included in this item since 1925. It then made the very definite recommendation, which was embodied in the tariff by the Government of the day, that the duty should be 1s. and 30 per cent. ad valorem British preferential,1s. 6d. and 40 per cent. ad valorem intermediate, and 2s. and 45 per cent. ad valorem general tariff. The addition of 5 per cent. to each of the ad valorem rates, after a lapse of six years, is only reasonable. Upon investigation, the Government found that that increase was necessary for the protection of the Australian industry. The additional protection has already had a beneficial effect. Honorable members will doubtless be told that the result has been  to increase the price of cotton piece goods; but that is not the case. Even in the last three months, reductions have been made in prices, on one line from 3s. to 2s. 8d. a yard, on another from 4s. 9d. to 4s. 3d., and on a third from 4s. to 3s. 6&#189;d. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- -What lines are they? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>Mr.FORDE. - I have samples before me, and they can be inspected by the honorable member. On another line the reduction has been from 2s. 9d. to 2s. 5d. a yard. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Where is there evidence of those reductions? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I would not quote these figures if they were not correct. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Archdale Parkhill</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The question before the Chair is the postponement of the item. I ask whether the Minister is in order in discussing the prices of cotton piece goods? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN, The</name>
                <name role="display">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister is in order. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have received from <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. D.</inline> E. Lark, general secretary of the Australian Textile Workers Union, a letter dated the 15th May, 1931, from which I make the following extract: - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>The Federal Management Committee of the above union recently met and considered the action of the Federal Arbitration Court in reducing the wages prescribed in our awards by 10 per cent., and, as a result of . the discussions, I was instructed to write you urging that the Federal Government, in granting protection to the industry, should make provision in all cases where protection is granted that the wage rate shall not be below the equivalent of the Harvester judgment. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">
            <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lark</inline>has not said that he is in favour of withdrawing the duties, nor has he asked that that be done. I submitted the matter to the Attorney-General <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Brennan)</inline> for an opinion, and I received to-day the following opinion signed by the Solicitor-General, <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Robert</inline> Garran, from which it will be seen that I have not the power to act as requested: - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>The Minister for Trade and Customs has requested advice on the following proposition which has been put to him by the general secretary of the Australian &#34; Textile Workers Union :  - &#34; The Federal Management Committee of the above union recently met and considered the action of the Federal Arbitration Court in reducing wages prescribed in our awards by 10 per cent., and, as a result of the discussions, I was instructed to write you urging that the Federal Government, in granting protection to the industry, should make provision in all cases where protection is granted that the wage rate shall not be below the equivalent of the Harvester judgment.&#34; </para>
            <para>What the union desires is that the tariff protection accorded to textile manufacturers shall be subject to variation in such a way as to ensure that the protection of the tariff shall be accorded only to those who pay in the industry rates of wages not less than those specified in the Harvester judgment. </para>
            <para>Similar action was attempted in the Excise Tariff 1906 (Agricultural Machinery). That act imposed certain duties of excise on agricultural machinery, but contained a proviso that the duty should not apply in cases where it was established that the conditions of employment obtaining in the production of the goods were fair and reasonable. </para>
            <para>The High Court declared the act was invalid (Barger&#39;s case 0 C.L.R. 41), on the ground, <inline font-style="italic">inter alia,</inline> that the act dealt with matters other than duties of excise, and accordingly contravened section 55 of the Constitution. </para>
            <para>It appears that any customs tariff act imposing duties of customs subject to the conditions mentioned by the union would be liable to be dealt with by the court in a similar manner. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The Melbourne Trades Hall Council also took up this matter, and the following is an extract from the reply sent to the secretary, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Duggan-</inline></para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Crouch</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Read <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Duggan&#39;s</inline> letter. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It was in terms similar to those of the letter sent by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lark,</inline> of the Textile Workers Union, in whose behalf the council was acting. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Let us hear the letter. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2132</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I have not got it with me. The reply to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Duggan,</inline><inline font-style="italic">inter alia,</inline> fully explained the position: - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>In reply, I desire to state that the representations were submitted to the AttorneyGeneral, who advises that an attempt at the new protection was made in the Excise Tariff 1906. That act imposed an excise duty on certain agricultural machinery with a proviso . that the act should not apply to goods manufactured under conditions as to the remuneration of labour which - </para>
            <list type="loweralpha">
              <item label="(a)">
                <para>are declared by resolution of both Houses of the Parliament to be fair and reasonable; or </para>
              </item>
              <item label="(b)">
                <para>are in accordance with a Commonwealth industrial award; or </para>
              </item>
              <item label="(c)">
                <para>arc in accordance with a Commonwealth industrial agreement; or </para>
              </item>
              <item label="(d)">
                <para>are, on an application made to the Commonwealth Arbitration Court, declared to be fair and reasonable. </para>
              </item>
            </list>
            <para class="block">Another act, the Excise Procedure Act 1907, provided for the procedure in applications so made. The validity of the Excise Act 1906 was challenged in the High Court in the ease of R. v.Bar <inline font-style="italic">ger</inline> (6 C.L.R. 41). For the Crown it was contended that the act was a valid exercise of the Commonwealth legislative power to make laws with respect to taxation. </para>
            <para>On behalf of the employer it was contended that the act was in substance not a taxation act, but a direct interference with the regulation of the manufacturing business which was within the exclusive legislative power of the States. The court by a majority . . . held that the act was invalid mainly on the ground that it was not an act imposing taxation, but was an attempt at the direct regulation of the domestic affairs of the States. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">Last night the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> read a letter from <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Downing, president</inline> of the New South Wales Textile Workers Union, in the course of which the writer- said - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>The protection given to the industry has not benefited the worker engaged in it. </para>
          </quote>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYX</name.id>
                <electorate>COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP; FLP from 1931</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward Charles</name>
                <name role="display">Mr C RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It has provided him with work. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Everybody will admit that, and there is greater activity in the industry now than for a long time previously. The&#39; letter continued - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>Therefore, if the manufacturers, who were protected because they claimed they could only maintain the wages, and conditions of the workers by the shutting out of imported goods, now seek to lower the wages and conditions after being guarded by the Labour Government against outside competition, then it is the view of the Trades and Labour Council of New South Wales and of my union that no good purpose could be served by supporting the employers in their tariff application. </para>
            <para>It has accordingly been determined that every effort shall be made by the trade union movement, in conjunction with its political representatives, to induce the Federal Government to withdraw the protection already given and contemplated in the schedules now before the House. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">Much as I regret that some manufacturers who were given tariff protection because they had to pay high wages and observe certain conditions of employment, applied subsequently to the Arbitration Court for a variation of wages and working conditions, I am convinced that the removal of the protection from their industries would throw out of employment a large number of people. Approximately 12,000 persons are employed in the textile industry, excluding .the knitting factories. I recently visited a number of the factories and found them working at full pressure. That can be confirmed by any honorable member who has a textile factory in his electorate. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I rise to a point of order. My motion does not propose the removal of the duty. It merely states that for reasons clearly specified the deferment of the &#39;duty would be advantageous to employers and employees alike. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN, The</name>
                <name role="display">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is not a point of order. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I cannot grant the request by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Downing</inline> and the Sydney Trades and Labour Council that the duties on textiles should be lifted. Such a course would throw out of employment a large number of workers. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KIB</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LONG, William</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Long</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Is the Minister aware that some manufacturers in the textile industry are paying higher than award rates? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2133</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I know of such instances, but it is not my function to defend -the manufacturers. I have to consider impartially whether it is advisable to defer these duties, and whether the Commonwealth has any power to regulate wages through the tariff schedule. As Minister for Trade and Customs, I have no power to do that; therefore the deferment of these duties and the convening of a conference of representatives of the spinners, knitters, and unions would be futile. If the Commonwealth Parliament had greater constitutional powers in relation to trade and commerce it would be possible to put into operation the new protection policy of the Federal Parliamentary Labour Party. Until this Parliament is granted that power, it would be useless for me to convene a conference of representatives of employers and workers in the textile industry, because the only pressure I could exert to prevent a reduction of wages would be a threat to remove the protective duties. Punitive action of that kind would unjustly penalize the good employers who are paying award rates, and throw out of employment thousands of men and women. Moreover, if I agreed to convene a conference of representatives of the textile industry immediately, the iron and steel industry, the timber industry and many others in turn would demand similar treatment, and all my time would be occupied with conferences which would certainly prove abortive, because of the constitutional limitation of the powers of this Parliament and my intrusion would be hotly  resented. I spoke on the telephone this morning to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Lark,</inline> general secretary of the Textile Workers Union in Melbourne, and the  president  of the union in Sydney. The latter subsequently stated to my secretary that further consultations with the Trades and Labour Council in Sydney had confirmed their proposal that the duties on textiles should be lifted as a penalty on the employers for seeking the assistance of the Arbitration Court to alter working conditions and wages in the industry. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Downing,</inline> therefore, urged that full consideration should be given to the suggestions made by the general secretary of the Textile Workers Union, that the discussion of this item be postponed, that a conference representing . all sections of the industry throughout Australia be held, and that the Government be guided by the result of such conference. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>I repeat that at such a conference the representative of the Commonwealth Government would have no power of compulsion. If the employers and employees failed to arrive at an amicable agreement all that the Government could do would be to withdraw or reduce the existing duties; and if. it did that it would have to accept full responsibility for throwing out of employment from 50 per cent, to 75 per cent of the workers in the textile industry, because as soon as the duties were lifted the country would be flooded with imports. I do not approve of manufacturers obtaining tariff protection, on the ground that they are handicapped by Australian, wages and working conditions, and immediately applying to the Arbitration Court for a downward variation of those wages and conditions ; but I have to face stern facts. One must not cut off his nose to spite his face, and the penalizing of the employers by lifting the duties would be poor consolation to the thousands of workers who would be thus thrown out of employment. I promise, however, that the Government will keep its eyes on this industry, and determine within its powers what action can be taken to protect the wages and working condition&#39;s of the employees. As a believer in good wages and conditions of employment, and a reasonable price to the consumers, I regret that the Government has not the power to put into operation the new protection policy. </para>
          <para>It is wise to put before the committee both sides of the case. I have stated the views of the representatives of the unions. Inow quote the f ollowing telegram, which I received to-day from the Textile Association, Sydney :  - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>Regarding statements made in Parliament, following are the facts: - Employers in this State are applying to Federal Arbitration Court to be -placed on same footing as Victorian textile industry. Employers in this State are at 40 per cent, disadvantage on wages, hours, taxes, &#38;c, compared with Victoria; therefore, if consumption continues limited only question of time when the industry will have to close down in this State, and all employees be thrown out of employment. Whatever may ultimately be the award is not the chief concern, but the absolute necessity is that conditions and wages must&#39; be reasonably levelled as between the various States. My association thinks that every facility should be afforded by federal legislature for industries to be brought under a federal award, and there should be a uniform federal basic wage throughout Australia instead of differential rates in various States. Present tariff protection is required to prevent dumping of out-of-season and other goods, and by ensuring the market to Australian industry, making volume production possible, thus providing cheaper goods to the public. This tariff has already been instrumental in this direction. Piece goods generally are 20 per cent, to 30 per cent, lower than in 1929. Excellent worsteds and tweeds are being sold at from 5s. per yard, costing less than &#163;.1 for a suit length&#34; </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">I regret that it is not possible to put into operation at the present time our new protection policy, and for that reason I cannot agree to the postponement of the item. As a party we stand for arbitration, and even under the new protection policy the Arbitration Court and not Parliament or the Minister, would  fix  rates of wages. We have been told ofcourse that all these duties have meant increases to the consumers; such a statement is absolutely false. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2134</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFE</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gregory</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I ask that that statement be withdrawn. I said that prices had been increased, and I resent my statement being described as absolutely false. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>Mr.FORDE. - Having no desire to misrepresent any honorable member, I say that these statements are incorrect. In any case, I did not refer particularly to the honorable member&#39;s remarks. I -was speaking generally of statements made by advocates of freetrade, either in this House or at meetings of the town and country union, and such like bodies. </para>
          <para class="block">These advocates are in the habit of letting -slip -off their tongues many false statements about an increase in prices since the protection policy has been put into operation. The price of worsted suitings has dropped from 13s. 6d. a yard in 1929 to 10s. 6d. a yard in 1931. In the same period other lines have dropped from 8s. 6d. a yard to 6s.11d. a yard ; from 10s. 4d. a yard to 7s. 4d. a yard and from 9s. 6d. a yard to 6s.11d. a yard. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2135</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-Will  the Minister cite his authority for those figures? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2135</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member can get corroboration of them from John Vicars and Company Limited, Sydney. Then we have also the authority of the Sydney Woollen Mills Limited that the following reductions have been brought about since 1929 - from 4s. 6d. a yard to 3s. 8d. a yard ; from 5s. 3d. a yard to 3s. 6d. a yard and from 4s. a yard to 3s. l&#189;d. a yard. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2135</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  I rise to &#38; point Or order. The Minister is citing the price of woollen goods whereas the item under discussion is cotton piece goods. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2135</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYI</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN, The</name>
                <name role="display">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Prowse</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-- I ask the Minister to confine his remarks to the item. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2135</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I listened to-night to a very well-reasoned speech delivered by the honorable member for Cook <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. C. Riley)</inline> about the unfair competition the local manufacturers of cotton piece goods were meeting with because of importations from Asiatic countries. The honorable member for Moreton <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Francis)</inline> also delivered a fine speech in support of the request made by the honorable member for Cook, and I have been thinking&#39; very seriously over the matter. It was <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Pratten</inline> who, as Minister for Trade and Customs, first gave protection to the cotton tweed industry in Australia, with the result that many factories have been established in this country, capable of turning Out an article equal to anything produced in any other part of the world. That can be seen from the samples exhibited in the chamber to-night, and I ask honorable members&#39; to compare them with the inferior cotton tweeds under 6 oz. in -weight which are brought in to defeat the protection afforded to the local industry. There is a great deal in the contention of the honorable member for Cook, that, in order to safeguard the Australian factories, the weight of the cloth on which the duty is payable should be reduced to 5 oz. The honorable member for Cook, as a private member, cannot submit an amendment, but I accept his suggestion, supported as it has been by the honorable member for Moreton, and at the proper time I shall move the following amendment </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>That the item be amended by adding after sub-item (a) (1) the following: - &#34;And on and after the 21st May, 1931.&#34; </para>
          <list type="loweralpha">
            <item label="(b)">
              <para>Cotton piece goods ordinarily used for manufacture into outer clothing for human wear which in pattern design or appearance resemble woollen piece goods used for the same purpose and which weigh more than 5 ounces per square yard (except piece goods enumerated in sub-item  (aa)  ) - the invoice selling price of which does not exceed the equivalent of 3s. 4d. per square yard, British,1s. 3d.; intermediate, 2s.: general, 2s. 6d; and ad val._. British, 35 percent. ; intermediate, 4-5 per cent. ; general, 50 per cent, </para>
            </item>
            <item label="(c)">
              <para>Cotton piece goods ordinarily used for manufacture into outer clothing for human wear which in pattern design or appearance resemble woollen piece goods used for the same purpose and which weighmore than5ounces per square yard (except piece goods enumerated in sub-item  (aa) )  -the invoice selling priceof which exceeds the equivalent of 3s. 4d. pir square yard, ad val;, British, 45 per cent.; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general,60 per cent. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2135</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFS</name.id>
              <electorate>Henty</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The Minister has been Speaking of false Statements made by honorablemembers. I do not wish to charge him with having made false statements, but this evening he has been&#39; guilty of gravely Misleading the committee. For instance&#39;, at the&#39; outsetof his speech, he referred to certain remarks of the honorable member for Gippsland <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Paterson)</inline> . I should like the Minister to listen, to what I am saying, because it will discredit every statement subsequently made by him, and indicate that his explanations are not worthy of credence. The honorable member for Gippsland said that&#39; the Tariff. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Board, in its report dated the 30th June, 1930, had reported against increased duties for cotton piece goods. The Minister had the impudence to say that the request covered by the Tariff Board&#39;s report dealt only with increased duties on denims, drills, jeans, dungarees, and cloths in the grey. As a matter of fact, as shown on the covering page of the report, there was a second reference in this report, and it was whether a deferred duty should be provided to cover &#34; other cotton piece goods &#34;. It is an exceedingly grave and unprecedented thing for a Minister, with an official document in his hand, to make wild and wide statements in contradiction of other honorable members. I admit that the second reference to the Tariff Board mentioned a &#34; deferred &#34; duty ; but lest the Minister should endeavour to take shelter behind that fact I come now to the recommendation of the Tariff Board. It was most specific. It was - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>The Tariff Board recommends that no alteration be made in the existing duties provided by the Customs Tariff in respect of denims, drills, dungarees, jeans, or any other cotton piece goods. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">There can be no possibility of misunderstanding in regard to the matter. The Minister said that the item now before the committee was not dealt with by the Tariff Board in this particular report. The item before the committee includes cotton piece goods, ordinarily used for manufacture, and so on. The Minister has thus been guilty of a very grave offence, which has no precedent in the Commonwealth Parliament, and I am speaking with a knowledge of it extending over 30 years. However, we have learnt a lesson to-night. We know now what credence we can place in the Minister&#39;s statements, and what value we can place on the figures he has quoted to prove that reductions in price levels have been brought about by his precious protection policy. </para>
          <para>We have had a long speech from the Minister on the old theory of the new protection. When listening to him, I was asking myself whether we were a parliamentary committee considering the tariff, or an assembly somewhat of the nature of a new Arbitration Court. The honorable gentleman indulged in a prolonged apology to the trade unions of this country because he had some difficulty in bringing the tariff into operation as an arbitration measure, or, in other words, because he was confronted by constitutional obstacles to the use of the tariff to prevent a reduction of wages, either through the fall in the cost of living, or by an award of the Arbitration Court. Surely this is an extraordinarily serious plea that has been made by the Minister, and an apology on behalf of the tariff which this country must view with grave concern. The tariff was never intended to be a wage maker, or a wage upholder. The Minister expressed the deepest regret that the matter of upholding wages, and maintaining existing hours of employment, was outside the ambit of his power. That was tantamount to admitting the futility of the assurance given by the Prime Minister <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Scullin)</inline> that if manufacturers increased prices as the result of increased duties, or if they did not maintain wages, those duties would be removed. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2136</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>L1C</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LEWIS, Arthur</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Lewis</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- When did the Prime Minister make that statement? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2136</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- He has made it in this chamber a dozen times. The Minister, in reality, has declared that as wages fall, in accordance with the reduction of the cost of living, or because of awards of the Arbitration <inline font-style="italic">Court, the</inline> tariff must <inline font-style="italic">go</inline> up. That is an ominous doctrine for the Australian people, and, particularly, for the primary producers, because it makes the whole policy of protection an absolute menace and blight. Unless we Australian people are able to sell primary produce profitably overseas, in great quantities, we are almost doomed. The Minister has propounded something entirely new in tariff-making. To-day there are 400,000 unemployed in this country, and, if such a policy succeeded, many more of our people would be out of work - in fact, we should always have unemployed, and the future of Australia would be dark, indeed. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2136</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
              <electorate>Martin</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- As the proposer of the motion for the postponement of this item, I desire to reply to some of the statements that have been made. I thank the Minister for the trouble that he has taken in securing the information that he has offered to the committee ; but no valid reasons have bees given why the motion that I have submitted should not be supported. The information furnished by the Minister is, in the main, irrelevant, as were most of the statements made by honorable members opposite. I think that the honorable member for Wide Bay <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Corser)</inline> finished up in . a cotton field. The object of the motion is not the abolition, or reduction, of the proposed duty, and there was no need for the allusions by several members, including the Minister himself. to the tragedy of unemployment that would follow the removal of the duty. The Minister might as well have talked about &#34; the flowers that bloom in the spring &#34;, which, like his remarks, &#34;have nothing to do with the case &#34;. In a &#34; boystoodoutheburningdeck &#34; type of speech, the honorable member for Henty <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gullett)</inline> tried to rouse the committee to a state of expectancy over some terrible disclosures that he was about to make. He intended to establish the perfidy of the Minister in charge of the bill. He made a number of random statements, and I, personally, would like to have a copy of the text of his charges, so that I might examine them in detail. The members of the group with which I am associated are representatives of Labour from the State of New South Wales, and our action is the result of a request from the union of the organized textile workers in the industry concerned. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2137</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Stewart</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Who have contributed to the party funds, and who have been &#34; sold a pup &#34;. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2137</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That remains to be seeD. We may still be able to persuade the Government to do something in the direction of meeting the expectations of those who have sent us into this Parliament. I say that because of the splendid contribution to this debate by the honorable member for Bendigo <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Keane).</inline></para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>As I have already said, an appeal has been addressed to the members of my group as Labour men, and as representatives of New South Wales. The representatives of the union are backed by the Sydney Trades and Labour Council. Their appeal contains a number of specific statements which cannot be sidetracked by the Minister or by anybody else. It is pointed out that the influence of the organized workers in this&#39; country, and in this industry in particular, was used to have restrictions placed on the importation of goods from overseas, so that the interests of the workers in this industry would be safeguarded, and so that their employers would be protected from unfair overseas competition, which it was hoped would give these organized workers continuity of employment, and maintain or improve their wages and conditions. Otherwise, the standard of living that has been laboriously built up by our party would be lowered. The first point to be established is whether that statement is correct or not. The efforts made by this union to have the tariff rates increased practically stopped the importation of textiles that could be manufactured in Australia. I ask, is that correct or not? The object of my motion is not to abolish the duties; but, simultaneously with the attempt of the employers in this industry to secure the advantages of an increased tariff, there happens to be a move on their part to secure a 10 per cent, reduction of the wages of the employees. Can the Government ignore thi3 circumstance? If what I have outlined is a fact - and it cannot be denied - surely the Labour Government in this Parliament will not say that it is a matter that does not concern it. Despite all that has been said about an attempt being made to use the tariff as an arbitration court, the fact remains that we cannot divorce considerations of wage principles, working conditions, and general standards of living from tariff principles and proposals. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2137</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Will not all these matters be taken into consideration when the court deals with the case ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2137</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- We have to consider them in the light of the platform and policy of the Australian Labour Party,  whose  representatives we are supposed to be; we cannot deal with them from the point of view of our opponents. They are entitled to their own viewpoint; but there should be less readiness on the part of the Government to take up an attitude of almost willing surrender of the principles and platform of the Australian Labour Party, out of a pitiful desire to please their declared opponents by appearing politically respectable. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Keane</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Has not increased employment occurred in consequence of these duties? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I submit that that question is entirely irrelevant. In response to the appeal made to us by the union concerned, and by the Sydney Trades and Labour Council,we are entitled to ask that the decision on these duties shall be postponed until the representatives of the organized -workers have received the consideration to which they are entitled. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Riordan</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- If the honorable member does not believe that the duties should be abolished, what purpose would a conference serve should the persons concerned refuse to come forward ? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is not for me to say. The workers being threatened with a reduction of 10 per cent, in their wages at a time when the employers are appealing for increased tariff consideration would be betraying themselves and their comrades, and those depending on them, if they did not direct attention to the matter, and I submit that, if it rejects my amendment, the Government and those supporting it in this particular instance will be betraying those who sent them here to carry out the policy and platform of the Australian Labour party. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Riordan</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Do they suggest that the existing duties should be removed? </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That has nothing to do with the motion I have submitted. Simultaneously with an attempt to secure increased benefits from a Labour Government the employers are attempting to reduce wages. In view of all the circumstances, the matter should be further inquired into before a final determination is reached. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>L1C</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LEWIS, Arthur</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Lewis</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- They were a party to the increased duties. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- They were not a party to the attempt which was being made to smash their wages. I personally regard it as unfortunate that a Minister of the Crown who, I suppose, should know his business, should appeal to a legal authority - <inline font-weight="bold">Sir Robert</inline> Garran - and be entirely guided by his dictum. I. am making no reflection whatever upon the Solicitor-General. I submit that a Labour Government and its supporters should pay greater respect to the opinions- </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Of unionists. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Certainly. I am here to represent the unionists. We should be candid in matters of this kind, and I do not intend to burk the question. This Government was returned to represent the trade unionists and the Trade and Labour Councils of Australia. No Labour man should need convincing as to the merits of the appeal made by the workers in the industry concerned. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Mr.Keane. - That appeal is made only by a branch of a union, and not by a federal organization. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is made by an important section of unionists in New South Wales, whom I represent. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Keane</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member is referring to a request made by a union in <inline font-style="italic">one</inline> State, whereas the federal union represents all States. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2138</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ELDRIDGE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I am putting forward the case submitted to me and my colleague, which forms the basis of the motion which I have moved. It is not my responsibility to pay regard to the opinions of others. The motion has not been submitted with the intention of causing any injury to the industry, and 1 am not reflecting in any way upon those who control it. Some honorable members spoke at great length concerning the superlative merits of the business enterprise and production of the Australian textile industry, but these merits are not questioned. My colleague and I have already paid the highest possible tribute to the Australian textile industry; but some honorable members have apparently overlooked the fact that the high reputation which it enjoys is in a large measure, if not entirely, due to the class and skill of employees engaged in it, without whose services it could not have developed in the way it has done. It is on their behalf that I have submitted my motion, which I think is fully justified, and should be seriously considered by the Government and its supporters. Its defeat will mean the betrayal of those who sent the Labour party into power - by those to whom the workers of this country are looking for relief, especially in circumstances such as those I have mentioned. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2139</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXT</name.id>
              <electorate>Gippsland</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PATERSON, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr PATERSON</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I wish to supplement what has already been said by the honorable member for Henty <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gullett)</inline> in contradiction of the statement of the Minister <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Forde),</inline> that the Tariff Board&#39;s recommendation which I previously quoted refers only to item 105 a 1 <inline font-style="italic">a,</inline> which has already been dealt with. I do not charge the Minister with having deliberately misled the committee, as I believe he has given the committee the information supplied to him by his officers. But just as the Minister said that I had walked into a trap, I think his advisers unwittingly and unwillingly have dug a pit into which the Minister has fallen headlong. I wish to prove my assertion that the Tariff Board&#39;s report does deal with cotton piece goods other than those referred to in item 105 a 1 <inline font-style="italic">a.</inline> In the first place, the Tariff Board sets out a table of existing duties, and the items upon which requests have been made for increased duties. In setting out the existing duties the Tariff Board mentions item 105 a 1 <inline font-style="italic">a</inline> and sub-items <inline font-style="italic">b</inline> and c and the whole of the existing duties which are now being replaced by sub-items <inline font-style="italic">a, b,</inline> and c. The Tariff Board then sets out the request made by different manufacturers, the first of which reads - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="1.">
              <para>By Texo Cotton Manufactures Limited (not proceeded with). That denims, drills, dungarees, and cloths in the grey used in the manufacture of overalls and outer wear be made dutiable under Tariff Item 105 (a) (1) (6) or (c) instead of, as at present under Tariff Item 105 (a) (1) <inline font-style="italic">(a).</inline></para>
            </item>
          </list>
          <para class="block">There is another request which reads - </para>
          <list type="decimal-dotted">
            <item label="2.">
              <para>By Chairman of Cotton Tweed Section of Victorian Chamber of Manufactures on behalf of members of that section - </para>
              <list type="loweralpha">
                <item label="(a)">
                  <para>That a separate sub-item be provided in item 105 of the customs tariff to cover denims, drills, jeans, and dungarees in the grey or otherwise for use in the manufacture of outer clothing for human wear and which weigh more than 5 ounces per square yard with the following duties. </para>
                </item>
              </list>
            </item>
          </list>
          <para class="block">The duties are then set out in the board&#39;s report. Honorable members will notice specific reference to piece goods &#34; for use in the manufacture of outer clothing for human wear &#34; and that the weight per square yard is the same as in paragraph <inline font-style="italic">b,</inline> which we are now discussing. The next requests deals with item 392 a 1, and contains the request that the words &#34; and which weigh more than 6 ounces per square yard &#34; be deleted from item 105a l <inline font-style="italic">b</inline> and from item 105 a 1 c. It is quite evident that the Tariff Board in this report dealt at least to some extent, with <inline font-style="italic">a, b</inline> and <inline font-style="italic">c,</inline> and that the report does not refer exclusively to the goods mentioned in <inline font-style="italic">a.</inline></para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2139</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Nothing of the sort. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2139</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXT</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PATERSON, Thomas</name>
                <name role="display">Mr PATERSON</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The Minister will have an opportunity to further explain the position if he so desires. On the last page of the report just before the recommendation, the following paragraph appears :  - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <list type="loweralpha">
            <item label="(b)">
              <para>Deferred duties on other cotton piece goods. As regards the question of the pro-  vision of deferred duties in respect of cotton piece goods other than those covered by the application, the manufacture of -which might be started in conjunction with the existing and proposed cotton weaving industry no evidence was tendered to the board which in its opinion would justify action in the direction indicated. </para>
            </item>
          </list>
          <para class="block">The following is the paragraph to which I direct the specific attention of the committee :  - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>For reasons similar to those already given herein in the case of drills, denims, dungarees and jeans, the board does not favour any alteration in the existing rates of duty on cotton piece goods at this juncture. If, in the course of future developments of the cotton industry in Australia, the need for duties other than those at present operating should become apparent - further inquiry could be made into the matter -with a view to such action as might be warranted by conditions then obtaining. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">This report was published on the 30th June of last year. I submit that that is indisputable evidence that in making its recommendations the board considered not only those goods covered by item105 a 1 <inline font-style="italic">a</inline> but the whole of the cotton piece goods which come within the ambit of the item under discussion. , Nothingcould be more comprehensive in character than the board&#39;s statement that - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>If in the course of future development of the cotton industry in Australia the need for duties other than those at present operating should become apparent, further inquiry could be made into the matter with a view to such action as might be warranted by conditions then obtaining. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The board&#39;s recommendation reads - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>The Tariff Board recommends that no alteration be made in the existing duties provided by the Customs Tariff in respect of denims, drills, dungarees, jeans or other cotton piece goods. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">The whole of this report, beginning, as it does, by setting out the existing duties applicable to <inline font-style="italic">a, b</inline> and c, deals with the requests received from the manufacturers under those headings. Before a recommendation is made in the report there is a statement of the board in regard to the future development of the industry, to the effect that until some such future development takes place there will be no necessity to impose further duties on cotton piece goods. In the recommendation there are the simple words &#34; or other cotton piece goods.&#34; If that is not evidence that should be accepted as to the meaning of the board&#39;s report, I do not know what evidence is needed. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2140</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4U</name.id>
              <electorate>Capricornia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Minister for Trade and Customs</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
              <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I shall reply to the point raised by the honorable member for Gippsland <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Paterson).</inline> Before I asserted that the honorable member was wrong in stating that the Tariff Board recommended that the duty should not be increased on cotton tweeds, I consulted the officers of my department, who have had a great deal to do with the tariff, and who are thoroughly conversant with the investigations made by the Tariff Board in the matter. In addition, I personally read the report of the Tariff Board, and I came to the conclusion that it did not refer to cotton tweeds. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2140</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Apologize to the committee. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2140</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr FORDE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That attitude does not become even an ex-Deputy Leader of the Opposition. The recommendations of the Tariff Board in this matter are under two heads, one dealing with a request for increased duties on denims, drills, jeans, dungarees and cloths in the grey, and the second with &#34;whether a deferred duty should be provided to cover other cotton piece goods.&#34; &#34;Why should the board inquire into a deferred duty on cotton tweed when there was a duty already operating in regard to that item?. The deferred duty referred to would be one that would operate at some future date on cotton goods not now being manufactured in </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para class="block">Australia. Cotton tweeds were then being manufactured in Australia and were enjoying the protection contained in this schedule before the House. There is a gentleman in the gallery whose firm manufactures cotton tweeds, and he assures me that the inquiry concerned only denims, drills, jeans, dungarees and cloths in the grey and other cotton piece goods, but not cotton tweeds. So that what I stated was absolutely correct. I do not believe that the honorable member for Gippsland endeavoured to mislead the committee, but I am surprised that a gentleman who held the position of  Deputy  Leader of the Opposition should have tried to do so. If I were in the wrong I should be prepared to withdraw my statement and apologize, but I am assured by my officers, and the gentleman to whom I have referred, that what I have stated is absolutely correct. Paragraph <inline font-style="italic">b,</inline> which appears at page 8 of the report by the Tariff Board, reads - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>As regards the question of the provision of deferred duties- &#34; Deferred duties,&#34; mark you. The duties already operating on cotton tweeds were not deferred duties, so that reference could not relate to cotton tweeds. The paragraph continues - in respect of cotton piece goods, other than those covered by the application, the manufacture of which might be started in conjunction with the existing and proposed cotton-weaving, no evidence was tendered to the board . . . </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">Honorable members will notice, that the paragraph says &#34; might be started.&#34; The manufacture of cotton tweeds had already been, started in Australia, so that the words could not apply to them. I stand by what I have said, that the investigation was not into a duty on cotton tweeds, and that the recommendation of the Tariff Board has no application to that item. The duty imposed by the Government is but a small increase on that recommended by the Tariff Board in 1925. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2140</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
              <electorate>Kennedy</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
              <name role="display">Mr RIORDAN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I rise to speak to the motion moved by the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr.</inline> Eldridge.)  The honorable member dealt with a letter that had been received by him from the Australian Textile &#34;Workers Union, asking that the debate on this item should be postponed until a conference could be arranged by the Minis- ter, consisting of representatives of the textile manufacturers and workers, and departmental officers. I ask the honorable member whether, if it were within the province of the Government to call such a conference, he and the union concerned would accept the responsibility of wiping out the duty if the manufacturers refused to agree to withdraw their application for a wage reduction. The honorable member for Martin came here pledged to support the principle of arbitration. There are the consumers and other workers to be considered in addition to those whose case he has put forward to-day. Does the honorable member believe in the fixation of wages by Parliament? If he does he must be consistent and advocate that principle in connexion with the fixation of wages for all workers. What about the wages of shearers, dairy employees, those in the cotton-picking industry, and so forth? </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2141</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The flowers that bloom in the Spring.  . . &#34; </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2141</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
                <name role="display">Mr RIORDAN</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Nobody has listened to a more flowery or more inconsistent gentleman than the honorable member for Martin, and 110 one knows him better than I do. For a long time he has &#34; got away &#34; with it, but he is not going to get away with is so far as the workers are concerned. I want to know whether he is prepared to go the full distance and support the removal of these duties if the manufacturers refuse to withdraw their application for a 10 per cent, wage reduction. In reply to an interjection, the honorable member said that it Was irrelevant to the issue and referred to his pretty little verse about the &#34;flowers that bloom in the spring&#34;. He is one of the flowers blooming in this chamber, and he has proved a bad advocate for the case that has been handed to him. I believe that the Australian Textile Workers Union originally asked for protection to be granted to this industry in which they are employed, and that union&#39;s advocate in this chamber must state whether he is prepared to take the responsibility of having those duties withdrawn, if the suggested conference proves abortive. If such a conference could be convened, it should be representative of every interested section of the community. There are others besides the textile workers who are deserving of consideration. Already those workers have the protection of the Arbitration Court. This Government was returned on a policy of arbitration. An arbitration bill was one of the measures introduced when the honorable member, now followed by the honorable member for Martin, was Minister for Labour and Industry, and that gentleman was one of the party managers who conferred with members of another place on the measure. He, too, was returned on a policy of arbitration. Further, one of the planks of the New South Wales Labour party supports arbitration, and as an arbitration bill is now before the New South Wales State House, the honorable member for Martin must be frank, instead of referring in his flowery manner to the words of Nanki-Poo. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2141</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KV8</name.id>
              <electorate>Wimmera</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
              <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The motion submitted by the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> is the subject under discussion. The honorable member was very vague in giving reasons in support of it. Although honorable members on his own side of the chamber requested reasons why the item should be postponed, and asked what the Government was expected to do in the matter, that honorable member refused to enlighten them. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2141</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KNP</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">MAXWELL, George</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Maxwell</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- He was a wise man. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2141</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I should say he was very wise in being so discreet. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2141</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Riordan</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- If the honorable member&#39;s amendment is a sincere one, he was not. wise in being so vague. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2141</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I do not wish to reply to the interjection of the honorable member for Kennedy <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Riordan),</inline> who was unkind enough to suggest that the members of the Australian Textile Workers Union have placed their brief in most unfortunate hands. I conclude that the honorable member for Martin is asking the Government to postpone the debate on this item in order that the Minister may convene a three-party conference consisting of the manufacturers and the employees concerned, and representatives of the Department of Trade and Customs. I take it that if the manufacturers are not inclined to withdraw their application for a 10 per cent, reduction of wages, the Government will be expected to withdraw the additional duties which it has imposed on cotton piece goods. That is just what he studiously refrained  from saying, but it is what, he wants. The union considers that it has been &#34; sold a pup &#34; over this matter. These hard-working unionists have contributed their hard-earned money to the fighting fund which helped to put the Government of the day where it is. The union also supported the employers, at least morally, in their application for increased duties, and now they feel that they have been betrayed by both parties, by the Government on the one hand, and by the manufacturers on the other. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Riordan</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is not admitted that the Government let the unionists down. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Perhaps not, but that is what the union believes. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYV</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr E RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It does not even contend that. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- We have it on the authority of the  president  of the Textile Workers Union that the unionists contributed to the party funds. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYV</name.id>
                <electorate>SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RILEY, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr E RILEY</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I should like to see the president&#39;s letter. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I shall leave the honorable member to argue the matter out with the  president  of the union. It is not I who am making these charges; I am merely trying to say what the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> refrained from saying, namely, what his real purpose was in asking for the postponement of this item. The Minister has refused to agree to the amendment on the ground that if he postponed the item to enable a conference of outside parties to be held, he would create a precedent which would be taken advantage of by those interested in other industries. In that, I think, he is right. The parties to this bargaining seem not to have paid the least consideration to the claims of the general public who have to pay the piper. Evidently they believe that there is an inexhaustible well in which they can dip their buckets, and distribute the proceeds in the form of largesse to those whose interests they are supporting. In this matter I propose to support the Minister in tha stand he has taken. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2142</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KX7</name.id>
              <electorate>East Sydney</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- It is rather surprising to witness the reversal of form on the part of some honorable members who oppose the amendment. It is true that those on this side of the House were elected to support a policy of arbitration, but I well remember the eloquent speeches of many of them who said that, while they supported arbitration, they did not believe in one-sided arbitration, and if they were returned to Parliament they would do their best to have the. Arbitration Court reconstituted so as to enable the workers to get a fair deal. Now those same honorable members, who were so eloquent when seeking the votes of the workers, admit frankly that, though sympathizing with them over their reduced wages and longer working hours, nothing can be done to help them. I hope that when the next appeal is made to the people they will tell the workers that they have no control over wages or working conditions. It has been said that if this conference is called, representatives of all sections of the community should be invited to attend. It has also been said that the mover of the amendment was not candid enough to state the reason for which he desired the item ro be postponed. I have no hesitation in stating why I support the amendment. I propose to adopt every means in my power to prevent the wages of the workers in this industry from being reduced. I desire that the wishes of the workers be given effect to. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KYZ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">RIORDAN, David</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Riordan</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- But the workers do not state what they desire. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Well, is the honorable member prepared to agree to the postponement of the item until we can find out what the workers desire in regard to the application now before the court? It must be quite evident that the workers do not desire that their wages should be reduced. I agree that if protection is removed from this industry, at the request of the men employed in it, by the workers&#39; own elected representatives the workers themselves must accept responsibility for what is done; but if, on the other hand, the workers elected representatives, who owe their election to the funds subscribed by the workers, fail to do what they can to prevent wages from being reduced and hours lengthened, then the responsibility surely rests upon those representatives. They cannot have it both ways. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2142</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Still the honorable member votes for the Government. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2143</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- As we have often pointed out., when it conies to a choice between two evils, we are prepared for the time being to keep the Government in office, rather than allow the avowed opponents of labour- </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2143</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7U</name.id>
              <electorate>CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Hon R A Crouch</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- Order! I cannot allow the honorable member to continue in that strain. I should not have allowed the interjection. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2143</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  It was offensive to the Labour party. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.If that is meant as a reflection upon the Chair I ask the honorable member to withdraw his remark. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2143</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KFS</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Gullett</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  No reflection was intended. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2143</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KX7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
                <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I abide by your ruling, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Chairman.</inline> When one has a strong case, on does not mind answering interjections. Every possible means will be adopted by the group of which I am a member to prevent the slashing of wages and the lengthening of hours. Many honorable members on this side of the House, when supporting proposals for protection at the request of employers, have said that it would help to provide employment. If that attitude is carried to its logical conclusion, they must believe, presumably, that work with no wages at all would be better than no work at all. No doubt, if wages were cut in half by the Arbitration Court, this Labour Government would still say - &#34; We are sympathetic towards the workers; we are prepared to take their money when we desire to contest, an election ; but we are not prepared to make an attempt to help them by having the Arbitration Court reconstituted. We are powerless to do that &#34;. It is strange that honorable members who support the Government should admit their powerlessness to do anything for the workers when considering tariff questions. All they are able to do is to discuss whether one set of capitalists are to have an advantage over another set. If the tariff is used to protect industry, so that a high standard of living can be maintained, we are prepared to support a high tariff. We shall agree to protect any industry which will provide decent living conditions for those employed in it; but the group to which I belong will be no party to forcing the standard of living in this country down to the level of that in the low-wage countries of the world. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2143</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFS</name.id>
              <electorate>Henty</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I regret that the Minister persists in the misstatement he made to the committee to-night. I do not propose to labor the matter beyond pointing out that the Minister was incorrect in saying that the inquiry by the Tariff Board did not cover the proposal for an increased duty on cotton piece goods. I shall read again the recommendation of the Tariff Board - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>The Tariff Board recommends that no alteration be made in the existing duties provided by the Customs Tariff in respect of denhams, drills, dungarees, jeans, or other cotton piece goods. </para>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">I suggest that the Minister should, having regard to the dignity of his position, apologize to the committee. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2143</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>F4U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">FORDE, Francis Michael</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Forde</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  The honorable member should apologize, because he is still wrong. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2143</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate>Bendigo</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- Some of the statements of the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward)</inline> do not meet with, my approval. I agree with him that it is not right for an industry, having received tariff protection, to apply to the Arbitration Court for a reduction of wages. That, to my mind, is an appalling thing.  Within  the last six months the Federal Arbitration- Court has varied 117 awards by reducing wages. The recent reduction of 10 per cent.  wa3  the most monstrous thing ever done by any court. At various times employers have asked for increased tariff protectiongiving as a reason the high wages they have had to pay, and the high overhead costs they have had to bear. Protection, was given to them, and now they turn round and apply for a reduction of wages. To that extent I am in agreement with the honorable member for East Sydney, but I disagree with him when he, as  a  new member, takes it upon himself to brand other honorable members on this side of the House as incompetent. He stated that during the election campaign we promised that wages would not be reduced, and that we would stand firm for industrial arbitration. Let me remind the honorable member that the leader of his party was in charge of the bill which this Government introduced with the object of giving effect to its promises. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>What would be the effect of postponing this item? In my opinion the workers in the industry would be liable to suffer. I believe that there should be some inquiry in regard to the wage position. There is no justification for the abnormal wage slashes that have been made. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2144</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Stewart</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  But while the wages are being cut, the Government is increasing the duty. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2144</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  That is the point. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2144</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KE4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr KEANE</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- That is not so, for this duty has been in operation for months, and the wage slashes have been made only recently. The honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> has read a letter from the  president  of the New South Wales branch of the Textile Workers Union, but I and several other honorable members have been communicated with by urgent telegram by the federal secretary of the union. The telegram which I received read - </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <quote>
            <para>Urge you request Forde to convene conference of textile industries all States re tariff and wage rates for industry. (Signed)  Lark,  General Secretary, </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Textile Workers Union</title>
          <page.no>2144</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para class="block">The general secretary is the only officer with authority to speak on behalf of the organization to federal members. I point out to honorable members that no suggestion has been made by him that consideration- of this duty should be deferred. If it were deferred a feeling of instability would be engendered in the industry, and the employees would be in fear of unemployment. I am not prepared to face that possibility. -In a time like this we should not jeopardize the employment of one man or woman. I regret that the amendment has not been withdrawn. The matter could be handled effectively in another way. Honorable members opposite have suggested that there is an unholy alliance between the employers and the employees in this industry; but we can dismiss that suggestion as unworthy of consideration. </para>
        <interjection>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2144</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFE</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GREGORY, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr Gregory</name>
            </talker>
            <para>-  Oh, no. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </interjection>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2144</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KE4</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">KEANE, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr KEANE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The honorable member for Swan <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gregory)</inline> would like to abolish all our wage standards and wagefixing tribunals. The honorable member for Wimmera <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Stewart)</inline> has pointed out that three parties must be considered in this matter, namely, the employers, the employees, and the consumers. I agree with him. Some time ago the employers in this industry made an application for an increase of duty, and it was granted; but during an abnormal period they are reducing the wages of their employees. In the circumstances the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge)</inline> should withdraw his amendment and allow the matter to be dealt with in another way. The duty should be agreed to; but the Government should take steps to protect the interests of the workers in the industry. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2144</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
              <electorate>Warringah</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
              <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. -  The position of this industry has been grossly misrepresented during this debate. It has been alleged that the employers have been unfairly reducing the wages of their employees. This afternoon I read a letter to honorable members which was similar to the one read this evening by the Minister for Trade and Customs <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Forde),</inline> in which it was shown indisputably that all the employers in the textile industry in New South Wales desire is to bring wages and conditions in that State into conformity with those which obtain in the other States of the Commonwealth. To-day the workers in this industry in Victoria are operating under a 48-hour week, and they are receiving less wages a week than the employees in the industry in New South Wales are receiving for a 44-hour week. The employers in New South Wales simply desire that the conditions in their State shall be made uniform with those in Victoria and other States. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2144</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>-  We are not here to represent the views of the employers. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>
            <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. ARCHDALE</inline>PARKHILL.The honorable member does not seem to realize that unless something is done to bring New South Wales conditions into conformity with those of Victoria, the workers in the industry in New South Wales will soon be out of a job; for all the orders will go to Victoria and the other States. Apparently the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge),</inline> and his colleague, the honorable member for East Sydney <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Ward),</inline> care very little about what will happen to the workers  so long as they can. win a pyrrhic victory against the Government on a paltry side issue in which no vital principle is involved. They simply desire to embarrass the Government. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2145</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I ask that that remark be withdrawn. It is not in accord with the facts,, and is personally offensive to me. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).That</inline> is not a point of order. </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2145</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- I did not rise to a point of order, but to raise a question of privilege. I regard the remarks of the honorable member for Warringah <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Parkhill)</inline> as personally offensive. I therefore ask that they be withdrawn, and the honorable member be required to apologize. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).Will</inline> the honorable member for Martin inform me of the words to which he takes exception ? </para>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2145</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KDJ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">ELDRIDGE, John</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Eldridge</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The honorable member for Warringah stated that my object in . moving the amendment was to embarrass the Government and to gain a pyrrhic victory. I regard that remark as offensive. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2145</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CHAIRMAN, The</name>
              <name role="display">The CHAIRMAN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>- The statement complained of is not unparliamentary, and, in my judgment, cannot be regarded as offensive. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Gabb)</inline> negatived - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That the question be nowput. </para>
          </quote>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2145</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KXQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">PARKHILL, Robert</name>
                <name role="display">Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- It is obvious that the committee is in agreement with the view which I have expressed. The Minister has explained at great length the nature of the communications which he has received from the industrial organizations concerned, and has stated that the Government cannot do anything without the consent of the unions concerned. He has confessed that he is not a free agent in this House; that he is bound to pay regard to views expressed outside. The preparation and submission of a tariff schedule as an instrument of taxation is the responsibility of the Government. The conditions under which persons shall be employed in industry is a matter to be determined by the Arbitration Courts of this country. The two functions are separate and distinct. This is proved in the words of the Minister himself. He has admitted that, because of tie limitations imposed upon this Parliament bv the Constitution, he cannot enforce the principle of the new protection. He has also admitted, that, even if he convened a conference, as has been suggested, he could only make an abortive threat to lift the duties, because if he took such drastic action, he should be inflicting a hardship upon legitimate and honest employers for the purpose merely of penalising one or two employers who might not be observing the awards of the Arbitration Court. There is not the slightest justification whatever for supporting the amendment. I intend to vote against it. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2145</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KIB</name.id>
              <electorate>Lang</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">LONG, William</name>
              <name role="display">Mr LONG</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I intend to vote against the amendment. I should not have spoken upon this item but for the remarks of the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge),</inline> who conveyed the impression that he and one or two others were the only honorable members, particularly on the Government side, who were in any way concerned about the welfare of employees in the textile and subsidiary industries. The imposition of a tariff is a &#34;matter of national concern. Even if arrangements were made for a conference it would be advisable to ratify the whole of the tariff schedule pending its decision. The proposal seems to be altogether too vague. No one can say how long it would take to summon the conference, and how long that body would take to arrive at a decision. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2145</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KV8</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
                <name role="display">Mr Stewart</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Or what decision would be reached by the conference. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2145</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>KIB</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">LONG, William</name>
                <name role="display">Mr LONG</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- Exactly. Instead of postponing consideration of this important item pending the decision of a conference, it would be much better to pass a measure ratifying . the tariff schedule so as to allow industries which have been working under the new tariff to continue in operation. It is significant that, although the honorable gentleman has been associated with the Government and its supporters ever since he has been a member of this House, this is the only occasion upon which he has raised any  objection.&#39; to these&#39; items&#39;. Although -there are, in the Lang division, three of the largestwoollen mills, and the1 largest knitting mill in the Commonwealth-, I have never had-, from individual unionists or&#39; from union officials-, . complaints of- the nature indicated, by the honorable member for Martin <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Eldridge).</inline> In at least one&#39; of the&#39; mills&#39; in my electorate, the&#39; employee&#39;s are in1 receipt  of  wages abovethe awardrates. In the tailoring a&#39;n&#39;d clothing, factories of New South Wales alone there are 11,571 employees, as compared with a total for&#39; theCommonwealth of 26,953. The total amount paid in  wages  in the year 1929 was, in New South Wales, &#163;1,583,000, and in Australia-, &#163;3,524,000. In the  subsidiarydressmaking  and millinery establishments &#39;therewere employed in that year 3,384 and 14,778 persons  in  New South Wales and Australia respectively the amount paid in wages- being &#163;335, 867 and &#163;1,532,734. Those figures indicate the importance of the industry  and  the desirability of having the schedule ratified, not in the&#39;, interests of the employers, but in the interests of Australia. I desire that the wages paid, in all industries &#39;in the Commonwealth  shall  be kept on as high  a  &#62;plane as possible.- The mere fact  that  the Arbitration Court reduction of 10  per dent. -  with which I totally disagree - applies to this &#39;industry does not justify withholding the ratification of the &#34;schedule. Consequently, I shall have no hesitation invoting against the amendment; </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>Mr.M AXWELL (Fawkner) &#91;10.22&#93; . - All  &#39;that  I wishto  say  isthis- </para>
          <quote>
            <para>O wad some Pow&#39;r the giftie gie us, </para>
            <para>To see oursels as others see us! </para>
            <para>It wad fraemonie a blunderfree us, </para>
            <para>And foolish notion. </para>
          </quote>
          <para>Motion(by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Scullin)agreed</inline> to - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That the question be now put. </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question- That the paragraph be postponed (Mr. Eldridge&#39;s motion) - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>3</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>48</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority .. ..45 </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_49_2_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_49_2_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved in the negative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para>Motion negatived. </para>
        </division>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2146</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>C7E</name.id>
              <electorate>Cowper</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
              <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - On behalf of the honorable -member for Swan <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gregory),</inline> I move - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>That the item be amended by adding to subitem (a) (1) (b) the following: - &#34; And on and after the 2 1st day of May, 1931- </para>
            <list type="loweralpha">
              <item label="(b)">
                <para>Cotton . piece goods . . . - per square yard: British,1s&#39;.; intermediate,1s. 6d. ; general, 2s., and ad val.- British, 30 per cent.; intermediate, &#39;40 percent. ; general, 45 per cent.&#34; </para>
              </item>
            </list>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>23</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>28</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority . .  . . 5 </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_50_3_3_P.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_49_3_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_50_3_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved in the negative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para>Amendment negatived. </para>
          <para>Amendment (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Forde)</inline> proposed - </para>
          <para>That the item be amended by adding to subitem (a)(1) (b) the following: - &#34;And on and after- the- 21st May. 1931 - </para>
        </division>
        <list type="loweralpha">
          <item label="(b)">
            <para>Cotton- Piece Goods . . . which weighmore than5 ounces- per square yard . . .. - per square yard : British,1s. 3d.; intermediate, 2s.; general, 2s. 6d.; and ad val.: British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 45 per- cunt. ; general, 50 per cent.&#34; </para>
          </item>
        </list>
        <para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Gullett)</inline> agreed to - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the question be now put. </para>
        </quote>
        <para>Amendment agreed to. </para>
        <para>Paragraph, as amended, agreed to. </para>
        <list type="loweralpha">
          <item label="(a)">
            <para>(1) .... </para>
          </item>
          <item label="(c)">
            <para>CottonPieceGoods . . . which weigh inure than6ounces per square yard . . . the invoice selling price of which exceeds the equivalent of 3s. 4d. per square yard - ad val.: British-, 45 per- cent.; intermediate, 55 percent. ; general-, 60 per cent.. </para>
          </item>
        </list>
        <para>Amendment (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Forde).</inline> proposed - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the item be amended by adding to sub item, (a) (1) (c)the following: - &#34; And -on and after 21st May, 1931 - </para>
          <list type="loweralpha">
            <item label="(c)">
              <para>Cotton Piece- Goods ordinarily used  . . which weigh more than 5 ounces per square yard1 . . . ad <inline font-style="italic">val.:</inline> British, 45 per cent.; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general, 60 per cent.&#34; </para>
            </item>
          </list>
        </quote>
        <para class="block">Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Gullett)</inline> put - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the question be <inline font-style="italic">now</inline> put. </para>
        </quote>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>14</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para class="block">Majority . .  . . 19 </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_50_4_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_50_4_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved&#39; in the affirmative. </para>
          </division.result>
        </division>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question - That the amendment (Mr. Forde&#39;s) be agreed, to-put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>28</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>21</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority . .7 </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_51_5_3_P.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_50_5_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_51_5_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved in the affirmative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para>Amendment agreed to. </para>
        </division>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2148</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>C7E</name.id>
              <electorate>Cowper</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">PAGE, Earle</name>
              <name role="display">Dr EARLE PAGE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I move - </para>
          </talk.start>
          <quote>
            <para>That the item be further amended by adding after sub-item (a) (1) (c) the following: - &#34; And on and after the 21st May, 1931 - </para>
            <list type="loweralpha">
              <item label="(c)">
                <para>Cotton piecegoods ... ad val.; British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 50 per cent. </para>
              </item>
            </list>
          </quote>
          <para class="block">I am satisfied that this duty has been imposed under a complete misapprehension on the part of the Government. The Minister seems to think that it will help an Australian industry, but what he is really increasing is the cost of raw material for clothing, which cannot be made out of Australian material. </para>
          <para>This is another illustration of excessive duties defeating the purpose for which they were imposed, that of increasing the revenue and employment. They can have no effect on the production of cotton within Australia, as Australia&#39;s cotton is 95 per cent. of one class, and in the manufacture of these piece goods it is necessary to use various grades of American, Egyptian and Indian cotton. That this is a necessity is shown by the experience of the Australian Towel Manufacturers, who already find it imperative to import much of the yarn used to make their towels. This duty can only have the effect of increasing the price of goods to the consumer and is an unnecessary and unjust  tax on the worker. </para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2148</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>K7U</name.id>
              <electorate>Corangamite</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
              <name role="display">Mr CROUCH</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - Being in the Chair at the time I had not the opportunity to speak on the proposal to postpone the consideration of this item, but I think I am at liberty to say now what I wished to say then. The Labour party is pledged not to give protection to manufacturers unless protection is also extended to the unions. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Mr.coleman. - There is no constitutional power to put that into effect. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2148</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr CROUCH</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- By what is known as the Harvester decision our effort to carry out that policy proved to be unconstitutional; but the letters from the textile workers organizations, which have been read in the chamber to-night indicate that it is the desire of the workers that this item be postponed until by means of a conference, or in some other way, decent conditions for the workers are fixed. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).The</inline> committee is not dealing with that question at this moment. </para>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2148</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name.id>K7U</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <role />
                <in.gov>0</in.gov>
                <first.speech>0</first.speech>
                <name role="metadata">CROUCH, Richard</name>
                <name role="display">Mr CROUCH</name>
              </talker>
              <para>- The workers in the textile industry claim that they are not sufficiently protected. If any bodies can speak authoritatively for them, they are the Australasian Council of Trade Unions and the Federal and State textile unions to whose letters reference has been made. The Arbitration Court has failed in that it has reduced wages by 10 per cent., and if the employers are to have the benefit of increased duties, something should be done in the interests of the employees. The protection of the textile industry and every other industry has reached only the initial stage. Our reason for protection is that it protects the wages of Australian workers against the lower wages paid in other countries. If I support increased duties to industries that do not pay the wages that protection is designed to provide, I am no longer a protectionist. The workers in the textile industry can be protected only through our present control of the tariff, and if they are not well paid the primary producers will be the chief sufferers. I trust that the Minister will not allow the other items to pass until the employers who enjoy high duties are brought to heel. </para>
            </talk.start>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2148</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KV8</name.id>
              <electorate>Wimmera</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">STEWART, Percy</name>
              <name role="display">Mr STEWART</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I sympathize with those honorable members who protest against the action of the Government in increasing duties when wages are being reduced in all directions ; but I suggest that a simple remedy  is available. Those members who complain of the policy adopted by the Government should join members on this side. If the wages in the textile industry have been reduced 10 per cent., the duties should be reduced to a similar extent, in order to let the public have the benefit of reduced prices. The policy of honorable members on this side, who have consistently supported the principle of federal arbitration, is that awards of the court should be obeyed, whether they increase or reduce wages. In the case under consideration, the court has reduced wages, and we now have the spectacle of a Labour government, of all governments, bringing clown successive tariff schedules which put duties up when wages are coming down, with the deliberate object of enabling manufacturers to maintain high prices. </para>
          </talk.start>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2149</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KX7</name.id>
              <electorate>East Sydney</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WARD, Edward</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WARD</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- I desire to move that consideration of this item be postponed. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>The <inline font-weight="bold">CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).There</inline> is already an amendment before the committee by the right honorable member for Cowper <inline font-weight="bold">(Dr. Earle Page).</inline></para>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2149</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KZR</name.id>
              <electorate>Balaclava</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">WHITE, Thomas</name>
              <name role="display">Mr WHITE</name>
            </talker>
            <para>.- The point raised by the honorable member for Wimmera <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Stewart)</inline> should be investigated by the Commonwealth Statistician. It is high time that duties, wages and prices bore some relation to one another. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Scullin)</inline> agreed to - </para>
          <quote>
            <para>That the question be now put. </para>
          </quote>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question - That the amendment (Dr. Earle Page&#39;s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>20</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>28</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority . . 8 </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_52_6_3_P.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_52_6_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_52_6_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved in the negative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para>Amendment negatived. </para>
        </division>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question - That paragraph 1 c as amended be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>28</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>16</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority . .  . . 12 </para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_53_7_3_P.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_52_7_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_52_7_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved in the affirmative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para>Paragraph as amended agreed to. </para>
        </division>
        <list type="upperalpha">
          <item label="(A)">
            <para>. </para>
            <list type="decimal">
              <item label="(2)">
                <para>Calico for bag making as prescribed by departmental by-laws, British, free; intermediate, free; general, free. </para>
              </item>
            </list>
          </item>
        </list>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>Question - That the paragraph be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>49</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>2</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority 47 </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_53_8_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_53_8_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para>Question so resolved in the affirmative. </para>
          </division.result>
          <para>Paragraph agreed to. </para>
          <para>Progress reported. </para>
        </division>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>2150</page.no>
        <type>adjournment</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Day of Meeting</title>
          <page.no>2150</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Scullin)</inline> proposed - </para>
        <quote>
          <para>That the House do now adjourn. </para>
        </quote>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2150</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>KFS</name.id>
              <electorate>Henty</electorate>
              <party />
              <role />
              <in.gov>0</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">GULLETT, Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr GULLETT</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - I suggest to the Prime Minister that the House should not meet next week until &#34;Wednesday. I do that because Monday is Empire Day, and I think that most honorable members have engagements in their electorates on that day. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. &#34;Ward)</inline> put. </para>
          <para class="block">That the question be now put. </para>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <time.stamp />
            <para>The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Norman Makin.)</para>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>2</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>46</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
            </noes>
          </division.data>
          <para>Majority . .  . . 44 </para>
          <para>AYES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_53_9_1_A.jpg" />
          </para>
          <para>NOES</para>
          <para class="block">
            <graphic href="129331193105203_53_9_2_N.jpg" />
          </para>
          <division.result>
            <para class="block">Question so resolved in the negative- </para>
          </division.result>
        </division>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>2150</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name.id>F4Q</name.id>
              <electorate>Yarra</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <role>Prime Minister</role>
              <in.gov>1</in.gov>
              <first.speech>0</first.speech>
              <name role="metadata">SCULLIN, James Henry</name>
              <name role="display">Mr SCULLIN</name>
            </talker>
            <para>. - In reply to the honorable member for Henty <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Gullett)</inline> I may state that I have had from honorable members on both sides of the House a request such as he has made, to which I was not inclined to agree. I myself shall not be here next Tuesday, because I have to attend the Premiers&#39; Conference in Melbourne. I shall tell honorable members to-morrow when the House will be called together next week. </para>
          </talk.start>
          <para class="block">Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <adjournment>
      <adjournmentinfo>
        <page.no>2150</page.no>
        <time.stamp>23:21:00</time.stamp>
      </adjournmentinfo>
      <para class="block">House adjourned at 11.21 p.m. </para>
    </adjournment>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>