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19070927_senate_3_39.xml
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19070927_senate_3_39.xml
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<hansard xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<session.header>
<date>1907-09-27</date>
<parliament.no>3</parliament.no>
<session.no>2</session.no>
<period.no>0</period.no>
<chamber>SENATE</chamber>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<proof>0</proof>
</session.header>
<chamber.xscript>
<para class="block">Senate. </para>
<business.start>
<day.start>1907-09-27</day.start>
<para>The President took the chair at 10.30 a.m. and read prayers. </para>
</business.start>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>ALLEGED COAL COMBINE</title>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate>NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I desire to ask the Vice-President of the Executive Council, without notice, whether he has seen in the Melbourne newspapers to-day a report concerning the Coal Vend, in which <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Scott</inline> Fell and others give, with great circumstantiality, many definite statements, and, if so, whether he will bring those statements, with the other information supplied to him, under the notice of the Crown Law officers ? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate>VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Vice-President of the Executive Council</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I have not- read the information to which the honorable senator has referred, but I have observed the statements in the newspapers. I shall be very happy to bring both under the notice of the Department, but I may explain to the honorable senator that it is already actively engaged in making the inquiry which I promised. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Millen</name>
</talker>
<para>- Before the honorable senator resumes his seat, will he allow me to mention that in those statements the gentlemen concerned expressed a willingness to supply the Department with all information on the subject? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- Undoubtedly it will be availed of. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>- Arising out of the answer, I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Executive Council whether he can explain how it is that the AttorneyGeneral's Department has already found time to make an active, inquiry into this matter, notwithstanding that he informed the Senate a few days ago that during the course of the preceding four weeks it had been too busy to make any inquiry into .the allegations against the tobacco companies in respect of which he made a similar promise to the Chamber. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3899</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- My honorable friend' may not perhaps be aware that this inquiry did not start with the bringing of the matter under the notice of the Senate. An inquiry was being pursued prior to that event. I took the opportunity of discussing the matter with my honorable colleagues after I gave the promise, and I am now aware that in regard to this case an active inquiry is going on. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>ERECTION OF TELEPHONE WIRES</title>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>- I beg to ask the Minister of Home Affairs, without notice, whether he will use his influence with the Postmaster-General to extract for me from that official an answer to a communication which I addressed a long time ago with reference to the erection of telephone wires on existing telephone or telegraph posts in Western Australia, the persons desiring to use which expressed a willingness to pay a reasonable rent? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Millen</name>
</talker>
<para>- How long ago was that? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>- I forget whether it was sent months or quarters ago. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Millen</name>
</talker>
<para>- The honorable senator is impatient. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate>TASMANIA</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister for Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>-I know nothing of the communication referred to by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Neild,</inline> but I shall refer ray honorable colleague to it, and ask that a reply be expedited. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel Neild</name>
</talker>
<para>- I thank the honorable senator. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS</title>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KAH</name.id>
<electorate>NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WALKER, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator WALKER</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the Vice-Presi dent of the Executive Council, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>What steps are being taken by the Government to encourage a continuous stream of desirable European immigrants to the Commonwealth ? a., Has the Government's attention been drawn, for its information, to the following advertisement by the Government of the State of Queensland, respecting the great reduction in the rates of -passage money for nominated passengers from the United Kingdom or the Continent of Europe to the State of Queensland, namely : - </para>
</item>
</list>
<para class="block">IMMIGRATION TO QUEENSLAND. </para>
<para class="block">Nominated Passengers. </para>
<para class="italic">
<inline font-style="italic">Great Reduction in Rates.</inline>
</para>
<para class="block">Persons resident in Queensland wishing to obtain passages for their friends or relatives in the United Kingdom or the 'Continent of Europe may do so under the provisions of the Immigration Act at the following rates : - </para>
<para class="block">Males between one and twelve years, £2. </para>
<para class="block">Males between twelve and forty years, £4. </para>
<para class="block">Malesover forty and under fifty-five years, £8. </para>
<para class="block">Females between one and twelve years, £1. </para>
<para class="block">Females between twelve and forty years, £2. females over forty and under fifty-five years,£8. (N.B. - Infants under one year are free.) Half the fees paid will be returned to the nominor upon satisfactory proof being shown to the Immigration Agent that the nominees have been suitably provided for, and are not likelyto be of any further expense to the State. </para>
<para>Applications and payments to be made, according to the locality of the applicant, to the following officers : - </para>
<para class="block">Immigration Agent, Brisbane. </para>
<para class="block">Assistant Immigration Agent : - Bundaberg, Rockhampton, Mackay, Townsville. </para>
<para class="block">At other places in the State- the nearest Clerk of Petty Sessions. </para>
<list type="upperalpha-dotted">
<item label="J.">
<para>O'N. BRENAN, Immigration Agent. </para>
</item>
</list>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow - </para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>A small sum was expended last year in generally advertising Australia, and a much larger sum is on the Estimates for the current year. </para>
</item>
</list>
<para>Full information respecting the proposals of the Government will be given when the Estimates are being discussed. </para>
<list type="loweralpha-dotted">
<item label="a.">
<para>The Government are aware of the policy of the Government of Queensland to assist immigrants by reducing passage rates. </para>
</item>
</list>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KAH</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WALKER, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator WALKER</name>
</talker>
<para>- Arising out of the answer, I desire to ask the Minister whether he has noticed in the press the following cablegram from London, under date the 23rd September : - </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<quote>
<para>Emigration statistics show that in 1906 91,263 emigrants went from Great Britain and Ireland to Canada, 83,941 to the United States, and only 9,920 to Australia and New Zealand. </para>
</quote>
<para>I am afraid that the great bulk of those persons went to New Zealand. </para>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- I thank my honorable friend for bringing under my notice the telegram, which I may say I observed at the time. Certainly it indicates the desirability of offering special attractions to emigrants from Great Britain to come to these shores. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel Neild</name>
</talker>
<para>- Nearly the whole of the 9,920 emigrants referred to went to New South Wales, not to New Zealand. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>ANTIDOTE TO SNAKE-BITE</title>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K7D</name.id>
<electorate>QUEENSLAND</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">STEWART, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator STEWART</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the VicePresident of the Executive Council, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>Has the Government any intention of ascertaining from Morrissey, the snake charmer, the nature of his alleged antidote to snake-bite, and testing the same with a view to its publication in the general interest, if found to be effective ? </para>
</quote>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3900</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- This matter hardly comes within the immediate province of the Commonwealth Government. I am quite certain that if <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Morrissey's</inline> claims are <inline font-style="italic">bonâ fide,</inline> there are experts and officials in the Departments of the Commonwealth and the States who will not overlook them. </para>
</talk.start>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K7D</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">STEWART, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator STEWART</name>
</talker>
<para>- Arising out of the answer, may I ask the honorable senator whether it is to be left to the officials themselves to act, or whether the Government intend to direct that inquiries be made ? </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- As I have said, this matter does not come within the immediate province of the Commonwealth Government. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K7D</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">STEWART, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator Stewart</name>
</talker>
<para>- Why not, when it is a Federal matter? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- It oomes within the province of the States. The Health Departments, as the honorable senator must know, are under the control of the States, and I am quite certain that they will not overlook the matter. Moreover, I do not think that there are many persons who believe that <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Morrissey</inline> has established a <inline font-style="italic">bonâ fide</inline> claim to serious recognition. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>- Arising out of the answer, I beg to ask the Minister whether, in his opinion, it will be advisable to submit the matter of Morrissey's snakes to the officials who are now engaged in investigating the mysteries of voting machines ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>10000</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
<name role="display">The PRESIDENT</name>
</talker>
<para>- Order. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>BAXTER CASE: JUDICIARY BILL</title>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<type>bill</type>
</debateinfo>
<para class="block">
<inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Garran's</inline>Visit to London. </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the VicePresident of the Executive Council, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>What is the total sum estimated to cover the cost of the visit to London of the Secretary to the Attorney-General's Department, in connexion with the appeal to the Privy Council in the Baxter income tax case, including the cost of the discharge of the Secretary's duties in Australia during his absence? </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>What is the sum directly involved in the said appeal ? </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>Is it considered that the passing of the Judiciary Act Amending Bill affects the prosecution of the said appeal? </para>
</item>
</list>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow - </para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>£650. </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>The amount directly involved in the par ticular action the subject-matter of the appeal is comparatively small, but the appeal involves important constitutional issues arising under section 74 of the Constitution and seriously affecting the status of the High Court. </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>No. </para>
</item>
</list>
</speech>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>COMMONWEALTH SALARIES BILL</title>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<type>bill</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>Bill returned from the House of Representatives with an amendment. </para>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>APPROPRIATION (WORKS AND BUILDINGS) BILL</title>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<type>bill</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>Second Reading</title>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<para>Debate resumed from 26th September (vide page 3850) on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Best</inline> - </para>
<quote>
<para class="block">That this Bill be now read a second time. </para>
</quote>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>. - I congratulate Senators Millen and Pearce upon the very able speeches which they have contributed to this debate. I hope that the Government will seriously consider their suggestions for the solution of the financial problem. I cannot find any fault with tne items in this Bill except the item for defence. In my opinion, the Government do not seem "to realize the importance of the question of providing for our defence, and the proposed appropriation is framed on the most economical lines. I intend to speak hereafter with, regard to the item for the acquisition of a site in London for Commonwealth offices. Every thoughtful senator must recognise that the problem of the finances demands most earnest and prompt consideration, not only as regards the continuation of the Braddon " blot," but also as regards our ability to meet accruing obligations. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8T</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">TRENWITH, William</name>
<name role="display">Senator Trenwith</name>
</talker>
<para>- Why does the honorable senator continue to call the Braddon section of the Constitution a "blot"? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- If by a slip of the tongue I used the word " blot " I do not wish it to be imagined that I consider the provision a blot on the Constitution. I think that it contains elements of good as well as elements of weakness, and the only question to my mind is which elements preponderate. The necessity of dealing with the financial problem will be seen to be a very serious one when we recollect the various proposals that are in contemplation for public expenditure. Having regard to the sums which are to be spent upon the establishment of a system of oldage pensions, the erection of a Federal Capital, the construction of a transcontinental railway to Western Australia, the development of the Northern Territorv, and the office of High Commissioner, the Senate is entitled to ask the Government how it proposes to meet the expenditure. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3901</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JYX</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FINDLEY, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Findley</name>
</talker>
<para>- Would the honorable senator wait until the money was available for those purposes before he proceeded with the erection of a building in London ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3902</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- Two factors which affect our financial position require to be carefully considered. In agricultural, pastoral, and business centres there is at the present time a feeling of great anxiety with respect to the immediate future of Australia. It is idle for us to assume that, because we have had three years of plenty, our prosperity will continue indefinitely. I believe that Australia has a great future before it, but, as a business man, I know that just as there are cycles of depression alternating with periods of prosperity in business, so we have & right to expect vicissitudes of fortune dependent upon varying climatic conditions prevailing in a great continent like Australia. I wonder if people generally realize the causes of our great prosperity during the last three or four years. It cannot be contended that during that time Australia has developed as she ought to have done. Our population has been practically stationary, and the area of our lands under cultivation has not been materially increased. I go further, and say that <inline font-style="italic">in</inline> connexion with many industries to .which we look for the material prosperity of Australia our exports have actually decreased. We require more and more to realize that the value of our exports is a principal factor in our prosperity. During the last three or four years Europe and America have enjoyed a greater advance in prosperity than they experienced in, perhaps, the previous fifty years. As a result, the purchasing power of great masses of the people of those countries has been increased. This has caused an advance in the prices obtained for our principal exports, and Australia has thereby benefited. But in six months, dating from January last, the value of American securities dropped by ,£136,000,000. This is reflected in the set-back experienced in the price of many of our minerals. It is further to be noted that in different commercial industries depression is already beginning to be felt in Germany and some of the other Continental countries. Should that depression assume serious proportions, it must have its effect in reducing the value of our exports. I do not believe there is a country on earth possessing greater possibilities of future success than Australia, and it cannot, therefore, be said that I am disposed to take an unduly pessimistic view of the future, but I do say that the circumstances to which I have referred should be taken into careful consideration in estimating our immediate financial prospects. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<para class="block">There is another factor to be reckoned with, and that is the Tariff. The Treasurer estimates an increase of revenue as compared with that received last year of about £800,000, and that having met all his engagements he will have about ,£100,000 to play with. From all that we can learn-, this is a purely speculative estimate, and has no sound financial basis. If the party which dominates the Government are able to carry out their views in regard to the Tariff, the Treasurer's estimate of revenuemust be very considerably reduced indeed. Rumour has it that the members of the Labour Party propose to cast their votes and influence against al 1 duties on thenecessaries of life that may be in excess of revenue requirements. </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3902</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JYX</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FINDLEY, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Findley</name>
</talker>
<para>- That should suit thehonorable senator as a free-trader. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3902</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- I shall support the Labour Party in that course with all my power, but I repeat that if labour idealsare given effect in dealing with the Tariff, the result will be to seriously reduce theTreasurer's estimate of revenue. I understand that the members of the Labour Party propose to vote for absolute prohibition onall goods the. products of industries whichthey believe can be carried on in' Australia. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3902</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JYX</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">FINDLEY, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Findley</name>
</talker>
<para>- I am glad to hear that the honorable senator will assist theLabour Party to get more revenue iri a direct, and less in an indirect, manner: </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3902</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- I shall use my ownjudgment when the Tariff is before me as to what I ought to do to conserve the best interests of the Commonwealth. I do not commit myself to anything at this Stage,, but honorable senators may judge what my vote is likely to be from- their knowledgeof the political views I hold. Honorablesenators opposite take very great pride in the fact that the Commonwealth has not entered upon a loan policy. I am pleased that our revenue has been sufficient to enable us to meet all our engagements so far, but I am one of those who consider that it is absurd to suppose that we can develop this great continent without the assistance which we would derive from a loan policy. There are times when even if we had revenue sufficient to meet a particular expenditure, it would be advantageous to borrow the money required. I' should like to say a word or two with< reference to the proposed site for Common-' wealth offices in London. I realize that theCommonwealth should be represented in- </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<para class="block">London in a manner worthy of its status -and dignity. Having lived in London for many years, I would say that the site which has been suggested may be considered from two points of view. If the Commonwealth offices in London are to be established for the commercial and higher financial purposes for which provision must be made, the site suggested is in an absurd position. I go so far as to say that if this site is acquired with any idea that it will be suitable for the purposes to which I have referred, we shall, later on, find the Treasurer of the Commonwealth insisting that -we should have another office in the city.On the question as to whether the Strand site is the best that could be selected as an advertisement in the general interests of Australia, I should like to say that the Strand is not a thoroughfare for business or pleasure in the ordinary acceptation of the term. There can be no doubt that it is a great thoroughfare between the East and West of London, and during certain hours the traffic there is very great. I should not consider the Strand site as suitable as sites which might be selected in streets which, perhaps, other honorable senators might not think so much of as I do. The Strand is not a business thoroughfare like Oxford-street, Regentstreet, or Tottenham Court-road, in which streets the great masses of the visitors to London do their shopping. </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3903</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8T</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">TRENWITH, William</name>
<name role="display">Senator Trenwith</name>
</talker>
<para>- -More people pass through the Strand in a week than pass through Oxford-street in a month.. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3903</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- I lived there, and had premises there, and I know what I am talking about. In the morning and afternoon there is not a great number of people passing through the Strand, but from 6 o'clock in the evening until midnight there is always a busy throng of people there. Restaurants, oyster shops, and other places, provided for the gratification of the tastes of the public before the theatres open and after they close, are to be found in the Strand, and this accounts for the throng of people to be found there during the hours I have mentioned. View: ing the Strand site as affording an opportunity for advertising the Commonwealth, my only feeling in favour of it is that if that site be selected we shall have Canada as our near, neighbour. That has con.siderable weight with me, because I realize that the great advertising enterprise of Canada may have some little reflex influence upon the Commonwealth. With the aid of their push. and energy, no doubt a large number of people in England will be induced to view their products, and a few of them will thereby be led to visit the Commonwealth offices. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3903</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KOS</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">HENDERSON, George</name>
<name role="display">Senator Henderson</name>
</talker>
<para>- The honorable senator believes in borrowed influence. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3903</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- I cannot conceive of any site that could be acquired having the same frontage, and presenting the same advertising facilities as are offered by the site under consideration. At any rate, there would be great difficulty in obtaining suitable premises elsewhere. The price of land in the city of London is almost prohibitive. And perhaps after' all a site in the city would not be so suitable from a Commonwealth point of view. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3903</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KAH</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">WALKER, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator Walker</name>
</talker>
<para>- Some land in St. Paul's Churchyard was sold at ^1,000,000 per foot frontage. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3903</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- I feel very keenly the manner in which the vote has been brought before the Senate. To my mind, whilst the site question is a. very important one, there would be no serious loss from waiting. But there is a loss of dignity to the Senate- occasioned by the manner in which the matter has been brought before us. Whilst I look upon the recent mail contract as one of the most unbusinesslike pieces of work that we. have had to consider, 'this is even a worse exhibition of business incapacity. I am not going to blame either the Prime Minister, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Deakin,</inline> or <inline font-weight="bold">Sir William</inline> Lyne. I believe they did their best. But as representatives of the Commonwealth I cannot absolve them from .some amount of discredit for not having obtained details, so as to be able to place before Parliament the whole of the facts, regarding the obligations which we are asked to undertake. It is most unbusinesslike and unfair for the Treasurer to have brought the matter forward in such a way that it has had to be submitted to the Senate after definite steps to acquire the .property have been taken. I cannot conceive of any business man not knowing that the £1,000 would be forfeited at a particular time if the business were not concluded. I should very much like to know the truth arid the whole truth in regard to the negotiations which have taken place. I speak from a knowledge of what sometimes occurs in business relations. We know of the ways and means by which such negotiations are brought to a head. I cannot interpret the words uttered by the Treasurer in the other House in any other way; than according to their plain meaning, namely, that at a particular time a particular sum of money would have to be put up or a similar amount would be forfeited. That is the only interpretation of the Treasurer's language. Regarding the matter in the light of the explanation that has been given by the Vice-President of the Executive Council, the words of "the Treasurer in the other House offer an indignity to the Senate. Such conduct must have been due either to forgetfulness or negligence - <inline font-style="italic">1</inline> do not know which. Such a large business undertaking as this should not have been left to the very last day. The Senate should not have been placed in the . position of being forced to vote upon the matter without having the knowledge that we ought to have owing to the fact that there is a risk of the option falling through. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Millen</name>
</talker>
<para>- It is quite clear that both Ministers cannot be correct. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- That is. quite clear. I should like to know the whole truth. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator Best</name>
</talker>
<para>- The honorable . senator has heard a very absolute statement from me. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
</talker>
<para>- I must give the Minister the fullest credit for the frank manner in which he, at all events, has brought the matter before the Senate. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
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<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Millen</name>
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<para>- What he said was only another way of saying that <inline font-weight="bold">Sir William</inline> Lyne made an incorrect statement. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
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<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
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<in.gov>0</in.gov>
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<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator Best</name>
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<para>- He has been misinterpreted. </para>
</talk.start>
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<continue>
<talk.start>
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<page.no>3904</page.no>
<time.stamp />
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<in.gov>0</in.gov>
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<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator GRAY</name>
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<para>- The statement of the Vice-President of the Executive Council does not prevent me from placing my own interpretation upon what was said by <inline font-weight="bold">Sir William</inline> Lyne ; and I say plainly, and without any reservation, that the language used by him in the other House was not consistent with the explanation given in perfect good faith bv the Minister in the Senate. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>