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19080320_senate_3_44.xml
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19080320_senate_3_44.xml
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<hansard xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<session.header>
<date>1908-03-20</date>
<parliament.no>3</parliament.no>
<session.no>2</session.no>
<period.no>0</period.no>
<chamber>SENATE</chamber>
<page.no>9352</page.no>
<proof>0</proof>
</session.header>
<chamber.xscript>
<para class="block">Senate. </para>
<business.start>
<day.start>1908-03-20</day.start>
<para>The President took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers. </para>
</business.start>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>NEW GOVERNOR-GENERAL</title>
<page.no>9352</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate>Victoria</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Vice-Presi dent of the Executive Council</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>.- I desire, for the information of the Senate, to read a copy of a cablegram from the Secretary of State for the Colonies to His Excellency the Governor-General. It is as follows : - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>Please inform your Ministers that His Majesty has been graciously pleased to approve the appointment of -' the Earl of Dudley, G.C.V.O., as Governor-General of the Commonwealth in succession to Your Excellency. </para>
</quote>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate>NEW SOUTH WALES</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Executive Council, without notice, whether he is in a position to state when the new Governor-General will enter upon the duties of his office? . </para>
</talk.start>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9352</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- No; not yet. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>PETITION</title>
<page.no>9352</page.no>
<type>petition</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Colonel NEILD</inline>presented a petition from forty-two photographers of New South Wales, praying for a reduction of the proposed duty on sensitized photographic paper. </para>
<para>Petition received and read. </para>
<para class="block">VARDON <inline font-style="italic">v.</inline> O'LOGHLIN. </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>- On the businesspaper, sir, there is a motion which I have no doubt will be taken as formal, but in respect of which I desire, if I am not out of order, to ask a question now, because I take it that I could not do so when it was submitted as formal. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>10000</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
<name role="display">The PRESIDENT</name>
</talker>
<para>- The honorable senator may ask a question. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JXT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">NEILD, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Colonel NEILD</name>
</talker>
<para>- I desire to ask the Chairman of the Printing Committee a question with reference to one of the papers in respect of which no recommendation was made in their last report, and that is the judgment of the High Court in the case of Joseph Vardon <inline font-style="italic">versus</inline> James Vincent O'Loghlin, on a reference by the Senate. I have no doubt that there was a good reason, but I should like to know why no recommendation was made. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KOS</name.id>
<electorate>WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">HENDERSON, George</name>
<name role="display">Senator HENDERSON</name>
</talker>
<para>- No recommendation was made, because' the Printing Committee took the view that inasmuch as the judgment, which was incomplete, would, when completed, be published in the Law Reports, every honorable senator would have the opportunity to see it. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>PAPUA ORDINANCES</title>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K0F</name.id>
<electorate>WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">PEARCE, George</name>
<name role="display">Senator PEARCE</name>
</talker>
<para>- Some time ago, when a report from the Printing Committee was presented, the Vice-President of the Executive Council promised the Senate that he would try to arrange for the Papua Ordinances - which I understood him to say were printed - to be circulated amongst honorable senators. So far I have not yet received any copies, and I should like to know whether he has made an arrangement to have copies circulated as the Ordinances are printed? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- In accordance with my promise, I made the necessary representations to the Department of External Affairs, which I understand has undertaken to carry it out. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>COMMERCIAL CONGRESS, SYDNEY</title>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KRZ</name.id>
<electorate>WESTERN AUSTRALIA</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">LYNCH, Patrick</name>
<name role="display">Senator LYNCH</name>
</talker>
<para>asked the VicePresident of the Executive Council, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>Has the Government promised or paid £1,000 towards a Commercial Congress to be held in Sydney, as reported in the press of the 1 2th inst. ? </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>If so, what benefits are expected to accrue from such expenditure? </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>Has the grant been unconditionally made? </para>
</item>
<item label="4.">
<para>Will the Government be equally free to recognise the claim of any section of our citizens, other than the commercial element, at any future Congress that may be held in its interest ? </para>
</item>
</list>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JPC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role />
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">BEST, Robert</name>
<name role="display">Senator BEST</name>
</talker>
<para>- The answers to the honorable senator's questions are as follow : - </para>
</talk.start>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>The Government having, some time ago, joined in an invitation to the Associated Chambers of Commerce of the Empire, to hold their next meeting in Australia, have agreed to submit a proposal to Parliament to vote£1,000 towards the cost of enabling the press representatives, from Great Britain and other Dominions, who will accompany the visitors, to make themselves acquainted with the resources of the Commonwealth. </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>The many benefits that may fairly be expected from the wide publicity given to meetings of representative men from all parts of the Empire, assembled in order to discuss matters affecting production and trade, and from the knowledge of Australia acquired by them and the picked journalists coming with them. </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>The consent of Parliament must be obtained before any grant is made. </para>
</item>
<item label="4.">
<para>Yes, to any Congress of the same national character and of equal public importance. </para>
</item>
</list>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>PRINTING COMMITTEE</title>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Henderson)</inline> agreed to - </para>
<quote>
<para>That the report from the Printing Committee, presented to the Senate on the19th March, 1908, be adopted. </para>
</quote>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>CUSTOMS TARIFF BILL</title>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<type>bill</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>
<inline font-style="italic">In Committee</inline>(Consideration resumed from 19th March, <inline font-style="italic">vide</inline> page 9297) : </para>
<para>Schedule. </para>
<para>Division X. - Wood, Wicker, and Cane - </para>
<para>Item 299. Furniture -....... </para>
<para>And on and after5th December, 1907 - </para>
<para>Furniture n.e.i., including any article of wood, or partly of wood, wholly or partly made up or finished and used in any building or premises, including hospitals; also show figures of all kinds, ad val. (General Tariff), 35 per cent. ; (United Kingdom), 25 per cent. </para>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9353</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister of Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>. - In accordance with the notice I gave, I move - </para>
</talk.start>
<quote>
<para>That the House of Representatives be requested to make the duty on item 299 (imports from the United Kingdom), ad val. 30 per cent. </para>
</quote>
<para class="block">The object of the request is to bring the preferential duty on this item into harmony with the duty on item 306. At the present time there is a little difficulty in distinguishing between furniture and articles the manufacture of wood, which, under item 306, are dutiable at 35 and 30 per cent. </para>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KSH</name.id>
<electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MACFARLANE, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator MACFARLANE</name>
</talker>
<para>. - Has the Committee passed the duty in the first column? </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>10000</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">CHAIRMAN, The</name>
<name role="display">The CHAIRMAN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Yes. I asked whether there was any request in respect to the duty in the first column, but no honorable senator responded, and so I declared that duty to be passed, whereupon the Minister moved a request to make the duty in the second column 30 per cent. </para>
</talk.start>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KSH</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MACFARLANE, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator MACFARLANE</name>
</talker>
<para>- I only wish to say that in my opinion the duty is far too high. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JVC</name.id>
<electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DOBSON, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Senator DOBSON</name>
</talker>
<para>. - No reason has been given by the Minister or any one else for increasing the rate of duty and thereby lessening, the preference to Great Britain. It should be remembered that we have been cutting down the preferences to the Mother Country as we have been going along. I think that the Minister will find that the preferences are less now than they were when the Committee entered upon its work. I was in hopes that we should enlarge the policy of preference. I understand that we are now considering the -duty in the preference column. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
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<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">TRENWITH, William</name>
<name role="display">Senator Trenwith</name>
</talker>
<para>- No; the other is the preference column. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JVC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DOBSON, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Senator DOBSON</name>
</talker>
<para>- My honorable friend evidently intends to support the request to increase the duty in order to give more and more protection, and so decrease the preference and any chance we have of reciprocal trade with the Mother Country, and eventually, I hope, with the Empire. It ought to be borne in mind that the natural protection on furniture - in freight and charges - is enormous. I understand that cheap shoddy furniture does not come from Great Britain, because the expenses are so great that it would not pay to export it; but from Continental countries, and from Japan. ' We all know that' many magnificent articles of furniture of various descriptions come from the Mother Country. Many of us have been accustomed to use them, and I . hope that' we shall use more of the locally-made articles. I do not consider that this enormous duty on British-made furniture ought to be approved. I submit that the Minister of Home Affairs ought to be true to the policy of the Prime Minister, and that we should ' make this preference a reality and not a mockery. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>. - It is true that the Minister gave notice of his intention to move a request in connexion with this item, but surely the Committee is entitled .to some reason, not only for the proposal to increase the duty, but for the action of the Government in departing from the duty proposed elsewhere by the Treasurer, and assented to after a very long discussion. T ask honorable senators to consider whether thetime has not gone by when the mere launching of a proposal in this Chamber should be considered sufficient to secure its acceptance. Apart from merely formal motions every proposal submitted here should be supported by reasons. We should not be asked to increase this duty from 25 to 30 per cent, merely because the Minister thinks it necessary and without any justification for it being stated. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister of Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>. - I regret exceedingly that <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen</inline> should have been called away just before I moved the request, and that at the time <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Dobson</inline> should evidently have been engaged upon something else. I pointed out' that the reason for proposing that the duty on imports from the United Kingdom under this item should be 30 per cent.,- is-, that later on in the Tariff under section 306, "Wood, all materials made of, n.e.i., whether partly or wholly finished," duties of 35 per cent, under the general Tariff, and 30 ' per cent, on imports from, the United Kingdom are imposed, and' that in some instances it has been found difficult to say whether imports should comeunder the latter item or be admitted asarticles of furniture. It will be agreed that it is extremely desirable that the ratesof duty in respect of both these items; should be the same. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JVC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DOBSON, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Senator Dobson</name>
</talker>
<para>- But the Government, always adopt the higher duty. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9354</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
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<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>- It is in accordance with the universal practice of the Customs Department in cases of doubt as to the proper description .of imports, to levy the higher duty. Honorable senatorswill see that if there were any dispute with importers as to whether articles came under item 306 or the item now under discussion, the importers would be very much- dissatisfied if the decision of the' Department was that they came under item 306,. and were therefore liable to a higher duty. A considerable impetus has been given to the furniture trade since theintroduction of this Tariff in another place, but there is still a very considerable importation of furniture from the United! </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<para class="block">Kingdom, and a very much, larger importation in the aggregate from other countries. I do not think that honorable senators cam disagree with me that it is desirable that articles coming under both of the items to which I have referred, should be made dutiable at the same rate. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN</inline>(New South Wales) £11.20]. - I have not heard a single word from the Minister that explains the extraordinary attitude of the Government in connexion with this proposal. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating</inline> proposes to increase a duty agreed to in another place without a division. This is another of those cases in which it would appear that Ministers seek to chloroform honorable senators into doing something of which they shall not be conscious. I have here a copy of the notice issued by the Minister in connexion with this item, and it states .that it is the intention of the Minister to propose that the duty under the general Tariff shall be 30 per cent. That' is to say, honorable senators were informed that it was the intention of the Government to submit a request for a reduction of the duty under the general Tariff ; and now the Minister comes forward and proposes an increase of the duty on imports from the United Kingdom. I ask whether that is fair t'o honorable senators^ What was the purpose of the notice? Was it to entirely mislead the Committee ? </para>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Keating</name>
</talker>
<para>- No, it was not. As a matter of fact my attention was not drawn to the error in the notice' until <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Macfarlane</inline> pointed it out just now. I do not know whether the error is due to the printer or the clerks, but I do know that the proposal I intended to give notice of was to make the duty 30 per cent, on "imports from the United .Kingdom, </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Because of the character of the notice with which honorable senators were supplied, I did not 1)other to look into the details of the" item. It seemed to me that Ministers would not be disposed to aid any effort to increase the duties. In the circumstances the proposal which has been submitted has found me all unprepared. The least the Minister can do is to agree to the postponement of the item. I cannot believe that the Committee will permit Ministers to play fast and loose in this way. Practically all that the honorable senator has said is this, - " My honorable- colleague elsewhere agreed to a certain duty which appears in the schedule. I issued a notice to honorable senators the effect of which must have been to mislead them, but in spite of that I ask you now to agree to increase the duty on imports from the United Kingdom from 25 per cent, to 30 per cent." If the Minister had been able to show that his colleague was under some misapprehension in dealing with the matter elsewhere, or that the industry would be imperilled if the duty were not made higher than 25 per cent., there would have been some justification for the proposal. The whole of the facts connected with the industry go to show that it is established on fairly sound lines. In view of the fact that furniture enters into the requirements of every household in the country, we should hesitate before we arbitrarily impose an additional 5 per cent, of duty on articles included in this item, and especially under the circumstances to which I have referred. I cannot believe that <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating</inline> will press his request at this stage in view of the mistake which has been made. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
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<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Keating</name>
</talker>
<para>- I have here a carbon copy of the notice as it was sent to the printer. I find that the mistake is due to a printer's error. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>- It does not matter whose error if is. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8T</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">TRENWITH, William</name>
<name role="display">Senator Trenwith</name>
</talker>
<para>- Who is hurt by it ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>- I am, and I need speak for no one else. Assuming from the notice issued by the Minister that it was proposed to reduce the duty under the general Tariff, I have failed to make myself acquainted with the facts connected with the industry, as I should .certainly have done if I had known that the proposal was to increase the duty on imports from the United Kingdom. In the circumstances, to tolerate such a proposal as is now made " would be to sanction and invite the adoption of any and every misleading device. Of course, I accept the assurance of the Minister of Home Affairs that in this case the difficulty is due to an error, but that does not affect the result as far as the Committee is concerned. We came here believing that the Minister intended to propose a reduction of duty, and that at tha worst the Tariff as it stands would be adhered to. Instead of that, we find the honorable senator, without saying a word about the industry, proposing an increase of the duty on imports from the United Kingdom, merely in order to consult the convenience of the Customs Department. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9355</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KSH</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MACFARLANE, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator Macfarlane</name>
</talker>
<para>- Because there is a higher duty on an item further on. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator MILLEN</name>
</talker>
<para>- Yes. Let me summarize the facts again. The duty of 25 per cent, on imports from the United Kingdom was proposed by the Government and accepted without ' demur elsewhere. Following that we had this misleading notice issued by the Minister, which necessarily disarmed honorable senators on this side, and following that again, the Minister of Home Affairs comes forward to-day and proposes an increase of the duty without any reason or justification. In view of the facts the least the Government could have done was to have looked into the condition of the industry to see whether it disclosed anything that would justify the- increased duty now proposed. The one reason put forward by the Minister for Home Affairs is. that it will simplify Customs administration. Surely there are ways in which that might be done other than by increasing a duty proposed by his own colleague and agreed to in another place. I hope that the Minister will consent to postpone the item, and that if he does not do so the Committee will mark its appreciation of the action which has been taken by rejecting the proposal. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
<party>Protectionist</party>
<role>Minister of Home Affairs</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>. - I regret exceedingly the error which occurred in the notice referred to. I can only say that when my attention was called to it a' few minutes ago, I called upon an officer to produce the carbon copy of the1 notice sent to the printer. It does not warrant the printing of the notice in the form in which it was circulated. It is a 'notice of the intention of the Government to request to alter the duty on imports from the United Kingdom to 30 per cent. That being the case, I hope that <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen</inline> does not wish to associate the members of the Government with any attempt to blindfold honorable senators. I should like to point out that there has been a great and growing increase in the importations of furniture. I give the total value of the importations for four years commencing with 1903. In 1963 it was £I 43,129; in T904-7 £i79>37o; i» 1905, £196,927; and in 1906, £212,526. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KUL</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
<name role="display">Senator Millen</name>
</talker>
<para>- Has the honorable senator . the figures with respect to local production ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>- I do not think I have figures giving the value of the furniture locally manufactured, but I can give the number of hands employed in the in dustry and the approximate value of the land, buildings, and machinery during the years referred to. The average number of hands" employed in the industry during 1903 was 5,297; in 1904, 5,214; in 1905, 5,422; and in 1906, - 5,890. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JVC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">DOBSON, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Senator Dobson</name>
</talker>
<para>- Those figures show a larger increase than -the increase in imports. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>- The figures should show an increase, but while there has been a small increase in the number of hands. employed from 5,297 in 1903 to 5,890 in 1906, there was a drop in the number employed in the interval. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KQ4</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCCOLL, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator McColl</name>
</talker>
<para>- Do' those figures include Chinese? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>- I cannot say. The approximate value of plant and buildings was in 1903 .£90,279 ; in 1904, £81,687; in 1905, £83,824; and in 1906, £86,448. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>JVC</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
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<name role="metadata">DOBSON, Henry</name>
<name role="display">Senator Dobson</name>
</talker>
<para>- It is a magnificent industry, . and yet honorable senators are not content. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
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<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
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<para>- I am pointing out to the honorable senator that' whereas in 1903 the approximate value -of plant and buildings was- £90,279, in 1906 it had dropped to £86,448. The number of factories in operation was 453. in i9°3> 454 in 1904, 441 in 1905, and in 1906 418. That does .not look as though the industry has been upon the up-grade. To say the very best of it, it has -been stationary. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KMT</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">GRAY, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator Gray</name>
</talker>
<para>- With an increase of 600 hands ? </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9356</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KPE</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">KEATING, John</name>
<name role="display">Senator KEATING</name>
</talker>
<para>- And a drop in the value of plant and machinery employed, in the value of land and buildings, and in the number of factories in operation, while imports have gone up steadily in four years, from £143,000 to £212,000 in value. Those are facts which honorable senators will,. I am sure, appreciate at their proper value. They will realize that it is necessary to afford adequate p'rotection to this most desirable industry. I hope that honorable senators will not be influenced, as <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Dobson</inline> seems- to be, by the fact that an error has occurred in the notice of motion,- for which neither the officers nor the members of the Ministry are responsible, but will be disposed to make the duty 30 per cent, in the second column, and so bring the rates in respect of furniture into harmony with those in regard to manufactures of wood generally. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9357</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KTF</name.id>
<electorate>South Australia</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCGREGOR, Gregor</name>
<name role="display">Senator McGREGOR</name>
</talker>
<para>. - No one can fairly attach to what has been clearly shown to be a printer's error, the importance that <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen</inline> seems to attach to it. lt is peculiar that when the duty in the first column came before the Committee, although the notice of request had been circulated in that erroneous form, no one made any demur, and the duty was passed. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9357</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KSH</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MACFARLANE, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator Macfarlane</name>
</talker>
<para>- I did. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9357</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KTF</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCGREGOR, Gregor</name>
<name role="display">Senator McGREGOR</name>
</talker>
<para>- The honorable senator rose after the duty had been passed. He must have been so engrossed in the peculiarities of the notice that he failed to rise at the right time. If there was so great an eagerness to reduce the duty in the first column, every member of the Opposition who desired to see that reduced duty carried should have been ready to jump up and move it when the Minister did not, but they sat still until the thing was done. The Minister now desires to remove an anomaly, which will be created if we agree to -a 25 per cent, duty in the second column, on this item, unless something is done in regard to item 306. I have had the figures read out by the Minister, with regard to the great increase in the value of importations, in mind for a long time, and I am convinced that it is our duty, in the interests of the furniture trade of Australia, to increase rather than diminish the protection given. The only alternative to increasing the duty in the second column from 25 to 30 per cent, is to reduce the corresponding duty on item 306 from 30 to 25 per cent. In view of the figures that have been placed before the Committee, I ask honorable senators who are protectionists whether they will still further increase the possibilities of importation by refusing! to raise this duty, or take the course which the Minister now advocates. I leave the position at that. </para>
</talk.start>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9357</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KSH</name.id>
<electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MACFARLANE, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator MACFARLANE</name>
</talker>
<para>. - I hope the Minister will have the good sense not to press the request. I, in common with several other honorable senators, was misled by the notice issued in his name. </para>
</talk.start>
<interjection>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9357</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>K8T</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">TRENWITH, William</name>
<name role="display">Senator Trenwith</name>
</talker>
<para>- The honorable senator made no manifestation that he was misled, because when he was on his feet he only said that the duty was far too high. </para>
</talk.start>
</interjection>
<continue>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>9357</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KSH</name.id>
<electorate />
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MACFARLANE, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator MACFARLANE</name>
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<para>- I admit that I was inattentive, but I thought the Minister had already moved the request. Now he does not move that of which he gave notice, but another, because there is an anomaly further on. The proper . place to remedy that anomaly is in item 306. Another good reason why the Minister should not press the request is to be found in the recommendations of the Tariff Commission. The recommendation of the protectionist section as summarized in the papers before us is " Crumb trays, and Brushes, 25 per cent, j Balance, 30 per cent." The free-trade section recommend 20 .per cent. Surely the Minister could accept 25 per cent, as the duty against Great Britain, having secured 35 per cent, against the rest of the world. Thirty-five per cent, is not an ordinary duty, but is enormously high on first cost. A great increase of exports is a great help to manufacturers in this country. As some, if not all, of us have been misled by the mistake which -was made by the Government they should not press the request. </para>
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<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator TRENWITH</inline>(Victoria) [11.37J. - The duty, if it accomplishes the object which it is designed to accomplish, will lead to the expenditure of at least another £150,000 a year in wages in Australia. Even <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Dobson</inline> will admit, that that is an important consideration. </para>
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<para>- The duty proposed will not do it. </para>
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<para>- I think it will. If it will not, that is a reason why we should make it higher. The honorable senator cannot say that there is anything in furniture, or other wood-work, that cannot be done in Australia as well as anywhere else in the world. </para>
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<para>- Under a lower duty the New South Wales factories got on better than did the Victorian. </para>
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<para>- 'I am delighted to know that the New South Wales factories have got on well, but the figures show that we are importing over ^200,000 worth of furniture, the major portion of the cost of production of which is labour. A duty that would preclude that importation, and lead to the production. locally of duplicates of it, should cause at least another ;£i 50,000 per annum to be expended in wages in the Commonwealth. </para>
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