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19140507_senate_5_73.xml
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19140507_senate_5_73.xml
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<hansard xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
<session.header>
<date>1914-05-07</date>
<parliament.no>5</parliament.no>
<session.no>2</session.no>
<period.no>0</period.no>
<chamber>SENATE</chamber>
<page.no>665</page.no>
<proof>0</proof>
</session.header>
<chamber.xscript>
<para class="block">Senate. </para>
<para class="italic">
<inline font-style="italic">Thursday, 7 May</inline>
</para>
<para>The President took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers. </para>
<para>RIFLE AMMUNITION. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator PEARCE.</inline>- I desire to ask the Minister of Defence the following questions : - </para>
<para>1. Has the Minister bad brought under his notice complaints made by the South Australian and Western AustralianRifle Associations as to the quality of the ammunition being issued toRifle Associations? </para>
<para>2. Has any inquiry been made into the matter, and, if so, with what result? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.-</inline>The honorable senator was good enough toadvise me of his intention to ask these questions, and, therefore, I am able to furnish him with the following answer : - </para>
<para>Complaints relative to ammunition supplied for Rifle Association Meetings have been received, off and on, for years. The more recent complaint referred to by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Pearce</inline> has been brought under my notice, and I have given instructions for a committee of export officers to look into the whole question, make experiments, and report. On receipt of such report I shall be glad to let Parliamentknow the result. </para>
<para class="block">HORSE ALLOWANCE. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McGREG</inline>OR. - The Minister of Defence will recollect that I asked him a question regarding horse allowance. Will he lay on the table the correspondence in connexion with the stoppage of the allowance to Garrison Sergt.-Major Marshall, Warrant Officers Deniston and Reid, and Staff Sergt. Martin in South Australia? I might add that I have a memorandum which will enable the Minister to trace the incident and give a reply. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- I shall be obliged for the memorandum to which the honorable senator has referred. In view of his prior question, I have prepared this answer - </para>
<para>This matter is now under consideration by the Military Board, to whom the Minister has referred it. </para>
<para>I shall have no objection to make the papers available to the honorable senator, but may I suggest that he should be content to see them in the Library rather than make them papers of the Senate? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McGregor.</inline>- I am agreeable to that. </para>
<para>INSURANCE OFFICE OF AUSTRALIA. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator RAE.</inline>- I desire to ask the Leader of the Government here whether his attention has been called to a Sydney telegram in the Melbourne <inline font-style="italic">Age</inline> of this morning headed "Insurance Office of Australia; An Uproarious Meeting; Charges against Directors"? I do not propose to read the whole of the telegram, but to refer to a portion of it, and to ask a question thereon. One of the directors, <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. McLaughlin,</inline> refused to withdraw a statement he had made, and went on to say - </para>
<para>He condemned the management of the previous Board for paying six directors in Melbourne £450 a year between them. A manager in Melbourne was paid £750 per annum. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Watt</inline> (Premier of Victoria) was on the Melbourne Board, but fie was not even a shareholder, and for three years he drew £225. The money, he held,should be refunded. If such a thing was allowed, why not allow all the Premiers in the States on the Board? </para>
<para class="block">Would the Minister or the Government favour such an amendment of the law relating to insurance companies as would prevent persons in high positions from being mere guinea-pig directors in the manner indicated by this report ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- As the matter seems to involve some legal questions, I shall be obliged if the honorable senator will furnish me with an opportunity to place the report in the hands of my colleague the Attorney-General. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Rae.</inline>- I will be most pleased to do so. </para>
<para class="block">DISMISSAL OF WORKMEN. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator BLAKEY.</inline>- Referring to the remarks I made on the motion for adjournment yesterday, can the Minister representing the Postmaster-General give the Senate any indication as to whether it is the intention of the Government to dismiss any men from the undergrounding of the telephone wires in Melbourne and suburbs? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- There have been two gangs dismissed because the work on which they were engaged is finished. I have received the following communication on the subject: - </para>
<para>Referring to your communication of this morning regarding the dismissal of men employed on undergrounding wires, I beg to inform you that two gangs containing forty-two men were reoently dispensed with, because there was no further work for them. </para>
<para>2. The Postmaster-General, on Tuesday last, the 5th instant, approved of starting fresh undergrounding works at Canterbury, which prevented similar action having to be taken with regard to some other gangs. </para>
<para class="block">I am informed that this work at Canterbury will not find employment for the two gangs of men referred to, but will prevent others from being dispensed with at the present time. </para>
<para>TASMANIAN MAIL CONTRACT. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator O'KEEFE.-</inline>Can the Minister representing the Postmaster-General inform the Senate whether the proposed contract between the Comm on wealth and the Union Steam-ship Company, or the Shipping Combine, for the carriage of mails to Tasmania has been signed, and is ready to lay on the table? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- I have not the information at present, but will endeavour to get it for the honorable senator as soon as I can. </para>
<para>COMPULSORY TRAINING. </para>
<para>Prosecutions : Magistrates' Decisions : Exemptions : Preference of Employment - Promotions . </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McDOUGALL.-</inline>I propose to read a report of the prosecution of more cadets in Sydney, and then to ask a question. </para>
<para>One boy gave an excuse that he was in the accident that occurred two years ago, when a motor car ran into a company of cadets. He said he was eight weeks ill, and had twelve months' leave of absence from drill, and produced a medical certificate to show that he still could not attend drills. </para>
<para>The magistrate said the certificate was not worth the paper it was written on. It was obtained for the purpose of the case. </para>
<para>The area officer said the Medical Board had examined the cadet, and certified him to be fit for drill. </para>
<para>The cadet was ordered to serve fifteen days at Middle Head detention camp. </para>
<para class="block">Can the Minister of Defence inform the Senate whether the case againstthe motor driverhas yet been settled, and, if so, whether theboys have received any compensation ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- I am unable to answer the questions just now, but I will endeavour to obtain the information for the honorable senator before the adjournmentof the Senate. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator KEATING.</inline>- Arising out of the question and the reply, I wish to ask the Minister of Defence whether, if steps have not already been taken, they will be taken to co-ordinate the decisions of the magistrates throughout Australia with regard to allegations against individuals for non-compliance with the compulsory drill system. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen.</inline>- That is to secure greater uniformity? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator KEATING.</inline>- Yes. I quite understand the position in which the Minister is placed, but what I want to ask is, whether the Government will take steps through the proper authorities in the several States to communicate to the magistrates what are the ground principles upon which action is to be taken and decisions given. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- The honorable senator has already indicated that he quite understands the position in which both the Department and magistrates are placed. There is the law, and it is for the magistrates to interpret it as they think fit, but I should like to add that I have been struck by what would appear to be a want of uniformity in some individual cases, and have directed one officer who is most closely in touch with these prosecutions to get together some information, on which either it may be necessary to ask Parliament to amend the Act, or a communication from the Department to the magistrates may be found sufficient. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator BLAKEY.</inline>- Knowing the objection that the Government has to preference of any kind, I wish to ask the Minister of Defence if the fact has been brought under his notice, as mentioned in another place, that advertisements are now appearing in the columns of the daily press calling for applications for positions in private employment, and specifically stating that those who are exempt from military service will be preferred. Will the Minister endeavour to introduce an amendment of the law to punish those people who are trying to put undue hardships upon the lads who are now complying with the compulsory training provisions as passed by this Parliament? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- I have not seen the advertisement, and would ask the honorable senator to excuse me from answering the question until I have an opportunity of doing so. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator RAE.</inline>- Has the attention of the Minister of Defence been called to an allegation made in a Sydney newspaper to the effect that direct favoritism is shown, through which the sons of wealthy or influential persons are altogether exempted from compulsory service. I should also like to ask the Minister if he is aware that in the Sydney Grammar School, one of the institutions where cadets are allowed to drill separately from the rest of the community, an intimation was made to the pupils nearly twelve months ago that they could enter for an examination for positions as noncommissioned officers, and that the results have never yet been notified, although some who did not undergo examination at all have been promoted to these positions? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- It is hardly necessary for me to make inquiries regarding the first part of the honorable senator's question, because I can answer it now. If the honorable senator refers to a statement in the <inline font-style="italic">Sunday Times,</inline> I did see it, and the reason why I have not publicly contradicted it is that life is too short for a Minister in charge of the Defence Department to attempt to answer all the silly tarradiddles with which enterprising reporters crowd the columns of their papers. In this case, which was specifically brought under my notice, I wish first to give an absolute denial to the suggestion that any influence, social, political, or otherwise, has ever moved me in any exemptions which have been granted. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Rae.</inline>- But what about your subordinates ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- No exemption is granted unless it comes through the Minister, and therefore, whatever is done, the Minister has to take the responsibility, acting of course in the light of the reports which he necessarily obtains from his officers. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Rae.</inline>- Is it a fact that they must come through you ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- Undoubtedly. As a matter of fact, I stand here as a lawbreaker, having granted exemptions for which no provision is made in the Act. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating.</inline>- You have taken the responsibility. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- I have, and sooner or later Parliament will be asked, perhaps not to legalize what has been done, but to make provision for legally doing it in the future. There is no provision in our Act for exemptions in certain cases where I have granted them . One of those cases is where a lad would have his means of livelihood interfered with if called upon to comply with the terms of the Act. In such cases I have granted an exemption from the drill or camp which the boy would otherwise have to attend. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Pearce.</inline>- That can be done under the Act. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- But it also means that Parliament will have to say whether a boy is to be deprived of his livelihood, or whether it will grant exemptions for this specific purpose. In this particular matter, the boy, who was quite a junior, called himself a commercial traveller, and was called on to travel along one of the northern railway lines in New South Wales at the time when he was required to undertake his camp drill. I gave him an exemption, although I had no power under the Act to do so. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator PEARCE</inline>- That has been done repeatedly where they can attend a casual camp at another period of the year. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- I can only say that I am advised that the Minister has no power to grant exemptions other than those specially laid down in the Act. There are two sections which I think Parliament will sooner or later have to> consider with a view to amendment. </para>
<para>The PRESIDENT. - The honorable senator is now going into a statement of the- whole question of compulsory training. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- In the circumstances perhaps I have said sufficient. I have no knowledge of the examination referred to by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Rae,</inline> but will endeavour to obtain the information. </para>
<para>ARBITRATION (PUBLIC SERVICE) ACT. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator RUSSELL.-</inline>On 17th December last I addressed to <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Clemons</inline> a question regarding the administration of the Arbitration (Public Service) Act, and the honorable senator promised that the Government would consider the matter. The Act has been applied by the Government equally to members of the claimant association and to* non-members. Seeing that another Act is now about to come into operation, havethe Government yet decided whether they will call on non-members of the association to pay their proportion of the costs,, or undertake to meet the costs of the casethemselves? I should like to know the Government policy on this matter. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- I have no recollection of the question, but if the honorable senator will allow me an opportunity of looking the matter up, I shall be prepared to give him an answer to-morrow. </para>
<para class="block">DEFENCE BILL. </para>
<para>Bill presented by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen,</inline> and read a first time. </para>
<para>PROSECUTIONS UNDER ELECTORAL ACT. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator NEWLAND.-</inline>I should like toknow from the Vice-President of the Executive Council whether he has any information to give in reply to a question I asked regarding excessive fines imposed upon certain persons in South Australia for breaches of the Electoral Act? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- I have had thematter referred to . looked into. It has been before the Attorney-General, and! is now remitted to the magistrates concerned to ask whether they would advise a reduction of the fines. </para>
<para class="block">LIBRARY COMMITTEE. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN</inline>(New South Wales - Minister of Defence) [3.21]. - I move - </para>
<para>That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent the Library Committee of the Senate from sitting in conjunction with the Library Committee of the House of Representatives during the sittings of the Senate. </para>
<para class="block">This motion is submitted at the instance of the Library Committee to meet the convenience of the Committee, and of the corresponding Committee of the House of Representatives. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator KEATING</inline>(Tasmania) [3.22]. - Before the question is put, I would ask the Minister of Defence to amend it to cover meetings of any sub-committee of the Library Committee? There are two sub-committees of the Library Committee, one concerned with the collection of books for the Library, and the other with the collection of Australian records. I think, that it is necessary that the motion should cover meetings of subcommittees. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Lt. -Colonel Sir ALBERT</inline>GOULD (New South Wales) [3.23].- I point out to the honorable senator that the Senate does not know any subcommittee of a Committee it has appointed. If we give the Library Committee power to sit during sittings of the Senate, that will embrace any sub-committee which is a portion of that Committee. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating.</inline>- It is questionable whether any Committee has power to authorize the non-attendance of a member in Parliament. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Lt. -Colonel Sir ALBERT</inline>GOULD. - This would not affect the position of a member of a Committee so far as the loss of a seat through nonattendance in Parliament is concerned. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating.</inline>- It is not a question of a member losing his seat. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Lt.-Colonel Sir ALBERT</inline>GOULD. - A sub-committee of the Library Committee, being a portion of that Committee, will, under the motion submitted, have power to sit during the sittings of the Senate. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating.</inline>- It would be better to make the matter abundantly certain. </para>
<para>Question resolved in the affirmative. </para>
<para class="block">DEFENCE DEPARTMENT. </para>
<para>Gunnery School, South Head: Allowances to Area Officers : Oats supplied for Defence Force: Woods used for Rifle Stocks. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN</inline>(New South Wales - Minister of Defence) [3.25]. - Some questions were submitted to me in respect to which I promised to obtain information to meet the convenience of honorable senators without asking them to formally repeat the questions. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McDougall</inline> asked a question with regard to the Gunnery School at South Head. I obtained a report on the subject, which was entirely re-assuring, but not quite complete, and I have sent it back to the State Commandant that it might be supplemented. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Russell</inline> asked a question as to additional allowances to Area Officers. In replying to the honorable senator, I safeguarded myself by saying that I was speaking from memory in saying that provision was made for the payment of the allowances in question. I find that I was not quite correct, and that, although approval was given to the making of the additional payments, the basis on which they were to be made is still under consideration. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator McDougall</inline> asked whether foreign oats were being supplied to the Defence Force, and the answer to his question is that, while the horses were fed on Algerian oats, the Algerian oats were Australian grown. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Gardiner</inline> made an inquiry as to the woods utilized at Lithgow for the stocks of rifles. I understand that quite a number of woods have been tested with satisfactory results in a limited number of cases. I am obtaining a full report on the whole matter, and, I hope, will be able to place it before the Senate shortly, with samples of rifles fitted with the woods which most appealed to the manager of the factory. </para>
<para class="block">PAPERS. </para>
<para>The following papers were presented : - </para>
<para>Conciliation and Arbitration, &c. - Report on proceedings under Conciliation and Arbitration Act 1904-1911, from 15th December, 1904, to 31st December, 1912; under Excise Tariff Act 1906, during the time the Act was in operation; and under the Arbitration (Public Service) Act 1911, up to 31st December, 1912- A. M. Stewart, Industrial Registrar. </para>
<para>Contract Immigrants Act 1905. - Return for 1913, respecting Contract Immigrants admitted or refused admission into the Commonwealth, &c. </para>
<para>Defence Act 1903-1912.- </para>
<para>Military Forces - Financial and Allowance Regulations, amended, &c. - </para>
<para>Statutory Rules 1914, Nos. 33, 34, 35, 36, 37. </para>
<para class="block">Immigration Act 1901-1912.- Return for 1913 showing - (a) Persons refused admission to the Commonwealth; (b) Persons who passed the dictation test; (c) Persons admitted without being asked to pass the dictation test; (d) Departures of coloured porsons from the Commonwealth. </para>
<para class="block">Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway. - </para>
<para class="block">Clearing and Earthworks at Kalgoorlie end - Letters from Acting Supervising Engineer, Kalgoorlie, to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Wm.</inline> Morris, regarding prices and terms. </para>
<para class="block">Papers re Letting of Contract to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Teesdale</inline> Smith. </para>
<para class="block">Lands Acquisition Act 1906.- Land acquired under, at - </para>
<para class="block">Bayswater, Western Australia - For Defence purposes. </para>
<para class="block">Boorooma and Gibraltar. Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes. </para>
<para class="block">Brisbane, Queensland - For Defence purposes. </para>
<para>Collingwood, Victoria- For Postal purposes. </para>
<para>Ginninderra, Federal Territory (167 ac. 8 per.) - For Federal Capital purposes. </para>
<para>Ginninderra, Federal Territory (1 ac.) - For Federal Capital purposes. </para>
<para>Granville, New South Wales - For Defence purposes. </para>
<para>Hawthorn, Victoria- For Defence purposes. </para>
<para>Malvern, Victoria - For Defence purposes. </para>
<para>Vaucluse, New South Wales (35½ per.)For Postal purposes. </para>
<para>Vaucluse, New South Wales (20¾ per.)For Postal purposes. </para>
<para>Weetangera and Canberra, Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes. </para>
<para>Woodforde, near Magill, South Australia - For Defence purposes. </para>
<para>Military College: "General Knowledge" Paper at Entrance Examination in October, 1913, &c. </para>
<para>Port Augusta to Oodnadatta Railway - Agreement between the Commonwealth and the State of South Australia for working of. </para>
<para>Public Service Act 1903-1911.- </para>
<para>Appointments, Promotions, &c. - </para>
<para>Department of Home Affairs. - A. B. Smith - Promotion to new . position nf Clerk, 4th Class, Tasmania. </para>
<para>Department of Trade and Customs - </para>
<para>H. G. Brain - Promotion as Clerk, 4th Class. Inter-State Commission. </para>
<para>J. C. Hamilton - Promotion as Boarding Inspector, 2nd Class, Shipping Branch, New South Wales. </para>
<para>J. Henderson - Appointment to new position of Draughtsman, Class E, Professional Division, Lighthouse Branch, Central Staff. </para>
<para>A. E. Munyard - Promotion as Boarding Inspector, 3rd Class, Shipping Branch, Queensland. </para>
<para>H. M. Robinson - Promotion as Inspec tor andSub-Collector, 1st Class, Queensland. </para>
<para>C. Stewart - Appointment as Works Superintendent, Class D, Professional Division, Lighthouse Branch, Central Staff. </para>
<para>Postmaster-General's Department. - </para>
<para>J. Crennan - Promotion as Postmaster, 3rd Class, Gunnedah, New South Wales. </para>
<para>W. G. C. L. Dix - Promotion as Inspector, 3rd Class, South Australia. </para>
<para>P. F. Green - Promotion as Clerk, 4th Class, Electrical Engineer's Branch, Lismore, New South Wales. </para>
<para>W. H. C. Hughes - Promotion as Clerk, 4th Class, Stores Branch, New South Wales. </para>
<para>W. C. D. McBurney and H. J. T. Giles - Appointment as Draughtsmen, Class F, Professional Division, Electrical Engineer's Branch, Sydney. </para>
<para>E. P. Ramsay - Promotion ns Assistant Superintendent, 2nd Class, Mail Branch, Sydney. </para>
<para>C. F. Robinson -Promotion as Inspector, 3rd Class, Inspection Branch, Queensland. </para>
<para>P. E. Row - Promotion as Postmaster, 3rd Class, Cobar, New South Wales. </para>
<para>J. R. Sinclair - Promotion as Postmaster, 2nd Class, Geraldton, Western Australia. </para>
<para>Tasmanian Mail Service : Agreement between the Postmaster-General and the Union Steam-ship Company of New Zealand Limited, and Huddart Parker Limited, for conveyance of mails between Melbourne and Launceston, and Melbourne and Burnie. </para>
<para>Telegraphs and Telephones Special Works Account Act 1911. - Transfers of amounts approved by the Governor-General in Council dated 7th April, 1914. </para>
<para class="block">TELEPHONE UNDERGROUNDING. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator HENDERSON</inline>(for <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Needham)</inline> asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>1. Is it the intention of the Government to complete the undergrounding of the telephone wires in and around the metropolitan area, Perth and Fremantle? </para>
<para>2. Why was the work in connexion with the Fitzgerald-street section stopped f </para>
<para>3. When will the work be resumed? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>1. Yes. </para>
<para>2. A small portion of this work was abandoned during the winter months, when, owing to the presence of water, completion of the work might have prejudiced the stability of adjacent structures. </para>
<para>3. The work was resumed when the waterlevel had fallen to a minimum, and is now completed. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator NEWLAND.</inline>- On the last day of sitting I asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General the following questions : - </para>
<para>1. Is the work of constructing conduits in Flinders and Franklin streets, Adelaide, being done departmentally and by day labour, or is the work being done by contract? </para>
<para>2. If by contract, when were tenders called? </para>
<para>3. What is the contract price per chain? </para>
<para>Can he now supply me with the information asked for ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The information is as follows : - </para>
<para>1. By contract. </para>
<para>2. Tenders were advertised on 13th December last. </para>
<para>3. £8 5s. for 4 and 6 ducts; £13 4s. for 8 ducts. </para>
<para class="block">KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY. </para>
<para class="block">Contract for Earthworks : Strike of Employes. </para>
<para class="block">
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator PEARCE</inline>asked the Minister representing the Minister of Home Affairs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>1. Has a contract been let for portion of the clearing and earthworks of the Kalgoorlie end of the Trans- Australian Railway line? </para>
<para>2. To whom was the contract let, and what are its terms ? </para>
<para>3. Were tenders called for such contract, and in what newspapers, and for what length of time? </para>
<para>4. Will the Minister lay a copy of the contract on thetable of the Senate? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>1. Not as usually known as a contract. In July,1913, I approved a recommendation of the Engineer-in-Chief that he should have authority to let piece-work where it was considered that the work could be carried out to better advantage and more economically by doing so;also of the rates being authorized by the Engineer-in-Chief. The EngineerinChief fixed a scale of rates, and several small portions of piece-work were let by the acting Supervising Engineer, Kalgoorlie. </para>
<para>2. Several small sections were let by the acting Supervising Engineer to Messrs. William Morris, J. Lysacht, J. Sheridan, J. O'Connell, P. Paney, J. Richardson, and J. Alexander. <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. William</inline> Morris is the only person engaged in connexion with clearing, and the earthworks being done by himare from 71 miles 52 chains to 71 miles 63 chains, and from 72 miles66 chains onwards; and the work terminates in the event of contracts being arranged for the construction of the whole line, or in the event of Morris' work being overtaken by the platelaying gang, or in the event of any other cause deemed by the acting Supervising Engineer sufficient to terminate it. The rates paid are - Clearing, £25 per mile; centre cutting,1s. fid. per cubic yard; side cutting,1s. per cubic yard; surface formation, 30s. per chain. </para>
<para>3. The Engineer-in-Chief reports that the piece-work was let only after quotations had been obtained. I am ascertaining whether they were also invited by public advertisement. </para>
<para>4. In cases of this kind it is not usual to have a formal document of contract; but I will lay on the table a copy of a letter written to <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. William</inline> Morris regarding prices and terms of the work. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator PEARCE</inline>(for <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Needham)</inline> asked the Vice-President of the Executive Council, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>1. What is the present position in connexion with tbe industrial dispute at the Kalgoorlie end of the Trans-Australian Railway? </para>
<para>2. Is he aware that the Right Honorable <inline font-weight="bold">Sir John</inline> Forrest, when receiving a deputation from the men engaged on the construction of the line, early this year, stated that the Government should be model employers? </para>
<para>3. Does he think that the offer of the Government to pay 12s. 6d. minimum as against 13s. 4d., which the men are asking for, and which is being paid by a private contractor, shows that the Federal Government, in this instance, is a model employer? </para>
<para>4. Is the Government willing to meet representatives of the men with a view to bringing about a settlement of the present dispute? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>1. The men have refused the offer by the Government of increased pay, and have not resumed work. </para>
<para>2. Yes. In this connexion it may be remarked that <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Watts,</inline> secretary General Workers Union, Western Australia, is reported in the Age of the 5th inst. to have admitted that no higher pay than 12s. Cd. per diem is offered by any Government in Australia. </para>
<para>3. The circumstances surrounding the employment are not similar. </para>
<para>4. The Supervising Engineer has already been interviewed by representatives of the men; but his suggestion that the men should take a secret ballot on the Government's offer has not been acted upon. </para>
<para>WIRELESS INSTALLATION. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator KEATING</inline>asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>1. What steps (if any) are being taken by the Government to provide wireless telegraphic communication with King Island? </para>
<para>2. The present state of progress in the matter? </para>
<para>3. Whether the existing installation on the island erected by Rev. Father Shaw can or will be used by the Department? </para>
<para>4. If not, will the Government expedite the provision of such means of communication <inline font-style="italic">in</inline> the interests of residents of the island and of other parts of the Commonwealth, as well as in the interests of shipping? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>1. Several offers have been made to the residents, and the Department is still in communication with tbe persons concerned in the matter. </para>
<para>2. The Postmaster-General has approved of an offer being made to those interested for the Department to install and work the apparatus on condition that those interested provide a building, and guarantee a certain amount of revenue. </para>
<para>3. No. </para>
<para>4. See answers to Nos. 1 and 2. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator KEATING.-</inline>Arising out of that answer, I desire to ask the VicePresident of the Executive Council if either he or his colleague is aware that there are gentlemen well qualified to utilize the installation which has already been established there by Father Shaw, and whether the Government will allow them to use that installation in order that communication between King Island and Tasmania may be maintained ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator LONG.</inline>- Arising out of the answer given by the Vice-President of the Executive Council- </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen.</inline>- Is this in order ? </para>
<para>The PRESIDENT. - Questions arising out of an answer to a previous question can be asked only for the purpose of elucidating that answer or obtaining fuller or more definite information regarding the matter. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Long</inline> had not proceeded far enough when he was interrupted to enable me to decide whether he was out of order or not. If he merely wishes to ask a question to elucidate the answer given by the Minister or to obtain more detailed information, he will be in order, but not otherwise. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator LONG.</inline>- I wish to ask the Vice-President of the Executive Council whether it is a fact that the price which was formerly asked for this plant on.King Island, and which the Government regarded as excessive, has now been reduced to an absolute minimum, namely, from £2,700 to £1,250, and whether the wireless installation has been placed under offer to the Government at the latter price ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen.</inline>- Does this question arise out of the answer previously given by my colleague? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator LONG.</inline>- Yes, because the question which was pub to the VicePresident of the Executive Council was whether the installation established by Father Shaw on King Island is to be used by the Department. What I wish to know is whether the Government have finally decided not to utilize that plant. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- I am unable to answer the further questions put to me by Senators Keating and Long, but I will make inquiries with a view to furnishing the desired information. </para>
<para>MR. HENRY DEANE: PAPER. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator HENDERSON</inline>(for <inline font-weight="bold">Senator de</inline> Largie) asked the Minister representing the Minister of Home Affairs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>Did <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Henry</inline> Deane voluntarily resign from the office of Consulting Engineer- inChief, or did he resign as a result of representations made by the Government? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.-</inline>I lay on the table a copy of a communication, in which <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Deane</inline> asked to be relieved of his duties as Engineer-in-Chief for Railways, which will, I think, furnish the information desired by the honorable senator. </para>
<para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Buzacott)</inline> agreed to- </para>
<para>That there be laid upon the table of the Senate all papers in connexion with the resignation of <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Deane</inline> as Engineer-in-Chief of Commonwealth Railways and the appointment of his successor <inline font-weight="bold">(Mr. Bell).</inline></para>
<para>ELECTORAL WORK: QUEENSLAND. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MULLAN</inline>(for <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Maughan)</inline> asked the Minister representing the Minister of Home Affairs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>1. Is the Minister aware {Eat Queensland State school teachers and other public officers have not yet received payment for services rendered in connexion with electoral work up to 31st December, 1913? </para>
<para>2. Will the Minister be good enough to say whether the fault lies with the Commonwealth Treasury or with State Departments in Queensland ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>Payments to State officials acting as Electoral Registrars arc made through the State Government. The account in question was received on 4th February, and, after certain queries had been investigated, was forwarded for payment on 25th March. It is understood that the officers concerned were all paid by the State Government early in April. </para>
<para>I am taking steps to expedite such payments in future. </para>
<para class="block">A reprimand has been administered in connexion with this matter. Some accounts were not correct, and, as a result, payment for other accounts which were correct was withheld until all were in order. Those responsible have been informed that in future accounts which are correct are to be paid at once. </para>
<para>PUBLIC SERVICE. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator BARKER</inline>asked the Minister representing the Minister of Home Affairs, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>1. What was the number of persons in the employ of the Federal service on the 30th March, 1914? </para>
<para>2. What was the number under the control of the Public Service Commissioner? </para>
<para>3. What was the number of persons casually employed at same date? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator McCOLL.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>The information asked for is not, at present, available, so far as regards the date mentioned (30th March,1914), and can only be furnished at the cost of considerable labour and delay, and, as to persons not under the Public Service Commissioner, by reference to the Departments concerned. </para>
<para>For such a date as that mentioned, the return cannot be prepared without serious interference with the work of the Public Service Commissioner's office, and by requiring officers to work after the ordinary hours at a time when every effort is required to cope with the requirements of public business. It cannot be estimated what the cost of the return would bc, as in practically every Department special officers will have to be set aside to collect the required particulars, involving expenditure either in payments for overtime or in the engaging of extra assistance. </para>
<para>It is the practice to collate information from which returns may be supplied for specific dates in each year considered most suitable for the purpose, and records from which information may be furnished similar to that desired were made for 30th June, 1913. From these records the following information can be supplied: - </para>
<para class="block">
<graphic href="073332191405071_8_0.jpg" />
</para>
<para class="block">AUSTRALIAN COAL TESTS. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MULLAN</inline>(for <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Maughan)</inline> asked the Minister of Defence, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice -</inline></para>
<para>In connexion with the statement made by the Honorable the Minister for Defence in regard to the testing of coal from all Australian coal mines, to be used for Naval purposes, will the Minister say when the report of such tests can be made available ? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- The answer is - </para>
<para>Arrangements are being made for a comprehensive test of Australian coals; but no date can yet be named on which reports will be available. </para>
<para class="block">SMALL ARMS FACTORY. </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator RAE</inline>asked the Minister of Defence, <inline font-style="italic">upon notice-</inline></para>
<para>1. What is the total cost of the Lithgow Small Arms Factory to date? </para>
<para>2. Will he show the cost separately in respect to - </para>
<para>(a) Land; </para>
<para>(b) Buildings; </para>
<para>(c) Machinery and plant; </para>
<para>(d) Material; </para>
<para>(e) Salaries and cost of supervision, including professional and legal charges ; </para>
<para>(f) Wages; </para>
<para>(g) Other expenditure, if any, not included in the foregoing ? </para>
<para>3. How many completed rifles have been made and issued for service? </para>
<para>4. When will the estimated annual output be reached ? </para>
<para>5. What are the estimated present and future annual requirements of the Defence Forces? </para>
<para>6. Is it intended to establish additional factories to meet tbe requirements, and, if so, how many? </para>
<para>
<inline font-weight="bold">Senator MILLEN.</inline>- The answers are - </para>
<para>1. £297.000. </para>
<para>2. (a) £2,900. </para>
<para>(b) £63,300. </para>
<para>(c) £90,000. </para>
<para>(d) £49,800. </para>
<para>(e) £7,800. </para>
<para>(f) £68,000. </para>
<para>(g) £9,200. </para>
<business.start>
<day.start>1914-05-07</day.start>
<para>4. It is anticipated that by September, 1914, the normal output will be reached, provided no unforeseen difficulties arise. </para>
<para>5. Fifteen thousand annually during the next four or five years. </para>
<para>6. It is considered the existing factory will be capable of supplying all requirements for some years to come. </para>
</business.start>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>673</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>SEIZURE OF BUTTER</title>
<page.no>673</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>673</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KQ4</name.id>
<electorate>VICTORIA</electorate>
<party>LP</party>
<role>Vice-President of the Executive Council</role>
<in.gov>1</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCCOLL, James</name>
<name role="display">Senator McCOLL</name>
</talker>
<para>- Some time ago <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Ready</inline> desired that some papers relating to the seizure of thirty cases of butter from the Launceston and NorthEastern Co-operative Dairy Company, Launceston, be laid on the table of the Senate. The papers have been laid on the table of the Library, and I ask the honorable senator to read them there. </para>
</talk.start>
</speech>
</subdebate.1>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>CONSTRUCTION PLANT</title>
<page.no>674</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Long)</inline> agreed to - </para>
<quote>
<para>That there be laid upon the table of the Senate a return showing - </para>
<list type="decimal-dotted">
<item label="1.">
<para>The value of all plant acquired by the Commonwealth while works were being carried out on the day-labour principle. </para>
</item>
<item label="2.">
<para>The value of all plant owned by the Commonwealth in the construction of the Trans-Australian Railway. </para>
</item>
<item label="3.">
<para>The value of plant not in use since the abolition of the day-labour principle by the present Government. </para>
</item>
</list>
</quote>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>BRITISH NAVY IN PACIFIC</title>
<page.no>674</page.no>
<type>miscellaneous</type>
</debateinfo>
<para>Motion (by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Mullan</inline> for <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Maughan)</inline> agreed to - </para>
<quote>
<para>That there be laid upon the table of the Senate a return showing the full strength (with details as to armaments) of the British Naval complement (exclusive of Australian and New Zealand warships) now in commission in the Pacific. </para>
</quote>
</debate>
<debate>
<debateinfo>
<title>QUESTION</title>
<page.no>674</page.no>
<type>Questions</type>
</debateinfo>
<subdebate.1>
<subdebateinfo>
<title>GOVERNOR-GENERAL'S SPEECH : ADDRESS-IN-REPLY</title>
<page.no>674</page.no>
</subdebateinfo>
<para>Debate resumed from 15th April(vide page 25), on motion by <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Oakes</inline> - </para>
<quote>
<para>That the following Address-in-Reply be agreed to : - </para>
<para>To His Excellency the Governor-General. </para>
<para>May it Please Your Excellency - </para>
<para>We, the Senate of the Commonwealth of Australia, in Parliament assembled, desire to express our loyalty to our Most Gracious Sovereign, and to thank Your Excellency for the Speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament. </para>
</quote>
<speech>
<talk.start>
<talker>
<page.no>674</page.no>
<time.stamp />
<name.id>KTF</name.id>
<electorate>South Australia</electorate>
<party />
<role />
<in.gov>0</in.gov>
<first.speech>0</first.speech>
<name role="metadata">MCGREGOR, Gregor</name>
<name role="display">Senator McGREGOR</name>
</talker>
<para>. - Such a long time has elapsed since we listened to the fervid eloquence of <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Oakes,</inline> and the cautious and sage-like utterances of <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Keating,</inline> that an individual like myself might be easily excused if the ring of their words had almost disappeared from his mind. Yet so fervid were some of the statements that I still hear them ringing in my ears. In paragraphs 1 and 2 of the opening speech the Governor-General is practically taking farewell of the Parliament of the Commonwealth, and is about to depart from our midst, and the reasons given for his departure are those of ill-health and other private matters. I do not think we have any right to pry into the private matters that may have influenced His Excellency to, at such a period as this, go away from Australia to quieter regions than he might consider those of the Commonwealth at the present time. I am sure that every member of the Opposition is sincere in his regret that the climate or conditions of Australia should in any way impair the health of a gentleman whose stay here has been so agreeable to all the citizens of the Commonwealth. I am going to take what may be regarded as a rather irregular course. The custom is to deal with the opening speech paragraph by paragraph. But for reasons of my own, and perhaps also for the convenience of the other members of the Senate items 3 and 4 dealing with the test Bills that the Government are apparently making an attempt to force through both Houses of the Legislature may be left to a later stage of my remarks in connexion with this extraordinary Speech. Paragraph 5 contains a rather surprising statement from the GovernorGeneral as the mouth-piece of the Government to the effect that the report of the Premiers' Conference will be laid before us. I suppose we are expected to infer that the Senate will receive from this document sufficient information to justify the meagreness of the policy which His Excellency's Advisers have so far laid before us. During the election campaign, and subsequently through the press and in other ways, the Government have continually assured us that they were going to bring forward a very substantial policy when they had the opportunity. Yet here we have them bringing before us - what? The report of the Premiers' Conference ! Where is that report? I have not yet received a copy of it, and cannot tell what it will contain. Seeing that the Government have proclaimed its existence by means of the Speech, and that the Senate has had an adjournment of considerable length, every honorable senator ought to have had a copy of it long ago. Even if we had it, what has it to do with the policy of the Government of the Commonwealth ofAustralia ? Have we reached a stage at which the Federal Government must go to an outside body for a policy to bring before Parliament - and not a constitutional body either? I have made similar statements to this on previous occasions, and have been criticised for making them, but though I have the greatest respect for every Premier and Government of the Australian States personally, I do not see where they come in, so far as the policy of the Federal Government is concerned. Yet paragraphs 5 to 11 of the Speech seem to refer to nothing but the Premiers' Conference. We have had Premiers' Conferences before, and we have had other Governments. We have had Prime Ministers actually sitting on the doorstep of the Premiers' Conference waiting for a courteous hearing, but we have never been told before that we are to take our policy from any Premiers' Conference that may sit in Australia. Paragraph 6 makes another extraordinary statement to .the effect that the Government have some idea of a policy with regard to the taking over of the State debts, and that the Prime Minister and Treasurer have conferred with the Premiers of the States on the matter. I can imagine the Treasurer and Prime Minister doing a thing of that description. The right honorable member for Swan years ago made the statement that he had often been compelled to eat dirt, an,d I imagine from this paragraph in the Speech that the right honorable gentleman, in company with the Prime Minister, is still prepared to eat dirt if necessary to retain office. </para>
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<para>- He prefers to eat trust funds. </para>
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<para>- I believe the members of the present Administration have been indifferent to almost everything. I can imagine the right honorable member grovelling before such an august body as the Premiers of Australia and other State Ministers when going before them with a statement, that he had prepared. I have had his statement carefully read to me, and expected to find something in it, but there was nothing in it. It practically says, "Here is what I have done. If it does not satisfy you, for the love of heaven tell me what will !" I can imagine the smile of derision on the faces of the Premiers when they saw the Federal Treasurer in such an abject position. </para>
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<para>- I understand that he apologized for the first speech, and went back and delivered a second. </para>
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<para>- Yes. He was prepared not only to apologize for his first statement, but to adopt any suggestion that the State Premiers or Treasurers might make, and then go back and prepare another statement himself. In fact the right honorable gentleman was prepared to do anything. It is degrading o not only to the Commonwealth Parliament, but to the people of Australia that their Ministerial representatives should be brought down to the position of having to kneel to the Premiers, Treasurers, and other Ministers of the States in connexion with the policy that they propose to introduce. The Commonwealth has not only been authorized, but has almost been directed by the Constitution to take over the State debts. It has also the alternative of taking over an equivalent or proportionate amount from each State, and we know that the Constitution has actually been amended to enable the Government to take over all the indebtedness of the States to date. Seeing that the Government have actually received that authority from the people direct it is their duty to take the debts over, no matter what the opinions of any State Government may be, although of course it will be all the better if it can be done with the full consent of the States themselves. </para>
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<para>- What has the honorable senator been talking about for the last half hour ? </para>
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<para>- I have been talking about the manner in which the Premiers of the States had been ap- 'proached by the honorable senator's colleagues. They did not go to the Conference as men who were taking the responsibilities of government on their own shoulders. They rather went as men pleading to the State Ministers to give them some assistance or ideas that they did not possess themselves. Even though they went to the Premiers' Conference and discussed matters with State Ministers, they have not finished anything. There is no finality about the business. We are in exactly the same position as we have been in since the Act amending the Constitution in respect of the State debts was passed. </para>
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<para>- They are going to have another meeting by-and-by to fix things up. </para>
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<para>- They are going to meet the Treasurers to fix things up because they are so incapable themselves. Then I suppose they will meet the AttorneysGeneral, and when they have met them- </para>
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<para>- They will meet their wives. </para>
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<para>- Very probably, and will get as much wisdom perhaps from them. It is the duty of the Commonwealth to take over the State debts, and the Commonwealth Government should go about it in their own way. If there was any obligation on me to assist the Government to carry out this obvious duty I would give them my advice, but as they apparently prefer the opinions of the State Premiers and Treasurers to those of members of this Parliament, I will leave them "in their own soup," to quote the elegant expression already used by some of them. * Nothing has really been done, nor is anything going to be done, concerning the State debts until a fresh Government comes into office, because it is notorious that this is a Government of no results. They have done nothing up to the present, and are not likely to do anything in the future. I make bold to say that the great majority of the electors of Australia hope they will go out of office without doing anything. They say they have not had time, or if they had time they say, "It is not opportune," and so they keep deluding the people. </para>
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<para>- As in the case of the cost of living. </para>
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<para>- They do not trouble about that question. </para>
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<para>- They made enough noise about it at the last elections. </para>
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<para>- The people listened to them, and believed them on that occasion, but the longer they stay in office the less trust the people have in their promises. The right honorable the Treasurer and his colleagues also had a long consultation with the Premiers' Conference on the subject of banking. If any member of the Senate, of the Government, or of the Premiers' Conference looks carefully at paragraph xiii., of section 51 of the Constitution, he will find that under it the Commonwealth was to take over banking. The paragraph does not say general banking, or savings banking, but it covers - </para>
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<quote>
<para>Banking, other than State banking; also State banking extending beyond the limits of the State concerned, the incorporation of banks, and the issue of paper money. </para>
</quote>
<para class="block">It will be seen that State banking is exempt. There is a peculiar feature connected with State banking. I can remember that, when in the Federal Com.vention the question of banking wasraised, the only State in the Commonwealth that had a State bank was South Australia. That State then had a small State bank which was crippled, restricted, and confined as much as possible by the Conservative element in the South Australian Parliament of that time. It was a mere semblance of a State bank, and could only lend money to the producers of South Australia in certain proportions and under certain conditions. I admit that since then it has been liberalized ' to some extent, but even now it is so restricted that it is not of as much value to the people of the State as it was intended to be by those who were responsible for its establishment and who supported it. It only issues debentures and lends out the money so received at a little higher interest, than is paid for it. It was for the protection of that little State bank of South Australia that the words to which I have referred were inserted in paragraph xiii., of section 51 of the Constitution, and an exemption was made of State banking other than that extending beyond the limits of one State. But there is nothing in the paragraph restrictingthe operations of the Commonwealth in connexion with banking, savings, banks, or anything of the kind. If thepeople of Australia at the inauguration of Federation meant that the Commonwealth should take over and control banking, are we now to suppose that they meant only general or commercial banking, and that the Commonwealth was not to have anything to do with the savings of the people? Is that the opinion of the people now ? I do not believe it is. At the inauguration of Federation all the Savings Banks in the different States were not Government Savings Banks. Any one who knows the history of savings banking in Australia must know that it was only after the Commonwealth began to move in this direction that the Savings Bank in South Australia got the security of the Government of the State behind it. The same may be said of Tasmania, and we know that in New South Wales there were two savings bank institutions in operation there. It was only within the last few weeks that they were amalgamated into, one institution, and were guaranteed the security of the State. In the case of all the institutions in the different States there was competition, irregularity, and lack of a State guarantee. It was because the framers of the Constitution were aware of this that they inserted paragraph xiii. in section 51 of the Constitution. They were of opinion that it was better, in the interests of Australia, that the Commonwealth should control and direct the Savings Banks throughout Australia. When the Commonwealth Bank was established, we know the opposition that was displayed, not only to the general banking, but to the savings banking, and everything else in connexion with it. We know the names and reputation of those who were opposed to it. We know that those same gentlemen are to-day members of the present Government, or supporting that Government, and that they never had any sympathy with the general or savings bank branch of the Commonwealth Bank. One reason why the Commonwealth can more effectively control and manage the savings of the people is that we have taken over, in the Post and Telegraph Department, an institution which can materially assist in the conduct of this business. The Savings Banks in the different States were connected with the Postal Departments of those States, and when those Departments were taken over by the Commonwealth, it should naturally have followed, as the most economical and best thing to do. that, the Savings Bank branches should have been taken over at the same time. General banking and savings banking by the Commonwealth Bank had many opponents amongst the supporters of the Government, who did all they possibly could to defeat it. Not being able to do so in this Parliament, they went outside and influenced their friends in the State Parliaments to do as they did. That is why the Treasurer, the Prime Minister, and the Premiers of the different States, with their henchmen, are prepared now to do what should have been done long ago. If they had any sympathy with the best interests of the people, and loyalty to the Constitution, they would long ago have seen that the State Governments did their business through the general branch of the Commonwealth Bank. They have shown their opposition to the establishment of that institution by refraining from doing so. </para>
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<para>- Excepting Tasmania, where a Labour Government do their banking with the Commonwealth Bank. </para>
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<para>- There are Departments in some of the other States that are doing the same thing, but, as a general rule, and in some of the States particularly, they have shown direct hostility to the Commonwealth Bank. They now come along, however, and say, ' ' <inline font-weight="bold">Mr. Treasurer,</inline> we object, and always have objected previously, to the Commonwealth Bank having anything to do with the savings of the people. If you will give up the Savings Bank business, we are prepared now to do what we should have done long ago, and will deposit our surplus cash in your bank, and make a great- institution of it." </para>
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<page.no>677</page.no>
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<para>- Whilst the party opposite were attacking the State Governments in connexion with the Savings Bank business, they expected those Governments to assist them in connexion with the general banking branch of the Commonwealth Bank. </para>
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<para>- We were not attacking them, but were carrying out the duty we were directed to discharge by the people of Australia. </para>
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<para>- It was a direct attack upon the States' Saving Banks. </para>
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<para>- I have already stated that when the Commonwealth Bank was established, and the Commonwealth Savings Bank branch agreed upon, a number of the Savings Banks in the different States were not State institutions at all. <inline font-weight="bold">Senator Millen</inline> knows that. I have given instances of it. It was only when the Commonwealth Government did their duty that those opposed to the Commonwealth taking over banking of any kind roused themselves. What did they do? In Victoria the State Government increased the interest paid by the State Savings Bank, and increased the salaries of the officers. Those officers and th© general public of the State have to thank the last Commonwealth Government, and not the State Government of Victoria, for anything they have gained in that "way. </para>
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<page.no>677</page.no>
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<para>-Colonel O'loghlin. - The State Government liberalized the institution in South Australia also. </para>
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<para>- Of course they did, and they gave the Savings Bank there the guarantee of the State which it never had before. Previously that institution was an outside affair, and all the control the Government had in connexion with it was the appointment of a certain number of its directors. The people of South Australia had no Government guarantee for their deposits in that bank. The late Commonwealth Government did everything they possibly could to give the States a fair deal in this matter. At the very inauguration of the Commonwealth Bank the State Governments were offered, if they were prepared to come in and assist the Commonwealth and do their duty under the Constitution, the use of all the money they already had control of. They were offered 75 per cent, of all new business in each State, and were offered an equal call with the Commonwealth institution of the remaining 25 per cent. I have already mentioned that the Commonwealth Government, in taking over the Post and Telegraph Department of the different States, had the best facilities for _ the carrying on of the Savings Bank business which had previously been conducted in the post offices of the different States. </para>
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<para>- If the Commonwealth Government could have taken over the Savings Bank business with the postoffices, why did they not do it? </para>
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<para>- They did what the Constitution permitted them to do. They established a Savings Bank in connexion with the Commonwealth, but the Constitution did not give them the power to compel the State Governments to fall in with their proposal. </para>
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<para>- And the competition of the Commonwealth Bank was not good enough to get the money. </para>
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<para>- Who is it that is keeping up the competition ? It is the Governments of the States, although they know that the work can be carried out more economically by the Commonwealth than by any of the States. </para>
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<para>- They admitted that at the conference. </para>
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<para>- They could not help but admit it. Here we have six different institutions in the various States, with six boards of management. Those six institutions could be carried on with one head office in the Commonwealth. We have six boards of management spending money in erecting buildings and in other ways to carry on a business which could be more economically carried on by the one institution established by the Commonwealth. Every honorable senator knows that, and the Premiers themselves know it, but their jealousy of the greater powers of the Federation and their alliance with those who have been opposed to the conduct by the Commonwealth of both general and savings bank business makes it impossible for them to .see any good in the Commonwealth Bank. In summing up I say that it was the duty of the States to assist the Commonwealth by transacting all their business through the Commonwealth Bank, and it was in the interests of the people of the different States that they should have handed over to the Commonwealth - under conditions that we set down - the Savings Bank branches. Had they done that a saving would have been effected to the people, there would have been greater prosperity in Australia, and the Commonwealth Bank would have been a greater success than we can ever hope it will be under existing conditions. I am looking eagerly forward to the time when the people will wake up and realize what is best in their own interests - the time when they will condemn these State jealousies rather than commend them. </para>
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<para>Here we have another instance of the Government going to the Premiers' Conference </para>
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<name role="metadata">OAKES, Charles</name>
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<para>- It was nearly as bad as the Hobart Labour Conference. </para>
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<para>- But there were intelligent men at the Hobart Labour Conference. They drafted a policy for Australia that is a national policy, not one of a parochial colour. </para>
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<name role="metadata">MILLEN, Edward</name>
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<para>- Had they any authority to draft that policy ? </para>
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<para>- They had every authority inasmuch as they had the people behind them. But the Treasurer and the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth attended the Premiers' Conference and said, "Well, gentlemen, we are in a quandary. We do not know what to do. There are several engineers and railway managers in Australia wrangling about what the uniform gauge ought to be. We have not the ability to decide the question, and we have not the courage to ratify what has already been done. What shall we do, what shall we do?" Do not honorable senators recollect that some years ago the battle of the gauges was fought in this Parliament? </para>
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<para>- We did not deal with the most difficult aspect of it, namely, the financial aspect. </para>
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